0. Quest Mechanics and Details
0
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                         NOTICES
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Cacophonous Interlude is NOT active
  (the QMPC does NOT hear what you write right now)
Next story update : Sometime in July would be nice
Next vote closing : TBD
Progress toward next update : 3,146 words
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Anything I post that's not in text blocks or in spoilers
may be understood to be said by the QMPC, with the
exception of the Collaboration Post
  (see Collaboration Post for details on itself)
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Players do not need to use code blocks or spoilers
outside of cacophonous interludes

If you use code blocks, please limit yourself to 32 lines
and your lines to 57 characters, so that people on mobile
can read them without scrolling within the code block
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This is not meant to be Plagiarism Quest.

You're not discouraged from using outside reference
material or quoting other sources.  When you do, please
cite your sources in spoilers or a code box.
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 I have added some players who contributed a fair amount
the last two times as thread collaborators who can update
   the collaboration post. If you'd like to update the
collaboration post too, contact me by PM and we'll talk
                        about it.




Check the Collaboration Post and read the latest story post in the Threadmarks to get a rough idea of where things are at.

If you're not already involved in the game, portions of either of these may be difficult to follow. But you can skip to the line that says "B R E A K" in the latest threadmarked story post and skim from there to get an idea of what's going on.

If there's no corresponding Closing The Vote post in the Informational threadmarks for the latest story post in (normal?) Threadmarks, then the game is in a cacophonous interlude and the QMPC will hear what you post, unless you do so with spoilers or code boxes. The NOTICES portion at the top of this post should also tell you if the game is in a cacophonous interlude.

So you can engage with other players, make suggestions, ask questions, and propose plans and you can compose a message to the QMPC all whether or not the game is in a cacophonous interlude. And once it is, you can vote and/or send a message to the QMPC by creating a post in the thread.

If you want to vote, simply do so as you would in other quests on this board. You may look at other players' votes to see how yours should be formatted. And you may check the tally to see that yours are counted as you intend them.

If you want to send a message to the QMPC, though, keep in mind that they are a creature of their time. They may not understand what you mean if you don't take the time to make it clear. This game rewards and demands work from its players. When a player wants to introduce a concept or tool or technology to the QMPC, that player will probably need to expend effort to explain it carefully, and take into consideration the limits of the QMPC's understanding of the world.

I think this is similar enough to Graeber's 'interpretive labor' that we can use the term colloquially to describe what is being asked of players. Put yourself in the mind of the QMPC and ask yourself how such a person can be made to understand what you want to tell them.

The QMPC has different values than we do. They have different assumptions about the world and objects and forces within it. Their goals may not align directly with number-go-up or color-get-big gaming agendas. But they want something, and will listen most attentively to players that tell them how to get more of or closer to what they want.
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                    Collaboration Post!
  1. The Quest Master posts story updates that have 3 parts.
    • Quest Master Player Character responses to player posts made during the last cacophonous interlude
    • An update by the QMPC following a break of varying length but usually some number of years, covering what the character believes is worth mentioning
    • Requests by the QMPC for direction on a number of issues, which the players will provide in the form of votes
  2. Following each story update, players posts are audible to the QMPC until voting is closed.
    This is the cacophonous interlude.
    • Players may convey any information they can represent in text.
    • No images, sounds, or hyperlinks will get through (this is my limitation, not a limitation of the game, so please do not try to transcend it with clever protocol tricks).
    • Players may use spoilers or code blocks to communicate with each other without doing so in ways the QMPC can hear.
  3. When votes are tallied, the QM collects player posts so that it may be known what the QMPC heard.
    • Votes are tallied in the conventional fashion. So only votes in the most recent post by each player are counted. [X] marks what the player is voting. And only identical write-ins accumulate.
    • Some votes are querying the players for their preference, in which case the only suboptimal answer is that which does not accurately reflect the preference of the players who nonetheless chose it (I don't think these kinds of misunderstandings can be helped).
    • Other votes are intended as puzzles where there is a choice the QM believes would best meet what they believe to be the goals of the players.
      • However, in these sorts of votes the QM has in mind a choice that would provide the players with what the QM thinks they most want, but which is not listed in the available votes.
      • In this way, clever write-ins are encouraged.
  4. QM reads player posts, researches their suggestions, checks notes for precedent, determines what the QMPC thinks they already know on the topic, what they're right or wrong about, how likely they are to engage with the topic, how likely the QMPC's followers are to follow-through in the matter, and finally what the result is going to be later on.
  5. QM composes QMPC's responses to player posts made during the cacophonous interlude and updates their notes.
  6. When narrative benefits from uncertainty and chance, QM devises tests for QMPC or other characters and makes those tests using die rolls on a post made just for that purpose.
    • Skill or attribute tests will be made with a largely undocumented homebrew modification of the Burning Wheel system, mangled to suit the format of this game. (The Burning Wheelis a good system and I encourage you to check it out.)
      • Tests may be a contest between two characters or against a static target with tiered results.
      • The rules being used and followed will be described in each post in which tests are made by die rolls.
      • Normal mortals count 7s and better as successes.
      • Heroic characters and characters who are otherwise innately magical count 6s and better as successes.
      • Demigod characters and characters who otherwise possess some spark of divinity count 5s and better as successes.
      • New gods and characters who have otherwise stolen the power of Old Gods count 4s and better as successes.
      • Old Gods count 3s and better as successes.
      • Sorcery and other magic skills lower the threshold of success by 1 to a minimum of 3 only when they are the skill being tested, not when they provide a bonus to other skills. Players may note that Old Gods' threshold of success does not improve when they use magic.
      • Bonus dice provided by Kahl's Warhorses and any incendiary devices more complicated than a burning arrow reroll 9s & 10s and keeps successes. These same bonus dice cancels successes on 1s & 2s, rerolls those, and additional 1s & 2s cancel additional successes. More 1s, 2, 9, or 10s mean more rerolling and more successes or cancelations, but only in the manner of the original die. That is, a 1 or 2 that comes up when a 9 on a bonus die is rerolled don't cancel successes or lead to further rerolling.
    • Research project results are determined by percentile dice with results falling into 5 tiers.
      • Uh oh: something has gone horribly wrong
      • Nuh uh: failure, but the boring kind
      • Huh: partial success
      • Uh huh: full success
      • Whoa: superior special case success
    • When players expect a test to be coming up -- for example if they vote for an invasion or to send a diplomat to manipulate a foreign leader -- they can improve the odds of the test turning out the way they want by providing the QMPC with advice specific to that matter. If the advice is not mistaken or outright bad, there will be at least a chance it will help. That is, decent advice adds dice.
  7. QM composes the QMPC's post-break update, player vote questions, and player vote options.
  8. GOTO 1
The QMPC is intended to be the only character the players will interact with in this game. (It's kind of possible that the players could maneuver the QMPC to surrender control of the Astute Cacophony to another character, but unlikely.)

The QMPC is a small, evil woman who knows magic and has not died, despite looking like she probably should have at some point. She goes by the name Bianca the Undying. Her early life took place in the Paleolithic, in which she has said that she traveled around quite a bit and came to understand the malleable nature of populations of people and animals and even the land itself. At some point she was trapped underground, to her displeasure. She remained trapped for a very long time.

When Bianca got out, she found her way to a community of eight tribes living pastoral and agrarian lifestyles in the local Copper Age. She made these people hers and they relied on her for magically enriching their fields so that they did not need to slash, burn, and move around a bit, unlike their neighbors. Bianca and her followers formalized their relationships into the Eight Ways Pact. Later, another tribe joined Bianca's followers bringing small horses and the Bronze Age and their pact was updated with a ninth directive.

Bianca has an agenda that requires her to have more power than she does right now. She believes that achieving divinity will get her that power.
 
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I don't know. Cursing items sounds like a lot of work for something that wouldn't affect all that many enemies.
Bianca have told us before that her hoard does already contain cyrsed items, no need to make new ones.
Also the few enemies getting their hands on well plased "valuables" will likely bee leaders to some degree. Wich are those few people we want to target
 
Hey people the woting is closing soon, this far we have only i think 2 votable suggestions and almost no votes.

Also if someone have some more ideas, please share.
 
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Fellow Voices and whispers, there is no need to vote for a particular solution, general advice is sufficient this time.

More ideas for weapons and training please.
Adhoc vote count started by liberty90 on Jul 6, 2019 at 5:32 PM, finished with 41 posts and 5 votes.
 
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[Shield Upgrade : Argive Grip]
Construct a shield with the handle located along its rim and a strap in the center for the forearm. This arrangement allows better control of heavier shields with two points of support and prevents accidental shield loss in the heat of battle.

[New Weapon : Halberd]
Begin with a thrusting spear somewhat longer than a man is tall, then attach an axe-head and a large hook to opposite sides of the spear-head. The hook should curve towards with wielder and can be used to yank enemies off balance, while the axe-head lets you use swinging attacks. Additionally, you can put a sharp counterweight on the other end of the spear to make it more maneuverable or serve as a backup weapon if your spear-haft breaks. To be clear, the spear-head, axe-head, and hook should all be the same chunk of metal. It stabs. Its slices. It chops. It dices!

[Steel Production Tips]
It has come to my attention that it may not be obvious that the properties of a bloom of steel vary greatly throughout. Instead of beating it all together and getting an even mixture, you can try to cut off the better bits. In this case, I define better bits as the more shiny parts. These shiny parts have less [Carbon] than the duller parts. [Carbon] is an abundant component of life. Charcoal consists of almost pure [Carbon]. Higher [Carbon] steel is harder, less flexible, and melts at a lower temperature. Generally, for tools & weapons, you want the bulk to consist of flexible low [Carbon] steel to prevent breakage, while the cutting bits are harder high [Carbon] steel to hold a durable edge.
Luckily, we have :
[Case Hardening]
First create your tool or weapon using low carbon steel. Now coat the portions to be hardened in a paste made of charcoal, then the whole thing in clay. You will need to experiment with different firing temperature and duration's. Longer, hotter firings will result in more, deeper hardening. It is important that the clay not crack during the firing, lest the charcoal be burned instead of infusing the steel.
 
To clarify possible confusion, pure iron is iron, while "steel" is iron with some, but not too much, added carbon. Steel is the form of iron alloy the best suited for weapons, to simplify matters. This can be more complicated, various impurities and mixes exist in practice, but to clarify meanings of words at least somewhat.

Future confusion may be caused by cast iron and pig iron that actually have even more carbon than steel, but are brittle and useless for weapons. Pure iron is useless for weapons because it's too soft. Metals and metal alloys, by alloys I mean mixes of metals or metal with added something, are very complicated.

Now, when I think about this, such naming is rather inconsistent, though maybe I miss something. Pure iron is iron, iron with too much carbon or impurities is iron, but iron with some but not too much carbon is "steel". Humph. Maybe these ironmakers that I know/remember/dream about wanted to have one word for "iron alloy, but the most useful for weapons of the iron age and machinery of the machine age". Hm.
 
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You can try to compel Bianca to do some particular thing with write in votes, but it will take a supermajority of total votes to do so. Being the leader among many will not be sufficient. So if you've got something brilliant up your sleeve that you don't think Bianca will go for, that's how you can get it done.

If you look at the quote above I at least understand it as an need to vote.


There is no need to vote, advice is sufficient this time.
 
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"if you've got something brilliant up your sleeve that you don't think Bianca will go for". I see nothing like that, for now, imho.
 
Well, maybe also experiment with long knives known as swords, if there is now enough metal? You know scientific method. Have a few people train with wooden training swords, observe when such a type of weapon may be more effective than spears and axes.

It's my opinion that spears are more effective than swords when you move in formation and want to strike at your foe from distance safer for you. Spears are simply longer, and if you are able to move as disciplined formation - though I worry that not many of your warriors are disciplined enough, many probably consider individual combat as more proper and this can be bad - then your force can look like a spear and shield wall, hard to penetrate.

But swords are better than axes or spears when the formation is broken or there is no formation. Much more flexible regardless of situation, I believe.

Though somebody suggested halberds, nice modification of a spear, yes.
 
Well, maybe also experiment with long knives known as swords, if there is now enough metal? You know scientific method. Have a few people train with wooden training swords, observe when such a type of weapon may be more effective than spears and axes.

It's my opinion that spears are more effective than swords when you move in formation and want to strike at your foe from distance safer for you. Spears are simply longer, and if you are able to move as disciplined formation - though I worry that not many of your warriors are disciplined enough, many probably consider individual combat as more proper and this can be bad - then your force can look like a spear and shield wall, hard to penetrate.

But swords are better than axes or spears when the formation is broken or there is no formation. Much more flexible regardless of situation, I believe.

Though somebody suggested halberds, nice modification of a spear, yes.
Swords are not nessesarily better than axes as you say. Our time to prepare is maybe one moon, a well known weapon is better than a new and unfamiliar one.

Othervise black cat has a point. In a big fight it is important to fight orderly in formation, maybe using a bit bigger shield. Then ones sides can be protected by the neibours, and those in the first row cam switch places with those in the next when they are injured to have a short while to draw breath.
 
[x] [Defiance] Star

Can we use cavalry to harras them, or push them in Hammer and Avil position by having our soldiers confront them while having another group of soldiers come from the back thus making their oderly formation liability?

It is a relatively simple maneuver. It begins with two Infantry forces of varying strengths engaging in a frontal assault. While the infantry lines are fixed in the engagement, a cavalry force maneuvers around the enemy and attacks from behind, sandwiching it into the friendly infantry. Generally, the force attempting the maneuver needs to have a superior amount of cavalry to be successful.

Then there is "hopping" hammer and anvil. That requires the cavalry to be a "hit-and-run", relying on the impact. The "hopping" maneuver relies on the cavalry hitting an extreme left or right flank, then hammer-and-anvilling towards the center of the infantry. That would weaken and rout the entire flank, leaving the remaining forces to run down the scattering enemies.

I vould also advise oh great undying one to relocate all the food sources between you and attacking army so that they don't have anything to eat and if possible using magic to hide the water, maybe burying water source underground, because you could always have tribes dig it up later when war is over.

We do not have cavalry as the horses are still too small for full grown men.
 
Right, my fellow voices, no proper cavalry yet. But youths (and smaller women) can ride horses, and would be probably very happy with such serious tasks. Not that "very happy" equals "very effective", but given that our enemies know nothing or almost nothing about riding horses, eh, there should be some shock factor.
 
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I have no time to read through all the post and the answers, as I have been busy with university and other stuff. Could anybody tell me if it has been mentioned to maybe use skirmishes to lead the army to a more defendable position for us to use against them? Since they left their city, they will need rangers to explore ahead, so we'll need to deal with those firsts. If we can cut their supply lines or destroy their rations with night raids, then for the better, though scorched earth tactics might be too damaging for ourselves.
 
I have no time to read through all the post and the answers, as I have been busy with university and other stuff. Could anybody tell me if it has been mentioned to maybe use skirmishes to lead the army to a more defendable position for us to use against them? Since they left their city, they will need rangers to explore ahead, so we'll need to deal with those firsts. If we can cut their supply lines or destroy their rations with night raids, then for the better, though scorched earth tactics might be too damaging for ourselves.
my suggestion was basically to as long as possible harash them by destroyi g supply wagons etc., carry everything imprtant away (but not burn everything, and then deside where to meet the army.
Demons suggestion was to burn and poison everything in their path, wich I find too drastic.
 
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my suggestion was basically to as long as possible harash them by destroyi g supply wagons etc., carry everything imprtant away (but not burn everything, and then deside where to meet the army.
Demons suggestion was to burn and poison everything in their path, wich I find too drastic.
May I suggest the formation of small pits and walls in the chosen place? Basically, dig a small trench, use the dug earth to make an elevation right after it, and then put wooden stakes on top of that elevation to form a wall. Even if unmanned, the obstacles should slow them down and make maintaining formations more difficult, which would help our archers. Should we use our cavalry, the wall should divide them into manageable numbers for charges as they pass through the defenses, if only for a while.

I took the idea form this video. The important part is in minute 9:10 (Game of Thrones Season 8 Spoilers)
 
May I suggest the formation of small pits and walls in the chosen place? Basically, dig a small trench, use the dug earth to make an elevation right after it, and then put wooden stakes on top of that elevation to form a wall. Even if unmanned, the obstacles should slow them down and make maintaining formations more difficult, which would help our archers. Should we use our cavalry, the wall should divide them into manageable numbers for charges as they pass through the defenses, if only for a while.

I took the idea form this video. The important part is in minute 9:10 (Game of Thrones Season 8 Spoilers)

I understand what you mean. It depends on how well we can choose the place to fight. I added this to my text. But it would be good if you have time to explain it a bit better to Bianca. As currently I added just a short paragraph as I am on a phone.
 
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I understand what you mean. It depends on how well we can choose the place to fight. But i will try to add this to my text
Thanks, though I'll try and see if I can make a quick vote.

[X] [Cacophony] EmptyHusk

Greetings, Great Bianca. The Empty Husk speaks again.

I lament my absence in your previous request for counsel, as well as the haste by which I answer you now, but us voices perceive time in a different way, and mine is running low at the moment.

I have no time to review your latest review to my fellow voices' suggestions, nor can I stop to hear what they have suggested in how to deal with your current predicament, but I can give you my own input on such matter.

As things are right now, they are the ones venturing into the unknown, going into foreing territory. I suggest we use that to our full advantage.

They will probably send scouts to explore ahead and report to their generals of their surroundings, so I suggest you blind their army by finding and dealing with these scouts. I, however, can't give much advice on how to do so beyond ambushing them however possible.

While keeping them as blind as possible, we should also herd them to a place for our benefit, possibly through the use of small skirmishes. Should these skirmishes happen on forested areas, I suggest more flexible formations that can move freely through obstacles rather than the stiff walls of shield that are so effective in open areas. That being said, mobility would be of essence in skirmishes, so if they happen in open areas, perhaps your cavalry, small as it is, could take upon the task of harassing the enemy with the use of the complex bows I suggested? I have yet to hear word of how their development has gone. As for where to herd them, I would recommend anything that would limit the directions from where they can attack you, such as canyon or a big clearing in a dense forest. Having the high ground also helps.

Now, you can choose a good place, but you can always make it better.

I will recommend the defenses according to the manpower and time needed to make them: The most basic defense would be just a series of pits, followed by a long trench that covers all the directions they can attack you from. As for the dug earth, you can pile it behind the trench, so that they would have to climb it afterward. Afterward, consider the implementation of wooden spikes on the pit, trench, and or elevation, in the latter case facing towards the attackers. Lastly, a small barricade atop the wall would also help, giving coverture for your archers as they rain death from above.

That is one line of defense, but we can add more. Consider the making of just a low unmanned wall, something that a man could climb through but with great effort, designed for breaking any charge and make them easy picking as they trickle through it. This should make them into manageable groups for your horse archers, should they be ready for combat. Given their small number, I suggest this line of defense to be made within bow range of the first line, so that they may support the archers. Now, horse archers may be good at harassing enemies, but not so much at defending a position, so it may be for the best to have a place for them to fall back through once the numbers become too much for them or they run out of arrows, probably a bridge and gate on the far ends of the previous defense, should it encompass your army completely.

Lastly, the line of defense with the archers may also be overwhelmed, forcing them to fall back. Now comes the last line of defense I can think of: A series of wooden stakes grouped in the shape of arrowheads facing towards the enemy with opening between them. The aim of this stakes is to funnel the enemy armies to your heavy infantry into a frontal assault, where their big shields and spears would probe most effective. I would maybe suggest the use of pikes or other two-handed weapons, but it is of my understanding that your supply of iron is limited so shields are needed least they could be brought down by arrows with ease. Speaking of arrows, once they fall back and your infantry lets them through, your arches could position themselves behind the spikes and continue to harrass the enemy.

As you might have noticed, I put heavy emphasis on the use of archers. The bow is truly a wondrous weapon, as long as it has arrows. I suggest the use of big pots and or vases to hold as many arrows as possible within arm length of the archers, though just having many arrows stuck to the ground in front of you is also common practice when preparing to stand and shoot at an incoming enemy, not so much when you expect to fall back to other positions to continue shooting. Has the use of the big yet simple bows as tall as men widespread in the five years of your absence? That would be of great help.

As for how to earn more manpower should your army not be enough, it is not uncommon for women and children to move in times of war, either because the warriors prefer to have their loved ones in a nearby camp, a practice I'm unfamiliar with but I assume is done mostly out of necessity, to escape enemies that might raid and plunder their settlements, or because they survived said raids. If not, I suppose you could always order them to help protect their homes nonetheless. As such, it might be for the best to use these non-warriors for the cutting of trees and horses or any other beasts of burden at your disposal to carry the wood.

Of course, a smart army would rarely walk straight into a deathtrap, so you will have to somehow conceal these defenses, maybe feasible with the pits but not so much with the barricade unless they underestimate its efficiency, or give them no other option. A way of doing this would be making it necessary for them to end the war quickly, possibly by destroying or stealing their supplies, the first being obviously easier with the use of fire or poison. Should they make use of supply lines, those will need to be disturbed. Should they raid or demand supply from nearby settlements, stripping the land of such resources might be the way to go. Poisoning the rivers, salting the field, or burning down everything are ways of doing this that I would suggest only in the most desperate of situations, however, as it lowers the value and of your own lands. Emptying stores of food, herding animals away, or filling wells with sand that, I assume, can be removed at a dater late are less drastic practices I would suggest. Should you succeed in this, their options will potentially be limited to only attack or starve. Be careful, though, a cornered animal is often the one that fights the hardest. Another option would be making them think irrationally, such as by making them lose their temper. I leave how to do so up to you.

It is my hope that these tactics may help you archive victory against your enemies, good luck in your warring, Great Bianca.

Source, important stuff starts around 9:10.


Any suggestions? Anything you think I should change, add, or remove?
 
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My fellow Voices. I again remind everyone that we cannot simply destroy all food in front of Bianca's enemies, as the Nine share no common border with them and the enemy Army would march and forage on lands of many outsider tribes, not our land. Better warn these outsider tribes than enrage them and add to your enemies.

We should harass moving enemy force and destroy and poison their carts and wagons with food if possible, yes.

My apologies if some of our words sound chaotic, even more than it was always the case. We talk not only to you but also argue with each other, sometimes with whispers that you cannot hear properly. My apologies.
Adhoc vote count started by liberty90 on Jul 8, 2019 at 5:02 PM, finished with 62 posts and 7 votes.

  • [X] [Defiance] Demonic Spoon
    [X] [Cacophony] liberty90
    [X] Dragon
    [X] [Defiance] EmptyHusk
    [X] [Cacophony] EmptyHusk
    [X] [Cacophony] CraftingDragon
 
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My fellow Voices. I again remind everyone that we cannot simply destroy all food in front of Bianca's enemies, as the Nine share no common border with them and the enemy Army would march and forage on lands of many outsider tribes, not our land. Better warn these outsider tribes than enrage them and add to your enemies.

We should harass moving enemy force and destroy and poison their carts and wagons with food if possible, yes.

Did you hear my suggestion, as it did not contain the suggestion of destroying outside tribe foods. Some pointers on this issue.

-The size of their army makes it infeasible to forage the food needeed. They need to either bring it with them from wrul or raid it from the tribes between Wrul and the 9.

-If they raid it on the way they will have to fight for it, wich mean they will loose men, tough warning theese outsiders could be a good idea as then they will better defend these sourses of food.

-If they bring it from Wrul those is the food we can easily hit and try to destroy. An army that size will probably have a hard time to bring that much food as they go, so at least if they are not doing heavy raiding on their way there will probably be food caravans coming after the army, these is what we want to hit.

-It is not feasible to go and meet the Army of Wrul to the wery edge of our lands, because of things I have earlier mentioned, as one example our food managment and our devious plans to harash them, from these of our areas we should empty all edible and valuable (except some cursed items)
 
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