Cacophonous Interlude is NOT active
(the QMPC does NOT hear what you write right now)
Next story update : Sometime in July would be nice
Next vote closing : TBD
Progress toward next update : 3,146 words
Code:
Anything I post that's not in text blocks or in spoilers
may be understood to be said by the QMPC, with the
exception of the Collaboration Post
(see Collaboration Post for details on itself)
Code:
Players do not need to use code blocks or spoilers
outside of cacophonous interludes
If you use code blocks, please limit yourself to 32 lines
and your lines to 57 characters, so that people on mobile
can read them without scrolling within the code block
Code:
This is not meant to be Plagiarism Quest.
You're not discouraged from using outside reference
material or quoting other sources. When you do, please
cite your sources in spoilers or a code box.
Code:
I have added some players who contributed a fair amount
the last two times as thread collaborators who can update
the collaboration post. If you'd like to update the
collaboration post too, contact me by PM and we'll talk
about it.
Check the Collaboration Post and read the latest story post in the Threadmarks to get a rough idea of where things are at.
If you're not already involved in the game, portions of either of these may be difficult to follow. But you can skip to the line that says "B R E A K" in the latest threadmarked story post and skim from there to get an idea of what's going on.
If there's no corresponding Closing The Vote post in the Informational threadmarks for the latest story post in (normal?) Threadmarks, then the game is in a cacophonous interlude and the QMPC will hear what you post, unless you do so with spoilers or code boxes. The NOTICES portion at the top of this post should also tell you if the game is in a cacophonous interlude.
So you can engage with other players, make suggestions, ask questions, and propose plans and you can compose a message to the QMPC all whether or not the game is in a cacophonous interlude. And once it is, you can vote and/or send a message to the QMPC by creating a post in the thread.
If you want to vote, simply do so as you would in other quests on this board. You may look at other players' votes to see how yours should be formatted. And you may check the tally to see that yours are counted as you intend them.
If you want to send a message to the QMPC, though, keep in mind that they are a creature of their time. They may not understand what you mean if you don't take the time to make it clear. This game rewards and demands work from its players. When a player wants to introduce a concept or tool or technology to the QMPC, that player will probably need to expend effort to explain it carefully, and take into consideration the limits of the QMPC's understanding of the world.
I think this is similar enough to Graeber's 'interpretive labor' that we can use the term colloquially to describe what is being asked of players. Put yourself in the mind of the QMPC and ask yourself how such a person can be made to understand what you want to tell them.
The QMPC has different values than we do. They have different assumptions about the world and objects and forces within it. Their goals may not align directly with number-go-up or color-get-big gaming agendas. But they want something, and will listen most attentively to players that tell them how to get more of or closer to what they want.
The Quest Master posts story updates that have 3 parts.
Quest Master Player Character responses to player posts made during the last cacophonous interlude
An update by the QMPC following a break of varying length but usually some number of years, covering what the character believes is worth mentioning
Requests by the QMPC for direction on a number of issues, which the players will provide in the form of votes
Following each story update, players posts are audible to the QMPC until voting is closed.
This is the cacophonous interlude.
Players may convey any information they can represent in text.
No images, sounds, or hyperlinks will get through (this is my limitation, not a limitation of the game, so please do not try to transcend it with clever protocol tricks).
Players may use spoilers or code blocks to communicate with each other without doing so in ways the QMPC can hear.
When votes are tallied, the QM collects player posts so that it may be known what the QMPC heard.
Votes are tallied in the conventional fashion. So only votes in the most recent post by each player are counted. [X] marks what the player is voting. And only identical write-ins accumulate.
Some votes are querying the players for their preference, in which case the only suboptimal answer is that which does not accurately reflect the preference of the players who nonetheless chose it (I don't think these kinds of misunderstandings can be helped).
Other votes are intended as puzzles where there is a choice the QM believes would best meet what they believe to be the goals of the players.
However, in these sorts of votes the QM has in mind a choice that would provide the players with what the QM thinks they most want, but which is not listed in the available votes.
In this way, clever write-ins are encouraged.
QM reads player posts, researches their suggestions, checks notes for precedent, determines what the QMPC thinks they already know on the topic, what they're right or wrong about, how likely they are to engage with the topic, how likely the QMPC's followers are to follow-through in the matter, and finally what the result is going to be later on.
QM composes QMPC's responses to player posts made during the cacophonous interlude and updates their notes.
When narrative benefits from uncertainty and chance, QM devises tests for QMPC or other characters and makes those tests using die rolls on a post made just for that purpose.
Skill or attribute tests will be made with a largely undocumented homebrew modification of the Burning Wheel system, mangled to suit the format of this game. (The Burning Wheelis a good system and I encourage you to check it out.)
Tests may be a contest between two characters or against a static target with tiered results.
The rules being used and followed will be described in each post in which tests are made by die rolls.
Normal mortals count 7s and better as successes.
Heroic characters and characters who are otherwise innately magical count 6s and better as successes.
Demigod characters and characters who otherwise possess some spark of divinity count 5s and better as successes.
New gods and characters who have otherwise stolen the power of Old Gods count 4s and better as successes.
Old Gods count 3s and better as successes.
Sorcery and other magic skills lower the threshold of success by 1 to a minimum of 3 only when they are the skill being tested, not when they provide a bonus to other skills. Players may note that Old Gods' threshold of success does not improve when they use magic.
Bonus dice provided by Kahl's Warhorses and any incendiary devices more complicated than a burning arrow reroll 9s & 10s and keeps successes. These same bonus dice cancels successes on 1s & 2s, rerolls those, and additional 1s & 2s cancel additional successes. More 1s, 2, 9, or 10s mean more rerolling and more successes or cancelations, but only in the manner of the original die. That is, a 1 or 2 that comes up when a 9 on a bonus die is rerolled don't cancel successes or lead to further rerolling.
Research project results are determined by percentile dice with results falling into 5 tiers.
Uh oh: something has gone horribly wrong
Nuh uh: failure, but the boring kind
Huh: partial success
Uh huh: full success
Whoa: superior special case success
When players expect a test to be coming up -- for example if they vote for an invasion or to send a diplomat to manipulate a foreign leader -- they can improve the odds of the test turning out the way they want by providing the QMPC with advice specific to that matter. If the advice is not mistaken or outright bad, there will be at least a chance it will help. That is, decent advice adds dice.
QM composes the QMPC's post-break update, player vote questions, and player vote options.
GOTO 1
The QMPC is intended to be the only character the players will interact with in this game. (It's kind of possible that the players could maneuver the QMPC to surrender control of the Astute Cacophony to another character, but unlikely.)
The QMPC is a small, evil woman who knows magic and has not died, despite looking like she probably should have at some point. She goes by the name Bianca the Undying. Her early life took place in the Paleolithic, in which she has said that she traveled around quite a bit and came to understand the malleable nature of populations of people and animals and even the land itself. At some point she was trapped underground, to her displeasure. She remained trapped for a very long time.
When Bianca got out, she found her way to a community of eight tribes living pastoral and agrarian lifestyles in the local Copper Age. She made these people hers and they relied on her for magically enriching their fields so that they did not need to slash, burn, and move around a bit, unlike their neighbors. Bianca and her followers formalized their relationships into the Eight Ways Pact. Later, another tribe joined Bianca's followers bringing small horses and the Bronze Age and their pact was updated with a ninth directive.
Bianca has an agenda that requires her to have more power than she does right now. She believes that achieving divinity will get her that power.
Whit backfired i meant the tecnology have not been implemented without incidents because beforehand knowledge was aquired. This is backfires like collapsing stonework or hitting ice under their feet with a hammer.
What i meant with berserking barbarians is that according to Bianca our soldiers run shouting into the battle and she have been very sceptical about suggestions on formation fighting.
On the matter of where she is in the world I askt her about it in the last pass. I do not see why people is that obsessed with an copy of earth as it does not have to be.
We should really have a platform for collekting known technology etc to better coordinate this. Do anyone have a suggestion for some open platform or the will to manage one?
Most tech and advancements come with population density and food production. I think we should simply focus on urbanization and wait until the tribes way of life simply isn't feasible anymore.
On the matter of where she is in the world I askt her about it in the last pass. I do not see why people is that obsessed with an copy of earth as it does not have to be.
Not obsessed with it per se, but as a biology student, who is aware of just how closely evolution is tied to continental geography and dynamics, the presence of real plants and animals is a pretty big indicator that we're also dealing with real geography. I suppose you could just handwave it as 'evolution went the same way despite hugely different conditions because reasons', and for a normal setting that'd be absolutely fine, but given that this game is all about delving into the science behind stuff and as a result said science needs to kind of exist and be accurate in the first place, it just doesn't seem likely to me?
Also, reusing existing geography would hugely reduce the GM's workload compared to coming up with an original map, and then also generating realistic ecosystems including all potentially useful or dangerous plants and animals they contain.
I suppose as an alternative we could be dealing with a merely similar map (the Europe-analogue being an archipelago instead of a peninsula for example), with ecosystems transposed from their closest real-world counterparts, and then just handwave the difference, but even here it'd be extremely valuable to know roughly where we are, and which biological and mineral resources we should point towards as a result.
Yeah, but how would magic influence evolution here? I can think of several ways:
First, magical lifeforms. Strikes me as at least plausible, though from what we've seen these would be in addition to mundane lifeforms, not as a replacement of them.
Second, creationism, that some god simply created familiar-to-us ecosystems out of whole cloth. Strikes me as unlikely at least with the magic that we've seen so far, which is built entirely on the presence of spirits, the ghosts of formerly-living beings, which leads to a chicken-and-egg scenario: We need a god to introduce life, but we need life to produce a god.
I suppose it's possible that there existed an alien global ecosystem before, which produced a sufficiently powerful spirit to replace that global ecosystem with one more familiar to us, but even then we'd likely still see traces of the old system remaining. And none of that answers the question of why the hell any god would do something like that?
Alternatively said god wandered in from somewhere else and did it as an experiment, but to know what Earth life looks like he'd have to have been in contact with Earth itself, which I'm pretty sure would have left traces, of which we obviously haven't found any. Unless we also postulate that there's an in-game Earth independent of the local planet floating around somewhere for the sole reason of serving as this hypothetical deity's template, and then we're just making assumptions built on top of assumptions without any foundation of reason. There's a point where it gets silly.
Third, import. That by some freak event like magical portals earth life was transported to and then colonized this planet. Also strikes me as unlikely even ignoring the potential issue of back-contamination of any possibly existing xeno-life back to earth, simply because of logistics on two different levels.
First, the global: There exist hundreds of distinct ecosystems at least on earth scattered all over the globe, and I'm assuming that at least the vast majority of them are present on the planet as well. Which in turn would take either an enormous amount of portal saturation, or a level of coordination requiring conscious intention (which would bring us back to case two).
Second, the local: Any ecosystem contains thousands of distinct species, minimum, grasses, flowers, trees and bushes, insects, mammals, birds, fish, etc., and all that's just macroscopic life. All of those species, unless imported in large amounts, would be subject to genetic bottlenecks; The bare minimum for a sexually reproducing species to be able to even survive long-term is 150 individuals, and even then the population will be wracked with genetic defects unless you go up, at a guess, another order of magnitude or two at least.
Which, combined, means that to transpose earth life onto another planet, you'd require thousands of portals or more, spread across earth, open long enough each that a breeding population of all species of the local ecosystem can wander through by random chance and then get established somewhere on the other side.
And yes, admittedly I'm assuming here that the Earth biosphere was transposed in at least approximately it's entirety, but for the same game-mechanical reasons as in my last post: I'm pretty sure that all our knowledge of useful real-world crops and animals is intended to be applicable, and not just our knowledge of the locally occuring species.
Would it be possible for you to explain rules of Mendelian inheritance/genetics? This could improve her primitive attempts at selective breeding, as reality is slightly more complicated that our earlier simplified "allow to reproduce the best ones".
Would it be possible for you to explain rules of Mendelian inheritance/genetics? This could improve her primitive attempts at selective breeding, as reality is slightly more complicated that our earlier simplified "allow to reproduce the best ones".
reusing existing geography would hugely reduce the GM's workload compared to coming up with an original map, and then also generating realistic ecosystems including all potentially useful or dangerous plants and animals they contain.
GM's been running the quest since march, which is just a reboot of almost the same quest from further back.
This has probably been in their mind before actually just plopping it down, so the workload is probably relatively done by now.
I still think it's cool you're doing this legwork, and if it's true that'll give a lot of future context, but I have my doubts.
I mean, it was. But if I recall correctly, the fact that it was a copy of Earth didn't come up during the quest.
I don't think anyone figured it out. And I don't think I spilled that until after I put it down.
This one is going differently, though. And maybe it'd be useful to figure out what the map looks like. Or maybe questions that knowing-what-the-map-looks-like would answer can more easily be answered by asking different questions. Even I don't know for sure, since y'all come up with questions I definitely hadn't anticipated.
Yeah, but how would magic influence evolution here? I can think of several ways:
First, magical lifeforms. Strikes me as at least plausible, though from what we've seen these would be in addition to mundane lifeforms, not as a replacement of them.
Second, creationism, that some god simply created familiar-to-us ecosystems out of whole cloth. Strikes me as unlikely at least with the magic that we've seen so far, which is built entirely on the presence of spirits, the ghosts of formerly-living beings, which leads to a chicken-and-egg scenario: We need a god to introduce life, but we need life to produce a god.
I suppose it's possible that there existed an alien global ecosystem before, which produced a sufficiently powerful spirit to replace that global ecosystem with one more familiar to us, but even then we'd likely still see traces of the old system remaining. And none of that answers the question of why the hell any god would do something like that?
Alternatively said god wandered in from somewhere else and did it as an experiment, but to know what Earth life looks like he'd have to have been in contact with Earth itself, which I'm pretty sure would have left traces, of which we obviously haven't found any. Unless we also postulate that there's an in-game Earth independent of the local planet floating around somewhere for the sole reason of serving as this hypothetical deity's template, and then we're just making assumptions built on top of assumptions without any foundation of reason. There's a point where it gets silly.
Third, import. That by some freak event like magical portals earth life was transported to and then colonized this planet. Also strikes me as unlikely even ignoring the potential issue of back-contamination of any possibly existing xeno-life back to earth, simply because of logistics on two different levels.
First, the global: There exist hundreds of distinct ecosystems at least on earth scattered all over the globe, and I'm assuming that at least the vast majority of them are present on the planet as well. Which in turn would take either an enormous amount of portal saturation, or a level of coordination requiring conscious intention (which would bring us back to case two).
Second, the local: Any ecosystem contains thousands of distinct species, minimum, grasses, flowers, trees and bushes, insects, mammals, birds, fish, etc., and all that's just macroscopic life. All of those species, unless imported in large amounts, would be subject to genetic bottlenecks; The bare minimum for a sexually reproducing species to be able to even survive long-term is 150 individuals, and even then the population will be wracked with genetic defects unless you go up, at a guess, another order of magnitude or two at least.
Which, combined, means that to transpose earth life onto another planet, you'd require thousands of portals or more, spread across earth, open long enough each that a breeding population of all species of the local ecosystem can wander through by random chance and then get established somewhere on the other side.
And yes, admittedly I'm assuming here that the Earth biosphere was transposed in at least approximately it's entirety, but for the same game-mechanical reasons as in my last post: I'm pretty sure that all our knowledge of useful real-world crops and animals is intended to be applicable, and not just our knowledge of the locally occuring species.
You assume this is a perfect simulation of all things wich it is not. The gm is no master on all subjects and thus you will find small unlogicalities in this if you really search for them. (No offence meant gm. This is a great forum. )
The fact there is plants from our world is most probably because that is much easier for the gm both in world building stage and then in this communication. The plants are probably taken from a similar climate than this.
The sizes of the various result ranges are determined by the conditions in which the test is taking place, much of which is not known to the player, modified by the amount and quality of information the players have given Bianca on the matter and, in this case, by not failing catastrophically in past attempts at the same goal.
Code:
Secret Test 5 : Uh huh
Secret Test 6 will be 2d10 dice rolled as percentile. The results will be measured against the following scale.
The sizes of the various result ranges are determined by the conditions in which the test is taking place, much of which is not known to the player, modified by the amount and quality of information the players have given Bianca on the matter and, in this case again, by not failing catastrophically in past attempts at the same goal..
Code:
Secret Test 6 : Huh
Secret Test 7 will be 2d10 dice rolled as percentile. The results will be measured against the following scale.
The sizes of the various result ranges are determined by the conditions in which the test is taking place, much of which is not known to the player, modified by the amount and quality of information the players have given Bianca on the matter.
Also, I realize I'm just obfuscating d20 rolls here right now. That's fine.
Code:
Secret Test 7 : Huh
I want to determine how successful the leadership of Burgeck Tribe is at convincing Bianca that she should have them as her priesthood.
Boil that down to a single test and, out of the skills measurably possessed by the leadership of Burgeck Tribe, it sounds like we're talking about persuasion. They might not measure up to people raised on court intrigue, but the leaders of Burgeck Tribe are about as good at this sort of thing as you can get outside of a certain radius around a city (4). They've been practicing for conversations like this for a long time and have lots of information about what arguments not to make, which writing has allowed them to gather together to build their plan and argument (1). The most charming members of Burgeck Tribe have won over some skilled and informed singers to their cause, who will lend their considerable aid (2). They unarguably succeeded at one of the three tasks in which she recently personally directed them (1).
So Bugeck's leaders are rolling 4 + 1 + 2 +1 in d10s, or 9d10. Mortals who are not doing magic or heroically empowered count a die as a success if it's a 7 or better. Fate favors Burgeck Tribe due to some backroom supernatural dealings -- which Bianca is aware of but not impressed by -- so Burgeck will be able to reroll any 9s and 10s rolled.
Their target is static and starts with Bianca's own force of will, which is 7. That's pretty much it. She thinks she knows what she wants and doesn't feel as strongly about it as she's just stubborn. Good fucking luck, boys and girls.
If Burgeck is successful then as much of the tribe as can draw themselves away from labor will serve as the priesthood of Bianca the Undying. The young warriors they've been dedicating to her will be available as Zealots for at Bianca's command. And Burgeck will continue to pursue Bianca's research goals.
If their roll doesn't meet her target, then Bianca will continue to believe she does not need a priesthood and Burgeck's hopes will be crushed. Until living memory fades, they will cease to seek her favor over the other tribes and no longer jump to her every whim. They're also going to be really, really broken up about it. There will be poetry, sad poetry.
Code:
Burgeck's big play for the love of their
goddess is a bust at three of seven needed
successes.
Going forward, neither Bianca nor the
players will be able to take for granted
Burgeck's willingness to try strange
things 'because I said so.'
Let the emo lamentations commence!
12
"Very well, voices. In a move that is certain to be the delight of their brief and sanctimaniacal lives, I will go to the lands of Burgeck Tribe and directly participate in the various projects I have set them to. I will spend at least five years with them. And when, in my absence, some supplicant finds fault in the otherwise final answer given by First Singer Huo, they will be told that they can only bring their supplication directly to me if they can convince First Table-Ruler Servant that the First Singer's decision is inadequate.
We do not need iron. Bronze shall serve our needs in the short term.
If by "a while" Black Cat means several centuries, they are correct. Elsewise, they are wrong. The mass production of glass won't be possible without much advancements in mining, furnace-making and several other related fields, or the unusual presence of large quantities of specific resources that are extremely unlikely in our current geographic location.
It would help me guide you in the correct making of glass oh Undying Bianca, if I actually knew what went wrong. How does the failed glass look?
The laborious gathering of the ores for iron, and the work and fuel needed to smelt it, and its limited utility and high weight makes such trades probably unprofitable.
The main reason I asked OOC is because I didn't in fact know if it was deliberate left from the after timeskip summary, or if you'd forgotten about it, which is perfectly possible with such lengthy turns. I appreciate the clarification that it was left out because Bianca didn't think to mention it.
[X] [Cacophony] Demonic Spoon
"What would you advise?"
[X] [Leave] Pretyranny Tour
I believe I have made my opinions on the pressing need to conquer cities clear before.
"I mean to spend five years at this, but I could spend more. What say you?"
[X] [Term] 5 years
"And I will leave First Singer Huo in charge, as before. But when the people do not take her word as mine, what should she do?"
[X] [Reply] Keep a record for Bianca's return
Oftentimes to humans, knowing that their complaint has been heard and will be passed along to the one they view as the highest authority is as important to them as the complaint itself. In this way you will soothe their egoes, and cement your own ultimate authority. Of course, the problem is the workload related to this, but all things carry prices, as the demonic proverbs go.
You must understand Bianca, as a Demon I have needs. Needs that can only be sated by you describing to me how the making of ink has gone. The smells you understand.
And the knowledge of glazing I have so generously endowed upon you, has it been useful?
Of Dogs and Donkeys:
Most enlightening. Perhaps take of the hunting and wardogs to create your own specific breed of dog with a distinctive appearance to guard your hoard and track stolen treasure? Having a breed of "Bianca Dogs" who can track and take down any thief would be good for your prestige and further add to the legend of your hoard no?
As to the fake horses, they sound to be donkeys. Useful creatures those. They can interbreed with horses to produce sterile offspring. This is far more likely to occur from a male donkey mating with a female horse, with the resulting offspring from such a pairing being known as mules. The reverse, a male horse mating with a female donkey to produce a hinny, is possible, but such matings are less likely to result in offspring and harder to bring about. Hinnies are generally also less useful than mules.
Mules are good work animals, combining some of the better traits of horses and donkeys. You may test this to see how you feel about it.
Donkeys can help guard sheep to a certain extent, and reportedly have a calming effect on nearby nervous horses if pastured with them.
Glass
I will once again repeat my request for more information. What is the nature and details of their failures? Do they sometimes fail and sometimes succeed while using the same type of sand with the same type of soda from the same place and the same type of lime in the same furnace with the same fuel?
If not, then the problem does not appear to be with the process itself, but with what they are using to make. The most likely cause of the problem is the Soda, as various plants, even of the same type, will tend to vary widely in quality depending on where they're growing. The second most likely culprit is the sand, which can also have large differences from region to region.
If you want consistent results, you should use a consistent process and consistent ingredients.
However, even in one batch some crucibles may succeed in making glass and some may not. This is perfectly normal. The failed, semi-melted proto-glass can be ground up and mixed in for the next firing, and can result in better quality glass.
If there is a large variance in success even when everything else is constant, rather than merely some failures with every firing, then I would like to request a thorough explanation on the exact process that is being carried out, and a description of the furnaces being used, before I can help more definitively.
If all else fails however, increase the heat and increase the firing time, as I have previously instructed, and as a final resort, add more soda.
The greenishness of the glass is likely from iron rust, and can be counteracted to some extent by putting a layer of lime on the inside of the crucibles in which the glass is smelted.
The key point to forming glass is to be able to work with it while it is still molten. To this end a variety of metal tools that can withstand the high heat are needed. Bronze is probably the most practical in this regard.
Making Vessels
Two techniques are of interest when making vessels such as bowls, bottles, cups, goblets, jars, vases and jugs. The first is core-forming.
First, make a the core from dung, clay, sand and water, and insert the end of a metal pole into it. The core should be in the shape that you want the inside of the vessel to look like. After drying, the core may be further carved and filed to gain the final shape. Once finished, the core should be fired in a kiln similar to pottery, with the pole sticking out of the entrance.
Second, make glass as normal, but while it is still molten in the furnace, dip the core at the end of the long metal pole into the crucible of molten glass to cover the core in glass. Then remove the pole from the furnace. The vessel can be rolled on a flat surface such as a stone tabletop to smoothen and flatten the outside.
At this point, the basic vessel is complete, but you may shape the outside of the vessel with metal tongs and pincers, reheating it in the furnace as needed, or press it inside two half pottery molds to achieve a desired shape.
Handles can be added to the vessels by dipping a second metal pole into the molten glass in a crucible and dabbing the molten glass onto the heated vessel, stretching and shaping it with tongs as desired.
Once done, let the vessel cool slowly in a low heat oven. Once cooled pull out the pole, and scrape out the core to leave behind a useful vessel. Glass vessels should not leak if everything was done correctly, and do not react with many things that other materials might react with, like acid.
A method to make bowls is to remove a crucible from the furnace with a pair of long metal tongs while the metal is still molten and poured out in a shallow basin to form flat planes, which can then be heated on a mound in a furnace to form a bowl, or directly put into windows in houses to keep out the wind while still letting in light.
Alternatively, make a mound of sand outside the furnace and remove the crucible while the glass is viscous and fluid, but not too runny, and pour the glass directly onto the mound outside the furnace so that it will slowly flow over it into a bowl shape and then solidify into a bowl.
Greenhouses
It is possible to make special houses entirely from panes of glass on a wooden frame, that will be hotter inside than the surroundings due to letting in heat but keeping out cold wind. This is useful for growing certain types of plants that don't do well in the cold.
Casting Glass
Like metal, glass may be poured into a mould to make solid shapes. This might be most useful in the making of lenses which can increase the apparent size of objects viewed through it. Make moulds for round glass plates which slightly bulge out from the center at each side, that is to say convex, and they should function as magnifying lenses to some degree or other.
Lodestones:
These do indeed sound like lodestones. In addition to reacting with each other they should also react with non-rusted iron, pulling it towards themselves or being pulled towards it. This may help you test some ores for iron, but not all such ores are in a form that reacts to the lodestones, unfortunately.
As to the nature of their manner, the inner essence of the lodestones have been changed by a baptism of lightning. Both the resulting magnetism and the lightning itself are manifestations of the forces of electromagnetism, which is not currently relevant to you.
If you do manage to find more magnetite, an experiment which you might try to is to place long copper poles pointing at the sky in stormy regions, preferrably on higher ground such on a hill or mountain. Then place unprocessed magnetite rocks around the base of the copper pole, or even strap them directly to the pole.
The copper pole invites lightning to strike it, and theoretically will conduct the lightning to the magnetite which may then become new lodestones. I am not sure whether this will actually work, and await your results eagerly.
Compass:
As is hinted at by its name, lodestones are useful for orienting yourself and telling direction. If, for example, the lodestone is placed on a floating disk of wood in a bowl of water, it should consistently shift to be orientated along the earth's north-south axis due to the earth's own magnetic field.
Alternatively a piece of lodestone could be carved in a curved spoon such that it will remain balanced on the larger spoony bottom when at rest. If placed on a smooth plate, the spoon should theoretically turn to orientate itself on the north-south axis of the world.
Sign-language:
Those who lose their hearing when they are older can still read if they were taught, and can learn the tongue of fingers from another who knows it, who can write down the meanings for each sign, and point to it before or after showing the sign to the person learning. Then this could also be taught to that person's close family so they can talk to their loved one, or serve as an interpreter with outsiders.
Of course, there is much to be said for every person having at least some competence in a shared sign language. While yes, overall spoken communication is capable of a greater range of meaning and is more convenient, there are often situations in which making noise is inconvenient, or existing noise makes it impossible for you to hear each other.
Two new parents might sign at each other to avoid waking the baby, people near a waterfall or a blacksmith hammering on an anvil might sign becauase they cannot hear each other's words, you already know the use of sign language in hunting, and of course in combat, and it is also useful when in diplomacy, when dealing with outsiders you may speak to them and also communicate vital information with each other, like asking if we have enough glass tokens to buy all of their fine spears, for example.
Or perhaps something like the icehouse spirits may happen again, but this time the spirits require silence in their presence or they will attack people. Certainly stranger things seem to be possible with magic.
The main utility to my mind however, is keeping people who lose their hearing useful, because a large amount of resources is invested into raising every single person, and thus it is imperative to get as much work and use out of them as possible, for as long as possible.
You will not truly lose anything great by not developing sign language however.
Overcast Stitching:
The solution to this is thankfully relatively simple. Fold the edge of the fabric over itself slightly, forming a small edge which you then stitch into place by hand, using a bone or metal needle if you have such. Needles being thin, sharp tools with a point at one end and a small hole or eye at the other, which thread is pushed or threaded through and tied into knot too large to go back through the hole. The needle is then pushed through the fabric and guides the thread behind it.
Bathhouses are a waste of resources.
Cholera
Naive! Bianca, I strongly urge you to promulgate a new law forbidding the digging of pit latrine within a hundred feet of wells used for drinking water, and stating that pit latrines may not be dug into the groundwater, the depth of the soil where water seeps from the dirt as in wells. Otherwise many sicknesses will spread from the feces to the water, contaminating it and sickening those who drink from the water wells.
For pits that are emptied, a system of two paired pits may be considered. Once one pit is filled, usage moves to the second pit, when the second pit is close to full, the first pit is emptied, and once the second pit is full, usage moves back to the first pit and so on.
By giving the feces time to decompose, it will be significantly safer for the slaves. A healthy slave is a good slave after all, since then there is then less risk of them spreading diseases to other people.
Then we seem to have a goal for the distant future. Make great ships of metal, armed with spear-launchers to hunt whales and sail to meet Rorqual upon the high seas. No doubt her blubber shall be delicious.
Growing vegetables in greenhouses is of course impractical. I was considering high-return for lower volume plants such as spices. For example saffron. Greenhouses do not need to be large after all.
For the those saying we should correct the missteps of the Bugreck, I would like too state my opinion that spreading out our territory away from the growing threat of the Ghost Forest is far more important than perfecting various toys, my own toys included among that number. I would strongly urge you to reconsider. Iron will not be useable for quite some time, and even then it would take even more time to make a sizeable amount of weapons or armour from it. We should scout out the targets, and then strike like the wrath of the gods we plan to murder.
Feel free to mention these concerns! Personally I am satisfied with that I've written and don't plan on changing it.
The sooner we expand, the sooner we can begin making our new cities part of the Nine Nations, the sooner we can have access to the larger resources bases they provide us, and make use of their increased available manpower to pursue various technological projects as well as search for various useful ores and larger-scale deforestation projects. The advantages to conquering cities is immense, even if you disagree with me on the short-term threat the Ghost Forest poses.
The reason Bianca's control is indirect is because her people are not concentrated in one place. It is perfectly possible, and indeed desirable, for Bianca to move to and directly rule the most useful of the cities, bringing along a cadre of loyal Nine Nationers to serve as her new administrative caste and future nobility.
No, Bianca's understanding of conquest is the one that you have given to her and you spoke in terms of tribute. The only one equating conquest with tribute here seems to be you Black Cat.
Previously conflict has been mostly low-level raids to the point that the people of the Nine Nations have forgotten what war truly is, but this is not the case for Bianca. It is thus normal for the people to have no understand of conquest because they are used to raids. This is however irrelevant, as we only need to convince Bianca that taking control of a city directly rather than as a tributary is desirable.
The mandate of Bianca's administration is the slow integration of new groups of people into the larger social and cultural identity of the Nine Nations. That is a form of conquest, and is perfectly acceptable, once she control a cities and begins enacting such, in time it shall become a part of the nine nations.
"I have been told by other voices, Demon, that iron will be plentiful once its blooming is mastered and that it will be as useful as bronze. Once the Free People no longer need to carefully portion out the bronze they have, all their tools will be better, all their labors will be easier, faster, and more effective, and all their weapons and armor will be greater.
"Bronze serves my needs only because I have nothing better. However, there are many things I desire to have as soon as they may be had. And iron is only one of them.
"Whether strangers in distant cities will trade bronze for glass for only ten years or for two hundred, it will benefit the Free People of the Nine Nations to make as many of those trades as possible, I think. Another voice once said while describing trade that traders may only move goods from one city to another, but those goods may be moved by other traders from that city to one further, and so on. So as glass is traded to the four known cities, those cities will trade that glass to cities beyond them, unknown to me, and bring back goods, some of which may then be traded to Free People of Lan or Naumo or whomever for more glass.
"And I do not know, Demon, the manner of Burgeck's failures. I know that their messages to me might say they have combined the materials as directed and treated them as directed seven times and here are the seven sets of glass ingots produced. And yet my singers would tell me that they have made more than seven attempts, many more. But Burgeck's messages do not speak to these.
"It is true that the weight of iron and its insuitability for tools, even relative to copper, makes it unattractive as a trade good. But it is a novel material, an unfamiliar metal. So fine metalworkers of the tribe of Burgeck make iron into figures of people, beasts, and spirits. They have made platters to be struck for sound and there is at least one flute. Any of these things may travel outward on a pack train of trade. Perhaps some already have but, as far as I know now, it all still remains within Burgeck Tribe.
"Locally, the Burgeck use iron mostly for its weight. Hopefully we will improve on that in the near future.
"I think the words of pottery have already had the effect you describe, Demon. Any person with a complaint may ask one who writes to put their complaint in clay as a favor to be repaid. Then they may fire that clay, and that is to many a satisfaction of sorts. Their words are heard by the clay itself and by any who may read it. I can easily see how that might even apply to one who has gone through all the trouble to travel to my great house. But I think that is somewhat less likely. Still, it may be tested in the future.
"The Free People of the NIne Nations did not know of 'walnuts.' And there have been no nuts found with husks that rot such that the boiling down of them results in the ink you described. The soot ink is readily made. And that ink is of some use as my singers have worked out the making of parchment, after a fashion. It is less fine than the scroll of unknown writing. But with soot ink and pens of quill and reed, words are much more easily written down than they were in clay tablets. Clay remains more readily available, of course. There will not be any ink or parchment made in the smaller villages, I think. And few even of the largest villages will make it after its novelty has worn out.
"Ash glazing is well liked and now a popular way to decorate pottery. The success of salt glazing seems to vary from kiln to kiln. I believe that some of my singers know the reason it works for some and not others. But not all potters care to make the changes that might or might not make salt glazing work for them. The ash is both more readily available than salt and also more easily used.
"I think, Demon, that dogs I keep will benefit more from my prestige than I ever would from theirs. And surely my hoard should not be plundered so frequently that hounds trained for hunting thieves would keep in practice. But I might encourage the keeping of hunting dogs in the small villages around my great house, to a similar end.
"I will send word to the family of Kahl of Lan, concerning the mixing of donkeys and horses. Lan Tribe has few horses. Indeed, only Sleomjash and Tash have horses in great numbers. So it may not benefit them greatly to busy a mare with progeny that will not, in turn, bear further progeny. But they will try it out at the direction of my singers, if they have not already done so by happenstance.
"'Lime to line the crucible, more heat, longer heat, grind up what looked like failed glass and put it in with the next batch, switch up the soda ash and, if all else fails, add more soda ash,' is that it, then? I don't understand why adding more soda ash is a last resort. It seems that if the problem might be that the plants used are not leaving enough soda ash behind then that would be a good thing to vary early on.
"I think the Free People of Burgeck Tribe will need to make a great deal more glass before they will be able to learn to form it into vessels like those you describe. But I will have these techniques known, so that Burgeck will know to what they are working, rather than leaving them satisfied with knapping out small gemstones of glass to set in frippery.
"If ever we find magnetite, I will have a long copper staff erected over a pile of it. And then we will see what comes of that. But magnetite itself remains a mystery, so I do not know if this will come soon, if ever.
"And why does a lodestone turn to align with the pivot stars, if indeed it does?
"The hunters' hand signs are only in use because hunters teach them to youths learning to hunt. And that only occurs because hunters continue to find them to be useful. There are not people who spent so much time around waterfalls that they will teach hand signs to youths learning to do whatever it is that keeps people around waterfalls. And while I take your meaning in the matter of the forge, I do not think there is much needed to be said, there. Like hunters' hand signs, they will not need too many words. My singers will make known that families with deaf people among them might adapt hunters' hand signs. That they might better speak with their loved ones in that way. But I won't be taking myself or my singers away from other tasks to direct our efforts toward building a language that will die out every time I turn my back.
"We have needles, Demon. I used needles of bone and antler before my entombing to fasten leathers to each other with gut drawn thin. Now the people have needles of copper and bronze, as well. And soon they will know of your overcast stitching.
"It is likely too late, already, for some shit pits here and there. My singers will exhort and warn the people against digging down to the water, against digging near water, and against emptying out a pit that has not sat to rot for some time. There is always illness among the people. If there can be less, that will benefit me as it benefits them all.
"You will have to tell me how you imagine ships of metal will stay atop the water. A ship made of godflesh was set against Rorqual, long ago. And She was victorious then. Truly, were I to have my choice from among the living gods, I would be most eager to raise myself to divinity by the flesh of Rorqual, who is greatest and made of the greatness of Bear, Crocodile, and Leopard. But who can meet Her in the underworld where she hides? Better to lay snares for Wolf or Hare. Better to learn if Fish still lives and perhaps draw Her up with the weapons bear made of Uhar, the greatest person, those weapons which slew Crocodile. Perhaps even better to find where Hawk hides among the Fish People and kill Her as any person might be killed. Perhaps better still to find Bear where She sleeps until the end of the world, and see that She never wakes."
[X] [Leave] Go to Burgeck and correct their missteps
We seriously need decent iron.
[X] [Term] 5 years
I consider leaving people without direction for too long as obviously undesirable.
[X] [Reply] There is a new idea: If Servant and Huo share the same solution, then the solution is undisputably valid, but if they don't come to an agreement they could send the petitioner to Bianca for "higher ruling", possibly with an need for additional tribute for possibly wasting her time.
[X] [Cacophony] liberty90
I suggest trading glass away for even more bronze, perhaps selling glass to the cities. And perhaps trading some iron away for bronze, as for now, bronze is better.
Water power can also be used to move heavy hammers and crush ore, or help with smithing. This may be even more useful than saws, at least when improved to need fewer repairs.
A word of warning, glass looks valuable now and may be valuable for a while, but it's possible to improve and expand production of glass so greatly that glass would become common and thus uninteresting and cheap. This is another good reason to sell that to foreign traders instead of making your own jewelry from that stuff.
Testing of my plow and the horse collar certainly should be done, yes. There are costs, but the benefits should be bigger than additional costs.
A very long time ago medicine made out of honey and salt was suggested so that diarrhea could be cured more often. This was never mentioned again, but is in use, right?
The cursed woods are our biggest mistake and I feel ashamed about that. Something more needs to be done.
Instead of flags you can simply paint or carve some sort of a symbol designed to show your ownership and rule. This would be much less tempting to reuse, and with time people should understand this custom much better than now.
You said: "The length of my foot is overly short for measuring distances. The number of foot-lengths between villages will be very large and unwieldy". You can simply call 10 000 feet with a new made-up word, like "mile". Talking about 10 or 20 miles is not unwieldy. It's usually the best to have words used for bigger lengths somewhat consistent with smaller ones in such a way, multiples of 10, 100, 1000 and 10 000 are obvious to understand when you know numbers.
I also have a few questions. Could you talk more to your eunuch Servant and ask whether some traders are richer than others in cities and how they manage to be richer without causing discord, or if there is discord how discord is controlled to a manageable size? How their hoards of wealth are guarded? Such information may be valuable. As I said before, some traders with more things than others may help to increase trade and wealth of everyone despite some inequality and risks of discord. It would be good to know how cities deal with these matters.
Some confusion and contradictions between our various Voices may exist because there are at least a dozen of different ways to rule a city or many cities, keep this in mind when hearing us and when considering weird customs of the far-away outsiders.
A bit of advice useful when you want to search for more metal ores: The decent method of cracking big rocks is fire-setting, heating the rock with fire to expand it. Once the rock is heated by fire it is quenched with water to break it.
Freedom of trade: freedom and safety of trade are very important if we want even more traders to travel here with their goods. Your people shouldn't raid or steal from any peaceful travelers or traders that travel inside of the Nine Nations land, even when these are badly armed outsiders. Surely there are enough targets outside, and when travelers feel safe, this brings more trade.
Regardless of travelling outsiders, you should also encourage travel and marriage between various tribes of your Nine Nations, to increase unity, mutual understanding, possibly to unify their identity very slowly and in the more distant future. Maybe ensure that people from different tribes work at roadbuilding projects together, for example, and that your people they can freely and safely travel inside of the Nine Nations.
So, everybody should be able to travel freely and safely.
I will also explain to you something slightly similar to the Army, but more useful to enforce and strengthen your power and your rules and laws. I assure you that NO feudalism is needed for this to work. Servants of the Law, also called "watchmen" or "police" or "guard". These men (and women) are somewhat like soldiers of the army in that that they train to decently defend themselves and receive good weapons from their ruler, but their role is in most ways closer to those that serve, like table-rulers, and they should avoid fighting when possible. Such armed Servants exist to enforce laws and to catch lawbreakers when their ruler is busy with something else, or sometimes to protect singers and table-rulers. They are often trained in the arts of finding stolen goods or bodies of murdered people, learn what to ask people to determine who is guilty of such crimes, and where criminals are likely to escape or hide; how to recognize and track law-breakers like hunters track animals. The best and the most important among such investigators are called "inquisitors". As you once said there were, thankfully very rare, cases when your singers mysteriously vanished, and outsiders tried to steal from you, so maybe you can see how this could be useful. Perhaps they could even end family feuds without wasting your time.
Even if you decide that such armed servants to enforce laws are not needed among your people, you could still use a few dozens of them to better protect your great walled house.
Your old idea to raise orphans was interesting, even if singers are proven as more loyal to their task. I think that some orphans could be raised to be armed guards of your great walled home, or another sort of mentioned armed servants. I see also another solution to their need for true families: make them live around your great walled home, like in a very small city, and encourage them to marry between themselves when very young. As adults, they could leave in theory, but in practice, with their own children and families inside of your wall, most would want to remain as Servants, I think.
Besides orphans, I believe that a few youths of the Burgeck tribe could also be persuaded to become your armed servants. It's true that such service and guarding your things brings much less honor than raiding and other tasks of the true and free warrior, but the Burgeck want to please you very much even when you have very weird requests, right? And this sounds more useful to me than priests, for now. Of course your armed servants should obey you and your rules and orders, not the Burgeck leadership, this is the whole point. Armed guards and inquisitors should thus obey your First Singer if such is your will, you need to explain this clearly.
If you could be persuaded for such a course of action, then I suggest creation of a second wall around your Great Home, that would provide double protection for your home and in the future allow new families of your armed servants to settle in a safe walled space around your home but not directly inside of your home.
To enjoy even more safety of your Great Home, heavy gates in your walls should be always guarded by armed servants-guards, and closed for the night.
Like it's the case with singers and table-rulers, nobody should be forced to become one of your guards. As I said, I believe that there are measures to persuade at least a few dozens of young people that it's good to serve you in such a way.
Do not confuse various forms of police - guards, inquisitors, and other armed servants - with the Army. Armed Forces are mainly for conquering outsiders and protecting against foreign invasion, while police exist to serve their ruler, and to protect his property and his laws from disobedience and theft; we can thus say that the Armed Forces are more like full-time warriors, while guards are more like armed servants.
I would argue again that the Armed Forces would be also useful, because if you leave conquering to the many separate tribes of the Nine Nations that is more likely to make mess of things. I believe that it's obvious that one force under your firmer control could deal with this better and make fewer mistakes. But well, as you wish, remember my words for the future at least.
Important curiosity: the detailed shape of the human skin on the human finger is unique for that human, even among twins. Pictures of these, called fingerprints, may be easily formed by ink or other substances transferred from the skin to a relatively smooth surface such as parchment. Human fingerprints are detailed, nearly unique, difficult to alter, and durable over the life of an individual, making them suitable as long-term markers of human identity. Do you want to be sure that a particular parchment was written by a particular table-ruler, that it's not a fraud? Store impressions of their fingerprints, then order them to include fingerprints on the most important of their parchments, at least when it may be important whether they truly wrote things and not somebody else.
Wikipedia
A few pieces of advice so that more of small children could survive: first of all, human breastmilk, at least if the mother is well-feed herself, provides all the energy and nutrients that the infant needs for the first six months of life, and it continues to provide up to half or more of a child's nutritional needs during the second half of the first year, and up to one-third during the second year of life.
When breastmilk is no longer enough to meet the nutritional needs of the infant, unusually well-boiled foods should be slowly added to the diet of a child.
Generally speaking, most children die during their first five years of life, and slower change to a more adult diet should help to reduce that unfortunate waste. Small children are not small adults, bodies of small children are very weak, and germs are even more dangerous than it's usually the case.
I know, you cannot simply order free people how to feed their infants, but you can share wisdom.
And when we talk about children and wisdom, I need to stress again that people should be reasonably nice to children. It's also obviously not something that everyone would obey, but truly, children that are beaten or not cared for properly grow, if they survive, into worse and less useful adults. Most adults are useful enough, you once said, but surely improvements are always nice.
Proposition: encourage and advise people to create bathhouses. A bathhouse is a stone building owned by the whole village, able to be well-heated with chimneys even during winter, where all healthy people can wash themselves and their clothes in warm, well-heated water, if conditions in their own houses are less well-suited for that. A few outhouses for common use could be added outside. Only healthy people should be allowed inside, to not contaminate bathhouse with bad germs. A concrete floor that is clean and can be easily washed would be nice, and of course big containers with frequently changed and heated water. Keeping ill people safely away, bathhouses clean and constantly bringing fresh water and removing dirty water should be custom - I heard once about great lovers of baths, the Romans, but they lacked the germ theory and thus sometimes their bathhouses promoted the spread of illness instead of preventing illness.
Decimal notation: numbers smaller than one often can be conveniently written as zero dot something. For example half of an apple can be written as zero dot five apple. One part in ten can be written as 0.1 . 0.5 when added to 0.5 gives us 1. 0.1 when added to 0.1 gives us 0.2 . One part in hundred would be 0.01.
By the way, I suggest separate symbols for words like "added to" or "multiplied by" or "is equal to". Such words are so often used around numbers that it would be very convenient.
In regards to even more ideas for machines and construction...
A spinning wheel is a simple machine that replaces the earlier method of hand spinning with a spindle. The first stage in mechanizing the process: mounting the spindle horizontally so it could be rotated by a cord (that is rope) encircling a large, hand-driven wheel. The great wheel is an example of this type, where the fibre is held in the left hand and the wheel slowly turned with the right. Holding the fibre at a slight angle to the spindle produces the necessary twist. The spun yarn is then wound onto the spindle by moving it so as to form a right angle with the spindle.
The great wheel is usually over 5 feet in height. The large drive wheel turns the much smaller spindle assembly, with the spindle revolving many times for each turn of the drive wheel.
Windmills and wind power. Windmill harnesses the power of wind and converts it into useful power by means of vanes.
Vane, definition: a broad blade or sail attached to a rotating axis or wheel which is pushed by wind and forms part of a machine or device such as a windmill.
Four vanes are enough. Like two crossed boards, only much wider and curved to be able to catch wind. These vanes create a movement of the axle when turned, the principle is the same as with the waterwheel or even hand-turned or cattle-powered mechanism.
Vanes of the windmill are turned by the wind obviously only when there is strong enough wind. Still, this may be useful to power pumps, on in places very unsuited to waterwheels.
A flange is an external or internal ridge for attachment to another object. Flanged wheels are wheels with a flange on one side to keep the wheels from running off the rails. Wooden rails are basically two wooden planks that keep wheels going the right way, the constant distance between these planks is important. Different planks called rail ties hold the rails upright and keep them spaced to the correct width. Cart with flanged wheels on rails can be used to more easily move loads uphill or downhill for example.
Foundations. A foundation is the lowest part of a building. A building needs a strong foundation if it is to stand for a long time.
To make a foundation, you need to dig a hole in the ground. When the hole is deep enough, it should be filled with a strong, hard material; somewhat like in the case of roads, but deeper. Preferably below the frost line, that is the depth to which the groundwater in soil is expected to freeze during winter. Then build on that, not directly on the soil. This should solve many problems that persist despite arches.
Roofs made out of fired-clay tiles are better, healthier and much safer against risks of fire than usual thatched roofs, though also weight more. Definition, tile: a thin rectangular slab of baked clay or other material, used in overlapping rows for covering roofs.
Do you know how to make big and long four-wheeled carts, known to me as wagons? I can dimly recall that you mentioned "wagons" once, but proper wagons are the most useful with proper roads, so maybe your use of this word was different than mine. But as you now have a few roads, better internal exchange among the Nine Nations would be good.
The main issue is turning of such a long thing, so there is the solution: The front axle assembly of a wagon consists of an axle, a pair of wheels and a round plate with a pin in its centre that sits halfway between the wheels. A round plate with a hole in its centre is located on the underside of the wagon. The plate on the wagon, in turn, sits on the plate on the axle between the wheels. This arrangement allows the axle and wheels to turn horizontally. The pin and hole arrangement could be reversed. The horse harness is attached to this assembly. To enable the wagon to turn in as little space as possible, the front pair of wheels are often made smaller than the rear pair to allow them to turn close under the vehicle sides.
Wagons may be pulled by one animal or by several, often in pairs. Horse collars should be included. Truly great amount of goods can be transported. Wagon can be, for example, 20 feet long.
Brakes, things used to slow down wagons when moving downhill, can be a block of wood with a lever that allow to hold it against the wheel when wagon needs to slow or stop.
Demon, if you like bronze more than iron, and at our current shitty quality of ironmaking this may be even sensible, then I assure you that even production of such iron can offer us more bronze - by selling iron in exchange for bronze or tin.
I think that foreginers-outsiders would believe our iron to be like much worse meteroic iron. I mean, not forever, but for many years. What reason would they have to suspect soon that we are able to produce iron from rocks?
I truly think that we should sell some of that shitty stuff for a very overpriced prices as long as we can. Of course we should also improve our ironmaking to be better.
Demon. I also see a contradiction, at first you point out to me that mass-production of glass may be impossible for hundreds of years, and then you suggest... glass greenhouses. A few glass windows, to allow light inside of the building without allowing heat to escape during winter, may be possible if we explain how to make reasonably flat and transparent glass, but whole houses made out of glass? For growing vegetables? Eeeeew... I don't think so, i mean not now and not for a long time.
Gnarker, there are some good points in your whisper words that you want to say louder. But many of your words would be more applicable to cities and empires where wealth inequality exist, and laws to protect the rich and limit discord that come with inequalities of wealth are enforced by the city watchmen or something like that.
In the villages of the Nine Nations, and we have no cities mind you, there is no police or the inquisition or anything like that currently and it's simply a custom that theft of personal possessions is punished with beating, sometimes to death and sometimes no. This is why Bianca likes to extract all gold, silver and wealth as a tribute for her great hoard, or recently to sell for more useful tools. She does so not because she loves to sit on silver, but because among her Free People this limits theft, beatings, and bloody family feuds.
There are no cases when somebody wanted to steal food in order to feed his starving family I think, unless everybody around also starved, as in her villages granaries are owned communally and food is distributed. Newly introduced machinery, like monjolo - that is primitive water hammer to crush grains - are also owned by the whole village in her tribes, not by individual rich people.
I had made a slightly similar mistake at first, it seems to me that you, like me, understand more customs of the city people than customs of the Free People. Bianca said once that some of us can understand mostly "meek people" and servants, and she may be partially right.
Our understanding of magic is even worse, though. We certainly should be ashamed about burning of the Forest People, this can cause problems for hundreds of years, yes. I don't believe that we had any slaves made from the Forest people, they would be very poor slaves.
On the other hand, Daemon and his words that we should be "spreading out our territory away" as fast possible because of the haunted forest is probably overdramatic. It's a slowly growing problem, not something that can eat us during the next 20 years.
Even small greenhouse looks to me as secondary concern when we are still unable to make even a few small glass windows to retain heat but allow light to enter buidings during winter. Flat and reasonably transparent to light glass in itself is much harder than glass cups and bottles, and glass cups are harder than glass ingots.
For now the "Free People" of Bianca think about making outsider tribes permanently tributary, not about conquering cities. Her control is far from direct. I try to slowly change that for many turns now.
Better create the inquisition, or her own guard, or both, or something. Nobody expects the inquisition, after all. More seriously: centralize power.
Conquest of cities, as opposed to sacking one or two, is not even under consideration, Demon. Creation of armed servants-guards and for example a very small town of Bianca's table-rulers and armed servants around her Great Home, sounds like something that may be plausible if we persuade her.
No, her Free People consider "conquering" tribes around by making these tribes permanently tributary, not administering any far-away cities. Discussions about this were mentioned. Administering cities is not even under consideration.
I have spoken with some of the chieftains about 'conquest.' They know tribute, of course, and their tribes have collected it from outsiders. There is some interest in ranging farther and collecting greater tribute, even in setting one outsider tribe to always and forever pay tribute to them. Some summer, perhaps soon, one or more of them will go out to see about it. I don't know if they'll find sense in taking those paying tribute with them out to collect tribute from others. But I can allow them to make that choice themselves. I will tell them about it.
Cities are far away. Conquer a city and try to rule from said city, and any control over current Nine Nations land, all of our improvements, slowly starting ironmaking included, would collapse (into the most dangerous barbarian tribes ever). Far away, no road links nor possibility to build these in any sensible time, tons of tribes in between.
There are no cities around and "pretyranny" option is about stuff around, not cities.
Do you seriously think that, say, you can have tribes in one land, conquer a city literally half of continent away, and then rule your old homeland from such enormously distant capital city with literally no road and hostile tribes in between?
This is not even considered at all. Pretyranny tour is about tribes around and tribute.
I could travel among the people around the lands of the Nine Nations
And... Demon... I had many dreams/memories/something about a weird world where World Health Organization, very reputable and scientific one, declared 32 feet as safe distance between outhouses and wells. Adjust that to 40 if you want to be safer, but one hundred? What? This is crazy. Besides. Why exactly bathhouses would waste resources? We need people healthy.
This disinformation feels to me almost like sabotage. Issue not needed law about 100 feet distance, and you discourage people from outhouses use and end with open defecation problem existing forever and THIS would be health issue.
I know what would be great to protect property against theft. Locks. Now, most of my fellow Voices probably think about complicated and small metal things that are decades if not centuries beyond Bianca's craftsmen, but this is a bad line of thinking. Primitive wooden locks are possible. Very big mechanisms, but good enough to close doors in a way that would allow only semi-unique key to open these, at least without lenghty and loud destruction with an axe.
I'm not sure that I'm good enough to explain details, would somebody like to do that?
Well, let's at least try.
The earliest door lock consisted of a wooden crossbar on two wooden brackets mounted on the door and the door frame. The next stage in development was the use of a key.
Since barred doors could only be locked from within, the next improvement was a wooden lock with a short beam, or bolt, outside the door.
The beam was drawn aside with a key of the same material. The key's job was to lift the tumblers that held the beam or bolt in place. The bolt was opened or closed when its free end was pushed by the key into or out of a wooden guide in the door frame.
Tumbler, meaning of a word: a pivoted piece in a lock that holds the bolt until lifted by a key.
Or to cite explanation from another source: Wooden pin lock consisted of a bolt, door fixture or attachment, and key. When the key was inserted, pins/tumblers within the fixture were lifted out of drilled holes within the bolt, allowing it to move. When the key was removed, the pins fell part-way into the bolt, preventing movement.
In its simplest implementation, a key operates one lock or set of locks that are keyed alike, a lock/key system where each uniquely crafted lock requires unique key crafted to fit properly only in said lock and no other.
"Already the free people of Lan and Naumo and even of Gawdtha have taken glass on journeys to bring back goods from distant places. And much of what the bring back is bronze. Though the Gawdtha are less inclined to trade and more greatly interested in joining strangers from far away into their marriages.
"There are already greater monjolo that crush ore. They would be more popular, I think, were it not that breaking rock also breaks monjolo, eventually. It is the same with working metal or driving slag from a bloom.
"I will keep this crown because it pleases me to do so, Black Cat, and I will continue to do so until it does not. It is well made and a credit to its crafter, even if glass becomes 'uninteresting and cheap' at some future time. For now the maker of the crown lives and is honored by my favor on her work.
"The wide-furrow plow and horse collar are, as you may have said, a good fit for each other, and for the land. The use of each has spread. And ahead of them, my singers tell of the shield-behind-the-knife and the chariot plow, to stir up from the people a willingness to or even eagerness to make the change. Many years will pass before even a part of the people have cast aside their old plows. But the development is not ill-received.
"Similarly, the use of honey and salt for watery bowels is believed to save the lives of some children. As with other matters -- though years have passed -- it is not in use in all places. Still, it is used and it does seem to help.
"Black Cat, the Free people of the Nine Nations mark their lands by their defense of them. And The Nine Nations are mine. Should they place carvings of my head at the edges of their lands? Should they carve my distinctive face into large stones? I think it would be most useful for them to have flags or marks of their own, so that there might be less disorder between them. But flags do not last long and remain a waste of cloth if they only stand out at the edge of the lands of one family or tribe or another.
"Since last we spoke, Black Cat, I have learned that the layers of roads have, over the years, taken to measuring road in scores of roadbrick carts. This is how they measure their progress and how they anticipate how far they will get. A cart, drawn by oxen or pushed by hand, cannot be loaded with too many bricks before its axel will break on some jolt. So one cartload of roadbrick only covers about three times the length of the cart. Each time twenty carts of brick are laid down, they layers of roads paint one brick with a bright color and over that, in white, the number of painted bricks between that brick and the last village.
"There may be fewer than 20 painted bricks between villages and there may be more than fifty, though that is less common.
"Oh, I already know how Servant answers those questions. When he first came here, he thought discord to be the natural state of people who lack virtue. Then he came to think unrest in the cities was due to bad rulers. And that is mostly what he says now, nearly ten years after he was first brought to me. Servant has told me that he knew of no hoard as great as mine. He believes there is no hoard in the world right now that is greater. I think some god might have gathered more from more numerous followers. And I think some monstrous beast may have gathered together more, perhaps, somewhere far away, perhaps by plundering over the course of more centuries than have passed since I escape my intended tomb.
"Discord in the cities is controlled by warriors going among the disorderly and striking them until they submit. And when the disorder is greater than the warriors, the ruler falls. Perhaps another rises, or perhaps the city is then poorly defended and a neighbor comes along to smash them down, take their goods and livestock, and enslave the people.
"It is a poor system and I want no part of it in my lands.
"The people do use firesetting to break up rocks. Often enough, rock walls will break without needing water. The fire itself, when hot enough, will break them up.
"How, Black Cat, do you propose I go about preventing the warriors of the Free People of the Nine Nations from raiding traveling traders? Unless they take bonds of the traders, there is no one to say the warriors did not raid neighbors who raided traders. I will direct my singers to encourage dealing as fairly with traders as they deal with us. But I don't see why the people would accept anything further. Traveling traders look to rob their hosts. Their host should look to rob them right back.
"The Nine Nations already mingle between each other. People do not marry into the family of their mother's marriage or of their mother's mother's marriage. People do, not too uncommonly, join marriages in other tribes. And only the people of Burgeck and Tash Tribes do not join people from outside the Nine Nations into their marriages. And the people of Gawdtha and Lan Tribes seek outsiders to join to their marriages with noteworthy enthusiasm.
"As you have said, this brings the people together. It has been essential to tying Sleomjash to the Nine Nations, where once they stood separately.
"If my own presence does not dissuade the Free People from acting poorly at my great house, I do not know that some double-handful of chosen will make any difference, Black Cat. And what business is it of warriors, even of the chosen in finding lies? Surely that is the business of wise folk, likely elders. If my singers and my table-rulers are not safe among the people, calling for chosen to walk beside them as shields or behind them as inquisitive avengers is unlikely, it seems to be, to lessen the discord that already made them unsafe.
"Singers die for their own mistakes. And singers die for my mistakes. And singers die to happenstance, misadventure, and outsider malice. If that last were most common, I could see the need for your watchful inquisition. But it is not.
"Setting the people against the people will not limit discord among the people, it seems to me. It will, instead, nurture that discord and make it grow greater.
"For most, there is more to family than a new marriage. I think some of you voices do not marry. Perhaps you are more like my singers in that way. I think, though, some of you voices are not people like the Fisher People, Bear's People, the Forest People, Giants, lesser giants, or even like the First People, now long gone.
"It is uncommon for a marriage which breaks away from their family to go not to another family but to start off on their own. Even when new villages start, the first people there nearly always call themselves still members of the family they had moved away from.
"I can offer a great many things, Black Cat. But I cannot offer an orphan a family. One orphan marrying another does a marriage make, though a meager one. But a family of two is almost no family at all. Surely any who can stand so little in the way of family could not stand to grow their company into the sort of family most people need. And it seems to me a pointless cruelty to direct the very young into such marriages of dust and dim light without a family to guide, support, and nurture them. The loyalty of those who are incapable due to misery and confusion is worth little to me.
"I would be better off telling a cohort of orphans that they are a family. And this I have done in the past. And their loyalty to me and to each other was not weak. But without the experience and understanding of family elders, they wasted a great deal of their passion and even their individual credibility on matters elders would have guided them from. In the end, the only such trial which survived as a family was made of people more loyal to each other than to me. They joined to Eppam after some time. And though their progeny may still be around, their family is not. It broke up a few generations later, as families sometimes do. It's marriages scattered into other, greater families.
"I do find the trick you propose that I pull over Burgeck Tribe to be worth laughter long and full. Steal the most promising warriors in their youth? Hilarious! And, yes, that might be of greater use than a priesthood. But what use is a priesthood, really? Oh, no. This is rich. I can tell the Burgeck to dedicate some of their warrior youth to my service. Yes. And the youth will do it for the sake of their elders' wishes. Yes. And then I can instruct them to watch over my singers and table-rulers and…
"Wait. Hold a breath. Then the warriors of Burgeck -- young and unblooded and certainly unchosen though they may be -- will be raised over the other tribes so that they can protect my singers and table-rulers within the lands of those other tribes.
"No, Black Cat. As fond as I am of throwing the fawnings of Burgeck in their faces, this jest would only lead to discord between the tribes. My amusement is not, in this case, worth the trouble it will cause me later.
"I do like the plan of a second wall. It will be a long wall, all around the lands around my great house. Like the wall of a city, even.
"But what need is there for guards at the gate of the wall that surrounds the land around my great and walled house, though? You must explain to me what these people will do while they stand at the gate from its opening in the morning until its closing at dusk. You must explain what they are guarding against, and what actions they might take. Are they there only to close the gate? Could not any people from within or without the walled lands close the gate if it should need closing?
"I think the matter of the lines on fingers and hands is a matter for my singers and table-rulers and not for Burgeck tribe. I will have these facts recorded in the pottery words and we will see if anything can be made of them.
"I think there are gaps missing in what you have said of the needs of infants, Black Cat, like a passage on five tablets that is missing the second and fourth.
"When milk is lacking, others in the mother's marriage or family will nurse. And when a child has lived so many months -- perhaps it is six as you say -- the adults of the mother's marriage pass chewed food to the child from their mouths. And this is done until the child has the teeth to chew food themselves. What is the purpose of over-boiling the food passed to them?
"If there are some foods that should be fed to no babe, tell me what foods those are. And if there are some foods of special benefit to small children, tell me too of those. It does much less good to tell me that some are beneficial and some are not. That much is already known to the wise folk. Though, hmm… Perhaps this is another topic on which the words of the wise should be collected in one place.
"There is a hardening that comes of rough treatment. It may be true that many of the greatest of the chosen were much loved by some or all of their mother's marriage. And it may be known that untrustworthy people often grow from untrustworthy children, and are thereby more beaten than others. But like the livestock the people keep, it does no good to be overgentle with children. A dog or a ram or a child may be spoiled by leaving their misbehavior unchecked while they are still growing.
"Children are cruel to each other, as are adults. What kindness is it to raise them unprepared for life?
"I will have the Burgeck build the common bath you describe. It may be that I will only direct them to do this because it pleases me to pile more and more demands on them. When they are overwhelmed, it is so pleasing to watch them stumble as they struggle at once to not refuse me and not mislead me regarding their abilities.
"Although I don't see the purpose, in particular, I will pass your advice on notations to my table-rulers.
"I think I can understand the workings of the wheel you describe. This machine of yours is meant to allow the spinner to turn their spindle very quickly with only one hand, while the other holds the strand. And then I think you mean that the strand is held one way for twisting and another for winding, though that is not so clear. As with many other things, I will have one built here at my great house and we shall see its use.
"And, oh, good. Another task for Burgeck to struggle with. A wheel turned by the wind, to the same end as any wheel turned by water. But water only passes over part of the wheel, while the wind surely hits all sides. Should a lean-to cover half of the wheel or more? But what of those times when the wind comes from a different angle?
"So you mean a cart to only ever travel on these rails, since surely its wheel flanges would break against the ground if it were not on the rail. But the pair of rails and the cart are built so that in one place a load may be moved up or down an incline without slipping to the sides. I suppose I can see some cases where that might be worth the bother, such as the great work pits from which copper ore is gathered. But even for those I think it not worth the trouble. Tell me when you think flanged wheels and rails will help, in specific?
"Roadbrick carts are particular to the building of roads. And they are why bricks must be brought from the previous village and cannot be brought from the next. I will have the layers of roads asked if these flanges and rails might work for them. However, that would mean one cart to bring the bricks to one end of the slope, all the work to move the roadbrick to the flanged cart, and then all that work again at the other end of the slope. Though, at least, the empty roadbrick cart is likely easily moved along the slope. Perhaps even a partially loaded roadbrick cart would traverse the slope so much more easily that the flanged cart and rails are worth the bother.
"I will tell the Burgeck that their falling arched roofs are likely due to not digging deeply enough and not laying a strong enough founding. Since the building of icehalls involves digging into hillsides in any case, my singers will only need to promote more digging. All of this will make a greater labor of any of these things. But if an icehall or a stone house stands for long enough it will be worth the labor of the Free People of the Nine Nations. The same may be said for thin bricks for roofing.
"How do the plates turn against each other with all the weight of the wagon atop them, Black Cat? I take your meaning, of course, that it is valuable to be able to turn a long wagon. And I think I understand what you mean about the wheels, though they are the size the are for reasons, I'm am sure. But still, would not the upper and lower plate seize against each other?
"A break lever is a fine idea, and I will speak it to the layers of roads.
"You are right, Black Cat, that very few steal food. It does happen, at times, that one hunter or another brings back an exceptional kill and that some choice part does not go to the person to whom the hunter wills it ought. This is addressed like the theft of a bauble. And it occurs for the same reasons. It is not due to starvation.
"When the people starve, they do so together, more or less. It has not escaped my notice that more people are beaten to death or cast out in winter when food is scarce. The people do not need fancy notations of clay or ink to count. They know when there is not enough. And they know how to bend the laws and traditions to suit their needs, too. So long as everyone who survives tells the same tale, nothing too much comes of it.
"Of course, that is not what always happens. And when there is plenty again one or more people may be assigned special blame by their village, or their family, or the other people of their marriage. Such is the way of things.
"And, yes, there are no slaves made of the Forest People. It is not because they are ill suited to service. No Forest Person should be taken as a slave or even captive for overlong because the spirits of their ancestors will come for them. Those spirits are ever watchful over the Forest People. And they are more trouble than the labors of Forest People are worth.
"I do not understand your tumblers and beams, Back Cat. If a key can lift the tumblers, is it meant to be so fine that a person could not reach in and lift them? If so, the tumblers would need to be very light, also, or the key would break rather than turn them. So how do light tumblers hold the beam? This sounds like something very clever that can be replaced with a small dog. But I do thank you for your words, voice."
Well met again Bianca, this is the voice of Dragon. I will again try to answer your questions, and in the end give my advise on matters at hand.
About cloth, weaving etc..
I had a feeling you might not have as wide cloth as in my description, and using smaller pieces. All fabrics in the same direction will be fine until you master the wider loom that I will try to explain. First to your easier question:
The fraying of the edge of the fabric: It is true that fabric frays when cut and used, the amount of fraying depends on your weave (the pattern your threads goes in the fabric, tough most of them fray at least a little). To protect your clothes from this you should do something called hemming. The idea is to fold the edge of the fabric first once and then again so that the edge of the fabric is hidden inside the second fold. This is then sewn fast like this with a stitch you want, for example putting the thread just half way trough the the outermost layer will make the seam hidden. Also when sewing seams in your fabric they will be more durable if both edges of the fabric are fastened. So when sewing a seam you could first sew the seam leaving some edge to the both fabrics and then turn both edges flat on their pieces and sew them either turned like in the hem or unturned, this will lessen fraying. You can use something flat and hard and smooth like a slip of smoothed horn or bone to drag over the fold of the fabric to make it fold more sharply.
Keep in mind that these explanations are made with the tough of only one layer of fabric, but you can also fold several layers together. In the gambeson with multiple layers it might be enough to turn the outer layer/layers around the rest instead of turning all to not get too thick of a seam. The important thing is just to hide and fasten all the edges of the fabric.
A hem could be at least as wide as your smaller fingers, but it can be even wider, some extra fabric in hems and seams will make it possible to make clothes bigger when needed by opening and moving the seams, or they can be moved inward to make them smaller.
I do not know of your knitted leggings, if this word is the same as for us, made from loops with long needles without holes. Similar have been used where I come from for smaller things like socks, mittens and hats, but not for leggings. Won't it unravel from a hole the first time you fall and scrape a hole in the fabric?
More than knitting for the socks and things there have been used a method called "needle-binding", as a knitted thing will start to unravel when broken, where a needle-bound wont, this I think will however bee a lesson for another time.
I think the loom you are describing is something I would call a backstrap loom, which is nice in the way that you can move it easily, but the fabric you get is not that wide. There is many possible looms, but I have chosen one to try to describe called the Warp-Weighted loom, it is a standing frame and hard to move but you can get fabric as wide as a man is long. There are other looms as well, but I chose this as it wont take up too much room and is still easy to explain with only words and no pictures.
I will now try to explain a new loom called a Warp-Weighted loom: This is a upright standing loom, that you can not really move around with you as the one you have had before, but it will make it possible for you to make bigger. fabrics. I am not an expert on weaving myself, so bear with me, and ask your weavers and builders for help in trying to interpret my instructions.
I will first define some words in the instruction, so we talk about the same part, and for my fellow voices to understand what I am saying too: Warp: The support threads, that goes in the direction of the fabric, these will go vertically and have weights in the lover end to keep them taunt. Weft: The threads that is passed between the warp to get fabric, these will go horizontally.
Next the pieces of the frame: Beam: This is maybe the hardest piece to construct. The beam will be lying Horizontally highest up in the frame. The length of this will decide on how wide the fabric can become, I suggest not making your first try more than twice the width of your current loom, and then make wider ones when you see if you get the design working. In wide fabrics you might need more than one weaver.
To make the beam you take a even width piece of wood, around the width of the arm, so that it is wide enough to not bend from the weight of the fabric but thin enough so that it is possible to lift. then, not on all of the width you want to make a channel.
Into the channel you want to fasten a much thinner piece of wood, so make the size of it so that the edge of this next piece fits but is not loose. This thin thing should have holes drilled to it evenly. in the other edge. Now fasten the thin piece of wood into the beam so that you can see both ends of the holes (they should not get into the beam). Use glue to hold this in place.
If you don't want to fasten pieces into each other with glue, you can instead make the form of the beam so that it is thinner in the other edge, instead of completely round, we call this a teardrop shape. and drill the holes in this thinner part, the holes will be a bit deeper so will think the one from two pieces will be easier to use. The width of the area with holes will be the width of the fabric you will be able to use
Close to both ends of the beam you could make thinner parts to make the beam not slide to the side. These will go into hooks on the uprights which I will explain next. These is not on every design I have seen so they are not mandatory, but it will make everything more stable.
When weaving you might want longer things than here, that is achieved by wrapping the ready made fabric around the beam, to do this you want to fasten a rod to the end/ends of the beam, this way the beam will not be able to turn by itself as the rod will stop it fro rolling by touching the wall.
The Uprights: You need 2 of these. They will be the vertically standing beams of your loom, the length depends on how high loom you want and how big an angle they will have when they lean. Keep in mind you want to be able to reach the top. And making a loom shorter than a man is not really useful. If you do not need to move the loom put the lover ends of the uprights into the ground, or earth floor of the house, make the lower end so that wen they slightly lean against the wall the bottom end is flat on the ground.
The thickness of these can be again like an arm, but they can be wider. They should not bend under the weight of the beam and a fabric hanging from the beam.
Now on the top of the Uprights make by fastening some pieces of woods "hooks" where the beam can rest, So that when the uprights are leaning against the wall you can put the beam highest up resting on the hooks. If you made the beam have thinner part close to the edges these should go into the hooks.
Next make some holes in the upright, starting from a bit under the hooks with a bit less of a foot length distance of each other. It is important that the hooks and the holes are on the same heights on both of the uprights and facing outward from the wall.
Now to get some stability take a rod of wood, do not have to be as thick as the other beams, take a piece that is around as long as the beam and fasten it to the uprights around 1.5 foot from the ground. It should be fastened so that the uprights are on the same distance of each other here at the bottom as they are at the top with the beam resting on them. This is called the Shed Rod
Next let's get back to the holes in the upright: You want to make some Heddle rod supports; The hole in the upright should be big enough for this to fit.
Make a piece of wood that is round in the other end to fit the hole in the upright and in the other end is of a shape so that when there is one of these in both sides of the upright on the same height they can keep a rod in place.. You might want more than 2 of these but you do not need to fasten them all, they should be possible to move from one hole to another, to get it on different heights. Now you can put a Heddle rod, that is just a rod of wood, laying from one support to another. The heddle rod support should have more than one notch where the heddle rod can lie, so that the threads do not pull it closer. In an easy weave it is enough wit just close to the uprights and farther from the uprights, but to get more interesting weaves for example 3 different distances could be good.
You will still need weights, these can be bags with sand, or burned clay with a hole in the middle or something similar, try to keep all of them of the same weight.
Now when you have a loom, you can warp the loom.
There is many ways to do this, and I am sure your weavers will get a hang of it, as it is not too different from your loom, so I will mostly give some pointers, but not go too much into details.
firstly you want to fasten your warp to the beam, you can sew the warp to the beam using to help the holes you have there, the warp thread should not go trough the holes, instead this should be done with a different thread, you can do this either by sewing the warp or using tablet weaving or similar technique that that you use to make bands with. Just see that they are secure and even.
How the warp is divided depends on your weave. In my instruction I will refer to the basic dividing in 2 way, but in other weaves you can get different nice patterns in the fabric, as your weavers might know.
Now when the top is fastened into beam you want to divide the threads in 2 to the front and back warp the back threads should go behind the shed rod and the front warp in front of it, then weights should be fastened into the threads a weight in a bunch of thread, the bunch of thread should only contain threads from back or from the front (or from one "group" of thread if you use a different pattern with more than 2 groups of threads). The weight should be just over the floor with the rest of the length of the warp knot into a bunch maybe 15-20 threads in one bunch. (The warp can be longer than from the beam to the floor, and needs to be if you want a longer fabric). Then you take a thread, fasten it to the upright and with it "chain the warp" which means you take all back threads and with the thread fasten them evenly and this fastened chain to both ends of the upright (loops around the threads should be enough). This will keep them hanging evenly. Do the same thing to the front group (and all the others you have).
Next you want to fasten the back warp to the heddle beam trough the front warp fasten a chord to every back thread and the other end to the warp. This gives you the second shed.
Now take your weft and pull it between the warp with a shuttle, as in your loom. then moving the heddle rod to a notch farther away from the uprights on the heddle rod supports the threads will switch and you can pull the shuttle trough again. Here as in your weave you want to beat the thread into the wave with a batten or something similar.
When you have woven a bite you can wrap the loom on the beam by turning the beam and thus lifting the weave upward, loosen some more warp from the weights to have them still dangling close to the floor.
if you have problems with this design or any other instructions please try to give as detailed descriptions as possible on the problems for us voices to be able to help.
On the making of thread Black Cat is already explaining to you about the spinning wheel. I would just like to add, that the time when it will really be useful is the second step in the mechanization that is yet not explained. Without going to detail I will just say that it is possible to add a mechanism where pushing with a foot on a piece of wood will make the wheel turn without using a hand to turn it. I will not go into detail on this at this time.
On the matter of Erweh: It is true that he has set himself against you, but still I will advise to use cunning in these matters as much as possible, It seem to have gone well this far.
The dark stones clinging to each other are doing it because of a force we call magnetism, if you try they will probably cling to your iron as well.
On the growing of plants from far away places: When talking about these things it could be good to know about a new concept called "Climate". It is similar to weather but still not. When you talk about weather you talk about the everyday temperature of the day and cloudiness of the sky, like "today the weather is warm and sunny", when talking about climate you talk about how the weather usually are. Like if I have understood correctly you live in a place where the climate is cold snowy winters and warm, but not hot summers with rain quite evenly happening around the year, please correct me if this is not so.
As have been explained some plants might come from a different climate like "warm and wet all year around", and these will not grow well outside in your climate. That is why when getting new seeds trying to get them from similar climates (which yes you can usually find west and east more than in the south). Also usually plants from colder climates is easier to get growing in yours than those from warmer.
I can sadly not help you with the secrets of glass, but when you get your glass production working I can give some ideas on how to get plants from warmer climates to grow at your home.
Instead of burning the field after harvest you could also just turn it again and let the germs break down the plant pieces left after the harvest.
The watermill saw: I do not remember what exactly were said by this when it was explained, but making a saw round like a plate or shield with the teeth on its rim could be easier to get working well than the knife -like saw. The saw plate would be spinning all the time in one direction cutting the wood.
On your problems with sailing and boatbuilding: Could you try to give some better description on the issues with the boats so that I can try to help.
If the problem is that the boat falls over try to make it wider and add some heavy stones to the bottom of the boat (under a floor), as to not break your leg on them).
Now to the matters at hand:
[x] [Leave] Go to Burgeck and correct their missteps
But if you have more time than needed, or just want a break from the Burgeck, then travel to other tribes as well. For example checking on the problems with Zouchaud's boats could be worth your while as well.
[x] [Term] 5 years
I would say 5 years is enough for now. After that go back and see how your people are faring, and if all is well you can go away for another 5 years, maybe with a 1-2 year break between.
[X] [Reply] There is a new idea: If Servant and Huo share the same solution, then the solution is undisputably valid, but if they don't come to an agreement they could send the petitioner to Bianca for "higher ruling", possibly with an need for additional tribute for possibly wasting her time.
So have Huo and Servant discuss difficult matters with each other.
- A better mill than the monjolo
- How to fix the glass problems
There is one more thing that I, Dragon wich to know. There seems to be much disagreement between the voices on the distanse op laces in and around the nine nations. Could you Bianca, when the chariot wheel counter give us the distances from end to end of the nine nation as well as the distances between the biggest villages of all tribes or at least the distance from those to your home.
How far in your distance measure can a person travel at a normal phase in one day. And how many days of travel did it take to get to the closest city that your traveler visited.
Seems there is much debate on things that you could get an answer on by asking.
Also would people be interested in an commonly updated notesheet or something to store information on things said and techniques tought? Some wersion of etherpad or something?
This is my opinion as well, war is a waste of lives and resources. And subjects that have been forsed to be subjects with war won't usually be good subjects
"Thank you, Dragon. I am sure that the weavers will solve the issue of the excessive stacking of hemmed edges within the gambeson. Already to me it seems it could be solved by arranging them like steps cut into a hill. The edge will still be thicker than the rest of the gambeson, but not three times thicker.
"Yes, leggings will suffer if a hole goes unattended. But they keep much more heat in than a robe or skirt. Perhaps we are speaking of the same matter.
"I think this weighted-warp loom of yours is a grand thing, Dragon. Already, the weavers test their limits with width from time to time for greater works. Now, I see little reason why there should be any limit beyond those of the wood from which the loom is made. The shuttle can be pushed through any length of heddle by a long enough pole, yes? Or, no… Hmm. The problem may be battening the weft in. I suppose the weaver could reach into the shed in the middle to batten or to move the shuttle, but that sounds like it would cause more trouble that it would solve. It would be battened by comb, that's simple enough. Still, even though a great deal of time would be required, fabric of absolutely wondrous width might be made. As you say, as wide as a man is tall. Amazing.
"And freeing both hands from the spinning of thread is similarly amazing. Once our spinning wheels are well understood, I will task Burgeck with making the wheel spin by foot if it is not already clear how it ought to be done.
"No, you are right. There may be rain at any time that it is not so cold that there is snow instead. Summers are warm and winters are cold. If there is a place where it is warm and wet all year round, do they have two harvests? Is this the nature of the 'winter wheat' mentioned by other voices?
"Is it not easier to burn the field than it is to till the ground in autumn? Tell me, Dragon, the benefit of not burning the fields before winter. The people will want to know, too.
"Boats have tipped, yes. At times a sail catches the wind when the boat and the people are not ready, too. This can throw beams around and even knock people overboard. There are also the normal hazards of the sea, which break up boats and such.
"The surveying of distances has been a concern of the layers of roads, and they have not yet found much need for making a counting chariot to mark distances. There are enough villages everywhere. Each tribes' largest village is probably about a day away from the largest village of another tribe, so long as the road between them is finished and the weather is favorable. The nearest large village to my great house is of Burgeck tribe and about a day's travel from here. Along the new roads, my singers may pass somewhat more than two hundred painted bricks each day. The journey to Wrul is one of many days, tens of days."
[X] [Leave] Pretyranny Tour
Pretyranny is the BEST Tyranny
[X] [Term] 10 years
Take some time to make good study of what other do differently.
[X] [Reply] "Here is a stone. Speak to it for all the good it will do you."
Choose a small stone and learn throw it directly at the forehead fast enough that it cannot be dodged. At least then you get to practice a valuable skill.
EDIT : See newer post
[X] [Cacophony] Ciber
Now what lessons should you learn...
...The tribe of Peace could prove a turn.
Long Long ago and far far away.
A turn of the ages. Early Autumn I'd say.
Magic was weak. Spirits were strong.
But not in the way you've used all along.
Warriors strength. Warriors passion.
Let loose to run wild, ferocious & crashin.
All tribes thought themselves wild & free.
Still they gave tribute. still they bent knee.
To a tribe on the mountain. The Ones Who Bring Peace.
The tribes chafed & the burnt, furrowed their brow.
For the tribe on the mountain had now warriors now.
Nor for that matter did any recall.
Did the tribe on the mountain have any warriors...
...At All?
Once a generation, this story repeats.
The young ones rise up, getting stomped into meats.
Looks like I ran out of rhymes...
The Ones Who Bring Peace had no warriors. In fact, their tribe had a strict taboo against violence of any kind ... by the living. With the vast tributes of their subjugated tribes, the Peace were free to spend nearly their entire lives perfecting the art of meditation. There was also a bunch of useless ritual and tradition built up around the practice, but that's humans for ya. Anyway, meditation is a practice focused mind exercises that can help deal with strong emotions, improve memory, allow active control of the mechanisms of thought, and provide conscious control of bodily functions that are normally automatic. Master mediators can deaden themselves to pain, stop their heart, and control body temperature to the point of self combustion.
None of that sounds worth a lifetime of effort or a lesson does it?
The secret of the Peace was that through focused meditation they could control the type of spirit created upon death. If you wronged them, one of their tribe could walk up, apologize, and burst into flame. Remaining entirely calm and focused on their desired outcome as they burned to death. Then their spirit emerges, and burns exactly one in every ten of your tribes-people to death.
Of course this was for last Autumn, and you know how the Vis varies over such times. Still, I think that putting some effort into introducing meditation could improve the utility of your peoples spirits, and people who engage in regular meditation report being more satisfied with their life.
There are many different paths in meditation, but the simplest is to find a quiet place and just clear the mind. Focus on breathing. Not on the motion of the chest, but on the subtle sensations of breathing. The movement of air over skin and the like.
Another path if mindfulness. Instead of quieting you thoughts, you try to sort of detach from them. Notice yourself noticing things is the theme.
Some people have better results while perfectly still, while others prefer gentle repetitive movements.
Either way, it is silly to go through any (non-trivia) effort keeping secrets. Our whole thing is that we are a veritable FONT of new secrets. Each one building upon the last. Any one secret is thus inconsequential. In fact, it benefits us in the long one for these secrets to spread because it gives us a larger base to build upon. For instance, large deposits of Tin & Copper tend to be separated by a great distance, so the best long term way to get more bronze is to promote the spread of better mining techniques to these far off places, while supporting a strong network of traders who can get the goods back to you.
Wow. None of you guys have ANY idea how wire is actually made.
Wire Drawing :
You begin by cutting strips from a sheet of metal. Then draw those strips through a succession of ever smaller holes in a drawing plate until they are the desired size. The drawing plate is typically made of the hardest available substance. Often high carbon tool steel or even diamond for extremely small wires. To fit the wire into the next smaller hole you hammer it into shape. The holes in the drawing plate need to be tapered and well lubricated for best results. Drawing can be made easier by heating the wire, but cold working the metal results in a stronger product.
Sluice :
Regardless, wire mesh is not a great way to sort sand. For coarse filtering just run through loosely woven baskets. To finely separate your sand by particle size, use something like a gold sluice. A flat sided trough with regularly bumps on the bottom through which a mixture of water and sand is directed. The water should flow from a stream into a settling tank where it comes almost to a standstill, allowing any foreign particles suspended in the water to settle out. The the water is let out through an outlet half way down the tank walls with a gate to precisely control the waters speed. A hopper above this inflow feeds the sand we wish to filter.
By carefully controlling the inflow of water and sand, you can cause heavier particles to sink and collect on the bumps, while lighter particles are carried further before being deposited. Also useful for concentrating metals from finely crushed ores.
[Information Dump : Geographic Information]
Here is what we know of the world from previous conversations:
The Nine Nations consist of aproximately 350 villages with a thousand people each.
To the west of the Nine Nations lies the Sea, bordered by the Zouchaud and Naumo tribes. Possibly far to the west past the sea lies the possibly island fortress city of Enonl.
To the north are a people who trade fine clear stones. Possibly diamonds? Some ways beyond them is a tribe of lesser giants whom live along the sea.
The east is uncertain. The Galugr tribe comes from far the the east where they live in great woodlands.
To the south is the Vile Forest. Bordered by the Galugr tribe who are in turn bordered by the Eppam and Sleomjash.
I believe that the Chaussow border the Nine Nations to the south-east, but do not know which nation.
Beyond the Vile Forest are the remaining Forest People, who are traders had to avoid. Possibly by passing through Chaussow land to the east.
South of the Forest people is Wrul on Buraghm River, which I flows either to the north or the south, but must meet with the sea to the west eventually. Further south along this river is the city of Liavint.
From the Tricky Merchant we learned of a city and rivers that I think were either Wrul or Liavint, and that far to the south is the sea.
To the east of Liavint, over some low mountains, is the city of Ekhaicuint at the meeting of the rivers Oasimb and Yont.
[Information Request : Geographic Information]
Am I correct that the sea lies to the west, the Vile Forrest to the south, and that the Chaussow are to the south-east?
Through what lands does the greatest single river of the Nine Nations flow?
When the peoples who live along the sea travel the coast, in which direction does the land curve?
If I am correct, then the coast to the north should be mostly straight, and that to the south should curve to the west.
During the winters does it become cold enough for sea ice to form?
"A wondrous tale, Poet Voice. I do wonder, though, how the Ones Who Bring Peace managed disputes among themselves. Would the spirit of vengeance burn one in ten members of the family that wronged them? And how many from that family would likewise 'self combust' to enact their vengeance on the family of the first?
"No matter. I do not know the way of this form of witchcraft. And I have my doubts that overmany of the people are capable of learning any witchcraft at all, no matter how much time is available to them. But still, whatever fraction of benefit employed by whatever fraction of the people, would still benefit many or all.
"You voices disputed my own arguments for secrecy when you argued for the written words of tablets and, now, parchment. There is no secrecy of things which are written. One day the words will be read and known.
"I never looked into the craft or 'wires' and, of course, I keep gold and silver out of the hands of the Free People of the Nine Nations as much as possible. But I have had in my hoard -- and may still have -- works of … well if they were hairs of silver and gold they would be quite stout hairs indeed. But otherwise they are fine strands of precious metals, woven into cords or even fabrics.
"And I believe must be some already doing this work with copper. Hold a moment.
"Yes. I have here a braided cord of strands of copper twisted around each other into something like strings. The cords is stiff and I don't know if its maker meant it as anything other than a demonstration of their craft. Looking closely, I see that the individual strands of copper look to have been flat strips, twisted on their own and then pressed by hammer or perhaps rolling plates until they were all up against theirselves.
"So there is some call among the people for making wire. And I will suggest the use of drawing plates and we shall see what comes of it.
"And I will direct Burgeck to build 'sluices' of sand. Though I do not know that they will work at great volume. It seems to me that the higher the 'bump,' the more will catch behind it, even if it be lighter. But low 'bumps' will be overwhelmed by quantity sooner and then even heavy grains will pass by. And if the sluice is made wider then eventually it will be too wide to easily control the rate of the water. How much lightweight sand can a sluice sort out for glass? How much heavy grain of metal ore can it hold back? I suppose the process can be run, the 'bumps' cleared, and the process run again, and again, until satisfactory quantities of whatever are obtained. And perhaps the sorted fine sands may be run through again, to sort them better, like the dewing and redewing of beers?
"Only the laregest villages had close to one thousand people, Poet Voice.. Babes in arms were not counted. But hunters, herd-keepers, and others were who might be away but still call the village home.
"The sea is more to the north than to the west, but yes both the Zouchaud and Naumo tribes are along the seashore. And Enonl is to the west and north, island or no. And yes, to the north beyond the nearest outsiders there are people who trade clear stones for copper and bronze and the craftworks of the Free People of the Nine Nations. And far, far beyond them are lesser giants.
"Some members of the Galugr tribe believe they come from far, far to the east. In time they will likely come to believe that they have always been where they are, unless I have it recorded otherwise, which I have not yet decided.
"The cursed woods are more to the east than the south, but they are south of my great house. The Chaussow are north of the cursed woods and border the Eppam tribe. They once bordered the Gawdtha tribe as well, whose lands are north of Eppam lands. The Forest People have abandoned the woodlands beyond the cursed wood. I do not know where they have gone. But to the south there are Forest People who seem to know of the cursed wood, whether or not they are any of the same Forest People we drove out of it.
"The Buraghm lies to the south and flows to the south. I do not know where it goes. Liavint is further south than Wrul, in truth. East and north of Liavint, Ekaicuint is found. In direct travel, or as direct as the land will allow, Ekaicuint is closer to the lands of the Nine Nations than is Liavint.
"The languages of Liavint and Wrul are known to people of which traders of Lan Tribe already have known. But the sorcerous merchant, that thief, could only have come from farther. Unless, of course, that was just another of his tricks.
"To be direct, no you are not correct. The sea is to the north and west. The cursed woods are to the east and south. The Chaussow are mostly to the east.
"Far away to the west, the land curves to the north, farther still lies Enonl. Easterly, the land is already curving to the north in the lands of the Naumo Tribe.
"As I understand it, the coast is not especially straight anyway. It tucks back on itself in the north and the west and in the far north it turns to the east.
"In particularly cold winters, as we expect to see in the coming years, the seas do freeze. And even when they do not, floating islands of ice of various sizes come from the north."
Hello, fellow questers, I've just yesterday binge-read this quest, and I must say, there's a lot I've learned in this thread. Now, let me try to contribute some
Hello, Bianca, the Undying One. You can call me Dreamer, for I have more interest in knowing what baffles you about the workings of the world -such as what rainbows even are-, and answer most such queries. The answers can be a little too lengthy, but if you ask for it I can try to keep myself from babbling too much. If you don't ask for me to be brief, on the other hand, will mean I'll babble quite a bit.
So, what are you curious about or brings you wonder that you would want me to explain?
Now, even if I do like to talk more about things that interest someone out of wonder, it would be remiss of me to leave without first telling you about useful things. And the useful thing I've decided to share with you in this conversation is a very simple tool named Abacus. The purpose of the Abacus is to make simple math easier.
Imagine a rectangular frame. Divide the space within the frame into two smaller rectangles - but the bigger side of the small rectangles should be the same as the frame. Now imagine 14 side-by-side rods within the frame, the endings of each rod should be connected to bigger sides of the frame. In each rod, there should be seven beads - five of them in the bigger rectangle, and two of them in the smalle rectangle.
That's it for the construction of the tool, now on how to use it. The position of the abacus to the user should be with the bigger rectangle closer to the user. The abacus should be resting on a flat surface. Initially, all the beads should be pressed against the frame (the 5 beads of each rod to the frame closest to the user, and the 2 beads to the frame furthest to the user).
Now that the set-up is done, here's how you use it. The 5 beads of the rod furthest to the right, is worth 1 each. Next rod to the left, each bead is worth 10 each. Next one 100, the next 1000, so on and so forth up to the last rod. On the smaller rectangle, the value of the beads furthest to the right is 5. The next to the left 50, the next 500, the next 5000 and so forth.
As you count, you move the beads towards the division that separates the bigger rectangle and the smaller rectangle. When all the beads of a rod of the biggest rectangle have been 'counted', you can exchange them for one bead, in the same rod, of the smaller rectangle, moving the beads of the bigger rectangle to their initial position and moving one of the beads of the smaller rectangle towards the division. In other words, 5 beads of value 1 are equal to 1 bead of value 5. And when both smaller rectangle beads of a given rod have been counted, you can exchange them for one bead of the biggest rectangle of the next rod to the left. 2 beads of value 5 are the same as one bead of value 10.
While explaining it may seem that the abacus is a useless tool, but believe me, when someone has learned how to use it they can make counts unbelievably faster than counting without it. Especially so if you are dealing with several numbers above 100. The counting of 15834 plus 78125 plus 2415 or other such numbers can be made in less than a minute by an experienced user.
Thank you for hearing me, Bianca - I can call you Bianca without any title, right? I hope I've been useful and I also hope you will speak a little more of things you find yourself curious about even if they appear to have no use.
She said that she is confident the nine nations would be capable of combating a trained, well equipped, force of 20,000 from cities. She also said something like one in five of the population of the nine are warriors.
Assuming she understood that we believe that the city-soldiers are capable of taking down several times their number, and also assuming she underestimates them but still believes that our beliefs have some truth, I would think Bianca thinks that each city-warrior is hypothetically capable of taking down double their number (rather than several times). This would low-ball the number of warriors of the nine nations into 40,000 strong.
Taking into consideration that at least 1 in 5 of the population is made of warriors, then the total population of the nine is around 200,000 ~ 300,000. It may be that more than 1 in five are warriors, but the fact that not all troops could be made to mobilized counteracts it, keeping the math right-ish.
"Dreamer, I wonder about the weakness that afflicts the elderly. I wonder why it is that the accumulation of wisdom is so often matched by a decline in the ability to act forcefully upon it. I wonder about the manner of birds in flight and how I could send warriors on winges against whomever displeases me. I wonder about the minds of all people and how I can tell those who would steal from me from those who would starve first. I wonder about illnesses and infirmary. I wonder at the lameness some are born with and carry all their lives, however short they may be. I wonder why one wound heals and another quietly saps strength as the wounded limb withers away.
"And as much as I find the advice of you voices questionable regarding the topic, I do wonder how I might better exercise my will over the Free People of the Nine Nations.
"Servant and my table-rulers he has trained have well convinced me of the value of swiftly and accurately summing figures. It continues to matter little to my own pursuits. But I will pass the making of your 'abacus' on to the table-rulers and we shall see what they make of it.
"I am called Leader Bianca by my singers and table-rulers and Goddess Bianca the Undying in my singers' songs and by other people who value my favor, Dreamer. You voices may call me Bianca. I do not need flattery from the mad, beset with visions though you may be.
"It would be difficult to call up forty thousand warriors from the Free People of the Nine Nations, Dreamer. I do not know what promises might bring so many. But there might be so many among all the tribes. And perhaps a third or fourth part of that number might have been gathered to attack the Forest People."
Why we want to create tyranny over outsiders? why this talk about conquest? Because Bianca can be evil, soo let's be evil for the sake of evil stuff? stupid. You know what would support her rule better?
Talking with tribes around. EXPLAINING to tribes around reality. its in their best interest to recognize Bianca as their deity, cease raids, allow her singers and table-rulers, give away their gold. NO VIOLENCE NEEDED, why? because the NIne Nations AND her lesser giants are healthier, better feed, and better everything thanks to the wisdom of Bianca. only rule of bianca brings prosperity and only fools cannot see that.
By the way how much spirits can remember from life if anything? Can you fish underworld for spirits of magicians and extract secrets from spirits?
"Some of the tribes have accepted outsiders into themselves in a manner much like you describe, Devil Girl. At times a whole village gathers from itself a tribute to me and submits themselves to one tribe of the Nine Nation which they border, becoming part of that tribe and pledging to the Nine Ways Pact. The tribes themselves do not go seeking villages to join to them because that would be one fewer village they might raid, and because they do not welcome the outsiders -- with the exception of Gawdtha and Lan, of course, who welcome outsiders into their families -- and because their own individual authority in their own tribal council would be weakened. I do not think any of the outsiders near to the lands of the Nine Nations have so much to offer that it would be worth the trouble to expand the Nine Nations into the Ten. Sleomjash brought great value to the Free People of the Nine Nations. And even then it was very difficult to bind them to the greater whole and the greater whole to them.
"Spirits rarely tell secrets from their own lives. There are spirits of secrets, born of the deaths of incorrigible gossips and rumor mongers. But these tell 'secrets' that might not only be widely known, but which might also be false.
"At some rare times when a powerful and learned witch dies, the spirit from which they drew their coercive force will be capable of passing on some portion of that witch's experience. However, these spirits do not give up their lessons easily, often demanding so much of their new oath and binding that the resulting person is more spirit than witch. These creatures are troublesome and have no respect for my authority, power, or station. I rarely tolerate them among the Nine Nations and there are none, now, that I know of. Also, they are invariably cannibals, which causes discord."
So will seeing the Nine Tribes using iron tools themselves, if somewhat more slowly. It does not tell them how to identify the ores, or how to smelt them.
Greetings, Undying One! You may call me Gnarker, he who makes weird sounds, like 'Gnark', or 'Narf!', or 'Lol', or 'Squee', or 'Ni!'
I am a bit surprised that so few of my fellow voices have talked about the Haunted Forest. Personally, I was quite alarmed when I heard about it, as to my understanding if left unchecked, it could very well extinguish the Tribes. I consider it and the actions that led to it to be the greatest mistake of our cooperation so far.
There is a lesson to be learned there, I suppose: We, the voices, do not know anything of magic, save what we either heard from you, or what we made up for our stories or imagined what it might be like. As such, we will tend to forget that it is a factor to consider, or even if not might be wrong in our estimates of how it will act. The only remedy to this would be for you to teach us more of magic, as much as you can, no matter how trivial or tedious or secret you think it, if you are willing of course.
Thankfully, the Galugr already seem to be working on containing it. Nonetheless I would ask you to keep an eye on the situation and keep us informed. I would also ask you to seek out further Lore on places like it, and how they might be contained and removed. Out of curiosity, how did the walls and the clearcuts that have been proposed to contain it work out?
Now, among us voices there has been some argument on how to best combat the spread of the forest or even drive it back.
Personally, I would imagine that just as events tied to fire and death created it, so too might events tied to water and life might counteract it. Encouraging the growth of plants near it (though in all likelyhood those plants would definitely need to be protected from the haunt simply using them to spread itself further instead), encouraging rainfall on it, and possibly even diverting rivers near or into the forest and the creation of lakes and wetlands (though these will contain a large amounts of rotting plant matter, which might in turn be aspected closely enough to death to render the exercise pointless). In this way, healthy forest would grow to oppose the haunted forest, and the wound in the world that is the haunt would be healed.
The voice known as Cat disagrees. In his opinion, the haunt is more a matter of the vengeful dead lingering, and because they were tied so closely to the forest in life, so too are they tied to the forest in death, and have power over it. If this is true, then as a consequence the above approach of encouraging the spread of healthy forest nearby would most likely only feed the haunt, and encourage it's spread by giving it more healthy forest to take over. The only solution then, would be to raze the haunted forest to the ground so that nothing grows there anymore, and the angry spirits lose any hold they have on the area.
Of course, the solutions to both of these theories are opposed, and if the attempted solution to one case is applied when in fact it is the other case that is true, it would only worsen matters. Do you know which of these is closer to the truth?
Either way however, the following seem like good ideas either way:
Calming and appeasing the spirits inside it should help; I imagine that the slaves you took of the Forest people might have knowledge of their tribes' spirit lore. The death priestess might also know a thing or two that could help you - has she actually voiced any concrete things that she wants from you yet, besides respecting or worshipping or something her god in some nebulous way? Of course, ultimately you are the authority on this topic, and will have to decide yourself which of these ideas are feasible or even advisable.
Another thing that would likely be advisable would be to set up a permanent guard on the forests borders. Composed of experienced hunters and warriors from all tribes, accompanied by those learned in the ways of the spirits, their duty would be to keep a closer eye on the forest and inform you of any changes and any problems they can't handle by themselves, to support the efforts of the Galugr, as well as to protect the people living near the forest from any monsters that emerge from it to prey on them and if necessary and possible, maybe even to track those monsters that prove especially persistent back to their lairs and put them down for good.
As I also imagine this to be quite stressfull and dangerous work, naturally the people serving in this guard should do so only for limited amounts of time at once, so they can recover and go back to their families afterwards.
Building watchtowers and/or secure stronghouses in the border zone could also be of help, so they can keep watch and signal each other more easily, and have somewhere safe to fall back to rest at. Is there such a thing as magical wards? These would also be well-placed on these outposts, as well as on any close villages if possible - or possibly even on a larger scale, such as inscribed on a series of wardstones erected in regular intervals, which together would form a barrier to the forest and anything that comes out of it.
To prevent the creation of similar places in the future, I would also urge you to avoid and discourage any similar large-scale killing and suffering from here on out.
In part because of the above, but also because of other reasons, I was also quite unsettled by the following:
Torture, too, is something that I would very much discourage. Not only does it have many drawbacks, but as far as I know it's use also doesn't hold any benefit that cannot be better gained in other ways.
Yes, it could be argued that it is in invaluable tool for first, interrogating someone, second, punishing someone in a way that discourages others from imitating them, third, torturing someone to make them loyal to you or to make them follow certain ideologies or beliefs, and fourth, gaining knowledge of the workings of the body. I do not consider this argument to be true, however.
First, interrogation: Most obviously, if you accidentally go too far and kill your sole source of information, how are you to gain this information otherwise?
But also, if you do torture information out of someone, who is to say they speak the truth? Maddened with pain and wanting nothing else than for the torture to stop, there are few things that a person will not invent from out of nothing in their desperation. In particular, admissions of guilt to a crime should never be taken at face value if they are extracted under torture, nor should blaming other people of being guilty of a crime. Ignoring this has led to countless innocents to be wrongly punished or killed while the ones who were truly to blame walked away free and unpunished, or even worse, while no crime has actually taken place and they were falsely accused, because they were mistrusted and hated and envied due to being different than other people, or because those people sought to blame someone for misfortune.
It is more effective, generally, to get people to tell you their secrets because they want to tell you their secrets, because they slip up while talking to you, or because they consider it futile to lie. Several tricks can help with this:
Getting someone to want to tell you their secrets usually is best done by making them think you are their friend, by being patient and understanding. However, the interrogator should take care that they do not become too friendly with the target in truth, even while quite possibly making them think otherwise, so that they can remain unbiased and continue to act with the goal of finding only the truth. At the same time, a clear imbalance of power needs to be maintained, so that the target does not feel they can take advantage of the situation and dictate the course of the conversation.
It can also help to have the true interrogator be assissted by a second person, who appears threatening and angry and forceful, so that the true interrogator can appear reasonable and preferable in comparison, and also as the only one who can protect the target from the assisstant, who can hold the assisstant back and possibly even send them away as a reward.
A lighter punishment can likewise work as a reward. It may also be necessary to reason with an target, to convince them that cooperating is the best course of action for them to take.
Getting someone to talk to you in the first place however can be both the most difficult and also the most important part. This, too, is best archieved by making the itarget want to talk of his own will, make them consider talking to their interrogator to be a pleasant and desirable thing. Again, being patient and understanding and even friendly to an extent helps with all this.
Other things that help is to make them subconciously associate the interrogation with pleasant things - a talk with a 'friend' for example. A pleasant thing does not have to be pleasant in of itself however, it can also be the absence of an unpleasant thing, such as the above angry and threatening assisstant.
Alternatives are to isolate the target from all human contact and conversation apart from the interrogator, to keep them in a dimly lit cell and have the interrogation happen in a brightly lit room and possibly to use some time outside (under strict guard in a walled in area of course) as a reward for cooperation, or to have interrogation sessions happen over or before all the meals. Serving alcoholic drinks may even loosen their tongue, too. Admittedly, withholding meals and light and human contact can be considered to be forms of torture of their own, but at least they are less grisly forms of it than cutting someone open while alive, as long as they are not done too much.
Fundamentally, humans crave human contact. Eventually, most people will crack and start talking to their interrogator out of sheer boredom. Once they have started talking, then there will be opportunities to either:
Make them slip up and reveal secrets without meaning to, though afterwards they will usually tense up and be more wary, and possibly stop talking entirely for a time - it should also be noted however that having let slip something once may also make it easier for them to knowingly reveal a second thing, as repetition even of small things breeds acceptance even of larger things.
Or to understand and reason with them and get them to reveal their secrets of their own will.
Through all this, of course, it is important that the interrogatee knows that it is futile to lie. The most important step for this is to have multiple independent sources of information you can compare with each other; An independent investigation for example, or multiple prisoners kept away from each other and not allowed to communicate without strict supervision so they cannot coordinate a cover story.
Making sure they know that you will investigate all claims they make, and that you will find and punish any lie, or better yet that making them believe that you already know the entire truth and just want to confirm how obedient they are by seeing if they will tell the truth on their own, will also encourage them to not tell lies.
As lies take active attention to maintain, it can also be helpful to ask every question multiple times phrased in slightly different ways, to disorient the target with rapid jumps between unconnected topics, or to ask questions that are completely irrelevant or whose answer is already known, in order to cause the target to doubt themselves and to hide which questions you actually want to know the answers to most.
Second, punishment: Admittedly, possibly the most valid use for torture out of the four, but even here I do not think it productive.
With punishment, generally it matters far more how certain it is than how harsh. A harsh but uncertain punishment will always tempt people to gamble, to assume, correctly or not, that they are cunning enough to get away with their transgressions. On the other hand, if they are certain that they will be found and punished and whatever benefit they gained from it taken away again, then any crime will start to seem like an unpleasant waste of time, even if the punishment is relatively moderate. It may help, for this and for interrogations, if you cultivate a reputation for knowing things about your subjects that they thought you couldn't possibly know.
Of course, there will always be those who are simply stupid and greedy enough to think that they are smarter than everyone else, that they are the one big exception even if they know that to date, everyone who ever attempted a crime got caught. But those people will exist no matter how harsh the punishment.
A further note on punishments: It is said that any punishment has four purposes: Prevention, Deterrence, Rehabilitation, and Retribution.
Prevention, simply put, means that the punishment prevents the criminal from repeating his crime in the future.
Deterrence means that knowledge of the punishment will prevent others from imitating the criminal and whatever deed got him punished. I talked about it just now. It is distinct from Prevention in that it is solely about other people, where Prevention concerns only the criminal himself.
The purpose of Rehabilitation is to turn a criminal back into a productive member of society. For a thief, chopping off his hand, locking him up for the rest of his life, or simply killing him will all fulfill the purpose of Prevention, and inhibit him from stealing again. However, all of them will also prevent him from working and contributing to the common good in the future, while imprisonment will additionally also tie up men to guard and feed and clothe him and to build his prison, while a missing hand will prevent him from most honest work and may force him to choose between either starving, or stealing again. They all have the opportunity cost of whatever work he might have done in the future, and should thus be avoided.
With Retribution, in turn, the criminal pays back his debt to society and undoes whatever harm his crime did as best as possible, while also satisfying the people around him and especially those he wronged, so that they feel they can rely on you and whoever you instate to ensure justice is done, and do not need to take it into their own hands, in the process starting blood feuds and convicting innocents and inflicting punishment far in excess of what would be appropriate.
Personally, I consider as priority, from most to least important, Rehabilitation, Prevention, and only then Retribution and Deterrence; Preventing crime of course is the most obvious purpose for punishment, but rehabilitating a criminal, if it is successfull, accomplishes it just as well as killing him would. Retribution and Deterrence, meanwhile, share the element that the certainty of punishment is paramount. It is of course possible to argue about the correct order.
Thus, I would reserve punishments that would cripple or kill someone only for the most heinous crimes and even then only if it is certain beyond all doubt that they are guilty of those crimes and that it is impossible to rehabilitate them - as these punishments are permanent and cannot be revoked and undone - and instead use imprisonment for anywhere up to several years, enslavement for the same time, or perhaps beatings. A fine, forcing them to pay tribute, may be used in addition, or even as sole punishment for minor transgressions. Though it should be noted of course that a fine sufficient to make a poor man starve to death may not even be noticeable to a rich man.
Also, if you do sentence someone to death, I would suggest that they be brought to a cell below your house, and that there you just kill them quickly and quietly and dispose of their body so noone knows what happened to them, and let rumors and people's imaginations invent far more unpleasant fates for any sentenced thus than would be possible to actually inflict without a lot of effort, without you having to lift another finger.
When deciding on a sentence, it is also important to consider the circumstances, most importantly why they did the crime. Considering again a thief: Was he desperate, did he steal beause he had to in order to feed himself and his family, or to buy medicine for a sick loved one? Did he have a sickness of the mind, that prevented him from realizing stealing was wrong, or inflicted an irresistible compulsion to do it anyway? Did he think the stolen object was rightfully his and that there was no other way to make things right? Was he forced into it by someone else by way of blackmail or threats? Did people dare him to do it to prove his courage and cunning, and he feared shame and exclusion? Did he steal in order to prevent a greater harm? Or, as of course happens on occasion, did he do it simply because he was greedy and stupid?
Each of these reasons is different and merits punishment of wildly different size and nature in order to fulfill the above four purposes, and some of them even hint at a bigger, underlying problem that has to be solved in order to stop a repeat of the crime.
Third, enforcing beliefs and loyalty: For this, torture is just about useless. You can force a person to do something or to say something, but you cannot force them to think or believe anything. The only thing you may accomplish with this is to force them to hide their beliefs and lie to you about them, while quietly resenting you for it.
If you do want to shift someone's beliefs and loyalties, better to reason with them about it.
Fourth, researching medicine: For this too, experimenting on living humans is not very useful, as you have already noted. For the most part, dead bodies, or dead or living animals can be used instead, especially pigs and mice as, eating much the same things as humans do, their bodies are largely similar in everything except form. Many other things that would need a living human to find out, you can simply ask us to tell you.
Lastly, if you ever need to try out a new medicine on a living human to confirm it works, then informing them of the risks of trying this medicine, and of the risk of using known methods against whatever they suffer from, will usually convince at least a few people to try out the new medicine if it offers them a better chance than they would have had otherwise. Or, if it doesn't, then presumably there isn't such a great need for this new medicine after all. It should also be noted that when experimenting on living beings, wether animal or human, it is important that the extra pain and discomfort is minimized as much as possible, as these can influence the results, or even cause the experiment to give false results entirely.
On the other hand, torture has several different drawbacks:
First, it damages your reputation, and as you yourself have pointed out, keeping things secret rarely succeeds permanently. It will make people, inside and out of your dominion, to consider you as a cruel tyrant that threatens their safety, and that they need to rise up and unite against in order to depose out of simple self-defense. It will give rabble-rousers ammunition to convince people of the same, things they can point to that are known to be true to support their cause against you.
Second, it takes a very particular mindset to torture someone and not be disturbed and wracked by guilt and nightmares over it, or perhaps even to enjoy inflicting suffering on someone else. Generally, a mindset that is not very trustworthy. Unless you keep very close watch on everyone you permit to do it, it is very easy for them to start tormenting others that you do approve of them doing it to, simply because they enjoy it or don't see anything wrong with it.
Third, it is inherently destructive, will permanently scar anyone it is done to even if they survive. Every life has value, not just morally but also pragmatically, in the work it can do, in the life experience it has and can share, in it's creativity and intelligence, in the social bonds and comfort it can give to others. Every life destroyed is a waste.
Fourth, judging by the death of the forest people, death and suffering may create vengeful spirits and blight the land.
True. Propably best to consider the things I said to be foundations for Bianca to build on in the future. That said, maybe there is already need for at least a small police force, to guard against theft from Bianca's hoard, to investigate disappearing singers, and to handle things like the cheating bakers during the Forest War or the feud over the glazed platter without Bianca needing to get involved herself.
That noone should need to fear starvation is true too, and is a good thing. Though if anyone does steal in order to avoid starvation nonetheless, then that would be one of those indications for an underlying problem I mentioned.
"You may be right, Gnarker, that telling you voices about magic is the only way to prevent mishaps like the cursed woods. Nonetheless, I will not. Some things are meant to remain secrets. You voices know so many things already. Give me what you know and I will make sense of the world. By means undisclosed I draw what is like weight that fills and lifts to myself. And my means undisclosed I direct it to ends of my choosing.
"My singers keep eyes and ears on all portions of the Nine Nations, including the lands of the lesser giants. My table-rulers also do tell me of the business of peoples. And I think the cursed woods are not so great a problem that I should learn to divert rivers only to discover that a haunted lake is worse, somehow.
"But I will instruct the Galugr to plant an orchard near the cursed woods and we shall see if that holds it back or beckons it onward.
"There is some promise in calming the spirits. But the Forest People and the priestess of Erweh will never work with me without concessions I am entirely unwilling to make. If there are spirits of the ancestors of the Forest People among those in the cursed woods, it may be that they also will never work with me or the people who are mine. Still, if it becomes a problem then this is worth consideration.
"The closer a person gets to the cursed woods, the less safe they are. Monsters come from that place. If I sent chosen warriors and the greatest hunters of the people to stand near the cursed woods there would be fewer chosen and fewer great hunters among the people. Better to leave that to the Galugr, who are stronger, harder to kill, and eager to prove themselves for now. And the same goes for building high places and warding magics. The Galugr will look after it. And if they fail then the Free People of the Nine Nations will know more from their failure.
"I do not know what I might have done differently in making war with the Forest People within their own woodlands, Gnarker. If they had not been driven out, they would continue to trouble the Eppam and the Zouchaud. And there is no driving out of a people without quite a bit of death. Those were their woodlands, and fighting them within it without burning it down would have cost the Nine Nations many, many more lives. We might not even have been victorious.
"I will not shy away from doing what is necessary to win just because it may occasionally cause complications after victory.
"I am in agreement with you that inflicting pain is an unreliable means of extracting the truth from someone. Generally, the most value to be had is simply from convincing the secret-keeper that you are serious. Once they know that, once they really know and fully believe that, then if they are going to be truthful they will and if they are not they may never be. Sometimes reaching that point requires the infliction of suffering. Some will never believe that there is so great a pain that it should persuade them until they feel that pain. More often, a person can be made to understand how dire their circumstances are with only words, credible threats, and demonstrations of ruthlessness. A solid reputation can stand in for much or all of that, which is more often my goal.
"Admissions of guilt are not desired for the sake of the criminal or for the sake of justice. An admission of guilt cuts away at the power behind the friends and family of the accused, it makes it more difficult for them to raise up a stir and cause trouble about the punishment received. There might be some who disagree when I or when a counsel or a chief determine who is guilty or decide who should be held to account for whatever discord has arisen. Better that the very accused agree with us.
"And you are right that secrets are best drawn out by ones the secret-keeper thinks are their friends. But that is a role for my singers, so long as the secret-keeper need not outlive their telling. It wouldn't do, after all, for the people to lose trust in my singers. And who could be identified with me and yet not tarnish my reputation by lying and friend-seeming? I would like to know, Gnarker, as that would be of value to me.
"But oh, I do find myself amused by your pretense of two people. I can see my First Table-Ruler Servant playing the role of my supplicant on behalf of the questioned. I would express my anger, only to be calmed by Servant, who would then beg the questioned to confess, lest my anger return. Hah! The sweetness of it!
"It is not often that I have reason to put questions to any person. But your techniques all seem sound, Gnarker. I will have them written in the clay words. And if ever I have need of them, they will be there.
"The lives of Fisher People are not very long, Gnarker. They might see eighty summers, though very few do. Most do not see sixty. And many die long before such an age. There is little loss if one who is already inclined to trouble lives thirty or forty fewer years. And even if the one to be so punished is not actually a maker of any great trouble, there is value in the finality of death as a punishment in preventing discord.
"I do not have time to personally oversee the beating of every thief or breaker of bodies. I do not even take the time to see to the judgement or punishment of every murderer. The Tribes look after themselves well enough and their ways are functional. But as we record the proper ways of doing things, I will see that the table-rulers keep in mind your Four Purposes of Punishment, Gnarker. If you are not wrong, then in time your correctness will be clear in the records of crime and punishment.
"There will, however, be no 'rich men,' for so long as I find the accumulation of trifles to cause discord. And no fine would be of any use. Any who had more than their neighbors before the fine would be asked to share in any case. And any who had less than their neighbors after the fine would call upon their neighbors to share with them. 'For my family has so little and yours so much and only you can right this wrong.'
"There are three limits to the punishment of theft among the Free People of the Nine Nations. The first is that the beating stops when the one who was stolen from or their family is satisfied; either may overrule the other on stopping but not to continue. The second is that the beating stops when any injury that may cause lameness occurs. And the third is that the beating is administered by the thief's own family.
"Anyone who has watched people live their whole lives should know that causing a person suffering is no way to make them loyal to you. There is a shared loyalty in shared suffering. And that has seemed as though it might be useful at times. Sometimes children who are beaten together form tight bonds that last their lives. But directing that cluster of tightly-loyal children to a given end is, if anything, more difficult than directing a single person to some end.
"Also, one such group once learned that I was the cause of their miserable lives, not the people who more directly made them to suffer. I was told two broke, as people do, and that the other three gathered those two to them and set off to leave in boats, only to sink themselves all into the sea together, bound to stones.
"There is usually little use in putting any great effort into making useful or potentially useful people truly miserable. You are right in that, Gnarker.
"But you are wrong about my reputation. As I said just now, it is valuable to have a reputation as one who does and certainly will do terrible things when she is not obeyed. The people must understand who I am. And a bit of public torture of the deserving now and then goes a long way to keep the word out that I am not to be triffled with.
"A reputation for pointless ruthlessness is folly, certainly. But a reputation for cruelty to understandable ends, as effectively communicated by my singers, makes my goals easier to meet. Are any wise leaders of people so soft that the same would not be said of them? I doubt it.
"You are right that every life has value, Gnarker. But some do not have as much value in living as they do in serving as a lesson to others."
I encourage anyone who wants good arguments against torture to check out Gnarker's post, as quoted above. They put a lot of words into that one topic and they're not inaccurate.
Some parts aren't super applicable in the setting, since there aren't any egalitarian states around as examples of how much better things can be. And other parts are right but Bianca is evil and doesn't care. It's all a great example of well-thought-out arguments to a tyrant on why they shouldn't be totally awful.
"You may be right, voice, that in seeing the plentitude of iron enjoyed by the Free People of the Nine Nations that outsiders might believe they themselves might enjoy the same. But blooming is difficult, or Burgeck would have mastered it already. And when the time comes that they learn to bloom iron, the tribes of the Nine Nations will have been making iron tools and iron weapons for many years already.
"And with that, voices, I bid you whatever passes for a pleasant time for disembodied, howling, gibbering, exclamers of madness, as I will be spending the next few years personally directing the Burgeck in their failures and tolerating their fawnings."
Code:
B R E A K
"That fool who rules the city of Wrul means to bring a great host of warriors against me!
"I put a singer in the courts of each of the Known Cities to steal their wisdom or know their folly. And each was sent to act as though they were their own person, or a subject of that ruler, but to return to me in time. Well, only this past evening did my singer return from Wrul. The young woman came in on a stolen horse with a saddle she fashioned from blankets and scrap leather!
"Oh, voices! It is the Spring of Year Twenty-Four and last we spoke was the autumn of Year Seventeen. I have called for all the warriors of the Free People of the Nine Nations to gather and we will go to meet the host of the King of Wrul. Voices, I would have you tell me of how to best make battle against a host of warriors from a distant city. Leave your advice for grain-grinding, glass-making, sail-setting, trade-allowing, cat-keeping and all other concerns that are not of combat for another time.
"No less, I will tell you of other matters so that, when the time comes, you can best advise me.
"I have, of course, recently returned from the lands of Burgeck Tribe where I oversaw their efforts and rebuffed their flattery and beggins for six years.
"In that time, the ore-gatherers and bloomeryers of Burgeck tribe have mastered the making of iron in quantities comparable to an eighth part of the copper production of all of the Nine Nations. Or so the table-rulers tell us. They continue to vary the ingredients and the process to improve the quality of their iron, but if dark metal of poor quality is desired then we will have a plentitude of it.
"While I was with the Burgeck I also looked in on their attempts to breed useful wildcats. Under my guidance -- and also under strict adherence to the rules of treatment you provided, oh voices -- the people of Burgeck Tribe have bred cats which tolerate the presence of people, if not always their attentions. They do not tolerate each other in adulthood, still. And whole litters are ruined if they're not born where someone can handle them while they're young. Still, they stick around for the catmint, breed readily enough with wild stock, and eagerly kill rodents in and around the granaries where the catmint is planted.
"The limit of one cat per village is troublesome. But is a problem that may be solved by table-rulers if the villages themselves cannot keep track of who has and who needs a cat.
"Children, it seems, are especially love the little terrors, though the feeling is never mutual.
"And there is a bathhouse in the largest village in Burgeck lands. It has three chimneys, one of which is for a fire that heats a raised pit. The pit is filled with water from the nearby river, carried there by a stone channel and let to settle in a separate pit before it is drained into the bathhouse's heated pit. That heated water can be enjoyed directly or, as it is more often, raised to a high heat and diverted into larger pits which also fill from the eternal settling pit, for a larger volume of warm water.
"The best thing to come from building that grand house of stone is a better understanding of the founding layers of buildings and the nature of arches and such. It looks like a fine place from the outside, larger even than my own great house.
"The whole process of keeping the channel clear and filling first one pit, then another, then feeding the fire that heats the water, then directing the waters into the lower pits is considered to be worth the work. But it is only so considered for special occasions. I doubt this 'bathhouse' will catch on unless someone comes to envy the Burgeck for one reason or another.
"And that reason won't be their status of being first among all the tribes or my priesthood or whatever they thought they were going to get by entreating me last autumn. They've paid attention to the singers, though, you may be sure. They made a grand celebration of me, with songs and poetry and great tales they must have gathered from those tablets Servant insisted on gathering together. Such a shame that the culmination of the whole matter was a request that they must have known I would refuse.
"Poor foolish Burgeck tribe. They're all downtrodden about it and were all winter long. I did so relish my solitude in the cold outdoors, away from all those sorrowful people.
"More pleasantly, the weighted loom and spinning wheel have spread beyond use in the lands around my great house. The people are more eager to adopt the former and to compete with their fellows to weave the widest, grandest fabrics.
"The water-wheel-driven saw blade has been abandoned by Burgeck Tribe. And there's little lost there, I think. It rarely cut much wood and was usually broken by parts snapping against each other or flying off.
"Likewise, the Burgeck have said they will no longer work toward the making of better glass, but will take it up again if another tribe improves it first. And that tribe will be Lan, who has already made great accomplishments which are directly involved in my current problem.
"In the meantime, no person who came to my great house was sent onward to trouble me in the lands of Burgeck Tribe. I am told that in every case where a supplicant disliked their answer from First Singer Huo, they received a similar answer from First Table-Ruler Servant. Servant gave different reasons in most cases, I am similarly told, and was sometimes by clever words able to persuade supplicants to happily accept Huo's judgement. But he did not deviate from her will in any case.
"This is -- my singers believe and I agree -- a sign of maneuver and scheme on Servant's part. My singers tell me that his reason one time might contradict the reason he gave another time. And some of the time the reasons he chose seemed frivolous and arbitrary, their only obvious purpose being to align with Huo without simply repeating her every justification.
"Hou's only objection to the whole affair is that she expects the Free People would eventually come to resent Servant's deceptions and that they would find fault with her and all the singers for those deceptions, as well. Perhaps, Huo has suggested, Servant's scheme would have unraveled if he were required to keep it up for too much longer.
"But Huo thinks in terms of years and decades at best, as might anyone who might, at best, see a century. If the people come to distrust my singers, as they have in the past, the singers themselves can restore their own reputation in as little a generation.
"My table-rulers found that the thawing this year came earlier than the last for the first time in many years. Though there are more surely years of hardship ahead, there may be relief coming for the people sooner than expected.
"The Galugr do not prosper in these harsh winters. But they are better off where they are than are any of the outsider tribes.
"These winters killed all the fruit trees planted. Before we try that again, voices, please tell me how to prevent a hard winter from killing certain trees.
"I believe that Kahl of Lan is in part to blame for the King of Wrul setting against the Free People of the Nine Nations. Surely this partly comes about by meddling of Erweh or his priestess. And the King of Wrul covets my hoard, as would anyone who values such things, and that is partly the cause. And it is the nature of all people to quarrel, truly. And the longer winters are certain to have affected the people of the cities to the south as well. But I am told that Kahl devised a grand scheme to enrich herself and her family beyond all others, by depriving Wrul in specific of those riches.
"Within seasons of her return from visiting three of the Four Known Cities, Kahl of Lan convinced the sand-bakers of Lan to attempt larger and larger ingots of glass. She promised riches to them, too. In time and with much work both in sand-baking and the working of precious stones, they produced three massive gems of glass. The first was called the Clouded Eye, a mostly round gem larger than Kahl's own head, clear around its edges with a colorful tangle of whisps at its core. The second was called the Crown of Knives, a solid crown of dark glass with its upper edges in long and curling blades as sharp as any could possibly be. And the third was called the Singing Cup, a large cup with a regular edge which produced a tone when you wet your finger and run it around
"These she took to the south with many other gems and spearheads and arrowheads and other blades of glass and some crafts of iron, too, to draw out all the riches of the cities at once, for the glory of herself, her family, the Tribe of Lan, and of course me. And were she not already dead by the warriors of the King of Wrul, I might kill her myself for her foolishness.
"The traders mindset of buying and selling simply does not reflect the decisions real people make. What good is it to have the most precious stones in the world if you have no tools, no donkeys to carry goods, and no goods for them to carry. Kahl may have thought she could trade gems for wealth and great gems for the city itself. I know not. But I believe that the king decided that these things should be his. Or perhaps he demanded tribute. Or perhaps the shattering of the Crown of Knives in travel was taken as some portent.
"Kahl and her companions fought well, I am told. But twenty warriors cannot stand against so many warriors as to push down all the bold people of a city.
"Now tell me, voices, how I may lead all the tens of thousands of warriors of the Free People of the Nine Nations against the Army of the King of Wrul."
[ ] [Defiance] Write in
Code:
No normal voting this time. Just advice.
'Voting' and the advisory period will
close 2019-07-08 at 1700 PDT.
You can try to compel Bianca to do some
particular thing with write in votes, but
it will take a supermajority of total
votes to do so. Being the leader among
many will not be sufficient. So if you've
got something brilliant up your sleeve
that you don't think Bianca will go for,
that's how you can get it done.
Code:
Currently, the odds in the coming battle
are moderately disfavorable to the 9N.
You know those teching-up, gearing-up,
training-up montages from every cinematic
inheritor of 'A Connecticut Yankee in King
Aurthur's Court?' Did you ever think you
could do better? Well, now's your chance.
As always, be mindful of the limitations of
the setting and the in-universe time
remaining before your advice is put to the
test.
This roll will be like the previous combat
roll found in the Informational Threadmark
titled 'Test for Strangers in a Strange
Land.'
So focus on bonuses that will stack. Five
different kinds of improved hand weapons
will only provide the same +1 bonus that
two different kinds will.
Think outside the box. Think of things I
don't expect you to. Think of things
things I never did.
And most importantly, have fun.
Have we considered just offering to show the king how such baubles might be made? Bianca surely has the personal might to bypass any guards. Sure, we lose the secret, but see "veritable font of secrets". Simultaneously, Bianca can make a big scary showing. Carrot & Stick.
I'm unsure what we could do to improve our warriors chances appreciably in such a short time. We might not have enough horse riders to form a proper combat unit, but a man on a horse is fantastic for transferring messages.
It would be really helpful for making suggestions if we had a better idea of how Bianca expects the fight to go.
Are we just lining up in a field & tossing masses of angry people at each other?
Can our archers shoot a proper volley?
Our biggest problem right now is that we don't know nearly enough about what we are getting into here.
Okay, introductions, my moniker is Silver and I tend to be good at breaking things.
Right, first thing's first. What is their armor like?
Given what tech level you're at and the fact that he thinks a mighty host is necessary instead of a small team of elites and heroes, he likely won't be fielding full-plate save for in small numbers. So I'll just quick run through a couple you're likely to see. Just remember: Always go for the unarmored bits first.
First is Boiled Leather. It's exactly what it sounds like, leather that has been boiled and otherwise treated so that it becomes hard and rigid. This sort of armor is lightweight, excellent against arrows from smaller bows, and can be shaped into helms, gauntlets, chest and back plates, greaves, and boots. It can also be used to make shields, being stretched over circles of wooden planks to provide a layer for catching arrows. At the very least, failing everything else, you can expect a boiled leather chest-piece to protect their vital organs from damage. Additionally, in a pinch, the leather itself can be boiled and eaten, though it tastes as awful as it sounds. There are likely a hundred and one ways to treat the leather to get these properties, but that's not what I'm here to talk about. Instead, let's talk about its weaknesses.
Boiled leather bends. Quite easily, in fact. While a sword or an ax swung with great enough skill can cleave through boiled leather with only minor difficulty, the leather itself will crumple like paper against a mace, maul, or club swung with enough force. The leather itself does little to dampen the force behind the blow. Additionally, while it may be good at catching smaller arrows, the thrust behind a larger arrow, or even a spear, will more often than not be capable of piercing through at least far enough to draw blood. And in the case of the spear, the leverage this provides will make finishing the fight far simpler.
Next up is Breastplate. If their metal industry is great enough, plates of iron over the chest and back and helms of metal, as well as the occasional shield with a metal plate in the center, will be fairly common. The metal will, by and large, be more difficult to get through than any leather armor they might have, though if they're issuing breastplates en masse there's no guarantee they'll even bother with the leather. Whatever the case, if you only see metal on their caps or their torsos, best idea is to disregard those areas and aim for the limbs first. While it's true a man can keep fighting and killing and survive so long as his chest, gut, and head are not savaged, it becomes a fair bit harder when he's only got one good leg to stand on and one good arm to swing with.
Lastly, and there should only be about a hundred of these (if that) is the Full-Plate Knights. Typically drawn from the Nobility (if that matters to you,) the Full Plate armor you might have to deal with will cover a warrior head-to-toe in metal, thus solving the problem of 'Go for the limbs' that is typical among those simply armored in a breastplate. Still, the philosophy remains the same: go for the unarmored bits. The trick will be figuring out where those unarmored bits are, though they can typically be found at the neck and the joints.
A rather common and infamous one is directly under the armpit, where it just so happens a major artery runs through the body. Strike under the arm pit, whoever's bothering you will bleed out in a minute or two. Another good spot is behind the knee, as that space needs to be kept open for the purpose of running. Lastly is the visor. Every person needs to see, which necessitates an opening in the armor right where their eyes are. A skilled enough archer with a powerful enough bow can easily punch through the relatively thinner metal of the visor, especially if a chunk is missing to let them see. Also works good in a pinch in melee, if you've got something good for thrusting. Just aim for the eyes and it should work out. Or you'll die. But such is life, right?
Anyways, since you lack much in the way of fortifications, I won't bother going into detail about siege equipment and how to sabotage those with arrow-fire. Just let us know if they start fielding mechanical bows on a box, or crossbows as they may be known.
Silver, about your words that you want to say... I'm pretty sure that her tribes are the only people with any, even if bad-quality, iron production. Our enemies may have a few long knives, swords, made out of meteroic iron at most. So there should be no full plate iron armor among our enemies, thankfully. Think more about the times that you may know as the bronze age.
Cities of her world are still primitive, small and simple in comparision to these great cities that we can imagine or remember. Thankfully. Still, this is a very respectable and dangerous enemy in comparision with the Nine.
I wonder whether iron is now good enough to reinforce armor and shields. I suppose that this can be the case. Not good enough for decent weapons I suppose, but I believe that Bianca should experiment with iron arrowheads and spearheads.
Horse archers can be pretty shocking for the enemy, though the fact that only youth and smaller women can use horses for that make this fact much less useful than it could be otherwise. Still, as much as such solution can be used, this should be worth the effort. Such force should move swiftly to avoid close combat or to deliver a rapid blow to the flanks or rear of the foe.
Could we use magic to kill the King and his warleaders and his sorcerers? Or mundane assasins? We should try to destroy their ability to command and control their forces.
Magic and spirits can be also used against enemy forces, especially chariots and formations closely-packed with people. There are many benefits to formations, but magic and mundane fire can be great against these.
And "mundane fire" reminds me about clay pots filled with burning strong alcohol, you can throw that at enemy formation. You need to experiment whether this is worth the cost and danger.
On the other hand, youths mounted on horses could be surprisingly useful with bows and long spears against these enemy soldiers that break their formation.
Try to experiment and train with new ideas as long as there is time.
Good idea when feasible: the pincer movement, or double envelopment, is a maneuver in which forces simultaneously attack both flanks/sides of an enemy formation.
The pincer movement typically occurs when opposing forces advance towards the center of an army that responds by moving its outside forces to the enemy's flanks to surround it. At the same time, a second layer of pincers may attack on the more distant flanks to keep reinforcements from the target units.
Glass has two traits that would make it excellent for making weapons were it not for it's third trait: When broken into pieces, the resulting edges are extremely sharp, and it's hardness means that it holds these edges for a long time without blunting. Unfortunately, it is also extremely brittle, and will shatter into pieces when struck with any force against something else that is hard.
Nonetheless, you may be able to make use of glass for both tools and weapons: Specifically, glass shards may be fashioned into an arrowhead like you would flintstone. This arrow should be pretty good at piercing flesh and soft padding, and if the head breaks then it should be replaced easily enough, if the arrow itself even survives and is recollected in the first place.
You may also be able to make something similar to the caltrops proposed previously, but simpler in concept: Take a wooden board, and cover one side of it in mortar, and while the mortar is still wet, set glass shards into it with their sharp edges pointing upwards. After the mortar has dried, anyone stepping onto the board without protection will have their foot cut into ribbons. Laying these out onto the battlefield in the right places should serve to protect your army from any charges, especially if they have been lightly covered in dirt and leaves and grass.
Just, please, be extremely careful when keeping track of these boards, of how many were made and where exactly they ended up and retrieving or making safe all of them afterwards; If you lose one that was laid out, then sooner or later it will ruin someone's day, if not tomorrow then in a hundred years. Entire regions have been made uninhabitable by weapons such as these used carelessly. Transporting them may also take some care, as the glass may break, and in doing so injure someone. Also, be aware that if your enemy captures some, he will most likely try to use them against you in turn.
A similar mortar-and-glass arrangement may also cover the top of a brick wall, to make scaling it more dangerous. Walls, thankfully, are somewhat harder to lose track of than wooden boards.
More on how glass may be used for more peaceful uses at a later, hopefully more peaceful time.
The crossbow is a weapon similar to a normal bow, but with several advantages.
To make one, you will need two main parts: First, the bow. You know how to make these already, though ideally the bows you want for this should be relatively short compared to longbows as tall as man, but at the same time stiffer than normal ones, so in spite of being smaller they are just as strong or even stronger than the bows you normally use, and could normally only shoot rather short arrows. This is not a problem, however, due to how the crossbow functions.
Next, the stock. A rectangular piece of wood, up to maybe the length of an arm. Across underside of the front end, cut a groove. The center of the bow is firmly affixed into this, so that when the string is drawn back and released, it slides along the top of the stock. Alternatively, bore a hole through the stock and thread the bow halfway through it.
Next, cut a second groove across the top of the stock, as far back as the string reaches when it is fully drawn back. The groove should be very slightly slanted so that it's bottom is slightly more forward than it's opening. When drawing the bow, the string is caught into this groove, so that the bow pulling the string forward, due to how the groove slants, only pulls the string all the more tightly into it.
Third, cut another groove lengthwise in the middle of the stock's topside, from the very front to just before the string catch, this one very shallow. The arrow rests here. This groove should be just deep enough that when the bowstring slides across it's sides, it sits level with the nock.
Lastly, the release mechanism: A bit below the string catch, bore a hole into the stock side-to-side. Thread a pin though this hole, which holds a lever so that it can rotate up and down freely. The top edge of the lever should be flush with the top edge of the stock. The long end of the lever points backwards, while the short end of the lever juts just a bit past the string catch.
When drawing the bow, the long end of the lever is pulled upwards so that the short end is out of the way. To loose the arrow, pull the long end down, so that the short end pushes the string up out of the catch. The front edge of the catch, the top of the stock, and their sides as well as the point where these two meet should be polished smooth in order to reduce wear on the string.
The proper stance when shooting a crossbow is to stand sideways, with the rear end of the stock firmly pressed into where the back shoulder meets the torso. The forward hand grips the forward end of the stock, the rear hand it's middle with the thumb operating the lever. The cheek is pressed to the side of the stock so that the eye that is further back sights along it. Said eye should be the dominant eye of the archer. (To find out which eye is your dominant one, quickly and without thinking about it point a finger at an object in the distance. Then, without moving the finger, close first one and then the other eye. Whichever single eye sees the finger in line with your target is your dominant one.)
The main advantage of it is the ease of use: It is said that, to make a good bowman, you should start with his grandfather, training all his life, only to then pass on all he knows to his son while he also trains all his life, who does the same for his son.
To make a good crossbowman, by contrast, takes maybe two weeks of practice, both due to a bow's arrow curving around the shaft when loosed, and due to not needing to actively hold the string back while aiming.
Speaking of aiming: When aiming for accurate shots, hold your breath, as otherwise the motions of the chest can cause your arms to sway.
The second advantage is the ammunition: The arrows for a crossbow are relatively short and thick. This makes them less likely to break, a requirement for a crossbow's often considerable draw strength, but also helpful against armor. You do not have to use arrows however: Spherical bullets (especially if they are slightly elongated) of clay or lead like you would use with a sling are perfectly seviceable. In a pinch, a smooth river pebble will do.
For the best accuracy of course, all ammunition, just like any other projectile weapon, should be as consistent in size, shape and weight as possible.
The third advantage: Crossbows tend to be less unwieldy on horseback, or when kneeling down. Some more notes on both:
When shooting from horseback, the arrow will inherit the velocity and direction of the horse, in addition to the velocity and direction it gets from the bow. Due to how these add together unless aiming straight ahead or behind, from the point of view of the archer the arrow will seem to travel sideways parallel to the horse, and he'll need to aim to the horse's rear's side of the target to compensate.
Second, when in all but the loosest of formations, normally the archers not in the front row find it difficult to aim and shoot without risk of shooting their comrades in the back. It helps if the front row kneels down so the ones behind them can shoot over their heads, with the result of doubling the arrows that a given amount of archers can efffectively shoot accurately over a given time.
There are further improvements that you can make to the crossbow, however:
First, and also just the first step towards make increasingly powerful crossbows: Affix a stirrup of metal or of sturdy rope to the front of the crossbow. When drawing the bow, step one foot into this stirrup and rest the shaft against you leg, so that you can bend forward and use both of your arms to pull the bowstring back instead of just one, allowing a much stronger bow to be used.
Second, to reduce wear on the bowstring and to improve accuracy due to the bowstring starting it's way forward while already in contact with the ammunition instead of slamming into it at speed: Instead of catching the bowstring itself in the stock's catch, tie a sturdy piece of leather onto the string, one end on each side of the stock with a little slack in the resulting loop, and pull that into the catch instead.
Third, a sight. Just behind the rearmost point where the long end of the lever can reach, affix two long-ish sticks pointing upwards to the stock, one on each side. Brace them against each other with crossbar at their ends. Across the created window, string a horizontal piece of strong but thin string - hair works well, thus the name crosshair. Also cut a little notch into the middle of the stock's front end's upper edge, so that the middle of the crosshair, the notch, and the arrow groove are in-line. Looking through the window while aiming, how high the crosshair and the notch are to each other can help you better judge the crossbows elevation to adjust for the distance to your target and the resulting projectile drop.
It works even better if you don't just have one crosshair, but several, creating what is called a ladder sight, and if you also have a vertical crosshair running though the exact middle of the window, you can better spot wether you are holding the crossbow slanted instead of straight and level.
For these to be as accurate as possible, you may need to test them out by aiming at a target, taking note of where the say the bolt will land, then shoot the crossbow and see where the bolt actually ends up, and then adjust the sights so the former matches the latter. Repeat this as often as necessary.
Fourth, better grips, pointing downwards, affixed where the hands would otherwise rest, allowing the crossbow to be held more naturally.
I think we should consentrate on tactics as there is little time to consentrate on great tecnical improvements. They are coming to uss not we to them, lets use that to our advantage.
I will ellaborate when i have more time to write but.
-Food, make proper supply train for us, destroy theirs
-draw them where you want to fight, do not leave any food behind
-attack unexpected. Have small bands with ranged weapons (hunters)? Attack them when they move. An army mooves as an long train so attacking a part of it and then dissapearing is awful for their moral. Focus on things like food wagons and cart pulling anomuksen ls, but newer attack the same portion of the army twise in a row. If they have no will to fight when they meat your hoard.
This is also when i would use the caltrops, to place on their road that they will take.
Besides warriors of the Nine, surely our lesser giants could be useful, though I imagine that there are not many of them. Still, lesser giant with a metal weapon and armor made by a skilled craftsmen of the Nine Nations - I remember that lesser giants themselves are very bad at crafting anything - could be fearsome.
You're very close to something here, something I hadn't considered.
However, the main character who could personally force their way through (almost) any number of guards and then kill (almost) anyone who interrupts their conversation with the opposing warlord is the main character you voted for, not the main character who won the majority.
Bianca can be physically overwhelmed by sufficient numbers of entirely mundane people if she meets them head on. So physically, personally wading through bodies to go talk to the warlord isn't something she'd be keen on and probably wouldn't work out great for her.
You're very close to something here, something I hadn't considered.
However, the main character who could personally force their way through (almost) any number of guards and then kill (almost) anyone who interrupts their conversation with the opposing warlord is the main character you voted for, not the main character who won the majority.
Bianca can be physically overwhelmed by sufficient numbers of entirely mundane people if she meets them head on. So physically, personally wading through bodies to go talk to the warlord isn't something she'd be keen on and probably wouldn't work out great for her.
Upon further thought, personally wading through bodies to go talk to the warlord may not be the optimal maneuver. However, I firmly believe that the best outcome could be more likely achieved by negotiation in lieu of decimation. We need simply pivot to a more stealthy approach.
Whence the enemy makes camp, the Warlord will likely have a personal tent. Perhaps with some few guards within. If our Lady were to use her power to create a [Wall Of Silence] about this tent, then she need only subdue a few guards to prevent alarm being raised. This plan presumes of course that the Warlord & those closeby do not have sufficient power to challenge our Lady.
If this or a similar plan succeeds & talks begin, then I must caution. We cannot simply threaten the warlord into turning about. We must strike a deal which when presented to his warriors feels like a victory. They must be allowed to save face. Lucky then that we know what they want. Perhaps make believe that they are simply an "enthusiastic" trading caravan. We have glass & baubles & they have plenty of metal. Let any who wish to learn the secrets of the making of glass be guests of Lan for a few years.
This is one of those rare occasions where giving your enemy everything they want will work out better in the long run.
The risk in just giving them anything they want, without a back up plan/threat to their life is that then everyone will hear, that attacking will give them all our secret.
Maybe diplomacy, while making their possible advancement hell could be an opinion...
No. Everyone will hear that we are willing to trade. Or they will just trade with the people we have already traded with. Its all about presenting things correctly. That's why we need to corner the warlord to talk things out. Give a little bit of the stick, and alot of the carrot. Anyway, our backup plan is to meet them in battle.
Did we present case hardening already? That might be possible to implement fast enough to make a difference.
I'm not sure that we have time to experiment with improvements in iron production, but try packing the finished iron weapon in a mixture of ground bone and charcoal or a combination of leather, hooves, salt and urine, all inside a well-sealed box. This package should be then heated to a high temperature but still under the melting point of the iron and left at that temperature for a some time. Insides of the iron should remain soft, but outside should be now harder... I think, if I remember this right, that this is the case thanks to added atoms of carbon and nitrogen.
The longer the package is held at the high temperature, the deeper the carbon will diffuse into the surface. Different depths of hardening are desirable for different purposes: sharp tools need deep hardening to allow grinding and resharpening without exposing the soft core, while machine parts like gears might need only shallow hardening for increased wear resistance.
I can also imagine another and unrelated method for better metal, though I'm also not sure whether this can work with the quality of iron that you now have: you can try to rapidly cool red-hot iron weapon in water. Quench hardening.
It may be also the case that the issue with poor iron quality is completely opposite, that is, too much carbon and impurities, too brittle instead of soft. In this case you need to heat the finished metal for a long time without any added stuff, and with a good flow of air, and then cool this slowly. There may be also other issues, these are complicated matters, so I'm not sure whether there may be enough time.
Scale armour is a form of armour consisting of many individual small armour scales (plates) attached to each other and to a backing of cloth or leather in overlapping rows. Many materials can be used for scales, including bronze and most importantly iron.
Use of helmets, a metal or leather hats, should be encouraged to better protect the head. Parts that cover even ears and cheeks are well-advised.
Cauterization - when someone is heavily wounded, heavy bleeding that cannot be stopped with pressed boiled rags may be stopped with pressing hot metal to the wound. This often can stop bleeding, though it would also increase all other forms of damage, burns are not nice. Hold the hot metal long enough to stop bleeding, but not so long to burn healthy part of the body.
Use only in the cases of heavy bleeding, when blood loss seems to be worse than more messy wound. These concerns need to be wisely balanced. For example, when someone losses his hand cauterizing the wound to stop bleeding may be advisable, but not in case of minor wounds. Germ-free boiled cloth/rag should be applied afterward as always.
Wounds attacked by germs can be often recognized by darker color and by foul smelling pus that is often white-yellow, yellow, or yellow-brown liquid, though brown or bloody pus is also possible. Pus should be allowed to drain away if possible, well-boiled knife can be used to help if there is build-up of pus under the skin. Very carefully wash with soap, previously boiled water and strong alcohol.
Completely dark and dead-looking limb or part of the limb, known to me as gangrene, can be only cut off and cauterized, this can cause death, but otherwise death is certain.
