this highlights a MAJOR change to events...Sarutobi isn't stuck behind a Desk deteriating...he has time to get out and actually train and be healthy...one of the ONLY reasons the invasion was able to kill him was that he was very out of shape. Hell he could be out taking missions and actually IMPROVING
Tome of the Orange Sky (Naruto/MGLN)
- Thread starter CmptrWz
- Start date
- Crossover
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- Tags
- mgln naruto naruto uzumaki complete
sainen
Elder Lich
it could also be that the Academy style just didn't click with him like the Strong Fist did.
a confluence of events to make Lee supremely dangerous
Oh, I LIKE this one. And I'd say poor Danzo, but that guy deservies every moment of his suffering. But I did like how he mentally went 'I bow to the master.' to the third in the first chapter. Also, I now realize that I am not all caught up on your other current work and never finished you finished work, so, I'm going to go and fix that soon.
- Location
- Europe
The HP one needs a google search.
Now Danzo is knows, but what abot that other spymaster, Naruto his godfather?
Lol, I can still see lots of fun, right there.
And as pitty revenge, I can see Danzo increasing the paperwork of ALL Konoha enemies.
Then Naruto his godfather catches on and helps it along, since it makes spying, that much easier.
You mean, he has time to spend with his grandson.
Thus preventing that connection to be made.
Hanabi will be sooo annoyed, then prank all hell out of that grandson, in return.
sainen
Elder Lich
CmptrWz's "For Want of an Outfit" got scrubbed from SV because the mods decided that parts of the story that where heavily baked in(there where 100+ chapters at the time) where problematic and against site rules, it's now on AO3 instead
- Location
- Europe
For Want Of A Outfit.
He came a bit too close to certain things, that caused a story lock and hearing from you now, potentially a story removal.
Edit:
Typical, a ninja came by.
Of course leading any organization bigger than a dozen or so people requires some level of paper work
Doing science requires data recording
As mentioned he founded a hidden village as it's 'kage'
Epsilon Rose
The King of Unrest
Bleh. I wrote a post about things I noticed in this chapter, but it's basically a giant list of things I was complaining about, which is not a great post to write.
I think what I'm struggling with is that the premise behind this story is really intriguing and the first few chapters were a lot of fun, but the last few chapters have felt ... off.
It's mostly an issue of Naruto's scaling and the way he fits into the world. There are instances where he gets these weirdly easy wins or does things that are supposed to be impressive and cool, but they just left me wondering why no one else had done them first when they're evidently so easy and obvious. I think the first time this happened was the fox clan's use of a stone contract providing a ton of upsides and no downsides via relatively obvious mechanism and the only thing I could think of was "Why is literally no other summoning clan doing this?" The same thing happened with the anti-summoning seals he gave to Konoha "Summoning is a fairly obvious vector of attack and the village already has a bunch of defenses. If these seals are so easy to implement, why has literally no one else, in any village, set them up?"
The real problem I have with these events is that they make Naruto's feats and accomplishments feel less impressive, because everyone else is shown to be incapable without Naruto's prompting and there's no real sense of scale. The best comparison I can think of is going from Saints Row 2 to Saints Row 3. SR2 had a lot of comedy and zany antics, but it also had more serious moments that provided grounding and context for the comedy. SR3, on the other hand, went all in on the comedy while also turning everything up to 11. However, without the grounding of the serious bits, the comedic highs didn't stand out as much and felt unearned. Paradoxically, by removing the non-comedy elements, the game became less comedic.
More simply, as Anko would put it, "There's no thrill in beating people that weren't even a potential threat in the first place."
To be clear, I'm not complaining about Naruto getting a boatload of shiny abilities and generally being overpowered. —That's pretty much the premise of the story.— It's more a matter of how people around him are portrayed, and the extreme downgrade most of the cast seems to have received, just so Naruto can stand out more, even when dealing with abilities others should understand well, where the special part should be that he has them at such a young age, not that no one else knows what they're doing.
I've spoiled the things I noticed in this chapter, if you're interested in them, but it's mostly just examples of what I was just talking about with a few inconsistencies mixed in.
This feels really game-y and out of place. I can't help but feel it would be far more natural, and make far more sense, if he just picked up the skill early because foxes are naturally good shape shifters and Naruto is constantly using fox-based shapeshifting around him. Similarly, if you want him to develop a skill in illusions, just make it something he's naturally good at.
Also, this made me realize that the handling of the fox clan has been kind-of inconsistent. When we first meet them we're told that they've never had a summoner before:
But then there's the thing with the summoning seals:
The fact that they had a sage and that said sage made a bunch of summoning seals kind-of implies that they had summoners before. This whole "copy the most used ability" thing also kind-of implies that, because while it could be referring to staying with other foxes, it's not a very fox-like talent and feels like something associated with a summoning contract or something else that's similarly artificial.
This seems kind-of excessive? I get this is meant to be a power trip fantasy, but saying he needs skills comparable to the highest rank of shinobi, just to do the basic jutsu, trivializes and flattens the rest of the setting in a way that actually detracts from his power. It just throws all sense of scale out the window and isn't necessary when having control comparable to a full genin, or even a chunin, would be impressive enough.
Why is Kurenai a special jounin? In canon she was a normal jounin and "special" isn't a rank most jounin go through?
What's so shocking about him having a moderately long-range elemental-ish jutsu of moderate power?
I feel like a jounin should recognize one of the Hokage's signature techniques, especially when it's not exactly a subtle one.
I think what I'm struggling with is that the premise behind this story is really intriguing and the first few chapters were a lot of fun, but the last few chapters have felt ... off.
It's mostly an issue of Naruto's scaling and the way he fits into the world. There are instances where he gets these weirdly easy wins or does things that are supposed to be impressive and cool, but they just left me wondering why no one else had done them first when they're evidently so easy and obvious. I think the first time this happened was the fox clan's use of a stone contract providing a ton of upsides and no downsides via relatively obvious mechanism and the only thing I could think of was "Why is literally no other summoning clan doing this?" The same thing happened with the anti-summoning seals he gave to Konoha "Summoning is a fairly obvious vector of attack and the village already has a bunch of defenses. If these seals are so easy to implement, why has literally no one else, in any village, set them up?"
The real problem I have with these events is that they make Naruto's feats and accomplishments feel less impressive, because everyone else is shown to be incapable without Naruto's prompting and there's no real sense of scale. The best comparison I can think of is going from Saints Row 2 to Saints Row 3. SR2 had a lot of comedy and zany antics, but it also had more serious moments that provided grounding and context for the comedy. SR3, on the other hand, went all in on the comedy while also turning everything up to 11. However, without the grounding of the serious bits, the comedic highs didn't stand out as much and felt unearned. Paradoxically, by removing the non-comedy elements, the game became less comedic.
More simply, as Anko would put it, "There's no thrill in beating people that weren't even a potential threat in the first place."
To be clear, I'm not complaining about Naruto getting a boatload of shiny abilities and generally being overpowered. —That's pretty much the premise of the story.— It's more a matter of how people around him are portrayed, and the extreme downgrade most of the cast seems to have received, just so Naruto can stand out more, even when dealing with abilities others should understand well, where the special part should be that he has them at such a young age, not that no one else knows what they're doing.
I've spoiled the things I noticed in this chapter, if you're interested in them, but it's mostly just examples of what I was just talking about with a few inconsistencies mixed in.
This feels really game-y and out of place. I can't help but feel it would be far more natural, and make far more sense, if he just picked up the skill early because foxes are naturally good shape shifters and Naruto is constantly using fox-based shapeshifting around him. Similarly, if you want him to develop a skill in illusions, just make it something he's naturally good at.
Also, this made me realize that the handling of the fox clan has been kind-of inconsistent. When we first meet them we're told that they've never had a summoner before:
But then there's the thing with the summoning seals:
The fact that they had a sage and that said sage made a bunch of summoning seals kind-of implies that they had summoners before. This whole "copy the most used ability" thing also kind-of implies that, because while it could be referring to staying with other foxes, it's not a very fox-like talent and feels like something associated with a summoning contract or something else that's similarly artificial.
This seems kind-of excessive? I get this is meant to be a power trip fantasy, but saying he needs skills comparable to the highest rank of shinobi, just to do the basic jutsu, trivializes and flattens the rest of the setting in a way that actually detracts from his power. It just throws all sense of scale out the window and isn't necessary when having control comparable to a full genin, or even a chunin, would be impressive enough.
Why is Kurenai a special jounin? In canon she was a normal jounin and "special" isn't a rank most jounin go through?
What's so shocking about him having a moderately long-range elemental-ish jutsu of moderate power?
I feel like a jounin should recognize one of the Hokage's signature techniques, especially when it's not exactly a subtle one.
The anti summoning seals were created by Naruto and the Tome (and probably his parents/Kurama) and the reason others haven't developed them is partly because they don't have the knowledge or scanning abilities and partly because city wreaking summons are rare as fuck and chakra intensive.
Also the person to person private contracts were also very rare.
As for the stone summoning contract the fox's use, it is likely that other clans do or did use it but most would have swapped to the easier to transport and, likely, store scrolls, either that or they or the humans had paper equivalents before the encountered each other.
Also the person to person private contracts were also very rare.
As for the stone summoning contract the fox's use, it is likely that other clans do or did use it but most would have swapped to the easier to transport and, likely, store scrolls, either that or they or the humans had paper equivalents before the encountered each other.
sainen
Elder Lich
A sage does not need to be a summoner or even a human at all, they just need to have mastered Senjutsu(the incorporation of Nature Chakra into the Mental and physical energies that make up Chakra, without turning to stone)
for example the Toads have Gamamaru , while the Snakes have the White Snake Sage(who can inject Nature chakra via bite), and you need someone that knows what their doing to teach Senjutsu in the first place after all.
Kurenai only gets promoted to jounin just before the Rookie 9 graduate a year from now.
it's the fact that they're fresh academy graduates, and they skipped a year makes any effective jutsu surprising(besides the basic bunshin, replacement, and henge). Kakashi was similarly impressed/surprised with Sasuke using Great Fireball during the Bell test.
- Location
- Michigan
Also the Chakra requirement is apparently absurd and other summon clans don't care as much about that aspect in their summoners.
MWKillKenny84
Lurking from the Trauma Switch.
- Location
- Vado Ligure
Is this a nod to Assassin's Creed?
- Location
- Deep in the Badlands of Equestria
Considering how he initially struggled in canon with taijutsu and the lack of Tsunade level medics in the village at the time, I find it quite possible that Lee did enough nerve damage to his hands in early practice by himself that he has issues forming the needed hand seals for ninjutsu attacks. Yes, it's a training crutch that experienced shinobi can bypass with sufficient training, but for a kid just starting out on any external chakra expression of effects, not having that bit of support to let them build experience with feeling how their chakra has to flow to activate a given effect would be a massive hindrance to learning at all.
After all, it's not as if shinobi have an easy method to induce correct chakra flow through a student's body so they can experience how it works. (Or, at least nothing available widely to the entire corps for general use. I suspect that Naruto and the Tome might be able to remedy that if anyone were to think to ask.)
Last edited:
- Pronouns
- he/him/his
So Kurama hasn't spoken up or even been mentioned since Chapter 3, except in a Chapter 4 conversation between Hiruzen and Jiraiya. I get that Kurama likely doesn't have much to contribute at this stage, especially compared to Kushina and Minato, but the absence is conspicuous.
How's Naruto's negative emotion sensing coming along?
How's Naruto's negative emotion sensing coming along?
Ah, good. Nice of his parents to teach Naruto the secret Uzumaki weeding jutsu before he has to take D-Ranks!
The Underground Movement jutsu allows you to take items, such as clothes and weapons, with you. Some variants also seem to let you move other people too.
As such, you simply grasp the weed firmly, activate the jutsu, and pull it effortlessly out of the soil, complete with all its roots. Removing all the roots means you don't get called back in 2 weeks after the weeds have regrown to "do it properly this time!"
You can probably also use it to sift through and remove rocks/stones from the soil too?
As such, you simply grasp the weed firmly, activate the jutsu, and pull it effortlessly out of the soil, complete with all its roots. Removing all the roots means you don't get called back in 2 weeks after the weeds have regrown to "do it properly this time!"
You can probably also use it to sift through and remove rocks/stones from the soil too?
Plus, remember, canon Naruto doesn't initially have enough chakra to summon Gamabunta without tapping into Kurama's supply. And then you have Gamaken and Gamahiro — who take just as much chakra — and the likes of Fukasaku, Shima, and Gamamaru — who take even more.
"Enough chakra to summon half the clan at once" would pretty much limit the Toads to… Kaguya Otsutsuki, and that's it.
Jaesten
The Eye in the Abyss
- Location
- Canada
As someone stated above, Kurenai was only promoted to Jounin just shy of the start of canon. She may have been a Chuunin beforehand or a special Jounin but I can't recall.
Special Jounin is an actual middle step rank for ninja that are specialized in a specific field. In this case for Kurenai it's her Genjutsu but her other skills aren't up to snuff in Tai or Nin or whatever else have you to make her a full and proper Jounin.
As for Anko she doesn't get the promotion because of politics really. She has the skills by time the Exams roll around really but she was still Oro's apprentice and that generates a lot of flak.
That and they'd probably pull her out from under Ibiki and Inochi and think she's comfortable there. In canon at least.
As for the actual story post, Hinata swearing like that caused a literal pause of incomprehension. I thought it was just Naruto for several long seconds.
Special Jounin is an actual middle step rank for ninja that are specialized in a specific field. In this case for Kurenai it's her Genjutsu but her other skills aren't up to snuff in Tai or Nin or whatever else have you to make her a full and proper Jounin.
As for Anko she doesn't get the promotion because of politics really. She has the skills by time the Exams roll around really but she was still Oro's apprentice and that generates a lot of flak.
That and they'd probably pull her out from under Ibiki and Inochi and think she's comfortable there. In canon at least.
As for the actual story post, Hinata swearing like that caused a literal pause of incomprehension. I thought it was just Naruto for several long seconds.
- Location
- france
Woah... Full stop here. Hinata? Swearing like that? Use something softer.
One hell of a team. So much potential. I'm seeing deadly combos by the buckets.
Naruto: "Our kunai will blot out the sun!"
Orochimaru: "But I don't want to fight in the shade."
Why am I thinking of Tenten with a Gatling-type device in the future?
- Location
- Neptune
And if you pick up the buckets you find more underneath.
Thank you, fixed.
The stone contract provides benefits and has downsides.
Some downsides include:
You can't make a stone contract that your average shinobi can sign at all, drastically reducing your pool of potential summoners. Most people trying to sign are going to pass out from exhaustion or die before they finish.
You can only have a handful of summoners use it before you need to make a new one from scratch, compared to just baking in a couple dozen signing spots on a scroll.
They take a lot longer to make as well.
And a downside that isn't actually exclusive to the stone contract, as the Fox-made paper contracts have it too:
To summon without blood, you need far better chakra control.
The anti-summoning seals are easy to implement, but hard to figure out. The Tome only figured them out because Minato mastered the Hiraishin, and he only wanted to get them put into place because Kurama had been summoned into the village twice by that point.
Konoha is probably the only hidden village that is "regularly" attacked by giant summons, in that it actually happened multiple times.
...why does making a bunch of summoning scrolls imply that they had summoners before? A temporary contract scroll was used to get Naruto to to the foxes in the first place. As for the copy most used ability implying it, you quoted where they say that they've worked with humans in various ways before too. Is it that hard to realize that said working with humans likely involved a kit spending enough time near one for the ability to kick in?
...this is more of a nod to canon and to show that he's been training his ass off. I don't think he ever gets the chakra control needed to perform the academy clone with the massive amount of chakra Kurama gives him in canon.
Because she didn't become jounin until shortly before the normal graduation and chunin don't lead Konoha genin teams, so I had her promoted based on her genjutsu skills.
It's an unheard of jutsu (he didn't throw a kunai, he just pointed his hand and one flew out of it) and who expects genin to be pulling out exploding kunai from literally nowhere?
How often has anyone seen Hiruzen fighting in the past twelve years?
They've determined that he can't get the same detail Kurama used to be able to and everything else is personal experience now.
Yes but also not really?
It is that sure, but from an outside perspective it looks like a variant of the elemental bullet techniques. Impressive to do it without hand seals and obviously it would take more control than the usual variety to make it kunai shaped instead of just a ball of the element, but still an elemental bullet jutsu.
This is kinda the case for all of this author's stories. There's various excuses for why the main character is amazing to a level nobody can really match. If that's not something you're interested in reading oh well.
- Location
- A small blue dot
I'm about to go on a bit of a rant here, and I don't want you to get the idea that I hate this story, it's fun to read, but there are some things that could hurt my long-term enjoyment.
I agree with the previous comments that things are too easy for Naruto, and it's not his power level that's the problem, between the Union Device and proper use of Shadow Clones he has an advantage that is both absurd and completely justifiable. The problem is that everyone else seems to default to seeing him in a positive light, he never makes significant mistakes, and he's never wrong when it's even slightly important. Sometimes there are very good reasons for seemingly 'stupid' decisions, particularly when the ones making them have access to information you don't, and the lack of "that's a clever idea, but we do things the way we do for XXXX reason" makes it feel like Naruto is the only character allowed to be smart. If there's something you feel is unjustified in the setting it doesn't have to be the main character that points it out. Heck, it doesn't even have to be pointed out in the present. There's nothing wrong with a little AU, where someone a hundred years ago realized that what they were doing was stupid and decided to change.
Essentially, there's nothing for him to struggle against, which makes for a protagonist that feels like they've had everything handed to them. Even if it's little mistakes, like saying something stupid to Hinata, and worrying about ruining their friendship as he tries to apologize, it humanizes him and makes him more relatable.
An example is when he used an untested seal on Hinata. There was none of the carefully suppressed fury that I would have expected from her father (Only held back at all due to the fact that he wants Naruto and Hinata together for political reasons). Instead, it was a calm 'ok, great what does it do?'. Things like that are normally dangerous and, even after the seal worked and was shown to be beneficial, should have resulted in a stern lecture on testing these things properly.
In the end, it's not an overabundance of strengths that results in a Mary Sue, it's a lack of meaningful weaknesses. I'm not ready to slap a 'Mary Sue' tag on this story just yet (mostly due to the arguments it'd cause) but it's worryingly close.
Hopefully, the criticism is helpful and doesn't come across as too harsh. I'll keep reading for a while regardless, since, for now, I'm still enjoying it.
TL;DR - It's not a problem that Naruto is overpowered, the problem is that he doesn't make mistakes.
I agree with the previous comments that things are too easy for Naruto, and it's not his power level that's the problem, between the Union Device and proper use of Shadow Clones he has an advantage that is both absurd and completely justifiable. The problem is that everyone else seems to default to seeing him in a positive light, he never makes significant mistakes, and he's never wrong when it's even slightly important. Sometimes there are very good reasons for seemingly 'stupid' decisions, particularly when the ones making them have access to information you don't, and the lack of "that's a clever idea, but we do things the way we do for XXXX reason" makes it feel like Naruto is the only character allowed to be smart. If there's something you feel is unjustified in the setting it doesn't have to be the main character that points it out. Heck, it doesn't even have to be pointed out in the present. There's nothing wrong with a little AU, where someone a hundred years ago realized that what they were doing was stupid and decided to change.
Essentially, there's nothing for him to struggle against, which makes for a protagonist that feels like they've had everything handed to them. Even if it's little mistakes, like saying something stupid to Hinata, and worrying about ruining their friendship as he tries to apologize, it humanizes him and makes him more relatable.
An example is when he used an untested seal on Hinata. There was none of the carefully suppressed fury that I would have expected from her father (Only held back at all due to the fact that he wants Naruto and Hinata together for political reasons). Instead, it was a calm 'ok, great what does it do?'. Things like that are normally dangerous and, even after the seal worked and was shown to be beneficial, should have resulted in a stern lecture on testing these things properly.
In the end, it's not an overabundance of strengths that results in a Mary Sue, it's a lack of meaningful weaknesses. I'm not ready to slap a 'Mary Sue' tag on this story just yet (mostly due to the arguments it'd cause) but it's worryingly close.
Hopefully, the criticism is helpful and doesn't come across as too harsh. I'll keep reading for a while regardless, since, for now, I'm still enjoying it.
TL;DR - It's not a problem that Naruto is overpowered, the problem is that he doesn't make mistakes.
FaerieKnight79
Verified Pixie
- Location
- The Internet
I think what people miss is that in canon Naruto only has one singular teacher who bothered to actually teach him in the academy. And that teacher was Iruka. His education was actively sabotaged by the teachers due to him having the fox sealed inside. Canonically Naruto was excluded from lessons on things like chakra control exercises, deliberately mistaught hand to hand, and so forth. And while Iruka did try to teach Naruto properly, his assistant was actively sabotaging the kid. A fact that Iruka had no idea about. It's a miracle that Naruto is as skilled as he is in canon prior to his training trip. Even Kakashi failed to actually teach Naruto anything more then tree climbing. Although to be fair, Kakashi was probably hamstrung by the city council having more power over shinobi then they should have thanks to Danzo's schemes and the 3rd Hokage's being too busy to notice the erosion of his authority.
That training trip, to my knowledge, was used primarily to fix Naruto's basic training and took several years.
In this story Naruto has been getting actual training both from his parents, the academy and from various adults outside of the academy. Does Naruto seem more powerful then he was in canon? You bet he is. But that's in large part due to him actually getting the training he needs. But to be honest, he's not been shown to be that much more powerful then in canon, just more skilled at applying said power.
That training trip, to my knowledge, was used primarily to fix Naruto's basic training and took several years.
In this story Naruto has been getting actual training both from his parents, the academy and from various adults outside of the academy. Does Naruto seem more powerful then he was in canon? You bet he is. But that's in large part due to him actually getting the training he needs. But to be honest, he's not been shown to be that much more powerful then in canon, just more skilled at applying said power.
The17thImmortal
Seeker of Sanity
Just because he has no talent at something, doesn't mean he can't git gud at it anyway, just by working his ass off at it.Wait, what? He's fast enough to outpace Sasuke's Sharingan, and went hand-to-hand with Kimimaro(who has an extremely powerful and dangerous bloodline ability) while still recovering from surgery to fix the allegedly permanent damage he'd sustained fighting Gaara at the Chunin Exams, he can be described as a taijutsu monster... and he's naturally terrible at it!?
Lee is the Kenichi Shirahama of the Naruto world.