The Rim and the Hammer (Exalted/Warhammer Quest)

There is precedent for godblooded on the Solar Council all the way back to the Old Realm, it is in Dreams of the First Age. There is no precedent for gods being given this kind of constant prayer payment and authority. In fact this relationship runs contrary to the spirit of the Mandate by putting a god on the same level as an Exalted.
Is there some reason that we can't use any of the ways to trivially dodge that authority question which should be available to anyone with an ounce of political insight? The Council is headed by an Exalted and he's in charge, so the god's authority over our Stewardship actions is legally derived from the Exalted he's working for; done. He's now present at Council meetings in the capacity of "personal appointee of our Biggest Exalted Dude for Special Infrastructural Purposes" instead of a member and doesn't have authority equal to any Exalted at all because that's not a position any of them have ever held or been considered for. That kind of thing. Gods doing useful work under the direction of the Exalted doesn't run contrary to anything and there's plenty of precedent for it because that's literally what the Mandate is all about; the Exalted can make anyone they want their project managers and it doesn't threaten anything. Why is it necessary to overturn our legal principles in order to cut our operating costs by 60%?

As for prayer, if it's deemed that the prayer is necessary in order to give him the strength to do his job, then it's just a question of the city's rulers (which are, yet again, Exalted) allocating resources to a necessary upkeep cost. That's not messing with the Mandate, it's just facing the reality that in the absence of the authorities in Yu-Shan properly doing their job and keeping the gods adequately supplied to perform their expected duties, it falls on the local administration to handle it instead. If it's not actually necessary for him to do his job and we're just offering it as a bribe, well, it's still less than half the size of the bribes that we'd otherwise be offering on a per-turn basis so I'm a little puzzled as to how paying the gods less is considered to be putting them in a more powerful position.

Apologies for getting nitpicky on this. It just feels really bizarre that "in order to get your god to do his job you have to change the laws that you and your ancestors have held close for the last millennium, or pay triple price" is our choice. Normally I'd call that evidence of a flagrant power grab on the god's part with the threat of all our slow deaths by starvation as his intended stick, but as presented in the update it's our offer to him entirely unprompted.
 
Is there some reason that we can't use any of the ways to trivially dodge that authority question which should be available to anyone with an ounce of political insight? The Council is headed by an Exalted and he's in charge, so the god's authority over our Stewardship actions is legally derived from the Exalted he's working for; done. He's now present at Council meetings in the capacity of "personal appointee of our Biggest Exalted Dude for Special Infrastructural Purposes" instead of a member and doesn't have authority equal to any Exalted at all because that's not a position any of them have ever held or been considered for. That kind of thing. Gods doing useful work under the direction of the Exalted doesn't run contrary to anything and there's plenty of precedent for it because that's literally what the Mandate is all about; the Exalted can make anyone they want their project managers and it doesn't threaten anything. Why is it necessary to overturn our legal principles in order to cut our operating costs by 60%?

As for prayer, if it's deemed that the prayer is necessary in order to give him the strength to do his job, then it's just a question of the city's rulers (which are, yet again, Exalted) allocating resources to a necessary upkeep cost. That's not messing with the Mandate, it's just facing the reality that in the absence of the authorities in Yu-Shan properly doing their job and keeping the gods adequately supplied to perform their expected duties, it falls on the local administration to handle it instead. If it's not actually necessary for him to do his job and we're just offering it as a bribe, well, it's still less than half the size of the bribes that we'd otherwise be offering on a per-turn basis so I'm a little puzzled as to how paying the gods less is considered to be putting them in a more powerful position.

Apologies for getting nitpicky on this. It just feels really bizarre that "in order to get your god to do his job you have to change the laws that you and your ancestors have held close for the last millennium, or pay triple price" is our choice. Normally I'd call that evidence of a flagrant power grab on the god's part with the threat of all our slow deaths by starvation as his intended stick, but as presented in the update it's our offer to him entirely unprompted.

You can get him to do his job in a more limited manner with the AP cost, that is the Old Realm-approved way to handle this because the Old Realm lacked neither sacrifices nor manpower. With giving him a seat on the council you are compensating for the more limited sacrifices with authority in a way the Deliberative would find unacceptable.
 
I would keep in mind we derive our legitimacy from the Mandate as well. We could make do without, but this close to the Chaos wastes lets not make it too easy for people to be tempted at atrocious morale.

[x] To counsel us in our hour of need (Da Wei may be summoned to help with stewardship actions in his preview with the aid of a dedicated piety action; providing +15 to the action in exchange for 50 wealth)

We can revise the idea as public confidence recovers.
 
Would it have hurt our public morale as much if we had started with an Enlightened Mortal as the leader of the council?
 
Would it have hurt our public morale as much if we had started with an Enlightened Mortal as the leader of the council?

No, there is no rule that says a mortal cannot hold an administrative position over a city. There would be a bit more dancing back and forth when the person 'suggested' a course of action to the Exalted, but the kinks from that bending of the Mandate have been solved long ago in Sazakan.
 
OK, seems like not rocking the boat has won on this one
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Nov 20, 2022 at 1:29 PM, finished with 26 posts and 14 votes.

  • [x] To counsel us in our hour of need (Da Wei may be summoned to help with stewardship actions in his preview with the aid of a dedicated piety action; providing +15 to the action in exchange for 50 wealth)
    [X] To help lead us in make our way together in this perilous world (Da Wei takes a permanent position on the Solar Council in defiance of the Creation-Ruling Mandate -2 Public opinion Upkeep of 20 Wealth/turn; may freely designate one stewardship action in his preview per turn to receive his blessing and attention for +15)
 
Year 1 After Arrival Results Part III
Year 1 After Arrival Results Part III

The city is troubled enough already without the complications of kowtowing to a god most of them hardly know the name of. Privately you are certain that some more lasting arrangement will have to be reached. This is not Creation and you are going to need all the help you can get, both in recovering the legacy of the Sezekan-That-Was and in guarding Sezekan-That-Is. But that is a matter for another time, for now most of the people are in high spirits that the City Father has returned to you and 'the proper rites' are being practiced once again. The artisans in particular have been all but blowing out the doors trying to take advantage of the new blessing.

For his part Da Wei seems touched, though he tries not to show it too obviously. The mask slips most often around children whom he dotes on, often conjuring small treats and passing them into their pokers to find later with the skill he must have gained in the days when Sesekan was an important trading city and the haunt of many pickpockets. The custom of trying to slip small gifts into the possession of friends without them noticing is already starting to spread with the inevitable malicious pranking that comes with it having been put a stop to hard by an irate Carry.

Mayhap in time Sezekan will grow into a trading city once more in this strange land.

Sezekan gains Blessing of Da Wei: The City Father will, for a small consideration, enhance any bureaucratic or infrastructure working within the city (Add +15 to any stewardship action once per year)

Intrigue:
Skulking in the dark has never been among your skills and to be entirely fair it has not been a skill of Sigh of the Flutes through the Willow Branches. He is more the sort to offer a willing ear and let the secrets of others flow unbidden towards his ear, but now there is a whole world out there and you would rather find out about it before it finds out about you... or worse ends up at your walls
Choose Two Actions

[] Willing spies: Given that Bron was inclined to sell his soul to you odds are he would sell his ears and voice for less. Easier to spy on the wingless when one is wingless also
DC 25
Reward: The beginnings of a spy ring among the Norscans
Cost: 2 Wealth

Result: 25 (Success)

All your attempts to make clear that you are not of the Wyld seem to have done little good as the Skorlmlings do not seem to have a name for Essence or 'more than mortal' that does not reference the power of the Wyld, and so for all they are polite in their dealings with Little Flute it mostly comes in the form of polite refusal of any and all 'gifts' and attempts to recruit them, that is until he realizes that they simply do not see how passing on rumors could be worth the price of that he is offering. So in the end he throws up his hands and does it their way, has them kill a goat and offer dramatic promises of service. You even partake in one of them.

Mental note, stay farther from the goat when the woman who 'prefers an axe' has a go at it. Goat's blood does not make a good addition to your wardrobe.

Reward: The start of a spy-ring in Skorlm

[] Petty spirits of the air: Little Flute has always had a gift for conversing with and gaining the confidence of the lest elemental spirits, perhaps in another life he would have been a sorcerer, in this one he is a whisperer whose voice carries far. From small spirits great things may be heard
DC 55
Reward: Learn more about the local gods and elementals
Cost: None

Roll: 24 (Critical Failure)

Sigh of the Flutes through the Willow Branches has had no luck trying to commune with the small spirits of the air within Sezekan itself, he suspects because it is a place filled with interlopers and bright with unfamiliar essence... and so he and a small detachment of Wyldguard set off south just out of sight of the walls to try again. The skies there are well scouted and you had all through safe.

What finds him is not an elemental, no spirit of the wind even the most fierce, but a mad puss-dripping horror of the Wyld that seems to have been begotten in mockery of your people, cursed with the most unlovely features of woman and vulture and boiling with foul inchor. Fortunately Sigh of the Flutes through the Willow Branches managed to hold the thing's claws at bay long enough for his escort to rescue him and slay the thing. It did not even leave behind a body, evaporating instead into a cloud of noxious gas. Alas the wounds it has inflicted are much more long lasing.

Consequence: Sigh of the Flutes through the Willow Branches Gains Trait: Wyld-Sickness, whatever this ailment it it clings virulently even to the flesh of the Exalted wracking him with coughs, shakes and a growing purulent inflammation (-2 to all stats)

Learning: The domain in which you feel the most at ease and yet also in which you have the most skilled councilor. Granted Shae can be a little intense at times, but that is a small price to pay for such dedication

[] Ship of the Air: Well alright more of a boat but the Fast Courier Excellent Air Boat has the potential to solve one of the most pervasive limitations of your military, which is only being able to carry what they can take on their backs into the air [Shae Project]
DC: 80
Reward: Fast Courier Excellent Air Boat ready for deployment
Duration: 2 Turns
Cost: 100 Wealth

Result: 101 (Critical Success)

The restoration of the broken vessel continues apace with a mixture of cheerful cursing of the last engineer to run the thing and the occasional arc of blue-green flame arcing thirty feet in the air in a 'mostly harmless display'. No one wants to take a bet on that 'mostly'.

A surprising amount of the Courier Boat's construction and operation proved to be wholly mundane, from the mechanism of the air screws to the gas sacks which can 'under emergency conditions' be filled with hot air, Shae believes she could design an Air Boat which uses no Essence and could be crewed exclusively by mortals and which would still function adequately, allowing for long distance trade carrying more than can be borne on the backs of the traders and easing logistics for

Reward: Restoration proceeds smoothly; plans for non-Essence air boat prototype unlocked

[] A Study of Taint: the locals claim the taint is particularly strong, turning the night when the false-Luna is full, though they are so poor at astrology that they cannot even predict that. Still, patience can make up for a lack of data. Stake out some beasts for a longer period of time under observation and see what happens
DC: ???
Reward: Information, more options relating to Wyld taint

Result: 100 (Success)

The results are instructive it stomach churning. The beasts are for the most part resistant to the 'normal' levels of taint present in the ground and the air, though one mouse did produce a litter of mutant offspring which devoured the mother with no more than normal exposure that was very much the outlier. On the other hand the beasts exposed to the green moon showed manifold horrific mutations, most of which aided in some way in the capture and devouring of live prey. Herbivores gained a taste for meat, some gained entire new heads and digestion tracks, almost all subjects showed increased aggression and elevated pain. It was as though something actively wanted to turn them into weapons, not merely to twist them to fit a particular story or the incomprehensible recombination of the Wyld.

The confirmation of a guiding intelligence came when a stag which had been captured and staked under the light of the false-Luna twisted into a more human-like shape gaining a semi-bipedal stature, enlarged brain and changes to the denture and head consistent with a carnivore... and then it started speaking.

From context most of what it said are curses and war cries as it attempted to strike down the guards and escape, but the language does have some similarity to Norscan.

Use of charms was required to calm the mutant and even so it proved worryingly resistant. If this process it commonplace in this land than one has to assume there are far more of these warlike flesh-devouring mutants out there being directed by some intellect beyond the bounds of the world.

Reward: Information about mutation, controlled beastman prisoner

[] Enchanting workshop: a Savant of the Old Realm would weep to hear you call it that, bit for your purposes a spear that is a little sharper or armor that is a little harder could save a life
DC: 45
Reward; Improve the quality of the Wyldguard
Duration 2 Turns
Cost: 20 Wealth

Result 52

While the training of enchanters does not capture the imagination as much as the study of ancient wonders nor does it have the alure of peril that this ancient land offers it is no less vital and so far at least it continues smoothly

Reward: Progress [Will finish in 1 Turn]

OOC: Since I know you guys are going to ask, yes, the Beastman only speaks beast tongue since he used to be s stag, but you can learn it because linguistic charms are just as strong as the social charms you used to calm him down.
 
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Bad luck on the Petty Spirits roll; that's probably going to hurt until we can get that treated. Assuming, of course, that it can be treated, and it's not something that's, like, turning him into a Daemon from the inside out or something.
Decent to pretty good rolls otherwise, though, and great luck on the airship roll.
 
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Nice already we already got the design for our first Air ships fleet. Fast Courier Excellent Air Boat can cart around 3 tons, likely way more then we need, for now but a great thing to have.
 
Nice results on the air ship!

Are there flying machines in WHF?
 
The dwarfs have gyrocopters (helicopter gunships), and there was a prototype dirigible capable of long-distance travel in the Gotrek and Felix novels.
How far are those Dwarves from our current location? And how common are their gyrocopters?

If we introduce flying machines to the region (controlled by us, of course), for trade, war, or exploration, that could be hugely beneficial for the city.
 
How far are those Dwarves from our current location? And how common are their gyrocopters?

If we introduce flying machines to the region (controlled by us, of course), for trade, war, or exploration, that could be hugely beneficial for the city.
Well, the closest Dwarf Hold, assuming that we've appeared in the 'current day' of the setting (the 2500's of the Imperial Calendar) would be Karak Kadrin, the Slayer Hold, which is a distance covering some chunk of Norsca, all of Troll Country and all of Kislev until you reach the northern reaches of the World's Edge Mountains.

As for availability, they're common enough that most major Holds have at least one for secure passing of messages. But dwarfs are pretty strict about what bits of their tech they're willing to sell to people, because a work of engineering sold is one that someone might try to reverse-engineer, and trade secrets are a literal religious obligation for their Guild of Engineers. For all their Guilds, for that matter, to the point that the Guild of Runesmiths could just as well be called the Cult of Thungni, the Ancestor God thereof.

They haven't even been willing to divulge the secrets of conical artillery shells and guncotton to their most regular ally in a world of blackpowder and roundshot.
 
Keep and in mind the ships we can build are none essence powered. The ship we just restored is an essence powered one that needs essence users. But assuming a crew of 3 essences users it can cover 700 miles a day.
 
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nice update.
Consequence: Sigh of the Flutes through the Willow Branches Gains Trait: Wyld-Sickness, whatever this ailment it it clings virulently even to the flesh of the Exalted wracking him with coughs, shakes and a growing purulent inflammation (-2 to all stats)
yeap. classic Nurgle - makes even a victory costly. Just for a note, there should be some wild spirits of frost and icy death around.
better treat that asap. -2 is bad enough, but it can be a trap or progressing disease.
Reward: Information about mutation, controlled beastman prisoner
huh, nice! probably a nice link towards forest exploration, spirits of the woods and drums in the forest plothooks.
Better handle those before beastman decide we make good raiding targets. They have tools to be very annoying.
Besides, if Imperial nobility manages to pull off beastman orgies, maybe we can do something a bit more useful with them. Ind does manage to have rakshasa and monkey people in the army after all.
 
Bad luck on the Petty Spirits roll; that's probably going to hurt until we can get that treated. Assuming, of course, that it can be treated, and it's not something that's, like, turning him into a Daemon from the inside out or something.
Pretty sure literally nothing in all the worlds can turn an Exalted into a demon against their will.

If that worked the Primordials would have done it in the great war.
 
Pretty sure literally nothing in all the worlds can turn an Exalted into a demon against their will.

If that worked the Primordials would have done it in the great war.
That's not a good comparison. Nurgles Rot is a chaos disease that infects the soul and rots it into a daemon.
Closer comparison would be a version of final viridescence that after killing it's target makes a 3rd 1st circle daemon hatch out of twisted remains.

This doesn't seem to be the Nurgles Rot, but do we want to let a demonic disease fester in one of our closest advisors?
 
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That's not a good comparison. Nurgles Rot is a chaos disease that infects the soul and rots it into a daemon.
Closer comparison would be a version of final viridescence that after killing it's target makes a 3rd circle daemon hatch out of twisted remains.

First Circle.

Nurgle's Rot makes people into Plaguebearers, his daemonic footsoldiers.

A disease that turns someone into a Third Circle equivalent would be making people into Great Unclean Ones.
 
Do you guys want to see rumors next or move on to the next turn? You have enough connections to the local Norscans to have some semblance of a external rumor mill and of course an internal one as well.
 
Pretty sure literally nothing in all the worlds can turn an Exalted into a demon against their will.

If that worked the Primordials would have done it in the great war.
The Primordials did do that in the great war, repeatedly, until all the surviving Exalts were those who had the appropriate keyword defenses. :pImmunity to Shaping/Crippling/Disease/Poison/Whatever isn't innate, Exalts have to select charms for it.
 
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