That's easy to understand simply because there's no reasonable reason for a ranged weapon to be designed to gain anything except accuracy from being used two handed.
LostDeviljho
Flame Dragon Princess
- Location
- The glorious Pacific Northwest
- Pronouns
- Any
and there is no way for a sword to have a caliber. Glad we understand each-other.
More like "no logical reason why a sword can't ignore the fact that an enemy is huge any less than a gun can".
A bow or a laser beam don't have a caliber either.
Edit:
Difference is that one has a description that specifics a condition on its use while the other doesn't.
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AsuraKyoko
The Witch who was known as the Goddess of War
- Location
- Brockton Bay
- Location
- Ekaterinburg, Russia
[X] [Buff] Crimson Hood
[X] [Exp] Save it
Right. Time to revise. Of note - Crimson hood with our blessing has 5000 HP, 1375 RES. Best not to let her close with Val and Balrogs, as they are out of her weight class. The Hound can probably deal with them just fine, though.
[X] Plan Challenge
-[X] Primary Wiccan - stays back, hides for now, and keeps an eye on surroundings. Keep an eye on her if you can. Her Notice-Me-Not will help keep her hidden.
-[X] Crimson Hood - hopefully stays back and ensures the spiders and possible other lesser beings don't interfere. Balrogs are a bit out of her weight class, Myth or no Myth. Balrogs have an Epic affinity. Tell her that, so she knows what she'd be getting into.
-[X] Toothy - distract those Balrogs, would you?
-[X] Summit - challenge Val-Kroppi to melee combat, loud and clear. Imply it a form of champion combat to make those Balrogs stay back, hopefully. Switch Panoply to Multi Slash, Crush, Collateral Damage and Anti-Air.
--[X] If Val-Kroppi decides to ignore you, blast him out of the air. Anti-Air ought to help, right? Try to make him pay attention to you. Once he engages you in melee, deflect one of his attacks then cut him down.
-[X] After Val-Kroppi is dealt with, call out to "Mighty Aer" if he is willing to treat with you. Switch Panoply to Darkslayer, Multi Shot, Danmaku and Heavy Caliber.
--[X] If Aer and Balrogs agree to speak to you, convince them to launch an attack at Unified Darkness.
--[X] If Aer refuses and orders Balrog guards to continue, blast the closest one in the face with Wave Force. Simultaneously, use your radio to order Wiccan and Hood to retreat and convey your plan to cause a massive cave-in and lure the Balrogs (and other local monsters) to surface. And, while you're at it, check all the guard Balrogs out for affinities.
--[X] Kill one of the guard Balrogs quickly (verify it does have Epic affinity), and don't let up on the Wave Force. Distract one of remaining Balrogs (deflecting its attacks via skill) even as Toothy distracts the other one, and Wiccan and Hood retreat. Consider making a Stabilized Shifting portal for them to escape to (hopefully no longer guarded and away from any enemies) chasm entrance. Once they're out of destruction zone, switch out (probably Heavy Caliber and Darkslayer) for Ray and Collateral Damage, then shoot the ceilings of the cave to cause the entire thing come down, in such a way the chasm entrance is kept open.
--[X] Escape, either through the chasm entrance (if the local monsters will need to be lured to UD lines still), or (if the local monsters are likely to rush out and into UD battle lines), by teleporting to Wiccan's location and having her use Delusional Illusion to evacuate the party. Re-emerge outside of fortress entrance, out of sight, to check on the results.
@LostDeviljho @kelllogo - can Wiccan use her Doublethink to remove one of Balrogs (or Val-Kroppi, for that matter) from the field instantly, and will it mean that escaping into her world will force us to battle the one removed? Also - say we escape into Delusional Illusion - how difficult would it be to emerge from it somewhere not immediately dangerous, like outside the fortress, or back at the base?
Also - how large is the chamber itself? I'm trying to figure out if if can be crossed with a single use of Shifting. And whether Summit can create a Stabilized Shifting in short order to (for example) teleport her allies to the chasm entrance that the guard Balrogs have so conveniently abandoned.
[X] [Exp] Save it
Right. Time to revise. Of note - Crimson hood with our blessing has 5000 HP, 1375 RES. Best not to let her close with Val and Balrogs, as they are out of her weight class. The Hound can probably deal with them just fine, though.
[X] Plan Challenge
-[X] Primary Wiccan - stays back, hides for now, and keeps an eye on surroundings. Keep an eye on her if you can. Her Notice-Me-Not will help keep her hidden.
-[X] Crimson Hood - hopefully stays back and ensures the spiders and possible other lesser beings don't interfere. Balrogs are a bit out of her weight class, Myth or no Myth. Balrogs have an Epic affinity. Tell her that, so she knows what she'd be getting into.
-[X] Toothy - distract those Balrogs, would you?
-[X] Summit - challenge Val-Kroppi to melee combat, loud and clear. Imply it a form of champion combat to make those Balrogs stay back, hopefully. Switch Panoply to Multi Slash, Crush, Collateral Damage and Anti-Air.
--[X] If Val-Kroppi decides to ignore you, blast him out of the air. Anti-Air ought to help, right? Try to make him pay attention to you. Once he engages you in melee, deflect one of his attacks then cut him down.
-[X] After Val-Kroppi is dealt with, call out to "Mighty Aer" if he is willing to treat with you. Switch Panoply to Darkslayer, Multi Shot, Danmaku and Heavy Caliber.
--[X] If Aer and Balrogs agree to speak to you, convince them to launch an attack at Unified Darkness.
--[X] If Aer refuses and orders Balrog guards to continue, blast the closest one in the face with Wave Force. Simultaneously, use your radio to order Wiccan and Hood to retreat and convey your plan to cause a massive cave-in and lure the Balrogs (and other local monsters) to surface. And, while you're at it, check all the guard Balrogs out for affinities.
--[X] Kill one of the guard Balrogs quickly (verify it does have Epic affinity), and don't let up on the Wave Force. Distract one of remaining Balrogs (deflecting its attacks via skill) even as Toothy distracts the other one, and Wiccan and Hood retreat. Consider making a Stabilized Shifting portal for them to escape to (hopefully no longer guarded and away from any enemies) chasm entrance. Once they're out of destruction zone, switch out (probably Heavy Caliber and Darkslayer) for Ray and Collateral Damage, then shoot the ceilings of the cave to cause the entire thing come down, in such a way the chasm entrance is kept open.
--[X] Escape, either through the chasm entrance (if the local monsters will need to be lured to UD lines still), or (if the local monsters are likely to rush out and into UD battle lines), by teleporting to Wiccan's location and having her use Delusional Illusion to evacuate the party. Re-emerge outside of fortress entrance, out of sight, to check on the results.
@LostDeviljho @kelllogo - can Wiccan use her Doublethink to remove one of Balrogs (or Val-Kroppi, for that matter) from the field instantly, and will it mean that escaping into her world will force us to battle the one removed? Also - say we escape into Delusional Illusion - how difficult would it be to emerge from it somewhere not immediately dangerous, like outside the fortress, or back at the base?
Also - how large is the chamber itself? I'm trying to figure out if if can be crossed with a single use of Shifting. And whether Summit can create a Stabilized Shifting in short order to (for example) teleport her allies to the chasm entrance that the guard Balrogs have so conveniently abandoned.
- Location
- Ekaterinburg, Russia
Yeah. And I still say I am a crappy armchair general.
It's just that nobody else seems to want to rise up to the challenge.
- Location
- UTC -6
If Wiccan drags enemies into her world and later uses Delusional Illusion near that spot the enemies will be present. Unless one of the Wiccanland critters dealt with them, which still gives you issues.
Safety is hard to say. You are probably not going to get attacked instantly, but avoiding danger wouldt need detours. It does let you fly back to base if you follow Hood or Wiccan's directions.
The chamber is 300 meters long on its larger diameter and 90 meters wide for the shorter, roughly. Summit can make a shifting portal from anywhere in the chamber to anywhere else.
- Location
- Ekaterinburg, Russia
Okay. Operation "Wiccan disposes of Balrogs" is a no-go. Also, my interest was more in the ease of finding a decent spot to return back to Millidia to, for purposes of meeting again if emergency Delusional Illusion is needed to save our allies, which results in splitting the party. I figure out Gating is effective in bringing us out from Wiccanland to anywhere in Millidia, if at a delay.
Operation "Shift Allies out of Roar of the Destroyer range" is also a no-go. I'm going with a generous/conservative estimate that the attack travels at the speed of sound (duh), and dissipates after a second. As in, it has a range of ~340 meters, which in this situation covers the entire chamber. More's the pity. @kelllogo, what's the range of the Roar anyway?
- Location
- UTC -6
It depends. How angry is the balrog?
(I don't want to give/make hard numbers. Summit has a hunch that it doesn't cover as far as she can Shift, somehow, despite never seeing it in action.)
Something to note.
Considering his ability to turn into a flock of a triple digit number of birds and ignore any attack that doesn't hit ALL the birds, I think Danmaku is actually better for this than Anti-Air.
Anti-Air does more damage, but Danmaku makes the total number of birds we can hit with a single attack much larger.
For shooting an entire flock down, countless explosive rounds are better than a few super strong explosive rounds.
Unless Anti-Air also increases the quantity of projectiles for some reason?
- Location
- Earth
[X] [Buff] Crimson Hood
[X] Battle Plan no talking
-[X] cast Wave Force for Grand Dispel to shut down Balrog spells asap. keep them shut down
-[X] kill Val-Kroppi with Multi Shot, Anti-Air, Danmaku, Homing, Collateral Damage
-[X] kill Balrogs with Multi Shot, Heavy Caliber, Danmaku, Darkslayer, Collateral Damage
-[X] have Crimson Hood/Toothie take care of the spiders
[X] [EXP] EXP Planno talking
-[X] Versatility of Form III (490xp)
this plan assumes the three Balrogs are close enough together so that we can hit them all at once with Collateral Damage.
Should take 2 Attacks to kill all of them, if they are.
is that the case @kelllogo ?
Multi Shot, Anti-Air, Danmaku, Homing, Collateral Damage should create enough exploding/homing projectiles to hit all birds Val-Kroppi consists of.
[X] Battle Plan no talking
-[X] cast Wave Force for Grand Dispel to shut down Balrog spells asap. keep them shut down
-[X] kill Val-Kroppi with Multi Shot, Anti-Air, Danmaku, Homing, Collateral Damage
-[X] kill Balrogs with Multi Shot, Heavy Caliber, Danmaku, Darkslayer, Collateral Damage
-[X] have Crimson Hood/Toothie take care of the spiders
[X] [EXP] EXP Planno talking
-[X] Versatility of Form III (490xp)
this plan assumes the three Balrogs are close enough together so that we can hit them all at once with Collateral Damage.
Should take 2 Attacks to kill all of them, if they are.
is that the case @kelllogo ?
Multi Shot, Anti-Air, Danmaku, Homing, Collateral Damage should create enough exploding/homing projectiles to hit all birds Val-Kroppi consists of.
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I think we should either turn off the AOE when killing the Balrogs or kill the demon first, because otherwise the AOE will probably hit some but not all of the birds, causing the demon to become stronger.
- Location
- Earth
a valid concern. I switched the targets around.
- Location
- oregon, usa
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] [Buff] Crimson Hood
[X] Battle Plan no talking
-[X] cast Wave Force for Grand Dispel to shut down Balrog spells asap. keep them shut down
-[X] kill Val-Kroppi with Multi Shot, Anti-Air, Danmaku, Homing, Collateral Damage
-[X] kill Balrogs with Multi Shot, Heavy Caliber, Danmaku, Darkslayer, Collateral Damage
-[X] have Crimson Hood/Toothie take care of the spiders
[X] [EXP] EXP Planno talking
-[X] Versatility of Form III (490xp)
Ultimately, while I would prefer to avoid killing everything down here, on the principle that there need to be some left to make a mess of UD positions topside, I think that this lot are far more likely to head for our positions than the enemy's. So they probably have to die.
[X] Battle Plan no talking
-[X] cast Wave Force for Grand Dispel to shut down Balrog spells asap. keep them shut down
-[X] kill Val-Kroppi with Multi Shot, Anti-Air, Danmaku, Homing, Collateral Damage
-[X] kill Balrogs with Multi Shot, Heavy Caliber, Danmaku, Darkslayer, Collateral Damage
-[X] have Crimson Hood/Toothie take care of the spiders
[X] [EXP] EXP Planno talking
-[X] Versatility of Form III (490xp)
Ultimately, while I would prefer to avoid killing everything down here, on the principle that there need to be some left to make a mess of UD positions topside, I think that this lot are far more likely to head for our positions than the enemy's. So they probably have to die.
- Location
- UTC -6
Summit can cover all of them with Danmaku if she lines herself up right.
Is it correct to assume that Danmaku does a lot more for hitting all the birds at once than Anti-Air does, through more shots instead of stronger shots?
I still feel that the best way to kill the demon is to take advantage of the fact that his weapon is a glaive, something he shouldn't be able to use while transformed into a flock of birds. Wait for him to attempt to melee us with his glaive and then Intercept the attack so that the resulting Unblockable damage (which he shouldn't be able to dodge by turning back into birds) kills him.
- Location
- Ekaterinburg, Russia
Ah. Finally, discussion and alternate plans!
We have been told that Anti-Air is capable of bypassing defenses that are reliant on being airborne, like Supremacy Zone of Solid Core. I am hoping that Val-Kroppi's own no-sell of "I am now birds, hit them all or fail" is sufficiently close that Anti-Air can bypass it. That in addition to Collateral Damage being effectively flak (same discussion that gave us Anti-Air bypassing defenses).
Still... 3-Shot, Danmaku, Homing, CollD - 15300 damage... Right. Anti-Air will probably be excessive for this way of killing Val-Kroppi, so no need for Versatility of Form.
Plan no talking can probably be made even without it.
I highly doubt that, because the wording of the ability is such that it would work even if all the birds were perched on rocks and not moving. That sounds to me more like the kind of thing that you need something more like Unstoppable or Sudden Death to ignore.
The flak type stuff is for dealing with the fact that its hard to actually hit such a target. In this case we're dealing with an ability that says "even if you hit, your attack does nothing".
The issue is that we got told that the number of birds is in the triple digits. Even if we go for Multi-Shot + Danmaku + Anti-Air/Homing + Collateral Damage I'm not sure if we can actually hurt the flock form. Just due to the sheer number of birds and the size of the area.
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I interpreted it more as he transforms into a flock that's already triple digits and they're outright immune to damage unless you can hit all of them at once.
Sorta like how Morality Barriers work, just, you know, way less hax since its a mortal thing.
- Location
- UTC -6
The birds ignore damage unless it hits all of them. Summit hasn't managed to get a hit that hurts the murder, but is certain that's how it works.