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Hum. Annoying that I have to say this, but I don't wanna see a townie die. Might be too late if I wait for someone to change votes, after all. Atk's telling the truth.
 
Winged Cat said:
See The Game of Mafia Rules for example: 5 vanilla town + 1 detective + 2 mafia is considered balanced. (Granted, there's no roleblocker there - but there's no doctor either.) I can find as many other writeups as you want, but a lot of people believe that having a bunch of vanilla town is in fact balanced. (And I was just guessing 7/3; I said 8/2 was possible as well.)

Or are you trying to claim that the non-town and non-cult factions are biased against town? That's not what I'm claiming; the town/cult balance appears to be (or at least, the GM could plausibly have believed it to be) entirely independent of how many neutral there are.
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Yes, I am saying that these neutral factions are potentially biased against town. Both of them in your scenario can win with mafia so they can easily decide to ally with them and bleed town. There isn't any rule against them trying to play both sides after all so I can see people who were arguably allies the day before swapping sides to have a better chance to fulfill a personal goal.

Okay, say there is actually 2 people in each neutral faction and 3 players in the mafia (2 is too weak for this size). Then there is you being another neutral player. That means town only has 7 guaranteed players at the start of the game, 8 if I'm being generous and counting you. Town's power above all else is in its votes that it can field.

Having town not be the majority means it has very little power, especially when they don't have significant amounts of night powers to make up for it. Possibly losing the majority after the first game cycle makes town far too vulnerable, since requiring almost perfect play to win is horrible game design.

Yes, one of the Wizards/Hunters choosing to ally themselves with town would give town 10/15 players which is nominally balanced until you realize that all 5 of the remaining would function as mafia, making town far too weak again. Having my thoughts be based on game balance to an extent isn't always the best thing but not having town contain a concrete majority from the start is a bit far for poor balance.
 
Nanimani said:
Hum. Annoying that I have to say this, but I don't wanna see a townie die. Might be too late if I wait for someone to change votes, after all. Atk's telling the truth.
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If you can get someone else to vote for shadow, and you vote for shadow too, I'll change my vote to shadow. That'll put shadow at 4, which would be greater than or equal to my tally (depending on who else switches).
 
Pawn Lelouch said:
Yes, I am saying that these neutral factions are potentially biased against town. Both of them in your scenario can win with mafia so they can easily decide to ally with them and bleed town. There isn't any rule against them trying to play both sides after all so I can see people who were arguably allies the day before swapping sides to have a better chance to fulfill a personal goal.
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Pawn Lelouch said:
Yes, one of the Wizards/Hunters choosing to ally themselves with town would give town 10/15 players which is nominally balanced until you realize that all 5 of the remaining would function as mafia
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Say what? They're better off if town/cult finishes faster. Which means they'd rather target mafia than town: that many less lynches that can randomly take out wizards/hunters.
 
Nanimani - Likely a target of a failed night kill, claims a power role. I like them right now even though I wasn't a fan of them day 1. Not scum at the very least, likely town.

TPK - I enjoy aggression and making moves that instigate discussion, I currently believe them to be town and being the first to claim as a vanilla I think is a positive indicator, however I disagree with their sentiments that a semblance of balance isn't assured. All of the games I think are designed to be balanced some are more successful than others, but the goal is to near balance.

Atk50 - Another Vanilla claim, one of the players that I seem to glance over forgetting my opinions on which generally means I don't have a strong feeling on them.

Bahn - Has a lurky style of play I'm not the largest fan of, I always seem to have suspicions on him and this game is no different. Starts on the Nani lynch train though more of a joking manner, leaves it when it gets serious but claims no one is suss, other than no one being suss its a fair statement there were things to analyze in that scenario on both ends. Starts to instill the idea that TPK is a jester though I don't buy the reasoning. We have him suggest we use the day to instill more investigation, but does nothing to promote it. Comes back later with an observational post and states he'd more likely side against TPK than Nani but allows doubt in the statement, a common distancing method, and doesn't put a vote on it (though they probably were both at high numbers at the time so that is fair). Day 2, a post check in/simple analysis on the mechanical effects of Winged Cat's claim. Joins the shadow Shinobi lynch. States belief in winged cat's claim is okay with the back-up lynch of them due to their claim's allegiance shifting implications. Once again on the milk day time for talking time as we still didn't get anything from Shinobi.
TLDR; Bahn is on my radar, not much to go off of, generally simple and distanced stances to take.

AlphaDelta - I had reviewed their posts a while ago and shared my thoughts, while much of their play is unsatisfactory it is correlated to their situation which I do not believe to be a lie. However they will always remain within my suspicions as being distant from the game shouldn't save people from being looked into.

Pawn Lelouch - I'm mostly neutral on them, posts seem fine though begin against Winged Cat is a rather simple claim even if I agree with it.

LostDeviljho - Roleblock claim after a day 1 claim of a familiar role (psuedo power role claim) to a previous game, now vanilla claim. Honestly I'm not getting much from their posts I couldn't put them strongly into any faction right now but I think I am more inclined to believe them to be town.

The Phoenixian/Cakestepid - Replacement player will always get some additional suspicion from me, as they get the benefit of having a free change in play/opinions due to being a different player, "revealed" to have visited TPK this isn't indicative of anything other than a visiting role, I want to see more from Cakestepid but Phoenixian didn't come off as scum to me. ADDENDUM: Not getting the results of the last player's actions is a large exclamation mark over their head.

Megaolix - Seems town to me, vanilla claim, I can't really place my reasoning why and that frustrates me a bit. I wish they were a bit more aggressive and forward then they have been as I've seen them be in the past.

ComiTurtle - I'm town, hi guys. Don't worry about the sword of Damocles hanging over my head.

Rikimaru - I fluctuate on Rikimaru, sometimes I agree with their statements and most other times I completely disagree with them, they vote a lot which I'm not against, they try and put pressure and they are active, so not someone I'd necessarily want on the pyre.

Shadow shinobi - Claims Hunter a tracker role, new player play hasn't impressed me, and I wish they were more active, also wish they would do one of these list analysis. However claiming hunter after Winged Cat's claim is brave and they provided quite a bit of info, I'm okay with them surviving even if how they convinced me is less than optimal.

Joebobjoe - Had a previous analysis of their post log, very fence sitting, so my analysis is similar to my Bahn analysis. They even have a very similar number of posts.

Winged Cat - Personally really like their use of Phoenix Wright images. I'm on the side that I don't fully believe their claim, I also don't think the complexity of their claim is a point towards honesty. I don't think they are the most important person to be lynched today, however can't say I'm against their lynch as they are claimed non-town and that is a positive lynch target if any no matter how you look into it.
 
So uh, this is gonna put a massive flag over my head, and rightfully so, but uh, I did fuck up and get the results of the Phoenician's actions. He watched TPK and turned up nothing. I fully admit this was my mistake and no fault of Terrabrand.
 
Cakestepid said:
So uh, this is gonna put a massive flag over my head, and rightfully so, but uh, I did fuck up and get the results of the Phoenician's actions. He watched TPK and turned up nothing. I fully admit this was my mistake and no fault of Terrabrand.
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Since you're already here, are you claiming tracker or watcher?
 
Which is.. odd, considering you'd think that would be the Hunter's thing, instead of...

Actually, @Cakestepid , what is your profession?
 
Winged Cat said:
If you can get someone else to vote for shadow, and you vote for shadow too, I'll change my vote to shadow. That'll put shadow at 4, which would be greater than or equal to my tally (depending on who else switches).
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Except Shadow Shinobi being a lookout is totally possible and as I had posted earlier, fits with their actions. Investigative roles who are scared of being killed before enough research

Cakestepid said:
Tracker, I think is the term? I basically stalk the person and see who they visit.
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and bam. No clash in their roles. One looks at what the target does, and the other looks at the target and sees who visits them.

Nanimani I think atk50, bahn, joebobjoe or wingedcat should be be lynched today. Though I would go with what ComiTurtle recommends today.

I have mentioned previously that Megaolix and ComiTurtle's various anaylsis and behaviour changed them from "possibly scum" in my mind to strongly believing them to be town.

Doing another list by faction thing. I would like opinions on it as I probably didn't notice something important.

Town: Nanimani, TPK, Pawn Lelouch, Cakestepid, Megaolix, Comiturtle, Rikimaru (me :) ), Shadow Shinobi. That is 8 town I am happy about in my mind. I do feel weird believing Shadow Shinobi after so long thinking they were a scum, but their role is believable and it works with cakestepids roleclaim and also with TPK's vanilla claim (tracker didn't see tpk visiting anyone) now I mean maybe cakestepid, shadow shinobi and tpk are the scum faction but I highly doubt that. But that would be the alternative scum group.

Either way but more town than scum: Lostdeviljho (vanilla claim, not unbelievable what with there being a solid chunk of power claims too), Alphadelta can be used to replace any proven town in the scum section

Traditional wizard: wingedcat
Scum: atk50, bahn, joebobjoe

Dead: TMR (traditional wizard /2)
 
Rikimaru said:
Except Shadow Shinobi being a lookout is totally possible and as I had posted earlier, fits with their actions. Investigative roles who are scared of being killed before enough research



and bam. No clash in their roles. One looks at what the target does, and the other looks at the target and sees who visits them.

Nanimani I think atk50, bahn, joebobjoe or wingedcat should be be lynched today. Though I would go with what ComiTurtle recommends today.

I have mentioned previously that Megaolix and ComiTurtle's various anaylsis and behaviour changed them from "possibly scum" in my mind to strongly believing them to be town.

Doing another list by faction thing. I would like opinions on it as I probably didn't notice something important.

Town: Nanimani, TPK, Pawn Lelouch, Cakestepid, Megaolix, Comiturtle, Rikimaru (me :) ), Shadow Shinobi. That is 8 town I am happy about in my mind. I do feel weird believing Shadow Shinobi after so long thinking they were a scum, but their role is believable and it works with cakestepids roleclaim and also with TPK's vanilla claim (tracker didn't see tpk visiting anyone) now I mean maybe cakestepid, shadow shinobi and tpk are the scum faction but I highly doubt that. But that would be the alternative scum group.

Either way but more town than scum: Lostdeviljho (vanilla claim, not unbelievable what with there being a solid chunk of power claims too), Alphadelta can be used to replace any proven town in the scum section

Traditional wizard: wingedcat
Scum: atk50, bahn, joebobjoe

Dead: TMR (traditional wizard /2)
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Something I think I should point out: atk50's town.
 
You may need to spell it out for the class, or would you like me to just spill what I'm pretty certain you're trying to say?
 
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