Through the Looking Glass (Spider-Gwen/Spider-Man Noir Crossover)

Yeah, it was a good chapter, but the actions scenes did feel a bit rushed, but the interaction between Spidey and Kat and the aftermath of the fight were brilliant IMO.

1 - The Date! For I am a filth shipper.

2 -What Varano said.

But I would like seeing Kat becoming a bit clingy, after this event, subconsciously, but she or Petey notices and tries to maintain the status quo just to avoid getting attached and avoid another Logan incident.
 
1. Spider-Man and Shadowcat recovering from the assault and trying to stop Laura from going apeshit and killing everyone that looks at her funny.

2. The deliberate shallowness in their portrayal.


Thanks.

I hadn't even bothered with viewing his take on Mary-Sues having watched enough of his terrible writing advice before that, that I could say I disagree with him on about everything from what he believes is bad writing advice to his taste on what series and franchises are good and for what reasons.

I dunno, I kinda agree with him on a lot of the anti-hero points. Doesn't help that Noir really does fall under the cliche - most notably the one where it's not really explained why everyone just tolerates his abrasive behavior, particularly the Parkers and Gwen. Though the opposite could also be said in that Peter's remarkably forgiving to the way Gwen treats him at times.

Yeah, it was a good chapter, but the actions scenes did feel a bit rushed, but the interaction between Spidey and Kat and the aftermath of the fight were brilliant IMO.

1 - The Date! For I am a filth shipper.

2 -What Varano said.

But I would like seeing Kat becoming a bit clingy, after this event, subconsciously, but she or Petey notices and tries to maintain the status quo just to avoid getting attached and avoid another Logan incident.

Why would she become clingy, though? Because Spider-Man hugged her? I'm not sure if they did anything that would qualify for their relationship to change.
 
Why would she become clingy, though? Because Spider-Man hugged her? I'm not sure if they did anything that would qualify for their relationship to change.
Not the act itself, but the occasion where it happened, he was there for when she was at her most unstable period and offered support/kindness, seeing how all of her relationships are devoid of any kind of things like these, I thought this could be special for her, confusing her feelings on the matter, but she would hold back on this as Peter situation resembles Logan, as she begins to open to him, but one day he disappears, leaving her alone once more.

I know it is sappy, but I like the comparison between situations and of course it is not like she will fall in love with Spider-Man because of the hug, just that she will begin to be even more protective with him, and act differently with him(how I don't know, your choice).

I dunno their relationship going back to status quo after this would be very strange, sure you can do it, but it would kinda make this experience empty, I think.
 
Not the act itself, but the occasion where it happened, he was there for when she was at her most unstable period and offered support/kindness, seeing how all of her relationships are devoid of any kind of things like these, I thought this could be special for her, confusing her feelings on the matter, but she would hold back on this as Peter situation resembles Logan, as she begins to open to him, but one day he disappears, leaving her alone once more.

I know it is sappy, but I like the comparison between situations and of course it is not like she will fall in love with Spider-Man because of the hug, just that she will begin to be even more protective with him, and act differently with him(how I don't know, your choice).

I dunno their relationship going back to status quo after this would be very strange, sure you can do it, but it would kinda make this experience empty, I think.

The main difference is that they entered into this partnership knowing that it was temporary. With Logan it was different since Shadowcat's dialogue rather heavily implies that she honestly thought they could make a go for the single dad/young daughter thing that's popularized by media like The Last of Us and Bioshock: Infinite. Here Shadowcat and Spider-Man know from day one that this setup is temporary, and even when she states he can stay in Earth-65 if things don't pan out in Earth-90214 she gives no indication that it's an invitation to continue their partnership; just that he has other options.

That and do readers honestly want these two to have this kind of relationship? I don't wholly agree with the Noir/Gwen relationship, but at least I get why - main characters, Peter Parker and Gwen Stacy canon relations, both of them being spiders, opposites attract etc etc. Here these two are just kinda lax and uncaring about really delving into each other's ticks, mostly on the basis that, hey, they only have to put up with each other for a couple of months so they can just suck it up and deal. This also kills romance dead since who'd enter a relationship that lasts maybe 2 months maximum?

Laura undoubtedly complicates things, though, I won't deny that; especially given that Spider-Man leaving will likely affect her as well due to how young and unstable Laura's mind is. Given the way Shadowcat was raised it's also very likely that Spider-Man will have to be the main stabilizing influence between the two, which means his sudden absence is gonna be the start of honey badger season between the Wolverettes. This is sadly unavoidable since there's no way Spider-Man's staying in Earth-65 or Shadowcat's moving to Earth-90214.

That and you mentioned Shadowcat acting differently, but how do you perceive that? I feel like her acting jealous and clingy would be massively out of character, and I can't even use 616 Laura's romances since they're...well, terrible, for the most part:




I mean I can like the scene for being well-drawn and conveying intent without dialogue, but the fact that Laura acts this way is just hilarious. She's not the kind of person to growl at someone because of a guy nor would she rip off nipple piercings with a smile and/or try to stab someone during a rave brawl. I guess it'd fit 65-Shadowcat's character a bit more given what we know of her, but I can't help but think that given what they've seen of each other neither her or Spider-Man have much reason to think the other is romantic prospect material.
 
The main difference is that they entered into this partnership knowing that it was temporary. With Logan it was different since Shadowcat's dialogue rather heavily implies that she honestly thought they could make a go for the single dad/young daughter thing that's popularized by media like The Last of Us and Bioshock: Infinite. Here Shadowcat and Spider-Man know from day one that this setup is temporary, and even when she states he can stay in Earth-65 if things don't pan out in Earth-90214 she gives no indication that it's an invitation to continue their partnership; just that he has other options.

That and do readers honestly want these two to have this kind of relationship? I don't wholly agree with the Noir/Gwen relationship, but at least I get why - main characters, Peter Parker and Gwen Stacy canon relations, both of them being spiders, opposites attract etc etc. Here these two are just kinda lax and uncaring about really delving into each other's ticks, mostly on the basis that, hey, they only have to put up with each other for a couple of months so they can just suck it up and deal. This also kills romance dead since who'd enter a relationship that lasts maybe 2 months maximum?

Laura undoubtedly complicates things, though, I won't deny that; especially given that Spider-Man leaving will likely affect her as well due to how young and unstable Laura's mind is. Given the way Shadowcat was raised it's also very likely that Spider-Man will have to be the main stabilizing influence between the two, which means his sudden absence is gonna be the start of honey badger season between the Wolverettes. This is sadly unavoidable since there's no way Spider-Man's staying in Earth-65 or Shadowcat's moving to Earth-90214.

That and you mentioned Shadowcat acting differently, but how do you perceive that? I feel like her acting jealous and clingy would be massively out of character, and I can't even use 616 Laura's romances since they're...well, terrible, for the most part:




I mean I can like the scene for being well-drawn and conveying intent without dialogue, but the fact that Laura acts this way is just hilarious. She's not the kind of person to growl at someone because of a guy nor would she rip off nipple piercings with a smile and/or try to stab someone during a rave brawl. I guess it'd fit 65-Shadowcat's character a bit more given what we know of her, but I can't help but think that given what they've seen of each other neither her or Spider-Man have much reason to think the other is romantic prospect material.

This is why in my post, I am saying to not focus on the romantic side of things, because like you said, that is a dead-end, but more on how she begins acting in a different way with Spidey showing an Inner conflict with herself about how this situation is a fuckup as she is growing fond of Spidey, but knows it is pointless as he is going to leave her in the end

Basically, the beginning of a drama, to add something more to the plot of Spidey and Kat, but you seem to have something planned for Laura, and the reason why I am saying this, is to give purpose to what happened in this event and does not fall flat as an empty adventure, but there is the Laura plot and this is enough for me.

So no worries, your post already satisfied my worries :)
 
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This is why in my post, I am saying to not focus on the romantic side of things, because like you said, that is a dead-end, but more on how she begins acting in a different way with Spidey showing an Inner conflict with herself about how this situation is a fuckup as she is growing fond of Spidey, but knows it is pointless as he is going to leave her in the end

Basically, the beginning of a drama, to add something more to the plot of Spidey and Kat, but you seem to have something planned for Laura, and the reason why I am saying this, is to give purpose to what happened in this event and does not fall flat as an empty adventure, but there is the Laura plot and this is enough for me.

So no worries, your post already satisfied my worries :)

Yeah, but again: how does she act different? Romance aside I need certain actions. Does she doodle his name on her notebook or something? Does she suggest that he give serious thought to staying in Earth-65?
 
Yeah, but again: how does she act different? Romance aside I need certain actions. Does she doodle his name on her notebook or something? Does she suggest that he give serious thought to staying in Earth-65?
The point is that she is opening more to him, so she will want to hang around him more, not in the sexual sense, but more on the 'let's do something we both enjoy' like drinking together and talking about funny stuff of the past(or at least trying to), become more invested in helping him go home to payback for being there for her, basically allowing herself to become more friendly with him, and realizing later that what she is doing is very pointless.
 
The point is that she is opening more to him, so she will want to hang around him more, not in the sexual sense, but more on the 'let's do something we both enjoy' like drinking together and talking about funny stuff of the past(or at least trying to), become more invested in helping him go home to payback for being there for her, basically allowing herself to become more friendly with him, and realizing later that what she is doing is very pointless.

Hmm, I'll keep that in mind then :) Still, I don't want this to feel too one-sided - Shadowcat being the only one that's changed while Spider-Man remains static looks kinda weird/sad

Also, is there anything else you want to see? It can be anything from relations between certain characters to certain events in particular.
 
Hmm, I'll keep that in mind then :) Still, I don't want this to feel too one-sided - Shadowcat being the only one that's changed while Spider-Man remains static looks kinda weird/sad

Also, is there anything else you want to see? It can be anything from relations between certain characters to certain events in particular.
All good for now, I am looking forward to seeing your characterization of Laura.
 
Chapter 102 - Spiders, Cats and Wolverines
This is the Spider-Man/Shadowcat/Laura 'bonding' chapter, so you know it's gonna be grim and angsty. Still, it'll probably lead to less projectile vomiting compared to the carnival date, so we'll see where it goes.

Anyway, a friend from my course read the story and she actually pointed out some of the character's quirks. She tagged Gwen as having a pretty bad case of messiah/guilt complex, which is fine since her behavior is pretty indicative of that, but then she notes that Noir either has a deathwish or death seeker tendencies.

She also made a point that it was only 65-Noir that exhibits this and that the original doesn't, stating that his apathy from the constant risks to his life and daring Murdock to pull the trigger during the date chapter indicates that a part of him wants to die despite the bonds he's made with the other characters, most notably Gwen.

I have...mixed views on that, but I'll deal with that in the later AN.

As for Volume 2, I'm definitely nudging towards fixing up the Hobgoblin arc and the things with Donald Roxxon and Lana's dad fit there more. Granted Volume 2 isn't a full set thing, but it's looking better so far. And at least an overarching big bad adds more chance for drama than my original slice of life plan.

On a side note, I found the preview for Spider-Gwen #32 and apparently Gwen's going to out her identity. I have...mixed views on this. While it definitely shakes up the status quo and makes her unique, I have a bad feeling that it'll end with her having to make a deal with Mephisto to revive her comatose dad.


Unless Captain America and SHIELD Deus ex machina a solution this is gonna end badly, especially given the rumors that she's going to start going by Ghost Spider. I'm just really hoping she doesn't jump to 616, since that would kill off the series, at least in my opinion.




















Chapter 102: Spiders, Cats and Wolverines


This was getting out of hand.

Spider-Man leaned forward on the chair and groaned, injured hands covering his bloodstained face. When he'd gotten that tip from Felicia about Octavius being back he thought it'd be quick and clean. No more second chances, no more giving him up to a government that didn't give a single toss about the right of its citizens because of the color of their skin. He'd bury Octavius under that asylum and that'd be the end of it.

Now? Well, now he was keeping watch on a little girl with knives sticking out of her hands that they'd chained to the bed.

Sucking in another deep breath, he set his hands down and looked across towards one of the single beds taking up the breadth of the room. The little girl - X-23, though he sure as hell wasn't going to call her that - looked up at the ceiling blankly without so much as a hint of a struggle. She'd fought before, snarled in broken German and tried to claw though the chains wrapped around her like a vice, but eventually she calmed.

Now she said nothing, and it made him wish she'd curse at him again.

They were staying at some motel close to the edge of town. The receptionist did a double take when she saw him and Kat stumbling in covered in blood and carrying an equally bloody kid in their arms. It took a lot of explaining (and a lot of money changing hands) to convince her that they were just unlucky stranger that had gotten into an accident and not at all kidnappers who'd taken and handcuffed a kid against her will.

She actually believed them once enough money was flashed, proving once again that money trumped common decency.

"God damn it..." Spider-Man let out a frustrated breath. Why hadn't he shot Octavius when he had the chance? If he hadn't been so damned theatrical that worthless sack of shit would be dead, he wouldn't have lost five years of his life and he wouldn't be stuck in another world looking after killer little girls while his psychopath(?) of a partner used the shower to try and wash off all the blood she was drenched in.

The sound of running water from the bathroom was close to driving him insane. Gritting his teeth, he grabbed for the remote on the nearby table and turned on the television. He didn't care what was on as long as he had something to drown out the noise.

His wish was granted when he saw the Spider-Dame - Gwen Stacy, he reminded himself - and the Slant's 'sister' sitting on a couch across from a guy with too much gel in his hair. He was tempted to change the channel, but the fact that the little girl actually tilted her head to look at the screen made him abstain. That was the biggest reaction he'd seen from her ever since she stopped growling at them.

"Thank you, thank you!" The host said, mouth parted to show off his pearly whites, "Once again we'd like to take the time to thank these two for taking time from their busy schedules to come visit us. Give these two ladies a hand!"

A roar of applause came and went. Stacy seemed to find no problem in it, though Moon fidgeted in her seat like a deer in the headlights, "Well you know it's our pleasure, Josh." Stacy said, her voice carrying clear through despite the mask, "Me and Spinerette thought it'd be a good chance to clear the air and all. We know people have a lot of questions about the Avengers."

"Yeah, but don't try asking us about the membership benefits and stuff. That's still being worked out," Moon said.

Canned laughter came after the joke(?) and Spider-Man found himself glazing over as the Q and A dragged along. The little girl continued to watch the screen intently, her gaze laser focused on the moving puppets taking up the inside of the telly. Honestly he didn't care about what was going on, just that it was better than being stuck with nothing but his own thoughts.

"So here's a doozy for ya," The host said, "One viewer asks if you think that your presence is provoking the Supervillains. He said, and I quote, 'the amount of costume related crime increased in frequency over the last 10 years, which coincides with the time of Captain America coming back and your debut'. Looks like this guy's been keeping a close eye, huh?"

"Yeah, I guess so." Stacy's tone was clipped, but if the others noticed then they didn't say anything, "Look, I don't wanna sound like I'm denying fault, but think of it like this: is Jodie Foster responsible for her crazy fan shooting Raegan? I don't think so. I mean we're just trying to do good with what we have, you know? If White Rabbit is crazy enough to think she's my arch-enemy then I'll stop her, but it's not my fault that she decided to put on a costume and started robbing banks. I didn't tell her to do that and I've stopped her every time she tried."

"I'm with her," Moon added, "I'll admit I'm new to this thing so maybe I don't have any room to talk, but crime's always existed. These people chose to do bad things and we're just stopping them. Maybe they wouldn't have put on a costume if they didn't see everyone else doing it, but putting on a mask doesn't make you a good or bad person. If seeing people do good things makes them put on a mask to commit crimes then that's on them."

"I mean it's not like I told em 'Here I am, come and get me!' or anything," Stacy said, "Honestly I look forward to the day that I don't have to put on a mask and go patrolling anymore because it means there's no more crime to stop."

"Uh-huh." Spider-Man didn't miss the annoyed furrow of the host's brow. Was he searching for something, "Alright, well, here's another question from a new viewer: 'just what the heck is the deal with you and the Dark Spider? The dude's a Supervillain, isn't that against your code or something?'" He smiled like a damn shark, "You know, that is a good question. What exactly is going on with you two? A little Romeo and Juliet or Beauty and the Beast?"

"My relationship with Spider-Man is-"

Whatever she was about to say was cut off when the telly abruptly turned off. Spider-Man sighed while the little girl growled when he caught sight of Shadowcat's smarmy smile, "That stuff rots your brain." She kicked away the plug and continued toweling her hair dry. At least the blood was gone, though the tanktop and shorts didn't leave much for him to look at without feeling at least a little guilty.

"Mach es wieder an!" The little girl snarled in German, struggling against her chains again. Kat assured him she couldn't break out. If I can't do it then she sure as shit can't, were her exact words. He could only hope she was right about that - it took them nearly half an hour of scouring that damn butcher shop to find the damn things, along with whatever files they could dig up on that sinkhole.

Kat raised an eyebrow and smirked, "Mach mich, kleines Mädchen," she shot back, showing off her teeth.

"Alright, enough." Spider-Man pinched the bridge of his nose. His German wasn't that great, but he got the gist of it well enough, "Look, just let her watch the damn thing. We already beat her face in and tied her up, doing this is just pointless."

"Beat her face in? You forgetting her little skewer job?" Kat gestured to her completely healed mid-section, "Trust me, she's a little hellion. The Facility doesn't raise bunny rabbits."

"As you prove every day," he muttered, "Just plug it back in, alright? I gotta wash this blood off me."

"Yeah, yeah." She rolled her eyes exaggeratedly as he made his way to the bathroom, taking a change of clothes as he went. The wave of hot water was a relief and he let out a fatigued breath, pressing his forehead against the cool wall.

This was insane, there was no other way he could describe it. He watched the blood wash off his body into the drain below. He was no stranger to violence, but even Octavius' experiments were petty compared to this. It only took a quick glance at the girl's files to show just how badly the depravities science was capable of, though after the atomic bomb and the various chemical weapons he probably shouldn't have been surprised.

Human weapons...well, he saw the announcement for those Avengers clowns and he definitely couldn't deny the idea that even the government back home would've been interested in what made his 'gifts' tick.

Minuted passed, and when the hot water finally began to lose its luster he stepped out of the shower and toweled himself off quickly. Getting out of town was going to be a nightmare now that the police were searching all over - paranoia after the last forest fire, or so Kat claimed. Their best bet was getting a car and driving back, but that was easier said than done considering they had a little girl in chains with them.

Kat was gone by the time he stepped out, which only came as half of a surprise. The little girl continued to stare at the screen, which was now playing some kind of cartoon where a mouse tormented a cat for one reason or another, 'Couldn't stay to keep watch, huh?' He shook his head and threw the towel into the hamper. Kat must've been really convinced those chains could hold.

He really didn't want to know exactly why she was so sure.

Closing his eyes briefly, he finally let himself get a good look at her. The girl was young - 11 years old according to her files, but she looked years younger than that. Her skin was pale, showing little similarity to the tan Kat and her 'father' shared, and her eyes were a striking shade of green. Those eyes stuck out to him more than anything. Her gaze was distant and clouded, putting some of the veterans from back home to shame.

It didn't belong to a child.

Underneath the chains she wore a bloodstained patient gown, which only exacerbated how wrong the entire situation was. Spider-Man let loose another frustrated sigh and walked towards her, the little girl's attention immediately snapping from the telly to him. Her expression was cold and passive as always, but at least she made no attempt to snarl or tackle him. He'd take it.

"Look..." He sat at the side of the bed, close enough that he risked getting stabbed in the back, "I don't know if you can understand me or I'm just rambling, so just listen. I won't pretend to understand everything they did to you, but I know enough about right and wrong that I know how sick it is. They can make some spiel about the greater good or how it'll all work out in the end, but what they did was abhorrent. The things they forced you to do...it's not something anyone deserves, especially not a child."

She didn't say anything and just continued to look up at him blankly.

"So here's what we're going to do." He fished the key out of his pocket and raised it up. Immediately her attention shifted from him to the small metal object, "I need you to give me a sign that you won't attack me and I'll let you out of those chains. Okay?"

Not a word was said, but her head titled down ever so slightly in a nod. He waited for the blare of his spider-sense to tell him that she was lying.

Nothing.

"Alright..." He scooted closer and inserted the key into the tiny padlock at the center of the mass of metal. She didn't so much as blink, and he thanked small fortunes that she seemed to inherit Kat's fast healing. It would've been a bit too difficult if her nose was still broken on top of it all.

The padlock opened with a muted click and the chains fell away. Spider-Man watched as she wriggled out of the interlocked bindings, her expression going from blank to suspicious. That was the look of someone who was expecting the other shoe to drop any second now, which he'd been on the giving end more times than he cared to admit.

She backed away to the head of the bed and raised her right hand threateningly. The two metal claws burst from her knuckles soon after, coating her hand in another fresh smattering of blood.

'She's scared...' Or cautious. Or angry. Maybe all three. Spider-Man raised both hands in a surrendering gesture, "Easy, I ain't going to hurt you." Her eyes narrowed at that and she moved her nose, "...Well, not anymore. Least if you don't gimme a reason." He cringed. He sucked at these kinds of talks, "Look, you're just a kid. I don't want to hurt you, alright? So just put your meat hooks down and we can talk."

Seconds of tense silence passed before she eventually gave another half nod and concealed her claws. Spider-Man let out a soft breath of relief and lowered his hands, "Okay, okay..." He hadn't been stabbed yet, so he'd take that as a good sign, "Look, Kat has more of a clue on what's going on here than I do, but even I know that this entire thing's been a trip for biscuits."

She tilted her head, "Was bedeutet das?" she asked softly.

"It means...ah, nevermind." He glanced at the telly briefly before turning back to her, "Look, we gotta get you cleaned up, alright? You can't run around in a damn patient gown covered in blood." He offered her a hand, which she looked at with a narrow glare, "...If I wanted to hurt you I wouldn't have let you out of your chains. I'm not asking you to hug me, but I do hope you're not going to stab me with those claws of yours."

She sniffed at the air briefly before eventually taking his hand in a reluctant grip, and again he was reminded of how absurd it all was. Children had no place getting involved in death dealing.

He pointedly ignored the fact that he killed his first man when he was barely 17.

He lead her to the bathroom and and turned on the sink, "...Sit over there." He gestured to the closed toilet and began wetting a towelette with some warm water. He saw her clamber on top of the porcelain from the bathroom mirror and he smiled slightly. For a precious few seconds he almost forgot she nearly gutted them.

Seconds passed as the basin was filled with water and soon enough he found himself kneeling in front of her, one hand holding onto hers while the other scrubbed away the blood that covered her like a second skin. He was no stranger to cleaning off blood after a night through town, but usually he only had to worry about making sure Aunt May and Mary Jane didn't see him.

Not...this.

"...You need to take a bath." He set down the (more or less) cleaned left hand and got to work on her right, "We don't have a proper change of clothes, so I'll just leave one of my shirts." It wasn't ideal, but at least it'd cover her up and look a hell of a let less suspicious, "Afterwards we can buy you some clothes, but for now it'll have to do. Is that alright?"

"Ist das eine Befehl?" She looked up at him unblinkingly.

Spider-Man's brows furrowed in worry. An order? "I'm not your owner." He looked down at the wet floor with a frown and continued to wipe away the last flecks of blood on her wrist, "...Would you please just take a bath? And I'd appreciate it if you didn't climb out of the window in your birthday suit or something. This donnybrook's bad enough, we don't need a streaking kid on top of it. Thanks."

Another muted nod was his only response.

Spider-Man left a shirt for her before he closed the door, the sound of running water coming soon after. He stood with his back against the wall for a brief moment, just trying to make sense of the insanity, before he pushed himself off and practically collapsed on the closest chair. He was always told kids were a handful, but he had a feeling this wasn't what Aunt May meant by that.

He didn't have stay alone long. Seconds later Kat stepped through the door, two buckets of chicken and mashed potatoes balanced on her arms, "Honey, I'm home!" He looked up and threw her a withering stare, which she responded to with a cocky smile, "Aww, you miss me, Petey?"

"Yeah, I was lost without you." He scoffed. At this point he'd given up on chiding her for the nickname, "Thanks for looking out for her, by the way. Really appreciate that."

Kat shrugged, "Like I said those chains can hold. Speaking of..." She nudged her head to said chains lying on a crumpled heap on the bed, "Any particular reason you let her out?"

"I dunno, maybe the idea of keeping a bloodstained little girl chained on the bed just didn't appeal to me," he snapped back, "She's just a little girl...she doesn't deserve that."

"Aww, and you said you weren't a hero. You're just a big ol' softy, aren't you?"

"Piss off." He gave her the middle finger. She just laughed and set the food down on the small table nearby, "...What's the plan here, Kat?"

"Hm?"

"You know what I mean." He brought a hand through his hair and sneered, "What are we going to do with her?"

"Hell if I know." She shrugged again, "You were the one who wanted to take her with us. Far as I'm concerned that's more of a 'you' problem."

"Don't give me that." He glared up at her, "We've got a little girl with knives coming out of her hands who can't speak a lick of English. Something tells me people aren't gonna buy that you two are sisters."

"That's cause she ain't. Files say Kinney's her mom, and Kimura's enough of a bitch on her own. I don't need that Frankenstein wannabe as an aunt."

"Would you just..." He sighed and shook his head, "Look, we need a plan for this. Unless you just want to leave her here."

"Well sor-ry, bub, I wasn't exactly expecting another one of the old man's kids when we raided that shithole!" she replied, "Look, I ain't got a fucking clue what you expect me to do about this. I thought this was gonna be a milk run, in and out with a few files, maybe gutting a few scientists. After what happened six years ago I thought no one would be stupid enough to try and make more of us."

"Don't suppose we could just take her to an orphanage, can we?"

"Yeah, and then before the week's finished she kills everyone inside because one of the little bastards pushes her on the sandbox." She rolled her eyes, "You've read her files, bub. She's never been outside of the Facility and she's got more trigger phases than the old man has bastards. One wrong word and she's gonna be slitting throats and chewing on their corpses."

"Alright, I get it." He closed his eyes and muttered a brief prayer before speaking up again, "You mentioned something before about taking out those code phrases?"

"Yeah, but it ain't easy." She frowned and sat across from him, "From what we managed to dig up she went through the same shit that I did, so the power of love ain't gonna cut it. Killing people's second instinct to her now."

"How did you get rid of the programming?"

"Who said I did?" She smiled wryly, "They built the codes to last. I managed to block them off, but even then there are things like the trigger scent that just make me lose it. We're really damn lucky Kinney didn't have any in the facility since I do actually kinda like you."

"Yeah, but how did you block them off?"

Her smile remained in place even as she willed her see-through claws into existence, "With these." She raised her right hand to the side of her head, the tips of the claws nearly grazing the temple, "I usually use these for the usual throat slitting, but these things are capable of much more. I'm not gonna pretend that I know exactly how they work, but apparently they can affect the brain more than just stabbing through it. I used these to rewire some parts of my noggin so that the worst code phrases don't do jack."

"You...lobotomized yourself." His grip on the chair's hands tightened and he was reminded of Robbie's blank gaze despite his best efforts. That was one thing he wasn't looking forward to when he got back.

That was assuming he hadn't been put down yet, at least...

"If you wanna call it that," she replied casually, willing her claws away "I don't think we wanna do it to the kid, though. Only reason it worked for me is cause I know how my brain works, and even then I nearly turned into a vegetable, but her? Well...let's just say turning her into a drooling retard's one of the better outcomes."

"Fuck me..."

"Right now? I don't think that's a good idea." He glared at her through half-lidded eyes, "Hey, we'll be fine for a couple of days. We'll wait for the heat to die down and then we can pawn her off to S.H.I.E.L.D. Peggy can fix her."

"Yeah, right before she starts using her as a killer for hire."

"Probably." Kat's voice was more solemn than he expected, "And hey, why do you give a shit? You're gonna be going back to your dimension in a couple of months. It really isn't your problem, Petey."

"Yeah..." She was definitely right about that. When he got home he'd be too busy killing his way through the top echelons of the Nazi regime to worry about little girls with claws in their hands, 'Don't get distracted like your 'brother', Parker...' That clown spent months playing hero in this madhouse, and for what? A crowd stoning him while madmen ran amok? To hell with that.

He didn't get much more time to think about it before the door to the bathroom suddenly opened and the little girl stepped out. Her hair was still soaking wet and the shirt hung down to her knees, but at least she wasn't covered in blood anymore. She stopped and glared at Kat for a brief moment before she suddenly sniffed the air and focused all her attention on the buckets of chicken on the table.

"Well, looks like someone's hungry," Kat laughed, "Come on, I'm starving, too."

A minute later they were all huddled around the table digging into chicken filled with far too many preservatives to be considered healthy. Spider-Man watched as the little girl dug into the meat hungrily, her gaze focused on the next mindless cartoon the telly was showing.

It made her look...normal.

"...Do you have a name?" he asked suddenly. Both the little girl and Kat gave him a questioning look, "We need something to call you."

"...Code Bezeichnung: X-23," she recited, mouth still full of chicken and gravy.

"Okay, we're not calling you that." A letter and a number. It was too clinical. Inhuman, "Did none of them call you by another name?"

"You think those assholes would've given her one? Please..." Kat scoffed, "They learned their lesson from me. No names, no attachments, nothing. You start giving your toys an idea that they're human and they get uppity."

"She's not a toy."

"Didn't say she was, Petey. No need to go mama bear on me," she replied, "Look, let's just call her Laura for now, at least when we're outside and we get asked questions. I'll just say she's a cousin or something. Better than saying she's your kid, huh?"

"Laura? Where the hell did that come from?"

"It was that bitch's kid's name. Last I heard she got killed in a traffic accident, which probably explains why Kinney was such a cunt." Spider-Man almost felt an urge to block the girl's ears before he quickly chided himself. She'd already killed people, what were a few bad words going to do to her?

"You don't think that's a bit grim?" he asked flatly.

"You got a better idea?" He didn't say anything back, "Didn't think so." She turned to the little girl, "When we're outside it's going to be Laura, at least for now. Who knows, maybe Peggy'll give you a fake name when we pawn you off."

"Peggy...neuer Koordinator?"

"Heh...we'll see."

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Everything was odd.

X-23 looked up at the blue sky, her lips set on a confused frown. She'd been outside before, rarely, when her creator deemed it necessary. Training exercises, practice for actual missions that would require combat and evasion. The machine men she fought in the testing chambers were sufficient, but it wasn't enough to kill in a controlled environment.

The training exercises were difficult. She was released to the forest and told to incapacitate all the machine men who came after her. They were allowed to kill her and she could do so in turn. It was a test, her creator said, to see if either of them were worth the investment. The machine men didn't hesitate and so neither did she.

Her creator was pleased, and that meant no treatments. That was good.

She'd seen the town only rarely and always from a distance. Full of people - strangers - that didn't know what she was. People that didn't have metal limbs or claws in their hands. They were the kind of people she was trained to kill, but only if someone paid for it. You are an assassin, not a madman. Kill one or a hundred, but only when it is needed.

She didn't need to kill anyone right now.

The scents here were odd. The facility was scrubbed clean and always smelled of sterile disinfectant while the machine men smelled of oil, blood and sweat. Here there were too many smells, too many things mixing together. One person that passed smelled of coffee and cheap food while another wore a perfume that irritated her nose. The creator always made sure that she smelled like nothing.

"Hey, kid, come on."

X-23 turned to the source of the voice and found the human spider gesturing her ahead. He called himself Spider-Man, but he wasn't a spider. She'd seen spiders before; he didn't have enough legs. She nodded and walked towards him, hands stuffed into the pockets of her new jean jacket. Her hands itched, the claws begging to be let out, but she held it in. She was told drawing attention here was bad.

"You okay?"

She looked up at him blankly and blinked. They stared at one another for a few seconds before she nodded.

"...We really need to do something about that silent treatment of yours," he muttered, "Come on."

He walked towards a nearby building and she followed along. The human spider attacked her before, but she barely remembered. It was always hard to remember when the creator used her programming.

The other one who took her she definitely knew. The creator hated her for destroying the project before. Katerine Pryde, she'd said, is a bloodthirsty monster that only knows how to kill.

X-23 didn't understand why that was a bad thing after all she was taught, but she also didn't question. The creator wasn't meant to be questioned.

She was also dead now.

The living weapon almost paused mid-step before she quickly shook the thought off. She followed the creator because that was what she was taught and she never questioned it before. Now that she was gone it was confusing. The creator never established a chain of command - her orders were always meant to be absolute and the thought of her death never occurred to any of them.

X-23 found that she didn't care all that much about her death, just that she needed someone else to fill her place. She stared at the large man's back silently. He said he wasn't her owner or warden, but if so she had no idea why he insisted on keeping an eye on her or taking her our 'for fresh air'.

They walked in complete quiet to the parking lot before she stopped and looked at the metal and wood machine at the side of the door. It looked like something she knew as a horse, but smaller. The colors were pink and white, which didn't make sense. All the horses she'd seen were brown.

"You wanna go on a ride?" the human spider suddenly asked. She looked up at him in confusion, "It's a...you know what, just let me show you."

He picked her up as soon as they were near enough (it took all she had not to stab him on instinct) and deposited her on the miniature saddle. She barely grabbed hold of the dull yellow reins before he inserted a coin into a nearby box.

The first thing she noticed was the music. The soft tune reached her ears before the horse quickly began rocking in place. Not hard enough to shake her off, but enough that she felt herself moving along. X-23 raised the reins higher and mimicked the horse riders she'd seen on the briefing files. Assassinations in the countryside meant that horses were a risk to be killed off first just in case.

The human spider stepped away to talk on his phone with Katherine. X-23 looked down at the chipping paint and furrowed her brows. What was the point of this? The training was meant to hone her skills, make her a better killer, but she couldn't understand this. The motion wasn't strong enough to test her grip and the music wasn't loud enough to test her capacity for sound torture.

And then it stopped.

X-23 looked down at the machinery and growled. Just because it was pointless didn't mean she wanted it to stop. She grabbed the horse's head and rocked it, but it refused to move. Growling again, she grabbed for the box and shook it roughly, the coins moving inside. The human spider called inserted a coin before, so if she got a coin from inside then she could go again.

The claws were barely out of her hands before he was at her side again, "No." She glared up at him until he brought out another coin, "Christ, kid, all you had to do was ask." He wiped away the blood on her knuckles, "...I'm going to the bathroom, so just stay here, please? Thanks."

He inserted the coin and the music started up again. She watched him leave towards the side of the building and focused down at the horse again. Please. Thank you. Why did he always say that? If he wanted to give her orders then she would follow, but he made it clear they weren't that. She didn't understand why he hesitated so much when there were things she did that he didn't approve of.

A soft growl from her stomach reminded her of how hungry she was. X-23 waited until the ride finished again before she stepped off the horse and inside the air-conditioned building - if they weren't orders then she didn't have to follow.

There was a woman with blue hair on a nearby counter, but she didn't pay attention to her entrance at all, "Wait, so you got a couple of grand because you helped out a couple who got into an accident?" she said to her phone, "Holy shit, Rachel! We could leave town with that!"

X-23 ignored her and walked towards a nearby shelf. She grabbed a small wrapper with 'Popchips' written in front of it and immediately dug in, making her way towards the refrigeration units as she did. The food was salty, but she'd eaten worse. It was better than going days with only water after underperforming.

The fizzy drink she got was also odd. Katherine gave her a taste of it last night, but she was still getting used to drinking other fluids besides water.

She made to leave until she saw the shelf covered in eyewear. The creator wore glasses sometimes when she read, but the machine men wore something else. Shades, they called them. Used for either intimidation or an attempt to appear better than one was. She was almost tempted to ignore it till she saw the large ones covered in horses like the one outside.

She put them on and turned only to find herself looking up at the blue haired girl on the counter, "Yeah...you know you gotta pay for those, little dude." The woman with the dyed hair looked down at her suspiciously. X-23 tried to run past her before the older woman quickly moved to block her path, "Right, okay, no shoplifting. Come on, we gotta call your mommy and daddy."

She grabbed her arm and X-23 moved on instinct. Before the older woman could react she flipped her onto the ground and unsheathed her claws with a growl.

X-23 saw her look of fear for only a brief moment before someone grabbed her arm in a vice grip. She looked back with a growl and found the human spider staring down at her disapprovingly, "What did I say?" He pulled her back roughly and muttered under his breath, "Shit, so much for keeping a low profile..." He looked down at the gaping woman, "...Don't suppose we can convince you to keep quiet?"

"S-She has fucking claws on her hands!" she sputtered back, "Holy shit, I thought you guys stayed in New York!"

"Yeah, didn't think so." He tossed her a crumpled bill, "For the stuff she got. Come on, let's go."

The human spider didn't say anything the entire time he dragged her back to the motel. He was angry, she could practically smell the rage exuding from him. Every time the creator was angry there were always more treatment and exercises, but she had no idea what he would do.

"We gotta leave," he said as soon as they were through the door to their room.

Katherine looked up from the bed and raised a brow, "Uh...why?"

"Laura nearly stabbed someone at the corner store. I give us a couple of hours before the entire town knows there are three freaks camping out here." Freaks. He always called them that, but not in the same way the creator called her a weapon. There was no hate or disgust in it.

"Ah, shit." Katherine sat up and brought a hand through her hair, "Well, I already got a car, so at least we're set there. Just didn't think we'd have to leave before the day's done."

"Plans change, Kat. Come on."

The entire trip out of town was spent in silence. X-23 was used to quiet - her creator always talked at her rather than with her and to the machine men she was simply just another target to shoot.

...So why did it feel so uncomfortable now?

She watched the town fade out of sight from her place in the back. When she'd first woken up in the room she thought that it was another training exercise, that the creator was testing her adaptability, but after the first night those thoughts faded. Katherine told her that she'd killed everyone in the facility apart from her and X-23 couldn't sense any lies. The facility was gone now and she was still here.

Hours passed in the quiet and soon enough the sun lowered and night came. Katherine yawned and tapped the human spider's shoulder, "There's a motel not far from here, we can crash there."

"Sure that's a good idea?"

"Better than staying in this car all night," she said, "Come on, I'm starving and I need an actual bed. We could even share if you want."

"Not interested."

X-23 watched the two of them bicker back and forth about something mindless. She didn't understand their relationship. The creator had no idea who the human spider was and none of Katherine's files ever mentioned a partner besides the one they'd dubbed Logan, or X-1 as she knew him.

They argued a lot, but there was no malice in it. Sometimes, when the human spider wasn't looking, she found Katherine smiling fondly at him. He was the same, giving her looks of worry when her back was turned. She didn't understand it. She'd only ever seen attraction when some machine men made crude remarks about her creator, but the end result of that was always them being placed into the group fighting her for the next training exercise. From scent alone she could sense there was attraction between the two as well.

She hoped she didn't have to kill either of them, too.

"We're here."

X-23 looked around the room they'd rented for the night and sniffed the air. The traces of cigarette smoke and sexual fluids in the air made her wrinkle her nose in annoyance. She didn't know if Katherine smelled it too, but if she did then she showed no signs of noticing or caring.

"Two beds." The human spider gestured to the messy cushions, "You two take those and I'll take the chair. We gotta wake up early tomorrow if we wanna make it back to New York without delays."

"What a gentlemen." Katherine's smile was sincere for a moment before it became cocky once again. Always changing, "Alright, I'll wash up first. I didn't get a chance to take a bath before we split."

"Huh, so that's what that smell was."

"Just for that you're going on the couch when we get back."

"...That supposed to be a punishment or a reward?" he said back, a slight smile on his face.

Katherine laughed under her breath and gave him the middle finger. It was a gesture she'd been on the receiving end of, mostly after she killed enough of the machine men, but this time she sensed no malice.

Soon enough the lights were off and they all settled into their places. X-23 tossed and turned on her bed, alert and ready despite her attempts at sleep. Her hands and feet itched, claws begging to be released, and any sense of fatigue was overshadowed by the noises coming from outside. Her containment cell in the facility was always soundproof.

Eventually the urge became too much and she sat up, unsheathing her claws from both her hands and feet as she did. The sound of tearing skin was mercifully brief and she let out a soft breath of relief when they were finally freed from their confines. The creator never told her if the urge was intentional or not and she never asked. It wasn't deemed important at the time.

"Getting the itch too, huh?" X-23 looked back and found Katherine sitting up on the bed, "Yeah, I had em when I was your age. Though in your case it's probably worse considering you got actual metal in your hands. They left eventually when I got older, but I'm not sure if it'll be the same for you."

X-23 didn't say anything.

"Sure, gimme the silent treatment, that's not gonna get old or anything." She scoffed, "Look, you may not like me or anything, but trust me when I say I'm a hell of a lot better than Kinney."

"...Woher kennst du sie?" she asked eventually.

"Hah, now that's a long story. The things Kinney got up to..." Katherine shook her head, "Well, let's just say it's not exactly bedtime story material. Speaking of, when the itch leaves you might wanna get to sleep. We got a long day ahead of us tomorrow."

Katherine went back to bed and faced away from her. X-23 looked down at the claws before the urge eventually left and she eventually sheathed them once more. The already drying blood on her skin stopped feeling weird long ago.

She was tempted to go back to sleep before the human spider stirred slightly on the chair. Before she could stop herself she hopped off the bed and made her way towards him. As soon as she was close enough his head immediately raised and he looked at her through fatigued eyes, "...Kid? What's wrong?" He rubbed his eyes and sat up with a yawn, "You should go to sleep-"

"Es tut mir Leid."

He regarded her blankly for a second before responding, "Sorry? For what, having to leave town?" She nodded slightly, "That's...look, it was irritating, but it's that big a deal. What you need to do is control yourself better. Just because something irritates you doesn't mean you can start stabbing, alright? If I wasn't there you would've stabbed that cashier in the face."

She didn't say anything. How could she explain that the creator and the others never taught her that? That killing perceived threats was always taught to be right?

"...I know it's not your fault, but you need to do better. I won't always be there to make sure you don't slip," He reached a hand out and ruffled her hair. It felt nice, "Now come on, get some sleep; New York's still a long ways off." He lowered himself back on the chair, "Goodnight, Laura."

She made her way back to her bed and covered herself with the cheap blankets, the fatigue finally catching up to her.

"Goodnight, Peter."

Laura closed her eyes and drifted off into a mercifully dreamless sleep.



So...anyone remember when this was meant to be a Spider-Gwen and Noir fic, and not, you know, a poor man's Logan? I won't deny this chapter was made relatively fast for me, but damn it feels so disjointed from the rest of the story; and it doesn't even have the sheer epicness factor that Frog-Man has to make up for it.

Laura wasn't as violent in this chapter as one might expect, but that's because I'm basing her characterization on both her appearance at Logan and her early comic appearances where she was a pretty apathetic doormat due to her programming. So while she'll attack people she perceives as threats her sense of free will is absolutely shot.

Anyway, the next chapter is either the Gwen and Noir date or a Cindy focus chapter regarding her acclimation to Earth-65, along with some development for Harry. The former has the carnival cringe outing while the latter has the talkshow and some actual attempt at redemption for the Green Goblin. Since I'm (relatively) certain people don't mind either way I'll probably just flip a coin. You can give an opinion if you want.

Questions:

1. Following on the above AN, do people think Noir has exhibited traits of having a deathwish? I admit I based a decent chunk of his behavior on characters like Rorschach, Kaine and Red Hood, who exhibit deathwish-esque behaviors throughout their careers, but I didn't intentionally write him as someone who (unconsciously or not) wants to die.

I dunno, what do you guys think? It might be an interesting thing to tackle even if it wasn't intentional at the start. I'll also do my best to not make him suicidal or angsty, since the three characters mentioned above don't try to kill themselves despite their issues.

2. Given the comments in the last chapter I'm biting the bullet: do you guys want at least hints of romance between Shadowcat and Spider-Man? These two were only ever meant to have a relationship that could be described as 'closest thing the other has to a friend', but even then the fact that he's leaving crimps that. I dunno, is this a thing you guys want? Even if Spider-Man isn't going to change his mind about leaving like Noir did (at least partly) due to Gwen?

Incidentally, this does make me wonder how the relationship would go if I actually partnered him up with Cindy as per my original plan. At the very least the Weapon X thing wouldn't be a factor, but Harry would be a near non-entity due to the lack of a partnership with him. That and the relationship between her and Spider-Man would be a less fucked up version between Gwen and Noir, which was the main reason I cut it out. Shadowcat is at least unique relationship-wise.
 
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I like this chapter a lot, Spider-Man trying to make sense of everything...and failing, Kat attitude of that she gets Laura a lot, but holds back from reaching out(also apathia knowing her), and Laura robotic behavior mixed with animalistic behavior with a hint that she is growing fond on Spider-man

It felt good reading, but a translation by the side of the German being spoken would help a lot, the lazy readers, even if the responses can answer what Laura is talking about.

1 - Oh yeah he does feel like that, I thought it was intentional, not because of the Spider-Man baggage, but because of the human side of Lizard Peter, shame for what he has done affecting Peter actions making he try his best to atone unconsciously by saving people and getting rid of bad people or die a heroic death trying.

It felt fitting

2 - Ohhh boy you are asking the worst person...okay hear me out I am very very biased, as I am a filth shipper, so I would approve of a ship that makes smile without meaning while I am reading a chapter, but this could work if you can make Kat consider leaving with Peter to his dimension slowly through their travel alongside Laura, but if you can make a slow development of this it would make for a very emotional scene when the time comes.

It is a known fact that readers love reading about father/daughter bonding and to end abruptly would make the readers a bit bitter about the experience, of course, you can tease them by showing scenes of conflicting emotions, abandonment issues(both clones), healing scenes for Kat and Laura.

It could work, what do you think?
 
I like this chapter a lot, Spider-Man trying to make sense of everything...and failing, Kat attitude of that she gets Laura a lot, but holds back from reaching out(also apathia knowing her), and Laura robotic behavior mixed with animalistic behavior with a hint that she is growing fond on Spider-man

It felt good reading, but a translation by the side of the German being spoken would help a lot, the lazy readers, even if the responses can answer what Laura is talking about.

Shadowcat's behavior is pretty understandable. Remember that she said that (unlike canon, despite fanon stating otherwise) Laura here is actually the genetic offspring of Sarah Kinney, who Shadowcat beat to death the previous chapter and still has negative feelings towards. She probably sees a miniature Sarah every time she looks at her.

Laura's German is from google translate (fixed it already), but like you said you can tell what she's asking easily enough based on how Spider-Man and Shadowcat respond to her. Is there anything in particular that's confusing?

1 - Oh yeah he does feel like that, I thought it was intentional, not because of the Spider-Man baggage, but because of the human side of Lizard Peter, shame for what he has done affecting Peter actions making he try his best to atone unconsciously by saving people and getting rid of bad people or die a heroic death trying.

It felt fitting

I suppose, but my friend used the dinner scene as an example. Gwen also risks her life to save innocents, but it's pretty unlikely you'll see her goading someone to kill her simply because she refused to beg for her life. As she (my friend, not Gwen) pointed out, Noir's behavior is definitely unhealthy and makes it seem like he doesn't care how others who care about him like Gwen, Lana, Bullseye and the Parkers would react if they found him dead in a ditch with a bullet through his head, which makes him unsympathetic to a degree.

2 - Ohhh boy you are asking the worst person...okay hear me out I am very very biased, as I am a filth shipper, so I would approve of a ship that makes smile without meaning while I am reading a chapter, but this could work if you can make Kat consider leaving with Peter to his dimension slowly through their travel alongside Laura, but if you can make a slow development of this it would make for a very emotional scene when the time comes.

It is a known fact that readers love reading about father/daughter bonding and to end abruptly would make the readers a bit bitter about the experience, of course, you can tease them by showing scenes of conflicting emotions, abandonment issues(both clones), healing scenes for Kat and Laura.

It could work, what do you think?

The thing is does Laura consider Spider-Man absolutely enough of a motive that she'd up-end her entire life just to be with him? Shipper or not I'd say no. Her life might not be perfect but she's comfortable with what she has in Earth-65. Likewise we have to consider the fact that in Earth-90214 it's still the 30's and she's a Japanese woman at the end of World War II...yeah. Good luck finding work or being treated seriously, especially if your boyfriend - being a socialist and all - would be considered a communist sympathizer at the height of the Red Scare. They'd be absolutely hosed.

That's also not getting into the fact that Spider-Man would be her sole reason and she knows for a fact that she's going to outlive him. Healing factor means she and Laura will survive for hundreds of years before even beginning to slow down. We have no idea if Spider-Man has an enhanced lifespan, but even if he did it's not even close to whatever the Wolverine family has. So once he's dead (or more likely gets killed given that he's gunning for Nazi leaders...) she and Laura are absolutely SOL.

Though, I'm surprised you didn't suggest a reversal ala Noir and have Spider-Man consider staying in Earth-65 to be with Shadowcat and Laura. Granted it's equally unlikely, but still it's a suggestion. At the very least Noir's face if this ever happened would be a sight to behold considering how Spider-Man told him off for being distracted:

 
Is there anything in particular that's confusing?
All good.

The thing is does Laura consider Spider-Man absolutely enough of a motive that she'd up-end her entire life just to be with him? Shipper or not I'd say no. Her life might not be perfect but she's comfortable with what she has in Earth-65. Likewise we have to consider the fact that in Earth-90214 it's still the 30's and she's a Japanese woman at the end of World War II...yeah. Good luck finding work or being treated seriously, especially if your boyfriend - being a socialist and all - would be considered a communist sympathizer at the height of the Red Scare. They'd be absolutely hosed.

That's also not getting into the fact that Spider-Man would be her sole reason and she knows for a fact that she's going to outlive him. Healing factor means she and Laura will survive for hundreds of years before even beginning to slow down. We have no idea if Spider-Man has an enhanced lifespan, but even if he did it's not even close to whatever the Wolverine family has. So once he's dead (or more likely gets killed given that he's gunning for Nazi leaders...) she and Laura are absolutely SOL.

Though, I'm surprised you didn't suggest a reversal ala Noir and have Spider-Man consider staying in Earth-65 to be with Shadowcat and Laura. Granted it's equally unlikely, but still it's a suggestion. At the very least Noir's face if this ever happened would be a sight to behold considering how Spider-Man told him off for being distracted:

About what you said, damn I did not think of all this...really difficult situation.

about the lifespan thing, I think they can get around this if they stop worrying about the implication of the future and think about the present, something I see a lot in fiction when it comes to romancing immortal beings, pretty irresponsible, but understandable as love makes people do things like this.

Or Kat/future Laura does some side-missions to find something to make his lifespan longer

Spider-Man not going to his universe...well unless you somehow trap him in this universe(he is going to be bitter forever) or occurs some mindscrew stuff and he finds out that in those 5 years he disappeared...he did not in fact disappear and there is already a Peter Parker/Spider-Man already in Noir universe.

There probably are more ways to justify staying, but it depends on what you feel is for the best for the story, but right now I can only see a Bittersweet ending regardless of the choice made.
 
About what you said, damn I did not think of all this...really difficult situation.

about the lifespan thing, I think they can get around this if they stop worrying about the implication of the future and think about the present, something I see a lot in fiction when it comes to romancing immortal beings, pretty irresponsible, but understandable as love makes people do things like this.

Or Kat/future Laura does some side-missions to find something to make his lifespan longer

Spider-Man not going to his universe...well unless you somehow trap him in this universe(he is going to be bitter forever) or occurs some mindscrew stuff and he finds out that in those 5 years he disappeared...he did not in fact disappear and there is already a Peter Parker/Spider-Man already in Noir universe.

There probably are more ways to justify staying, but it depends on what you feel is for the best for the story, but right now I can only see a Bittersweet ending regardless of the choice made.

To be fair, isn't a bittersweet ending perfectly valid and appropriate consider the character is literally named Spider-Man Noir? The name itself doesn't really indicate the people inside are going to have a fun go of it. Another option would be he takes Laura with him and leaves Shadowcat alone, but that's still bitter as hell since genre conventions dictate that Shadowcat and Laura will eventually bond, meaning that's just exchanging one loss for another.

As for staying in Earth-65, I meant the idea that he's willing to just say goodbye to his loved ones and decide to stay in Earth-65 once he's made his peace. Of course the whole 'gonna kill Hitler, Mengele and Deathshed' plan kinda ruins that since it's not just about him now.
 
Gonna start writing tomorrow and I need some advice. Given the in-universe rules and reactions what would be the honest consequences of Gwen being in some kind of relationship with Noir to the general public? At first glance I'd assume she might take a rep tanking, but in canon Captain America was tweeted as being friends with Spider-Woman and it did little to raise Gwen's rep and tarnish Cap's, respectively. So would the public just treat it as Gwen's one blindspot like Cap's and let it go or would it seriously affect her redeemed image since Noir can be (charitably) described as divisive among the Earth-65 citizens?
 
The general public would be weirded out by this development and could create a theory that Gwen is a 'rebellious' stage of her cape life as she is using a black version of her costume and dating an anti-hero, basically seeing this as a phase.

Her hardcore fans would go a step further and say that Noir is 'corrupting' Gwen, while other more optimistic fans would declare that Gwen could be trying to 'save' Noir, in other words, two extreme opinions.

Gwen reputation itself would receive minimal damage as most of the hate of the general public would be aimed toward Noir, with her fans doing damage control and using Noir as a scapegoat.
 
The general public would be weirded out by this development and could create a theory that Gwen is a 'rebellious' stage of her cape life as she is using a black version of her costume and dating an anti-hero, basically seeing this as a phase.

Her hardcore fans would go a step further and say that Noir is 'corrupting' Gwen, while other more optimistic fans would declare that Gwen could be trying to 'save' Noir, in other words, two extreme opinions.

Gwen reputation itself would receive minimal damage as most of the hate of the general public would be aimed toward Noir, with her fans doing damage control and using Noir as a scapegoat.

Agreed, but in defense of Noir there have been people who have been saved by Noir. I would assume he still goes around beating the tar out of/killing drugs and sex traffickers off screen.

@Eratas123 maybe you can have a small token wave of Noir supporters voice their opinions in a sea of anti-Noir opposition.
 
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Hmm, so would Gwen be able to get away with not explaining herself? Neither she or Cindy expose their identities, for example, so if prodded could she simply say it's personal and refuse to answer? Especially if someone brings up the whole thing that Noir's a killer shile Gwen herself (mostly) exhibits thou shalt not kill? I wanna portray how much of a loaded gun even interviews are.

Also, another question I asked elsewhere that got little replies:

"So I'm wondering something: is the public generally aware of just how the Supers got their abilities? Like Hulk and the gamma bomb, Spider-Man with the irradiated spider etc etc? I mean Steve Rogers and Iron Man I can see being public due to them doing it intentionally, but what about the happy accidents? Cause now I wonder how many people like aoverdrive try to copy their origin stories hoping for powers.

I can also use it for a fanfic since I'm doing a talkshow/interview segment and I wonder if the Super (Spider-Gwen) would admit the 'irradiated spider bit me' backstory or say it's classified by SHIELD or whatever.

And regardless of whether it's public knowledge or not, would it be worth it to tell? I'm trying to write how much of a balancing act PR is - being open about her power source engenders trust, but also risks people being stupid and irradiating themselves (even if Gwen warns them not to do it) since Gwen knows from the talk with Teresa that it won't work again due to how the spider totem system functions. On the other hand keeping mum removes that risk at the cost of people perceiving her as being insecure and secretive due to her refusal to tell while other heroes like She-Hulk and Captain America have public record origin stories."
 
About the Interview question, I can see Gwen answer some questions to help Noir reputation, but the questions about her love life, I can see her dodging them and baiting the conversation to talk more about the public giving Noir another chance.

But yeah at first she will be really mad and react poorly to people sniffing about her love life and badmouthing Noir to her face.

About the question of 'origins', a person with some common sense can see that if Gwen gives the information of how she gained her powers, everyone will try to do the same even if it means death because people are dumb, and the prospect of superpowers is too much a cool concept to pass even with the danger.

So if she is questioned about it, I can see lying that she does not remember how she gained powers or say that it is confidential.
 
About the Interview question, I can see Gwen answer some questions to help Noir reputation, but the questions about her love life, I can see her dodging them and baiting the conversation to talk more about the public giving Noir another chance.

But yeah at first she will be really mad and react poorly to people sniffing about her love life and badmouthing Noir to her face.

About the question of 'origins', a person with some common sense can see that if Gwen gives the information of how she gained her powers, everyone will try to do the same even if it means death because people are dumb, and the prospect of superpowers is too much a cool concept to pass even with the danger.

So if she is questioned about it, I can see lying that she does not remember how she gained powers or say that it is confidential.

The issue comes with the whole 'you know he's a killer, right?' question that is inevitably going to be asked. She and Peter can barely talk about his methods and we see her being very uncomfortable when he talks about Turk Barret with her mom. I mean she might justify it by saying even Cap kills, but that's a poor defense.

It doesn't help that he's allied with psychopaths (Bullseye and Castle), the mentally ill (Moon Knight), a klepto popstar (Black Cat) and a rebellious teenage girl (Lana). Though Cindy does point out that same group helped save hundreds of lives during the Carnage incident.

As for her powers, what if she prefaces it by saying outright that it won't work and that they shouldn't try it? We saw from Lana's hospital visit segment that people are already trying and hospitalizing themselves so she might explain to tell people and scare them straight to avoid irradiating and experimenting with their genes, maybe make up some BS about others who tried to copy her and ended up having to get their arms amputated due to infection.

At the very least her specifically warning them off would prevent frivolous assholes from trying to get powers and then blaming/suing her for it, cause we know from real life and fiction thay people totally would. It's why She-Hulk was open about her origin in the fic.
 
The issue comes with the whole 'you know he's a killer, right?' question that is inevitably going to be asked. She and Peter can barely talk about his methods and we see her being very uncomfortable when he talks about Turk Barret with her mom. I mean she might justify it by saying even Cap kills, but that's a poor defense.

It doesn't help that he's allied with psychopaths (Bullseye and Castle), the mentally ill (Moon Knight), a klepto popstar (Black Cat) and a rebellious teenage girl (Lana). Though Cindy does point out that same group helped save hundreds of lives during the Carnage incident.

As for her powers, what if she prefaces it by saying outright that it won't work and that they shouldn't try it? We saw from Lana's hospital visit segment that people are already trying and hospitalizing themselves so she might explain to tell people and scare them straight to avoid irradiating and experimenting with their genes, maybe make up some BS about others who tried to copy her and ended up having to get their arms amputated due to infection.

At the very least her specifically warning them off would prevent frivolous assholes from trying to get powers and then blaming/suing her for it, cause we know from real life and fiction thay people totally would. It's why She-Hulk was open about her origin in the fic.
Oh yeah, you bring a good point with the 'killer/murderer' questions, hmm, maybe she can just say that she has been talking to him to ease up and become less 'pay-evil-unto-evil' guy if they switch up and say that he needs to be jailed for killing people she can bullshit and say that he is under the surveillance of Shield and working to help people to atone

About the people Noir is hanging around, she can say/lie to the interviewers that she is working with Noir to make their methods less extreme and she knows they have the potential to be heroes after what they have done in the 'carnage event'

The origin of powers point I totally agree with you
 
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In which case the question then becomes 'why does he get special SHIELD rehab when no one else does?'. Christ, the more I think about it the more complicated this seemingly simple thing becomes. Although I guess it depends on whether the host actually cares about hard questions or he just wants to make celeb gossip, so he might not care about the behind the scenes politics.

Hmm, a hypothetical question: what would happen if Gwen loses her cool and accidentally blurts out that Peter's 18 since she gets tired of the host calling him a 50 year old? Note that Gwen bullshits that she herself is 21 while Cindy clarifies that she's 28. I can't imagine Gwen just saying Noir's a teenager won't have backlash, assuming people believe her.
 
In which case the question then becomes 'why does he get special SHIELD rehab when no one else does?'. Christ, the more I think about it the more complicated this seemingly simple thing becomes. Although I guess it depends on whether the host actually cares about hard questions or he just wants to make celeb gossip, so he might not care about the behind the scenes politics.

Hmm, a hypothetical question: what would happen if Gwen loses her cool and accidentally blurts out that Peter's 18 since she gets tired of the host calling him a 50 year old? Note that Gwen bullshits that she herself is 21 while Cindy clarifies that she's 28. I can't imagine Gwen just saying Noir's a teenager won't have backlash, assuming people believe her.
This Shield question can be answered by Gwen saying that it was ultimately the decision of Shield to give a second chance to Noir, but she did play a part by asking them to help Noir. This could open a 'can of worms' that Shield/Avengers will be now looking to 'reform' other villains to the side of good, but a simply answer of "no comment" suffices as she cannot answer for the whole group without consulting them

The Noir age question...well I assume she will not say the exact age 18 years right? Maybe she will yell "He is younger than me!" and then they will ask "how much?", she could just say a year younger than her to be on the safe side.

But if she does yell that he is 18, let's just say that things will get a bit weirder as Noir will get some sympathy, {people will assume that some terrible trauma drove him to be so violent}, but he will lose some of his cred against criminals as they will fear him less, the theory of Gwen trying to save Noir will get more support as his age will create an image of vulnerability with Gwen gaining the attribute of a mentor guiding him to the path of justice

...

And people will say that Gwen type is younger guys
 
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