Warhammer 40k General thread

There is no way for that love to be equalised when there are at least nine different Space Marine factions, compared to how many there are for all the rest. This is a farce of a suggestion, and I suspect you know that.
Just because something cannot be done overnight or done without effort within a company doesn't mean it cannot be done flat out. Not that I think it likely, but I see nothing inherently impossible about nor any bad faith in the suggestion.
 
Why is it that so many people repeat the Tau sterilize Gu'vesa meme?

I wouldn't call it a myth because the Tau do in fact in certain circumstances sterilize people. But it is not the norm.

Neither is the mind control. Atleast not any more then the IOM where almost every important figure has been subject to Mind Control like what the Scholorya Program and Hypno indoctrination do.
 
Why is it that so many people repeat the Tau sterilize Gu'vesa meme?

I wouldn't call it a myth because the Tau do in fact in certain circumstances sterilize people. But it is not the norm.
I blame Dark Crusade personally. The Imperial-aligned narrator mentions a declining Human populatuon in the Tau ending and implies something sinister on their part. Of course, some people can never let anything go it so gets repeated ad nauseum along with all the other fanon that plagues the community.
 
Trying to look something up: I vaguely remember rogue trader or dark heresy including a sorcerous monacle?/pair of glasses? In the sorcerous artefacts list.
With it rendering the user capable of reading any language put in front of them, but eventually it starts tricking them or corrupting them or something like that.
With some mention that it's not a unique artefact and is one of those bits of sorcerous contraband that pops up periodically.

Does anyone remember what the name of the thing was? Or which book I should go to to look it up?
It could be useful for a fanfic I'm not sure how much progress I'll make on.
 
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Why is it that so many people repeat the Tau sterilize Gu'vesa meme?

I wouldn't call it a myth because the Tau do in fact in certain circumstances sterilize people. But it is not the norm.

Neither is the mind control. Atleast not any more then the IOM where almost every important figure has been subject to Mind Control like what the Scholorya Program and Hypno indoctrination do.
Because humans must be the good guys, or at least the least bad, of course. That's why the only faction in the setting that, unlike Imperium, dares to use diplomacy as their first resort rather than last must be smeared with mud, while Imperium in general and Space Marines specifically — whitewashed to marble.
 
Trying to look something up: I vaguely remember rogue trader or dark heresy including a sorcerous monacle?/pair of glasses? In the sorcerous artefacts list.
With it rendering the user capable of reading any language put in front of them, but eventually it starts tricking them or corrupting them or something like that.
With some mention that it's not a unique artefact and is one of those bits of sorcerous contraband that pops up periodically.

Does anyone remember what the name of the thing was? Or which book I should go to to look it up?
It could be useful for a fanfic I'm not sure how much progress I'll make on.
Dark Heresy, Radical's Handbook, p. 175
Article:
Occult Artefacts

the lens of seeing
This artefact appears as nothing more than a simple monocle, similar to those worn by the aristocracy across the Imperium. Close inspection will show the lens itself is made from the finest crystal, with none of the usual marks left by mechanical polishers. The frame is gold wire, engraved with tiny symbols and sigils, and comes with a length of fine chain so the lens can easily be attached to one's clothing.
A curious and almost benign artefact—unlike many creations of the malefic arts—the Lens of Seeing was in fact shaped by the Radical Inquisitor Immel Amud. He sought to use it for the Imperium's benefit, seeking a way to decipher the oft-encoded tomes found in the possession of cultists and sorcerers. For a time, the Lens proved to be a valued tool in his crusade against the forces of Chaos, allowing Amud to clearly read even the most minor of notes, thus laying the cultists' plans out in the open to be countered. But eventually the fickle nature of the warp made itself known, and Amud discovered far too late the price the Lens asks for its services.
Driven to near madness by his obsession with secrets the Lens revealed, Amud met his end when a supposedly minor gathering of cultists proved to have ten times that number. Slain in the ensuing battle, Amud's body was eventually recovered, but the Lens was not to be found.

using the lens of seeing
Activating the Lens requires an Ordinary (+10) Invocation Test and a Full Action. Once the Lens has been activated, it will make any text viewed through it legible to the character regardless of origin. This includes text written in various xenos tongues, ciphers, codes, and the like. The effect lasts as long as the character reads one particular text. If he switches to a new book, he must reactivate the Lens.
The Lens, while quite useful, isn't without its hazards. Each individual use of the Lens causes the character to gain 1 Insanity Point. Keep this total separate from any other Insanity Points the character may gain. Once the character gains 10 Insanity Points from using the Lens, he must make a Trauma Test as described on page 234 of the Dark heresy Rulebook. However, failure doesn't result in a roll on the Mental Trauma table; it simply reflects how much control over the character the Lens has.
As the character gains Insanity Points (and potentially fails Trauma Tests) he becomes more and more possessive of the Lens, until eventually he will refuse to be without it. In addition, once the character reaches 40 Insanity Points, he will double-check all written documents with the Lens, looking for hidden meanings and secret messages. Once he reaches 60 Insanity Points, he will only read documents via the Lens, and once he reaches 80 Insanity Points he will have lost the ability to read anything unless using the Lens. In addition, once the character has 60 Insanity Points and is totally dependent on the Lens, the accursed monocle will begin to alter the content of whatever the character is reading, subtly changing words and sentences.

Personally I think the mechanics for it are too harsh, too much of a deterministic doom spiral. I'd switch things up, make it so the insanity gain only applies on a failed invocation, and is 1d5-2 (min zero) - or maybe something based on degrees of failure - instead of a flat 1 per use. Variable invocation difficulty based on how much actual hidden content there is, too. That way, there's a "preview" of the endgame distortions, and somebody with the right sort of hubris can think to themselves "aha, so I just need to max out my stats for that invocation roll," and routinely checking innocuous documents can actually make some OOC sense, but eventually they'll come across something with an extra-nasty stack of hidden layers and get a bad roll at the same time.
 
Personally I think the mechanics for it are too harsh, too much of a deterministic doom spiral.
I'd remembered people commenting that in the past.
I'd thought It's too problematic for an individual to get much use out of it, but for an organization, assigning one person at a time to make translations, then building a language translation or code breaking schema off of the magical translations, should be worthwhile.

Of course I'd also misremembered and thought it'd be possible to get ahold of it without needing to encounter the only one in existence(and probably be in the Calixis sector to encounter it).
Edit: I'm just gonna go with: the lens is being prodded around by Tzeentch, and it'll show up in whichever place the god of hope, magic, and knowledge wants it to show up. To justify it showing up far afield from the Calixis sector.
That or include an artefact 'whose creation was inspired by the lens of seeing' in much the same role of being moved around by a chaos god.
 
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Why is it that so many people repeat the Tau sterilize Gu'vesa meme?

I wouldn't call it a myth because the Tau do in fact in certain circumstances sterilize people. But it is not the norm.

Neither is the mind control. Atleast not any more then the IOM where almost every important figure has been subject to Mind Control like what the Scholorya Program and Hypno indoctrination do.
40K runs into the issue that the IoM is supposed to be the worst regime imaginable and nakedly the bad guys... but it's also the predominant human polity [or only major one, if you count out the likes of Demiurge], and it cannot consistently decide if it was that way by its own decision / errors or forced there by an equally terrible galaxy.

Personally I prefer a T'au Empire that is perhaps not much better than the Cardassians or Klingons or Romulans... but could at least exist in such a setting as Star Trek without being comically over-the-top mustache twirling villains. Likewise Craftworld Eldar for whom Biel-Tan was an exception not the rule, and while they are still struggling with the collapse of the Eldar Empire comparatively being about as far back as Spain's loss of its American colonies, are not actively malicious to the remaining species that aren't equally malicious in kind. Etc. But for some people that's the selling point of 40K.
 
Because humans must be the good guys, or at least the least bad, of course. That's why the only faction in the setting that, unlike Imperium, dares to use diplomacy as their first resort rather than last must be smeared with mud, while Imperium in general and Space Marines specifically — whitewashed to marble.
I have heard fans shaming the Tau for using diplomacy and how the water caste are manipulators for using diplomacy to solve conflicts.

Drinking the own in universe Kool-Aid
I blame Dark Crusade personally. The Imperial-aligned narrator mentions a declining Human population in the Tau ending and implies something sinister on their part. Of course, some people can never let anything go it so gets repeated ad nauseum along with all the other fanon that plagues the community.
What happened is that the human population of the planet committed high treason by killing their Tau neighbors and once the Tau came back into power they put the traitors into single sex reeducation/prison camps. Which they couldn't breed because it was a sex segregated prison.
 
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What happened is that the human population of the planet committed high treason by killing their Tau neighbors and once the Tau came back into power they put the traitors into single sex reeducation/prison camps. Which they couldn't breed because it was a sex segregated prison.
...like, the entire human population of a planet? How many people we talking about here?
 
It is a remarkable feature of human culture in 40k that it hasn't really changed much over the last 9,000 years. In-universe, that would make the IoM the most successful and stable human civilization in all of history, which is... bizarre, to say the least.
Errr. Going from atheism to a theocracy is a huge change.

The state of the church also swings between a bureaucracy hierarchy similar to Catholics and then revelation based or insert Protestant heresy and these sects fight all the time.
I have heard fans shaming the Tau for using diplomacy and how the water caste are maiiputaors for using diplomacy to solve conflicts.

Drinking the own in universe Kool-Aid

What happened is that the human population of the planet committed high treason by killing their Tau neighbors and once the Tau came back into power they put the traitors into single sex reeducation/prison camps. Which they couldn't breed because it was a sex segregated prison.

View: https://youtu.be/BYAjyJvPFfI?si=-XCFA9ZdYSXS1nbu
The reeducation camps is blamed yes but narrator says rumours about sterilisation needed to explain birth rate dropping to 5%.
 
Errr. Going from atheism to a theocracy is a huge change.

The state of the church also swings between a bureaucracy hierarchy similar to Catholics and then revelation based or insert Protestant heresy and these sects fight all the time.


View: https://youtu.be/BYAjyJvPFfI?si=-XCFA9ZdYSXS1nbu
The reeducation camps is blamed yes but narrator says rumours about sterilisation needed to explain birth rate dropping to 5%.

That ending isn't even cannon.

Is that where this all came from a decades old non cannon video game ending?
 
That ending isn't even cannon.

Is that where this all came from a decades old non cannon video game ending?
Yeah, IIRC Dawn of war also has a Khornite Sorcerer. It's clearly not the most faithful to canon, people shouldn't take it too seriously on anything. It probably happened in broad strokes but some things clearly aren't applicable.

Trying to use it as evidence that the Tau are secretly awful to humans is obvious motivated reasoning. If sterilization was actually routine Tau policy it would've been featured in primary GW approved media like an army book, not in an optional ending for a decade old spinoff game.
 
never underestimate the power of grognards to blow up minor details into something they can scream about for 20 years
 
Yeah, IIRC Dawn of war also has a Khornite Sorcerer. It's clearly not the most faithful to canon, people shouldn't take it too seriously on anything. It probably happened in broad strokes but some things clearly aren't applicable.

Trying to use it as evidence that the Tau are secretly awful to humans is obvious motivated reasoning. If sterilization was actually routine Tau policy it would've been featured in primary GW approved media like an army book, not in an optional ending for a decade old spinoff game.
If Arrows are borderline sorcery then bullets are deep in Magicland. Khorne does lots of pewpew therefore he's fine with it as long as you're not being a freaking nerd
 
Eh. From the assassin's, inquisition.... Lots has changed.

We just getting the same lack of details that led so many people to claim Chinese dynasties had the same culture.
I still feel the lmperium has changed a lot less in 9,000 years than China did in 5,000, and China was still remarkably stable by the standards of real life civilizations, even if the western view of its evolution is rather underestimated.
 

View: https://www.instagram.com/p/C7SwWjItVhe/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

The current Cyning of the Greymanes was once merely regarded as a clodhopping, impetuous punk. He was recruited by the Chapter after a battle in which the brave young warrior, alone against the forces of his fratricidal uncle, wreaked a terrible vengeance on them near the settlement of Riverdon. He, out of all the Aethelings, took hold of the dark blade Caladbolg after the death of Njord Greymane during the Winter of Woes. Since then, Godwyn has led the chapter through his fair share of travails with a wisdom tempered by experience.
 
I still feel the lmperium has changed a lot less in 9,000 years than China did in 5,000, and China was still remarkably stable by the standards of real life civilizations, even if the western view of its evolution is rather underestimated.
A civilisation that flips between libertarianism laissez-faire economy to govt monopoly to licensing in the space of a few centuries is hardly "stable".

We just don't have the granular details to see the differences in Imperium culture. We know that what is once orthodoxy can change into heresy in the space of a hundred years. That kind of reformation can be huge ....


Certainly the Nova division, the powers and roles of the church has changed. Note that Vandire true warning was how control of the Administration could be merged with holy power and dominate the Imperium, something we never see again. The bureaucracy has been nipped in terms of power politics in modern 40k.
 
Yeah, IIRC Dawn of war also has a Khornite Sorcerer. It's clearly not the most faithful to canon, people shouldn't take it too seriously on anything. It probably happened in broad strokes but some things clearly aren't applicable.

Trying to use it as evidence that the Tau are secretly awful to humans is obvious motivated reasoning. If sterilization was actually routine Tau policy it would've been featured in primary GW approved media like an army book, not in an optional ending for a decade old spinoff game.
Technically, DOW 2 had a sorcerer pledge his soul to Khorne, ascending to Daemonhood via the exterminatus of multiple planets.


He wasn't using his psychic powers anymore so it's not that bad. What's BAD is that he used trickery to get the Imperium to exterminatus the planets, with the chaos Blood Ravens attempt at genocide foiled by your faction.

Khorne wouldn't have approved of that. My own headcanon is that it was Tzentech going just as planned, so he could fuck up the Alpha Legion, the Black Legion, Blood Ravens, two Craftworld expeditionary forces, the Nids and an entire Imperial sector.


Only winner was Captain Bloodflagg who got his fancy hat.
 
Technically, DOW 2 had a sorcerer pledge his soul to Khorne, ascending to Daemonhood via the exterminatus of multiple planets.


He wasn't using his psychic powers anymore so it's not that bad. What's BAD is that he used trickery to get the Imperium to exterminatus the planets, with the chaos Blood Ravens attempt at genocide foiled by your faction.

Khorne wouldn't have approved of that. My own headcanon is that it was Tzentech going just as planned, so he could fuck up the Alpha Legion, the Black Legion, Blood Ravens, two Craftworld expeditionary forces, the Nids and an entire Imperial sector.


Only winner was Captain Bloodflagg who got his fancy hat.
I don't buy that just abstaining from using psychic powers would be enough for Khorne. I mean, he's not exactly the forgiving sort and the Chaos Gods as a whole aren't known for their proportionality. Surely he'd have a one strike rule where if someone uses sorcery for any amount of time they're tainted in his eyes?

It just doesn't pass the smell test for me. It makes much more sense that the series just played fast and loose with canon.
 
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