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World of Warships

Parth said:
And at this point everyone should be aware that someone saying don't try this at home is literally just a legal statement to prevent someone from being blamed for something.

The bottom line is that every time Flambass rushes mid and gets a 100K damage in a game he's encouraging others to try it. Not matter how many times anyone tells them to not do this it's never going to work.

WOWS is a competitive game, and it's annoying when you lose a match because someone on your team tries to imitate a pro player performing a dumb strategy.

That is in fact toxic behavior because the entire team suffers because of it.
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What's wrong with people choosing to have fun in a video game? And of course Flambass would do ridiculous stuff: he's a streamer and is there to entertain his viewers. Much like watching a Hearts of Iron 4 streamer conquer the world as Luxembourg. It's not meta, easy, simple, or optimal, but it can be really fun to watch the streamer pull it off or go down in flames.

Seriously, WoWs is NOT a competitive video game, or at least not like many other ones that I am familiar with. Pretty much otherwise what Darth says here:
Darth Crater said:
People have been inting into Two Brothers mid since the map launched. Two Brothers Epicenter became such a big meme that WG thought we actually, unironically wanted it. Streamers have never been the reason for people trying it. It's not like it's the only bad route in the game, either - things like the 10 line push on North can hurt the team just as much.

From what I remember, Flambass is indeed pretty toxic, but that's an entirely separate matter.

Also, like it or not, random battles aren't actually the competitive mode. Some of your teammates will be trying to win, some of them will be messing around, some will just be so bad they don't know the difference. It's always frustrating to lose that way when you did your best, for sure. But that's just how it works in a team game with this many players, without skill-based MM. (And sadly, skill-based MM would actually be less fun - I've seen 12v12's full of competitive players, and they were painfully slow and boring.)
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Aires Drake said:
What's wrong with people choosing to have fun in a video game? And of course Flambass would do ridiculous stuff: he's a streamer and is there to entertain his viewers. Much like watching a Hearts of Iron 4 streamer conquer the world as Luxembourg. It's not meta, easy, simple, or optimal, but it can be really fun to watch the streamer pull it off or go down in flames.

Seriously, WoWs is NOT a competitive video game, or at least not like many other ones that I am familiar with. Pretty much otherwise what Darth says here:
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Some of us enjoy having fun by winning. If people want to do ridiculous stuff they can go into coop.
 
AlphaDelta said:
If you want to do nothing but win, you could play in a 3-stack with purple players. It's relatively easy to have a good div win-rate with good players in good ships.
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You forgot to include synch-drops with three other similarly-stacked divisions. At least one team will be properly stacked while the other will just have to farm as much damage as possible in the time that the match will last.
 
Aires Drake said:
But if they've seen it work as a win to win, then it's not as ridiculous of a tactic to an average viewer, right? They're still trying to win, just like you.

There are many paths to victory that some would consider....unnatural.
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When literally everyone including YouTubers is telling them to not do this because they're not Flambass it's not them trying to win, it's them taking a risky option that they don't have the skills in order to pull off.
 
Tactical prescriptivism is a blight on team games. Let people try things, it is essential both to keep the meta evolving and for them to learn.

If what you want is super Hardcore "only the win matters" games, go into upper Ranked or join a tryhard CB team.
 
Parth said:
When literally everyone including YouTubers is telling them to not do this because they're not Flambass it's not them trying to win, it's them taking a risky option that they don't have the skills in order to pull off.
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Jesus fucking christ, and here I thought that I was a toxic elitist but this takes the cake. If you want to go for optimal strategies, go play clan wars and lead your own team. If not, shut up because now you're just being prescriptive.

And even then, sometimes you get blindsided by tactics that you didn't expect, so it all works out in the end somehow.
 
I mean, if people are doing stupid shit in Random Battles, the only thing I will say is just learn to deal with it and damage farm. You are just as much as part of the equation - worse come to worse, just accept it and move on, and who knows, you might just carry them to victory. Its just one battle in the grand scope of things, after all. Learning how not to be salty over people doing stupid things is something I've been trying to learn, in any case.

In any case I just got Kleber and holy shit do I suck at her lol. I legimitately can't seem to live in this thing. I know how she works, but I swear, I just keep dying or getting chunked in her.
 
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MagicianX26 said:
In any case I just got Kleber and holy shit do I suck at her lol. I legimitately can't seem to live in this thing. I know how she works, but I swear, I just keep dying or getting chunked in her.
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I had a similar problem with Ragnar in the beginning. But in Ragnar you have the advantage of a 25mm side plating, which means most DD's can't pen you. And the radar also works to your advantage because with max concealment build you have a concealment of 7,5km, same as you radar range. And you have this awesome 30% speed boost, which will get you to 50kn for a minute. Downside is of course you have no smoke or torpedoes. And you have to show broadside to your enemies for the side plating to be effective.
 
Xela63 said:
I had a similar problem with Ragnar in the beginning. But in Ragnar you have the advantage of a 25mm side plating, which means most DD's can't pen you. And the radar also works to your advantage because with max concealment build you have a concealment of 7,5km, same as you radar range. And you have this awesome 30% speed boost, which will get you to 50kn for a minute. Downside is of course you have no smoke or torpedoes. And you have to show broadside to your enemies for the side plating to be effective.
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Ragnar is basically a light cruiser masquerading as a destroyer, tbh, and absolutely destroys all other DDs with those 152mms. Honestly, with Smaland gone from shop, she would be an instant buy for me, but for the lack of torpedoes she isn't (because shit like this will happen lol)


Back to Kleber, maybe my problem is because I've only exclusively played hydro DDs like Vampire/Z52 so far, IDK.
 
MagicianX26 said:
Ragnar is basically a light cruiser masquerading as a destroyer, tbh, and absolutely destroys all other DDs with those 152mms. Honestly, with Smaland gone from shop, she would be an instant buy for me, but for the lack of torpedoes she isn't (because shit like this will happen lol)


Back to Kleber, maybe my problem is because I've only exclusively played hydro DDs like Vampire/Z52 so far, IDK.
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Or you get rushed by a GK and have to run for your life. Or a Harugumo actually has IFHE and pens you everywhere. Those are pain moments.
 
So carriers.

Right now I'm doing slightly better in carriers, I had a couple of 100K damage games in the kaga. I'm also starting to understand target selection a bit better as well. The biggest issue I'm finding is flak, is there any good method of not eating a ton of flak on an attack run?
 
Parth said:
So carriers.

Right now I'm doing slightly better in carriers, I had a couple of 100K damage games in the kaga. I'm also starting to understand target selection a bit better as well. The biggest issue I'm finding is flak, is there any good method of not eating a ton of flak on an attack run?
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Attack from an angle instead of a straight line, and turn into the target.
 
In spite of their large area of effect, Airstrike's depth charges sometimes failed to deal damage to submarines even with the correct lead, since there was a large distance between depth charges, and their individual areas of damage were small. In order to guarantee dealing damage to submarines when given the correct lead, while at the same time keeping the effectiveness of the armament at the same level, we increased the area of damage and the maximum damage of these aerial depth charges, but the number of charges per plane and the size of the squadron was reduced. Thus, hitting a submarine will become more difficult, but a successful hit will guarantee high damage.
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Somebody please translate this to me in plain English because this doesn't seem to make any sense.

Submarines are usually quite close to enemy ships, however, their current HP is too low for effective interaction at such distances. In order to increase the submarines' survivability, we increased their HP pool. Respectively, we increased the damage of depth charges from cruisers and destroyers to keep the interaction with submarines at the same level.
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Wasn't it the point that when subs are caught, they die? Like, even more so than a DD usually?

We increased the duration of the twice-pinged sector which will give submarines more time to plan the attack and choose a more comfortable position and moment to launch torpedoes.
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Ok but why do this, can't you just launch torps and then ping already?

Considering the latest changes to the detection mechanics of submarines and a significant limitation of visibility of enemy ships underwater, the Surveillance Radar consumable, taking into account it's high detection range, started to significantly affect the gameplay of submarines during the active phase of their attack, forcing them to change position and submerge to operating and maximum depth, and therefore increasing their depletion of dive capacity. In order to give submarines more opportunities for maneuvering and choosing a comfortable position, as well as reduce the influence of Radar on their gameplay, we removed the detection of submarines by the Surveillance Radar at periscope depth.
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Do I need to say anything about this? We had one sorta counter to subs, which were radars and hydros. No what's left if they can just go to max depth and peace out?

This seemed like pretty shit to me, anyone else thinking this reeks of excuses to make the class more popular artificially, instead of making it actually fun to play against?

Also forgot this gem:
Changed the parameters of Depth Charge Airstrike for all ships:

  • Number of planes in the attack flight reduced from 2 to 1;
  • Number of depth charges per plane reduced by half;
  • Depth charge damage increased twofold;
  • Now the depth charges have a 50% chance of incapacitating the sonar of a submarine for 30 seconds;
  • The depth charge's area of damage to the submarine increased by 25%;
  • The damage in the area of damage will more gradually reduce the further from the explosion the submarine is. The farthest 20% of that area will not deal damage, but can still incapacitate.
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So they cut the depth charges down to 1/4th and only doubled the damage? Jesus, you really want to buff subs hard WG. And the fact that the farthest 20% of that area doesn't deal damage also seems like kind of a nerf to me because it seems unclear if they just reduced the effective damage range to what it was before this.
 
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Parth said:
So carriers.

Right now I'm doing slightly better in carriers, I had a couple of 100K damage games in the kaga. I'm also starting to understand target selection a bit better as well. The biggest issue I'm finding is flak, is there any good method of not eating a ton of flak on an attack run?
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Flak is aimed at a predicted point in front of your current approach vector, with the % hit chance determining how close the flak bursts spawn to that point. Since it's based on a prediction, if you make a gradual S-curve during your approach the majority of flak from the target ship will miss. This is not a guarantee of anything given how RNG-dependent it is, and the more allied ships around the higher the likelihood of one of them getting lucky and catching your squadron.
 
Xela63 said:
So they cut the depth charges down to 1/4th and only doubled the damage? Jesus, you really want to buff subs hard WG. And the fact that the farthest 20% of that area doesn't deal damage also seems like kind of a nerf to me because it seems unclear if they just reduced the effective damage range to what it was before this.
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No, they want airstrikes to be a supporting element and not the main source of damage against subs. And even then, the area of the depth charges have been already pretty large. There's no actual reduction in the effective area of effect in the airstrike now.
 
MagicianX26 said:
No, they want airstrikes to be a supporting element and not the main source of damage against subs. And even then, the area of the depth charges have been already pretty large. There's no actual reduction in the effective area of effect in the airstrike now.
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So if I paid attention to my maths class in school, then cutting the number of depth charges in half and cutting the numbers of planes in half reduces it to 1/4th while doubling the size makes it go to back 1/2. That's still a massive nerf.

My problem is that we virtually have no good long range way to deal with subs, which is complete bonkers. That's toxic because if you're close to them they can just submerge to max depth and peace out. No other class of ships can do that. At least with aircraft carriers, if they are caught in the open they die. You don't even have that with subs and now they remove any way of dealing with them from range. Not eve DD's get the luxury of just submerging to peace ojt and now the subs are becoming tankier than some DD's. It's just so toxic to play against them because it feels like you can't actually do anything reasonable.
 
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