0. Quest Mechanics and Details
0
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                         NOTICES
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Cacophonous Interlude is NOT active
  (the QMPC does NOT hear what you write right now)
Next story update : Sometime in July would be nice
Next vote closing : TBD
Progress toward next update : 3,146 words
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Anything I post that's not in text blocks or in spoilers
may be understood to be said by the QMPC, with the
exception of the Collaboration Post
  (see Collaboration Post for details on itself)
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Players do not need to use code blocks or spoilers
outside of cacophonous interludes

If you use code blocks, please limit yourself to 32 lines
and your lines to 57 characters, so that people on mobile
can read them without scrolling within the code block
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This is not meant to be Plagiarism Quest.

You're not discouraged from using outside reference
material or quoting other sources.  When you do, please
cite your sources in spoilers or a code box.
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 I have added some players who contributed a fair amount
the last two times as thread collaborators who can update
   the collaboration post. If you'd like to update the
collaboration post too, contact me by PM and we'll talk
                        about it.




Check the Collaboration Post and read the latest story post in the Threadmarks to get a rough idea of where things are at.

If you're not already involved in the game, portions of either of these may be difficult to follow. But you can skip to the line that says "B R E A K" in the latest threadmarked story post and skim from there to get an idea of what's going on.

If there's no corresponding Closing The Vote post in the Informational threadmarks for the latest story post in (normal?) Threadmarks, then the game is in a cacophonous interlude and the QMPC will hear what you post, unless you do so with spoilers or code boxes. The NOTICES portion at the top of this post should also tell you if the game is in a cacophonous interlude.

So you can engage with other players, make suggestions, ask questions, and propose plans and you can compose a message to the QMPC all whether or not the game is in a cacophonous interlude. And once it is, you can vote and/or send a message to the QMPC by creating a post in the thread.

If you want to vote, simply do so as you would in other quests on this board. You may look at other players' votes to see how yours should be formatted. And you may check the tally to see that yours are counted as you intend them.

If you want to send a message to the QMPC, though, keep in mind that they are a creature of their time. They may not understand what you mean if you don't take the time to make it clear. This game rewards and demands work from its players. When a player wants to introduce a concept or tool or technology to the QMPC, that player will probably need to expend effort to explain it carefully, and take into consideration the limits of the QMPC's understanding of the world.

I think this is similar enough to Graeber's 'interpretive labor' that we can use the term colloquially to describe what is being asked of players. Put yourself in the mind of the QMPC and ask yourself how such a person can be made to understand what you want to tell them.

The QMPC has different values than we do. They have different assumptions about the world and objects and forces within it. Their goals may not align directly with number-go-up or color-get-big gaming agendas. But they want something, and will listen most attentively to players that tell them how to get more of or closer to what they want.
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                    Collaboration Post!
  1. The Quest Master posts story updates that have 3 parts.
    • Quest Master Player Character responses to player posts made during the last cacophonous interlude
    • An update by the QMPC following a break of varying length but usually some number of years, covering what the character believes is worth mentioning
    • Requests by the QMPC for direction on a number of issues, which the players will provide in the form of votes
  2. Following each story update, players posts are audible to the QMPC until voting is closed.
    This is the cacophonous interlude.
    • Players may convey any information they can represent in text.
    • No images, sounds, or hyperlinks will get through (this is my limitation, not a limitation of the game, so please do not try to transcend it with clever protocol tricks).
    • Players may use spoilers or code blocks to communicate with each other without doing so in ways the QMPC can hear.
  3. When votes are tallied, the QM collects player posts so that it may be known what the QMPC heard.
    • Votes are tallied in the conventional fashion. So only votes in the most recent post by each player are counted. [X] marks what the player is voting. And only identical write-ins accumulate.
    • Some votes are querying the players for their preference, in which case the only suboptimal answer is that which does not accurately reflect the preference of the players who nonetheless chose it (I don't think these kinds of misunderstandings can be helped).
    • Other votes are intended as puzzles where there is a choice the QM believes would best meet what they believe to be the goals of the players.
      • However, in these sorts of votes the QM has in mind a choice that would provide the players with what the QM thinks they most want, but which is not listed in the available votes.
      • In this way, clever write-ins are encouraged.
  4. QM reads player posts, researches their suggestions, checks notes for precedent, determines what the QMPC thinks they already know on the topic, what they're right or wrong about, how likely they are to engage with the topic, how likely the QMPC's followers are to follow-through in the matter, and finally what the result is going to be later on.
  5. QM composes QMPC's responses to player posts made during the cacophonous interlude and updates their notes.
  6. When narrative benefits from uncertainty and chance, QM devises tests for QMPC or other characters and makes those tests using die rolls on a post made just for that purpose.
    • Skill or attribute tests will be made with a largely undocumented homebrew modification of the Burning Wheel system, mangled to suit the format of this game. (The Burning Wheelis a good system and I encourage you to check it out.)
      • Tests may be a contest between two characters or against a static target with tiered results.
      • The rules being used and followed will be described in each post in which tests are made by die rolls.
      • Normal mortals count 7s and better as successes.
      • Heroic characters and characters who are otherwise innately magical count 6s and better as successes.
      • Demigod characters and characters who otherwise possess some spark of divinity count 5s and better as successes.
      • New gods and characters who have otherwise stolen the power of Old Gods count 4s and better as successes.
      • Old Gods count 3s and better as successes.
      • Sorcery and other magic skills lower the threshold of success by 1 to a minimum of 3 only when they are the skill being tested, not when they provide a bonus to other skills. Players may note that Old Gods' threshold of success does not improve when they use magic.
      • Bonus dice provided by Kahl's Warhorses and any incendiary devices more complicated than a burning arrow reroll 9s & 10s and keeps successes. These same bonus dice cancels successes on 1s & 2s, rerolls those, and additional 1s & 2s cancel additional successes. More 1s, 2, 9, or 10s mean more rerolling and more successes or cancelations, but only in the manner of the original die. That is, a 1 or 2 that comes up when a 9 on a bonus die is rerolled don't cancel successes or lead to further rerolling.
    • Research project results are determined by percentile dice with results falling into 5 tiers.
      • Uh oh: something has gone horribly wrong
      • Nuh uh: failure, but the boring kind
      • Huh: partial success
      • Uh huh: full success
      • Whoa: superior special case success
    • When players expect a test to be coming up -- for example if they vote for an invasion or to send a diplomat to manipulate a foreign leader -- they can improve the odds of the test turning out the way they want by providing the QMPC with advice specific to that matter. If the advice is not mistaken or outright bad, there will be at least a chance it will help. That is, decent advice adds dice.
  7. QM composes the QMPC's post-break update, player vote questions, and player vote options.
  8. GOTO 1
The QMPC is intended to be the only character the players will interact with in this game. (It's kind of possible that the players could maneuver the QMPC to surrender control of the Astute Cacophony to another character, but unlikely.)

The QMPC is a small, evil woman who knows magic and has not died, despite looking like she probably should have at some point. She goes by the name Bianca the Undying. Her early life took place in the Paleolithic, in which she has said that she traveled around quite a bit and came to understand the malleable nature of populations of people and animals and even the land itself. At some point she was trapped underground, to her displeasure. She remained trapped for a very long time.

When Bianca got out, she found her way to a community of eight tribes living pastoral and agrarian lifestyles in the local Copper Age. She made these people hers and they relied on her for magically enriching their fields so that they did not need to slash, burn, and move around a bit, unlike their neighbors. Bianca and her followers formalized their relationships into the Eight Ways Pact. Later, another tribe joined Bianca's followers bringing small horses and the Bronze Age and their pact was updated with a ninth directive.

Bianca has an agenda that requires her to have more power than she does right now. She believes that achieving divinity will get her that power.
 
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Actually my suggestion vas not to meet them in open battle but rather do hit and runs as much as pissible before that. I do not think our odds good in an stright away open battle. We want to get their morale low. Some wheter magiced rain could be good too
 
Then again, hit & run tactics could be seen as dishonorable.

I am more interested on getting people think twice on attacking our people while loosing as little men as possible than a great honorable head on battle with the odds saying we will loose, or at least not win.

I do not see that honor have been an issue before, as we burnt the forest people to prevent losses instead of an "honorable" all out invasion.

If our people want an honorable all out battle, I would do that only after first softening our opponent.

I am gonna write a proper post about my suggestions here probably tomorrow, vote as you see fit, but I urge against head on battle

I am not really interested in honor against an opponent first killing our trader and then launching an robbing party. However stupidly said trader may have acted. And I not see need of consider honor in punishing said warlord
 
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[X] [Defiance] Demonic Spoon

The greatest killers of the wars of Bronze and Iron is not bow nor spear nor sword nor axe, but famine and pestilence. In the path of the enemy army poison all the non-flowing water sources, like ponds, lakes and wells and even slow-flowing rivers, that they are likely to reach by throwing rotting corpses of animals or people into them.

If feasible, dam smaller streams to also deny them to the enemy, perhaps using spirits of earth to shift the soil into earthen berms. I have no idea if this is feasible.

Burn away all the plants of the earth and remove, burn or poison any food they may be able to reach, have horse-riding raiders go around them and attack behind any supply trains that may try to give them food and water.

Without being able to forage, and with water sources being poisoned, they shall already be dying by the time they reach your armies.

Leave more rotting corpses and feces in the path of their advance, and if possible taint their carried food and water secretly with spoiled food, rotten meat and feces.
 
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Cities are far away. Conquer a city and try to rule from said city, and any control over current Nine Nations land, all of our improvements, slowly starting ironmaking included, would collapse (into the most dangerous barbarian tribes ever). Far away, no road links nor possibility to build these in any sensible time, tons of tribes in between.
No it wouldn't. Bianca has been making roads, which improves travel times, and thus increases the size of the region she can effectively rule, she's due for an expansion. They also won't suddenly collapse into barbarism the moment Bianca moves her capital.

Roads linking current territory and a future capital should obviously be built, and the intervening tribes conquered. However these cities are clearly not as distant as you wish since they are apparently perfectly capable of attempting to invade the Nine Nations.

Do you seriously think that, say, you can have tribes in one land, conquer a city literally half of continent away, and then rule your old homeland from such enormously distant capital city with literally no road and hostile tribes in between?
The cities are clearly not "half a continent away" oh Black Cat or it would be impossible for them to attempt to invade us, especially without a widespread system of roads.

I could travel among the people around the lands of the Nine Nations
The cities are around the Nine Nations.

And... Demon... I had many dreams/memories/something about a weird world where World Health Organization, very reputable and scientific one, declared 32 feet as safe distance between outhouses and wells. Adjust that to 40 if you want to be safer, but one hundred? What? This is crazy. Besides.

This disinformation feels to me almost like sabotage. Issue not needed law about 100 feet distance, and you discourage people from outhouses use and end with open defecation problem existing forever and THIS would be health issue.
100 feet is a conservative estimation, especially if the pit latrines breach the groundwater, as is the case in the Nine Nations, which can contaminate wells and even rivers far in excess of 100 feet away. Exact safe distances have a large variance depending on soil composition and depth of the groundwater, thus making 100 feet a good rule of thumb.

By my judgement poisoning water sources is larger health hazard than open defecation.
Why exactly bathhouses would waste resources? We need people healthy.
The required resources and manpower outweigh their usefulness at this time. We haven't advanced agriculture enough for the sort of freed up labour to be around to make this feasible. As is seen by the current perhaps semi-annual festival usage of the baths, which is quite useless in keeping people healthy.
 
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Daemon, we should have our own city or cities, I support that. But we need to persuade Bianca that this is at all desirable. Do you remember her recent answer to my question as to how cities known to her are ruled? Very sceptical one. Obviously benefits of a well-governed city can be much bigger than discord, like it was the case with writing, but we need good arguments as to why exactly.

Anyway, for now we are at war, and she wanted us to talk about war.
 
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Daemon, we should have our own city or cities, I support that. But we need to persuade Bianca that this is at all desirable. Do you remember her recent answer to my question as to how cities known to her are ruled? Very sceptical one. Obviously benefits of a well-governed city can be much bigger than discord, like it was the case with writing, but we need good arguments as to why exactly.

Anyway, for now we are at war, and she wanted us to talk about war.

Towns will eventually grow into cities. We'll get to that sooner or later.
 
I do not support demons suggestion as that extreme options will spoil the (our) lands for long and might get us a new restless soirit problem
 
Daemon, we should have our own city or cities, I support that. But we need to persuade Bianca that this is at all desirable. Do you remember her recent answer to my question as to how cities known to her are ruled? Very sceptical one. Obviously benefits of a well-governed city can be much bigger than discord, like it was the case with writing, but we need good arguments as to why exactly.

Anyway, for now we are at war, and she wanted us to talk about war.
If she disapproves of how the cities around her are run, then she should rule them as she thinks is proper. Bianca is clearly an experienced governor.
 
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I am surprised there is no discord for meager discussion, but I, the voice spoken of as 'Meridian', feel that it may be interesting to invite the king to take tribute from the nine nations, pick as much as his army can carry from the hoard. Maybe parley with him first.

The plan I think of either was is one of brutally slaughtering the king, possibly taking one of his trusted men as prisoner to torture information out of, and soon enough Bianca will travel to Wrul herself and proceed to slaughter the king's family near and distant, those who may be noble, and so on until the city bows to pay the goddess tribute, or will be crippled for when we siege them in due time.
I do not think Bianca should move her capital to Wrul or any other city, as they are quite the journey away. Past that I doubt she'd want to.

I do think we should consider our spirits of cold. They are family are they not?
As spirits they hold unique abilities, and that can assist us in battle. Making the enemy cold within their armor so that it breaks more easily or such, and give any of our overheating warriors relief.

In a similar vein do you think we could coax the army to move through the cursed woods? Redirection might be a pain, but if we could get a neighboring tribe to try and "ally" themselves with our enemy by giving advice of where our border is weakest (and "a quick route to the (words that imply Bianca is mortal, taking her reputations to turn it against her and make her look vulnerable)'s hoard") so that their forces will be worn down before we meet them.

Could also try to pull our dear friend (rest in peace, you had so much potential now-dead bicon) Kahl from the underworld. Maybe even Va too if his spirit still persists. Use them to bring up the souls of slain traders, with Kahl focusing on that of those Wrul had taken. Worst case maybe trying to make a mad race towards Wrul to collect spirits if this is a regular thing the king did.
Either way, again the focus is to use our goddess' superior magic to even the playing field so that our blades may shine better in battle



The required resources and manpower outweigh their usefulness at this time. We haven't advanced agriculture enough for the sort of freed up labour to be around to make this feasible. As is seen by the current perhaps semi-annual festival usage of the baths, which is quite useless in keeping people healthy.

While I think we very much need to curb discussions outside strategies, it can be viewed as useful for building a foundation that may later prove important. We can argue that their health is improved through this ritual leisure. While not frequent the activities practiced during a festival help build morale, familiarity with each other and the baths, and down the road culture.
For now it's inadvisable to implement them widely, and in the future when they come up I will advocate that we only have them in each tribe's center at most.


EDIT:
I am also going to outline something.
-Bianca has expressed disinterest in making a city, it's foundations as our conceptions of city states have, etc. There's a lot more to it than this, but there is a foundation of why she will not be making a citystate the way others have right off the bat.
-Wrul is a journey of tens of days. It is not a journey that can be made within a week. If I'm being generous it would take a month to get there from the Nine Nations. This is again being generous. While Bianca can travel at inhuman paces about the world if she truly chose to, this does not mean that any others could at present.
-The people of Wrul do not know Bianca, do not worship her, and do not have loyalty to her. They are not the people of the nine nations. They are not our people, they are not her people.
-The people of the Nine Nations do not hold the customs of the cities, do not hold their social order, and do not have want for those. They do not worship other deities as they do Bianca, they are loyal and find the idea of abandoning her as their goddess a strange one. They follow concepts that while sometimes crude align themselves with the good of the whole (their justice bordering on the foundation of restorative justice for example) rather than the good of a mortal ruler who's machinations are of mortal design. Things like 'For my family has so little and yours so much and only you can right this wrong.', that while the cities may hold in similar ways likely don't, and likely suffer in their own for not knowing.

There is little practicality or reason to move the capital (which we only technically have), or for Bianca to try and rule Wrul. If we so chose to do that it could take not a year but likely a century.
We need to align our plans and our designs with the ways of the Nine Nations, as otherwise it is an uphill battle for gains that may not be there, and only leave new problems in their wake.


[X] [Defiance] Demonic Spoon
 
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If she disapproves of how the cities around her are run, then she should rule them as she thinks is proper. Bianca is clearly an experienced governor.

Demon. Bianca's tribal experience in ruling tribes consist of the opinion that cities are not needed, and she consider law enforcers needed for the city to exist as the bad system that brings discord. In the future we need to explain benefits of cities more clearly. The Burgeck no longer want to test our toys, while even a very small city could support a few full-time learned men/early sciencists/specialized craftsmen, and perhaps a place where people could learn and read tablets, etc. In villages most if not all people need to farm, and this is bad when we need to research new things.
 
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12.a. The First Map


Rough map from Bianca's descriptions I guess.

I am surprised there is no discord for meager discussion, but I, the voice spoken of as 'Meridian', feel that it may be interesting to invite the king to take tribute from the nine nations, pick as much as his army can carry from the hoard. Maybe parley with him first.
Tribute in such times is never just shining metals and jewels, but also the food that the Nine Nations has been painstakingly gathering and storing, for else Wrul's army would starve before they could return to their city. And even if Wrul would agree to accepting tribute, his warriors would want their traditional rights of pillage and slave-taking. It is not an acceptable option to us however you slice it, especially since our military force is on a similar level to that of Wrul.

The plan I think of either was is one of brutally slaughtering the king, possibly taking one of his trusted men as prisoner to torture information out of, and soon enough Bianca will travel to Wrul herself and proceed to slaughter the king's family near and distant, those who may be noble, and so on until the city bows to pay the goddess tribute, or will be crippled for when we siege them in due time.
While a good plan, I fear ambush by the wizards of that City, where if only by dint of sheer numbers, some witch or such of skill would have risen to the top and serves the King of Wrul, or is themselves King. Bianca cannot die, but she can be trapped and sealed.

There is little practicality or reason to move the capital (which we only technically have), or for Bianca to try and rule Wrul. If we so chose to do that it could take not a year but likely a century.
I know that subdueing a city would take a long time, which is why I want to get started as soon as possible. You say that a city is not of the Nine Nations, but the Nine Nations were once Eight Nations, and will hopefully in the future become Ten Nations, and Eleven Nations and Twelve and so on. Bianca has done this before, and I hope for her to do so again, but this time with a city.

You say that there is no merit in taking for ourselves a city as our new capital, and I say you are wrong. Only with a concentration of manpower can things of grandness be achieved such as bathhouses and libraries and steel and windmills and waterwheels and the slaying of gods.
 
Demon, we could create and grow our own city, but as I said, Bianca would need to see a need for that first. Maybe we could, in the future, try to explain more complicated justice system and better ways of governing that would limit discord currently inherent in bronze-age cities (separation of judicial authority and law enforcement, for example). For now, we have a war to win.

I apologize, I truly want us to talk about matters relevant to war as is Bianca's will, but Demon constantly whispers to me about cities. So, a few words.

The opposition of bold people to their ruler, law-breaking, and disobedience to orders of a ruler or a god can be reduced by vigilant armed-servants, guards, inquisitors. This is true both inside and outside of cities, but cities, with more people in the small space, travelers, outsiders, etc, need that much more while villages of the Nine Nations are able to function without that for now. Now, this tyranny cause discord (together with other causes of discord, like rich traders or people), but there are also many benefits, from the simple fact that the King or God of a city can enjoy more of his will and whims and laws enacted properly as long as discord is under control, to the fact that there is more trade, more learned men, faster improvements, and some other benefits; and cities may be not able to exist at all without these. The question is, how to deal with discord better than the Known Cities but reap some benefits of their system without dangerous costs?

There are some solutions to make people feel somewhat free even under such a rule. First of all, instead of doing with people and criminals whatever they want, armed servants could be allowed only to: protect property and lives - this is more for younger guards, gather evidence about crimes from things to words of witnesses - this is more for older and more experienced inquisitors, and to bring people suspected as criminals to the closest court of justice, if possible then with the least amount of violence needed or peacefully if the suspected criminal can be persuaded to surrender. The court of justice, composed out of a singer and table-ruler, would hear the words of the accused and consider the evidence of his guilt, and then decide whether there was a crime that needs to be punished and what punishment should be used, according to the written laws, previous similar cases, customs, and the four purposes of punishment. In the case of disagreement between the singer and table-ruler assigned to the case, or in the case of any stronger doubts, the matter could go before your First Singer and your First Servant, or, hopefully rarely as to not waste your time, even before your authority (unless you would want to become interested earlier, as your will should always be supreme).

Basic rights of the free people could be also announced and always respected by the guards, like not entering homes of people without a court order or Bianca's orders, mentioned earlier not punishing people without a court decision or Bianca's decision, right to argue before the court about innocence or for lesser punishment as long as done with respect to the power of the court, and similar. Also, a free person suspected of committing a crime should not be imprisoned by the guards for more than two or three days before standing before the closest court of justice.

Disrespect of these basic rights should be a grave crime (unless done according to your will in the particular case, of course), and it should be known that person disrespectful of these rights and rules is no longer your guard-servant or inquisitor but a criminal himself.

You could also add to such courts of justice people known as the jury, a few well-respected elders that could decide to free the accused person if the majority of them feel that that the armed guards and the court are unreasonably tyrannical in the particular case. Such a decision should be probably written and send to you for additional consideration, though, as to not completely destroy the value of additional power offered to you and to your servants by this system. In some societies imaginable to me juries were randomly selected, in others elected by the free people. Existence of such additional part of the court further limits discord but also further limits the power and authority of your servants, so it needs to be considered wisely whether juries are needed.

It can be said that such a system should offer more power both to the Bianca personally and to her laws and to loyal servants selected by her, but balance additional power with retaining some freedom of the people and causing less discord from tyranny. Perhaps less freedom that it's the case among the free people now, but also less tyranny of the Known Cities. Balance and some benefits of both.

I know about the city known as Athens, where they had no king, nor truly ruling God even though they had temples to various gods. They had courts composed completely out of juries and laws created and changed by voting of the great assembly of their free people. They were in some ways happier than most cities. But of course we need a system where Bianca could enjoy power and more power than now, not an unusually free city, so, it's not ideal in pure form. But in many ways it could be modified and power balanced with freedom, surely.

I believe that even if Bianca decide against creating a city, sooner or later some villages may grow big enough, or number of people per piece of land big enough, to need something like these solutions, to better keep many bold people under control, without feuds and in respect to laws.
Adhoc vote count started by liberty90 on Jul 2, 2019 at 11:33 PM, finished with 122 posts and 9 votes.

  • [X] [Leave] Go to Burgeck and correct their missteps
    [X] [Term] 5 years
    [X] [Defiance] Demonic Spoon
    [X] [Reply] There is a new idea: If Servant and Huo share the same solution, then the solution is undisputably valid, but if they don't come to an agreement they could send the petitioner to Bianca for "higher ruling", possibly with an need for additional tribute for possibly wasting her time.
    [X] [Cacophony] liberty90
    [X] [Reply] They may then go to Burgeck and petition you where you are. If they are willing to make the trip the matter might actually be worthy of your personal attention.
    [X] [Cacophony] Demonic Spoon
    [X] [Term] 10 years
    [X] [Reply] "Here is a stone. Speak to it for all the good it will do you."
    [x] [Defiance] Dragon
    [X] Dragon

Adhoc vote count started by liberty90 on Jul 2, 2019 at 11:34 PM, finished with 29 posts and 4 votes.
 
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I believe you misunderstand. There is no intent to actually give them tribute. The nine nations, and Bianca, give no tribute to any powers.
This is what they call A Trap.

Wizards ruling Wrul, and Bianca being trapped.

Yes, there is always a risk of Bianca's capture, and I feel enemy magic users in positions of power will be inevitable. One of my goals is for Bianca's prowess to continue increasing. She is still formidable on her own in body, mind, and soul though.

Wrul becomes part of the nine nations

You're missing a critical detail. The Sleomjash entered the nine nations over a fair period of time involving intermarriage, and bringing them into the fold. I do feel we could subdue Wrul, but I feel there are a series of significant barriers still in the way of the Why and How.

Again, it is not time for this.
 
[x] [Defiance] Dragon

You do not want to meet the enemy head on at least at first, as that will not lead to a sure victory. Nor do you want to march to the edge of the nine to wait for them there, as then you will have hardship feeding all of the nine.

You said it takes tens of days to travel to the city of Wrul, thousands of men will move slower. To my understanding only the last days (5 or so) of this journey will be within the borders of the 9, so we need to be careful to not anger those outsiders living between there and here, for them to not join the Wrul against us. This is one reason why I would advise against the drastic measures suggested by Demon. The other being the risk of getting angered spirits from such fouling of nature.

Still I think the way to go about winning this army is to make them regretting ever leaving their smelly city before they reach your main force.
An army does not march on an empty stomach, and food is not easy to come by for thousands of people on the go, so they will be transporting that with them or behind them. Send small parties of men, hunters maybe, as they are good at moving fast and silently, to attack the soldiers on the roads to the nine. Attack them fast and by surprise, without committing to an all out battle. Use bows from hidden places, maybe even arrows with fire to burn their gear and the food they are pulling in chariots or wagons, kill the animals carrying or pulling the gear.
When that many people move they will most probably be going in a long line, so if you manage to get close without them noticing you only a small portion will be there when you strike. Attack different parts of said line every time, that way they have to be alert at all times.
You have been earlier told about caltroops, and someone suggested you could use glass shards instead of metal if you do not have metal to spare, or maybe the iron wich is not yet good enough quality to anything more useful. Plant these on the path the army is taking, they will move slow if they have to watch their every footstep. Maybe some other traps could be built as well.
Outside of the nine, the roads are not laid with bricks, that will make them quikly very muddy if it rains. Thus if it is possible, send some rain their way, it need not be a storm, just an everlasting dribble will make the soldiers regret they ever left their homes, and will make the roads and paths they tramp on into an awful mud that gets everywhere and where wagons get stuck.

When they get closer to the lands of the 9 there is more things you can do. You do not want to meet the invaders at the edges of your lands, let them come at least a days or two travel into the lands of the 9. Have everyone on their path take all food and important gear with them, not leaving anything to the army. Have even more parties sneaking attacks on the invaders.
There were suggestions to ask the ice wrights from the ice houses to help you make the enemies miserable, you know best if this is possible but it sounds good.

Another suggestion is to leave badly hidden cursed relics from your hoard in the villages you abadon that the army will pass. When found by the enemy these will probably go to the leaders of their soldiers, wich could be a good strike to their army if the curse is suitable.

Now when you at last meet the enemy, do it where you yourself choose, try to find an area which suits well for your soldiers, maybe if possible so that the enemy needs to attack you with the sun in their eyes and uphill.

If you have time to desode the place in advance and a way to get the enemy to want to come there, then you can prepare the shoosen place more to your advantage. Digg ditches in the path of the enemy on the field, putting the ground from the ditches behind them, and sharpened wooden stakes there to make it hard for the enemy to moove in on you in formation. This can also be used to defend your men from an attack from the sides. You can leave openings in this defense to get their soldiers to atack on those places you want them too, and attack them from the other side of the ground wall. How well this can be done dependa on how well you can get the enemy where you want. But I guess that as their target is your hoard then doing the fight outside a bigger village close to a rpad going for your steading will get them where you want. EmptyHusk should tell you more about these

Remember that as much as destroying their food supplies will make them miserable, so will also the morale of your tribesmen get down if they are hungry. Use your roads to get food from all over the 9 to your army. Do not only rely on whatever there is where the army is, as then you will end up with similar problem as the sandy bread years before.


These suggestion do not need to rule out other suggestions, use whatever means you can, but I would be cautious against just giving the greedy king of Wrul whatever he wants, as then, the rumors about this will only encourage others to try to do the same. I say that if one wants to sneak into the tent of the king of Wrul, then do so to kill him, not to give him what he wants. An army without a leader is like a snake without a head.

As an addition, use your horse riding youngsters to get messages to different groups of your soldiers fast. And if they have trained then they can ride in as a group and shoot from horsback. But I wouöd not ride into the enrmy as the horses are probably not trained fpr the loud noises of battle and might spook.
 
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Still I think the way to go about winning this army is to make them regretting ever leaving their smelly city before they reach your main force.
An army does not march on an empty stomach, and food is not easy to come by for thousands of people on the go, so they will be transporting that with them or behind them. Send small parties of men, hunters maybe, as they are good at moving fast and silently, to attack the soldiers on the roads to the nine. Attack them fast and by surprise, without committing to an all out battle. Use bows from hidden places, maybe even arrows with fire to burn their gear and the food they are pulling in chariots or wagons, kill the animals carrying or pulling the gear.

[X] Dragon

Mostly this mirrors things that I had planned to say. In a direct battle, unless you have weakened them enough beforehand, you will likely lose. Use your roads and your knowledge of the terrain and horses and chariots to move faster than they can in order to avoid a direct battle.
You may be able to trick your enemy into falsely thinking they have a chance for open battle in order to lure them to or away from somewhere and delay them further. Be careful that your ruse does not become the truth however.

As an addition to this, a soldier does not fight nor march well if he is dead tired. Bind spirits to haunt and terrify them when they sleep, assuming they do not know how to ward against that, and possibly have your warrior sneak close to their camp and attack at night, killing sentries and shooting arrows out of the darkness and then retreating again, so they will be forced to wake and rally all their soldiers, only to spend hours standing in the dark waiting for an attack that doesn't come instead of resting for the next days march. If you're really good, they will chase you into traps such as the glass boards I proposed.
You may also be able to bind spirits to spoil any food they do manage to acquire in spite of your efforts.

Further, the army is here to raid and steal from you. Your main goal, next to avoiding harm to the Nine Nations, is to ensure they get nothing of value: Evacuate the villages in their path so they can take no slaves, and take with you all the food and valuables that they might find so they have nothing to eat and nothing to loot.
What you cannot take with you, hide; You can reduce the signs of something being buried if, before you start digging, you cut turf (the upper layer of earth carrying grass held together by roots) into squares that are then peeled off the soil beneath and set aside. After filling in the pit, put the squares back where they were. Assuming the grass survived being transplanted so (take care you do not injure the roots more than necessary), the lawn will grow back over the cuts and conceal them. Objects of metal and stone and glass may be thrown into ponds and lakes at specific spots and be hard to find and dredge up afterwards if you do not know where exactly they are; Other objects that wouldn't otherwise might survive the same experience if sealed into oiled bags, though any leak will likely ruin them. You may in particular need to hide you hoard, as that is their main goal.
What you cannot take with you nor hide, destroy or poison.
Deny your enemy what they are looking for and give him nothing but frustration and pain in return, and the next they time they think to invade you, hopefully they will reconsider.
 
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Gnarker, to allow them entry into lands of the Nine Nations is something that Bianca wants to avoid, and would cause unacceptable destruction.
 
Gnarker, to allow them entry into lands of the Nine Nations is something that Bianca wants to avoid, and would cause unacceptable destruction.

As i said in my text we cant easily avoid them entering our lands compleetly. It is not feasible with the food transportation etc. But i think they should be stopped begor reaching Biancas steading, maybe even before one of the biggest villages as if those are destroyed we loose much. But if we just loose some smaller villages and in turn get to choose the battelfield in known terrain and get a working supply line I think it is worth it
 
Gnarker, to allow them entry into lands of the Nine Nations is something that Bianca wants to avoid, and would cause unacceptable destruction.

If she can prevent that, that would be ideal. If she cannot, she needs to prepare for that. Wether she can, only she knows, if anyone even does until after the fact.
This is war. There's always a risk that stuff is going to get broken. As long as that doesn't include people, and as long as anything too valuable can be hidden, everything else can be replaced.
 
Bit of brainstorming:
If our ice house spirits could concentrate their power upon a specific part of the enemies body, they could freeze their eyes. Perhaps the necessary precision could be gained from an archer or slingsman spirit.
By combining the efforts of a water bearer & ice house spirit, you might be able to coat a battlefield in ice.
The enemy might have some way to repel spirits and workings of that which fills and lifts, but if a giant's spirit threw a rock from outside the protections it may bypass them entirely.
If by some method you could cause many small holes to appear where the enemy is marching, just the right size for the unwary to break an ankle.

Oh! Ice house spirits might be used to affect the weather.
Know that air carries water, and that warm air can carry more than cold. When warm-wet air is cooled such that it cannot hold all the water that it contained, the excess water forms tiny droplets which are held aloft by winds to form clouds & fog. Over time drops combine until they are to heavy for wind to support, at which point they fall as rain.
 
100 feet is a conservative estimation, especially if the pit latrines breach the groundwater, as is the case in the Nine Nations, which can contaminate wells and even rivers far in excess of 100 feet away. Exact safe distances have a large variance depending on soil composition and depth of the groundwater, thus making 100 feet a good rule of thumb.

By my judgement poisoning water sources is larger health hazard than open defecation.

Could you provide sources. Because I honestly believe that your explanations in regards to that are drastically different than modern WHO advice for India and Africa.

Demon, you said or want to say: "By my judgement poisoning water sources is larger health hazard than open defecation". Maybe, but we again disagree about the proper distance between waste pits and wells. I still believe that your advice sounds excessive, though when it's not highly inconvenient then your 100 feet can be used I suppose, if it wouldn't discourage people too much from use. And not covered fresh human waste is a great danger to health, full of germs often. This reminds me that some ash can be thrown into the pit after each use to reduce smell and speed-up decomposition.

When one vault is full, it should be covered with soil and closed for at least one year to allow the human waste to break down and become less harmful. Then it can be safely added to compost to help with the black soil creation.

And, while I should talk about war instead, a few more words that should be said 20 years ago: turning over compost pile when water freezes during winter is stupid, at these or colder temperatures germs cannot do their work properly.

Let me think, what about these matters can be applied to the art of warfare... I know: when possible, warriors should cover their waste with some soil and do that outside of their camp and if possible downstream or downhill.
 
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Bit of brainstorming:
If our ice house spirits could concentrate their power upon a specific part of the enemies body, they could freeze their eyes. Perhaps the necessary precision could be gained from an archer or slingsman spirit.
By combining the efforts of a water bearer & ice house spirit, you might be able to coat a battlefield in ice.
The enemy might have some way to repel spirits and workings of that which fills and lifts, but if a giant's spirit threw a rock from outside the protections it may bypass them entirely.
If by some method you could cause many small holes to appear where the enemy is marching, just the right size for the unwary to break an ankle.

Oh! Ice house spirits might be used to affect the weather.
Know that air carries water, and that warm air can carry more than cold. When warm-wet air is cooled such that it cannot hold all the water that it contained, the excess water forms tiny droplets which are held aloft by winds to form clouds & fog. Over time drops combine until they are to heavy for wind to support, at which point they fall as rain.
Maybe hailstorms/icy rain, but that might backlash on any farmplants in those areas
 
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