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Unpopular opinions we have on fiction

"Let's go! open up, it's time for Unpop!"
Alright, time for my mandatory Unpopular Opinions Post. Let's get this over with.
"You're late. You know the deal. You can Omelaspost for a Funny, or you can make an interesting post for an Insightful."
Here in Unpopular Opinions Poster Civilisation, no one chooses to make interesting posts. It's better to make the one joke everyone knows for the Funny, rather than risk your entire life for just one Insightful rating.
"Tomorrow you better not be late, or I'll have you posting for Informative reactions as punishment."
"Yes sir, sorry, I won't be late next time."

Down here, us Omelasposters only get one Rating a day. One Funny rating is just enough to get your post:reaction ratio to the next day. But that's the life of Unpopular Opinions Poster Civilisation. If you wanna survive, you have to Unpopular Opinions Post. Every Omelasposter has the same goal, and that's to make it to the top thread, where all the Brothers Karamazovposters live. Except, most Brothers Karamazovposters are born on the top thread. If you're an Omelasposter, there's only one way up, and that is through the Temple of Unpopular Opinions. The Temple of Unpopular Opinions is the only structure on SV that combines the bottom thread to the top thread. To make it up, you have to post an impossibly hard Unpopular Opinion Reply that no Omelasposter has ever completed. And that's assuming you even get the chance to post the reply in the thread. The inside of the Temple is protected by a barrier and the only way an Omelasposter gets past the barrier is if they've earned a gilded post. I've never even tried getting a gilded post before, but if I'm going to rank up to a Brothers Karamazovposter one day, I'm gonna have to.
 
MysticKnightJoe said:
Also holy shit I am so tired of all discussion of fantasy as a genre being filtered through Dungeons and Dragons. "Chaotic Evil" isn't real, it was made up by the game system so you could quickly label things in game and give shorthand info to the player, and it can be replaced pretty easily as Pathfinder shows with Holy/Unholy.

The idea you are playing "The Good Guys" in D&D is also relatively new. In the original game you are playing a band of mercs out for treasure. You would go into dungeons and usually die. Heroic quest style stories became more common as the game expanded and picked up influence from other examples of Fantasy in the genre space.

I do enjoy D&D/Pathfinder but it is very much becoming a personal gripe for me that it feels like stuff made up for the games just end up becoming the lens through which all fantasy is analyzed and constructed because frankly it doesn't actually work.
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That's really not true. Some of the first adventures were stuff like "scourge of the slavelords", that's the "A" series, all the way back in 1980,

Also, I'll note that "eternal low level" wasn't a design feature either, Spindle of Heaven was in 1985 and that was for level 26-36 characters.
 
Broke: The invaders are from a an evil empire where one emperor rules supreme and everyone toils in misery under their command.
Woke: The invaders are from a (semi-?) democratic republic where the citizenry has decided that conquering you and taking your wealth is in their interest.
Bespoke: The empire next door with an absolute monarch comes to your aid because it is in their interest to hinder the republic.
 
Tyran said:
They were talking about "life and history", which is real life.

If they had said "I like pew pew alien enemies" it would be a very different thing.
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Nature, which has been entertained genocides since billions of years : "I totally see your point there !"

On a more serious note, genocides is common in nature, for different reasons. A prey which doesn't evolve enough to escape a new predator or a change of climate, a specie where all the food has been stolen by another specie, a contagious disease and so on, and so on, there are a bunch of different ways why a specie disappear. And I have no doubts, that if the specie has some kind of conscience, the reason of its disappearance is coming from something always chaotic evil it cannot comprehend. The same way that people accused the Devil as the reason of the plagues affecting them. Even if the genocide is not the original goal of what's killing it, the result is still there, a genocide.

What I mean, if you bring "life, history and real life" in a discussion, don't forget that these things are not limited to humans, and that we are running on a small planet where genocides is the norm, not the exception.

EDIT : And btw, I forget about it, but humanity is doing this actually. We are doing a big number of unintended genocides because of development, so, it wil be easy for another specie to consider us as a always chaotic evil, because, mostly, we absolutely don't care about all these things we are killing, which is probably evilest than to enjoy killing.
 
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Genocide is not when you kill a lot of things. It has an actual meaning so that it can be taken seriously. It is specifically an action and not a result.
 
There should be a point in between Always Chaotic Evil and everyone being UwU soft teddy bears where different races/factions just have different interests and values with different groups within those races/factions having different takes on those interests and values.

Sometimes that means Orcs wanting to prove their manly manliness and get some sweet loot raiding villages.

Sometimes that means Orcs remembering that the last time they were minions for this Lich guy he treated them like trash and now they're some of the fiercest fighters against him.
 
MysticKnightJoe said:
To be nuanced. The Imperium tried to invade the Tau Empire, and instead of it being a simple clean up operation (Read Genocide) the Tau proceeded to absolutely hold their own. When I want to anger Space Marine players it becomes "Space Marines got utterly owned by Tau Battle suits."
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oh, well. Yeah. Space Marines don't have a ton on Tau Battlesuits, which are Dreadnoughts with mobility and better firepower. The Imperium has a ton of bodies, but I'd expect each battlesuit to account for five Space Marines unless one of the Marines is juicing some Warp narrative of inevitable victory.
 
FortePlus said:
Genocide is not when you kill a lot of things. It has an actual meaning so that it can be taken seriously. It is specifically an action and not a result.
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It doesn't really change anything at the end. Look : "Destroying purposely the natural habitat of a specie which will bring its disappearance because people need home or fields"
You have a mean in this destruction : they are in the way.

And it's easy to speak about meaning, when you know, I was speaking about others species which probably doesn't run on the same meaning as us. But if you think, it's better to say it's a massacre than a genocide, go ahead. At the end, the number of corpse will not change, whatever semantic you are using to defend the fact that humanity is not that bad in this case.

There is one way I can consider your argument fair maybe : in the beginning of H2G2 movie, earth and humanity are destroyed because they are on the way of a hypersapce bypass. You consider it's not a genocide too ?
 
Kaiya said:
oh, well. Yeah. Space Marines don't have a ton on Tau Battlesuits, which are Dreadnoughts with mobility and better firepower. The Imperium has a ton of bodies, but I'd expect each battlesuit to account for five Space Marines unless one of the Marines is juicing some Warp narrative of inevitable victory.
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Yeah see the latter there is what Space Marines always seem to be going on in the Lore. Damocles Gulf is fun because at last it doesn't feel like Space Marines have plot armor thicker than their actual armor
 
Kaiya said:
oh, well. Yeah. Space Marines don't have a ton on Tau Battlesuits, which are Dreadnoughts with mobility and better firepower. The Imperium has a ton of bodies, but I'd expect each battlesuit to account for five Space Marines unless one of the Marines is juicing some Warp narrative of inevitable victory.
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There is no way this is correct. Space Marines are overhyped by their fans but they're still supersoldiers, the finest soldiers in the Imperium. If the average Tau battlesuit was equal to five space marines there wouldn't have been a stalemate during the Damocles. It would've been a straight up Tau victory with Imperial troops routed wholeheartedly.

Space Marines can definitely suffer casualties if they treat Tau as an enemy they can engage in a conventional manner but they're already a force that excels at unconventional tactics. This assessment just doesn't add up.
 
Fourthspartan56 said:
There is no way this is correct. Space Marines are overhyped by their fans but they're still supersoldiers, the finest soldiers in the Imperium. If the average Tau battlesuit was equal to five space marines there wouldn't have been a stalemate during the Damocles. It would've been a straight up Tau victory with Imperial troops routed wholeheartedly.

Space Marines can definitely suffer casualties if they treat Tau as an enemy they can engage in a conventional manner but they're already a force that excels at unconventional tactics. This assessment just doesn't add up.
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Oh yeah to be clear, Space Marines are not helpless against the Tau, and the Damocles Gulf wasn't a complete wash on the part of the Imperium, but they definitely still lost a lot more than they could have ever expected against what they thought was a minor Xenos regional power.
 
MysticKnightJoe said:
Oh yeah to be clear, Space Marines are not helpless against the Tau, and the Damocles Gulf wasn't a complete wash on the part of the Imperium, but they definitely still lost a lot more than they could have ever expected against what they thought was a minor Xenos regional power.
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Yes. That it was a stalemate at all is an incredible accomplishment and demonstrates how much the Tau punch above their weight class.

Just that "1 Tau battlesuit is worth five Space Marines" is a wild claim that has no relation to canon. Battlesuits can definitely fuck up SMs if in a tactically advantageous position but that doesn't mean they have anything close to a ratio like that.
 
What is so weird about a walking tank being at least equal to five infantry dudes? Sure super infantry but shouldn't a Space Marine Dreadnought be a better comparison?
 
Being too lazy to count up the stats, I don't think saying one (1) miniature giant mechsuit with integrated jetpacks, sensors, up to and exceeding three weapon mounts, and markers for calling down drone fires is worth five (5) dudes in power armor with automatic grenade launchers is wild. If we want to mirror Space Marine and Tau orbats the counterpart to the Crisis Suit is the Space Marine dreadnaught, and you don't have to almost kill a Fire Warrior to get one :V
 
Axslashel said:
What is so weird about a walking tank being at least equal to five infantry dudes? Sure super infantry but shouldn't a Space Marine Dreadnought be a better comparison?
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No. That's not how this works, Space Marines are not "five infantry dudes". Every single piece of 40k media depicts them as supersoldiers with few peers.

They're not invulnerable and can be killed but they're certainly not a force that can be described so outright inferior. No one has provided a shred of evidence to support that claim.

Laplace said:
Being too lazy to count up the stats, I don't think saying one (1) miniature giant mechsuit with integrated jetpacks, sensors, up to and exceeding three weapon mounts, and markers for calling down drone fires is worth five (5) dudes in power armor with automatic grenade launchers is wild. If we want to mirror Space Marine and Tau orbats the counterpart to the Crisis Suit is the Space Marine dreadnaught, and you don't have to almost kill a Fire Warrior to get one :V
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I think it's enormously telling that everyone arguing in favor of that position has to describe Space Marines in the most vague and non-specific manner possible. If your position was actually true you wouldn't need to twist the facts.
 
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Fourthspartan56 said:
I think it's enormously telling that everyone arguing in favor of that position has to describe Space Marines in the most vague and non-specific manner possible. If your position was actually true you wouldn't need to twist the facts.
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Space Marines are just dudes in power armor when you get down to it. Ok they are faster and stronger than the average dude, they're tougher, for some reason they have funky xenomorph acid spit and they can eat brains for knowledge but come on. If they step on a land mine and get their leg blown off they have to go to the medic like any other dude. If they want to carry around heavy weaponry they can't move and shoot at the same time like dudes. I am quite confident in my portrayal of them. Maybe if I was doing an ic from the perspective of an imperium peasant I would do all sorts of tricks on their dicks but fi am not.
 
Fourthspartan56 said:
No. That's not how this works, Space Marines are not "five infantry dudes". Every single piece of 40k media depicts them as supersoldiers with few peers.

They're not invulnerable and can be killed but they're certainly not a force that can be described so outright inferior. No one has provided a shred of evidence to support that claim.


I think it's enormously telling that everyone arguing in favor of that position has to describe Space Marines in the most vague and non-specific manner possible. If your position was actually true you wouldn't need to twist the facts.
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In terms of tabletop points as of 10th edition, if I'm doing my lookup right, it matches surprisingly well to 5 marines to one crisis suit. Crisis Battlesuit units come 3 suits for 200 points, tactical squads come 10 for 140 points, so it's ~67 points per battlesuit vs 70 points for 5 marines.
 
Aineko said:
In terms of tabletop points as of 10th edition, if I'm doing my lookup right, it matches surprisingly well to 5 marines to one crisis suit. Crisis Battlesuit units come 3 suits for 200 points, tactical squads come 10 for 140 points, so it's ~67 points per battlesuit vs 70 points for 5 marines.
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Tabletop rules have never been 1:1 with lore. That's never been how 40k media has handled in-universe capabilities.
 
I thought this was talking about the Tau Stealth Suits, and was agreeing with the idea that a 1:5 ratio doesn't really make sense, they're more close to a 1:1 with a Space Marine

but it's actually about the Crisis+ Suits? yeah no, one of them absolutely could beat five regular Astartes lol
 
Corti said:
It doesn't really change anything at the end. Look : "Destroying purposely the natural habitat of a specie which will bring its disappearance because people need home or fields"
You have a mean in this destruction : they are in the way.

And it's easy to speak about meaning, when you know, I was speaking about others species which probably doesn't run on the same meaning as us. But if you think, it's better to say it's a massacre than a genocide, go ahead. At the end, the number of corpse will not change, whatever semantic you are using to defend the fact that humanity is not that bad in this case.

There is one way I can consider your argument fair maybe : in the beginning of H2G2 movie, earth and humanity are destroyed because they are on the way of a hypersapce bypass. You consider it's not a genocide too ?
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He's not defending ecocide as politically or ethically acceptable, chum; he's maintaining the specific and very important meaning of a specific and very important word.
 
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I mean, a stealth suit operated I think could absolutely take on five Space Marines, if the operator is doing so in advantageous terrain which enables hit and run strikes and is able to avoid return fire the whole time.

Really in combat it is not strictly the hard numbers that makes the difference, it's always the innumerable soft factors that determines outcomes.
 
ShyPerson said:
I mean, a stealth suit operated I think could absolutely take on five Space Marines, if the operator is doing so in advantageous terrain which enables hit and run strikes and is able to avoid return fire the whole time.

Really in combat it is not strictly the hard numbers that makes the difference, it's always the innumerable soft factors that determines outcomes.
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Fourthspartan56 said:
Battlesuits can definitely fuck up SMs if in a tactically advantageous position but that doesn't mean they have anything close to a ratio like that
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I hope this isn't meant to be a rebuttal to my position. Because if so you rather missed the point. I'm not the one making hard ratio claims, that's them.
 
Uhhhhhh.... I don't know enough to comment, but I do like the idea of these things the Imperium hold up as the greatest actually being stagnate and falling behind since it's all wrapped up in such ceremony that no one is really doing any research.
 
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