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Under the Open Sky (CWMGQ Spinoff)

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Ray is the equivalent of holding the trigger down to keep firing. It's different enough from Laser that I would resolve it in a different attack, since a charged-up burst is quite distinct from spraying a firehose.

From a numbers standpoint Ray is better than Laser since it gives extra triggers of the Full-Auto and Slayer effects when it triggers. Danmaku alone makes a huge difference. On the other hand, filling everything with shots doesn't always fit the situation. A very tough gate or foe might multiply it's Resilience when flooded with hits.
 
kelllogo said:
Ray is the equivalent of holding the trigger down to keep firing. It's different enough from Laser that I would resolve it in a different attack, since a charged-up burst is quite distinct from spraying a firehose.

From a numbers standpoint Ray is better than Laser since it gives extra triggers of the Full-Auto and Slayer effects when it triggers. Danmaku alone makes a huge difference. On the other hand, filling everything with shots doesn't always fit the situation. A very tough gate or foe might multiply it's Resilience when flooded with hits.
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How do slayer abilities actually go into the formula? The ability bible implies they're multipliers, but I remember LDJ saying a few days ago that they aren't multipliers.

Are they additive bonuses, or are they something that goes on the separate line where all the multihits are summed up?
 
You know, looking at the Ability shop lists, after we get Flare Arrow and Mark it might be a good idea to start saving for some of the Slayer Abilities. A 500% damage boost sounds very useful for the future, especially when combined with Abilities like Double Tap and Double Hit. While I don't think we've seen how Slayer Abilities and Abilities like Rain of Blows and Full Auto interact, it could wind up being very powerful.
 
ReaperofInterest said:
You know, looking at the Ability shop lists, after we get Flare Arrow and Mark it might be a good idea to start saving for some of the Slayer Abilities. A 500% damage boost sounds very useful for the future, especially when combined with Abilities like Double Tap and Double Hit. While I don't think we've seen how Slayer Abilities and Abilities like Rain of Blows and Full Auto interact, it could wind up being very powerful.
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Wasn't Slayer supposed to be able to outright bypass most Affinity-based OP tricks?
Like our Aegis Field would not lower incoming damage if it's combined with Shieldslayer? Or something like that? Because I distinctly remember that Crystalwatcher once said that Timeslayer would negate Armor of the Time Lord, Goddess White's OP defense ability.

If so, I think that we really need to pick up Horrorslayer at the very least, because it ought to give us a more generally applicable way to punch through False Existence of Greater Nightmares and, coincidentally, seriously improve our effectiveness against Goddess Red's surprise visits.

kelllogo said:
Ray is the equivalent of holding the trigger down to keep firing. It's different enough from Laser that I would resolve it in a different attack, since a charged-up burst is quite distinct from spraying a firehose.

From a numbers standpoint Ray is better than Laser since it gives extra triggers of the Full-Auto and Slayer effects when it triggers. Danmaku alone makes a huge difference. On the other hand, filling everything with shots doesn't always fit the situation. A very tough gate or foe might multiply it's Resilience when flooded with hits.
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Well, Judgement Core's Maw of Destruction works pretty similar at least from "how it looks like when we write up the damage stacks" standpoint. And, well... That's what Wave Force spell is for, for bypassing that tough opponent's Resilience.

On the other hand... I don't think there are very many abilities that can improve the damage if it's focused on Magic Modifier. Double Hit/Tap/Spell and the following upgrades are the only ones that can outright multiply the damage... Modifier Save also helps, but it's still limited. And there are Judgement/Smite, the "ignore/reverse magic modifier" abilities.
 
RE: Ray vs Laser: Ray is better for groups because you can string it to multiple targets, whereas Laser is for one target only. Conversely, Laser is better for hard targets because it gets situational bonuses against defenses that Ray just doesn't, like spontaneously gaining a False AP ability, or outright ignoring lower-leveled defensive barriers or skill negation.

Also the aforementioned soft mechanics stuff with Ray not doing full damage unless you keep hitting your target for the entire duration.
 
justinkal said:
How do slayer abilities actually go into the formula? The ability bible implies they're multipliers, but I remember LDJ saying a few days ago that they aren't multipliers.

Are they additive bonuses, or are they something that goes on the separate line where all the multihits are summed up?
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When a slayer ability activates it gives a modifier that adds 500% of the attacker's Base Damage (or MM roll in rare cases). This carries across Ray activations. It also does terrible things to the target and is one of those Abilities that can't be used in friendly spars (like Unstoppable or most of the DOT effects).

Ex.

(Extinguish: 1000 Base Damage, +111 Dice, +5000 Lightslayer = 6111 Damage

Armor of Light Negated by Lightslayer!

War Angel Cyrus: 500 Resilience, +34 Dice, +1701 Judgement = 2235 Damage Reduction

3876 End Damage

War Angel Cyrus: 3000 - 3876 = -876 Health

Well, it's not like he was doing much in this fight with his aura turned off.)

Lightslayer let a spell that is otherwise unimpressive drop a War Angel in one hit, punching through Cyrus' spell immunity to do so.
 
ShadowAngelBeta said:
I'm fairly sure God doesn't exist as an affinity anyway. Does it? It seems like something that shouldn't really.
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I mean the Slayer ability that targets the Divinity affinity.

Conceptual Armor is the highest tier of Morality Barrier, the "I am literally the embodiment of a concept" one.


A lot of Slayer abilities have names that are a bit non-indicative of what they target.
 
justinkal said:
Would Godslayer (anti-Divinity) let an attack bypass Conceptual Armor?

Or do Slayer abilities have no effect against targeting immunity?
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If the Conceptual Armor arises from the targeted Affinity and isn't a Super Ability, yes.

If you're asking about Morality Barriers, no, not by itself.

...

What would I know about Conceptual Armor :V.
 
justinkal said:
Would Godslayer (anti-Divinity) let an attack bypass Conceptual Armor?
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/人 ◕ ‿‿ ◕ 人\ [That would be telling~] /人 ◕ ‿‿ ◕ 人\

ShadowAngelBeta said:
I'm fairly sure God doesn't exist as an affinity anyway. Does it? It seems like something that shouldn't really.
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Slayer abilities do not directly correspond name-wise to the relevant affinity. For example, The Rule slayer ability is Kingslayer.
 
FatedBread said:
Mmm yeah, it's over a year old and doesn't include all the higher tier slayer abilities like Starslayer, Magical Girl Slayer, Prime Evil Slayer, Demonslayer, & Superslayer.

...Or the ones that proc off 2 affinities. Like Sovereignslayer & Devilslayer. Gah.
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Demonslayer, Prime Evil Slayer, and Superslayer are in the ability bible for being non-standard.
 
kelllogo said:
Ray is the equivalent of holding the trigger down to keep firing. It's different enough from Laser that I would resolve it in a different attack, since a charged-up burst is quite distinct from spraying a firehose.

From a numbers standpoint Ray is better than Laser since it gives extra triggers of the Full-Auto and Slayer effects when it triggers. Danmaku alone makes a huge difference. On the other hand, filling everything with shots doesn't always fit the situation. A very tough gate or foe might multiply it's Resilience when flooded with hits.
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so how would ray interact with an aoe? since each target in the area would suddenly be getting hit with a lot more shots since it would be the ones that went off near it rather than just on it.



on an unrelated note, I went looking through the lists of MGs, we should look up Nightmare Monarch. she might let us eat one of her summons , and we'd pair well with someone who has a walking army to bog things down with.
 
random_npc said:
so how would ray interact with an aoe? since each target in the area would suddenly be getting hit with a lot more shots since it would be the ones that went off near it rather than just on it.



on an unrelated note, I went looking through the lists of MGs, we should look up Nightmare Monarch. she might let us eat one of her summons , and we'd pair well with someone who has a walking army to bog things down with.
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The obvious way is that a (Ray | Collateral Damage) combination (which is Ray AOE) would work is by emulating either a "create and maintain a fireball over a large area" or "launch a house-sized beam of fuck everything in that general direction". In more significant situations, it's going to be a sort of (Omnipresent) effect of a limited variety.

The obvious result will probably be partial negation of size modfiiers and dodge options. The other would probably be some kind of damage multiplier "engulfs the enemy" and resilience debuff "hits everywhere", the former implying the sheer scale of damage (i.e. never a glancing hit) and the latter implying hitting the weak points as well as everything else.
 
LostDeviljho said:
Nope, that'd be in Laser's bag of tricks.
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Are you sure? We're talking about Ray+AOE, and both scenarios I have used to describe the effect as I visualize it would support partial negation of size modifiers. Would you please give your reasoning based on soft mechanics why it would not be possible?

On a similar note, Laser's bag of tricks IMO will probably provide imitated Armor Pierce and Juggernaut, Punch-Through or Overwhelm for intercept conflicts, and/or Sunder. Basically, showing us increased penetration rather than size negation (that isn't necessarily supported).

Well, it can provide us with AOE on the side, but negation of size modifiers isn't necessarily an aspect.

Suppose I have an MG in the works (Darkness/Magic affinities) who has two weapons - magical foci gloves with a Spell Boost (and 50% damage reduction when used in melee), and her own shadow that can be made solid, form constructs of shadow, and shapeshift... Yes, the common gag is that cartoon image of shadow that smiles, showing horisontal crescent of light.

She also relies heavily on Magic Modifier and has an Ability that's keyed off of making MMod rolls.

Anyway, I'm planning to give her shadow the ability to imitate Splinter via Shapeshift, and eventually Auto Assault. But once I do that, she's left with either spells or hitting someone ineffectually with fists for her own actions. So I wanted to give her an ability to make shadow claws on her gloves - and an entirely different set of Abilities on the gloves for this, with doubled base damage besides.

How do I play it?
Do I grant her shadow Splinter-and-Combine and declare that her gloves gain and lose certain traits reliant on activation of Combine?
Or do I grant her an unlockable Mode Shift on her Gloves to cover for it?
 
Faraway-R said:
Are you sure? We're talking about Ray+AOE, and both scenarios I have used to describe the effect as I visualize it would support partial negation of size modifiers. Would you please give your reasoning based on soft mechanics why it would not be possible?
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Imagine you're trying to break through armor, would you rather use one 16 inch shell or an equal amount of weight in 30mm shells?

~2200 shots of the smaller shells can't match what the big one can accomplish in one strike. The single big attack is what you want in that case. The drawback is that it's just one shot, so for hitting a bunch of little guys you'd want to use thousands of shells.
 
Faraway-R said:
Are you sure? We're talking about Ray+AOE, and both scenarios I have used to describe the effect as I visualize it would support partial negation of size modifiers. Would you please give your reasoning based on soft mechanics why it would not be possible?
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Size Modifiers are a representation of "I mass too much for you to meaningfully hurt me". AoE is the opposite of what you need to get through that. More to the point, Ray doesn't get bonuses against defenses like Laser does, and Size Modifiers are most definitely defenses.
kelllogo said:
Imagine you're trying to break through armor, would you rather use one 16 inch shell or an equal amount of weight in 30mm shells?

~2200 shots of the smaller shells can't match what the big one can accomplish in one strike. The single big attack is what you want in that case. The drawback is that it's just one shot, so for hitting a bunch of little guys you'd want to use thousands of shells.
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So yeah basically this^

Faraway-R said:
How do I play it?
Do I grant her shadow Splinter-and-Combine and declare that her gloves gain and lose certain traits reliant on activation of Combine?
Or do I grant her an unlockable Mode Shift on her Gloves to cover for it?
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I assume the former would be a personal ability?
 
Faraway-R said:
Anyway, I'm planning to give her shadow the ability to imitate Splinter via Shapeshift, and eventually Auto Assault. But once I do that, she's left with either spells or hitting someone ineffectually with fists for her own actions. So I wanted to give her an ability to make shadow claws on her gloves - and an entirely different set of Abilities on the gloves for this, with doubled base damage besides.

How do I play it?
Do I grant her shadow Splinter-and-Combine and declare that her gloves gain and lose certain traits reliant on activation of Combine?
Or do I grant her an unlockable Mode Shift on her Gloves to cover for it?
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My advice would be to give the Shadow Auto Assault and Shapeshift from the beginning. I can understand why a spell might get Auto Assault later on, but for a weapon, I think it would be less of a hassle to give it Auto Assault from the start so you don't have to figure out how adding it to a developed weapon affects the weapon in question.

So for the gloves, your second suggestion of giving them an unlockable Mode Shift sounds better. Spell Boost could be limited to "normal" mode, and some melee Abilities like Double Hit or Rain of Blows could be limited to "claw" mode.
 
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