The Princess of Blades (Naruto/Exalted)
- Thread starter Crilltic
- Start date
- Crossover
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
That is what storage seals are for.
- Location
- The Middle of the Howling Wilderness
Perfect. I don't see any other problems with this plan, so it must be flawless.
plotvitalnpc
Once more walking the path of the catgirl.
Also, the actual act of stockpiling them.
Unless we get some bomb ass (hue hue) crafting (It should be crafting, right? Not linguistics, or occult?) charms to vastly speed up the process, that'll take a long time, since we haven't turned ourself into a being of paper.
Unless we get some bomb ass (hue hue) crafting (It should be crafting, right? Not linguistics, or occult?) charms to vastly speed up the process, that'll take a long time, since we haven't turned ourself into a being of paper.
Citation for this claim.
1)You are talking about legendary figures who redefined the meaning of the word S-class.
Who dueled bijuu and walked away repeatedly.
Off their peak is still S-class to everyone else, and they're immortal to boot, which means you can't put them down without specialized techniques.
2) No he does not.
Sarutobi came to the Chuunin Exams finals armed and armored even in canon; if he could make extra preps he'd have done so.
Orochimaru had revealed himself repeatedly to Team 7, Kakashi and Anko, and had a Kakashi-class agent flitting around Konoha killing ANBU; the fact he had something in the works was hardly a secret.
3) Orochimaru is vainglorious, flamboyant and amoral. He is not incompetent.
Dude is still an S-class ninja at the peak of his game, working off a gameplan years in the making.
Dunno why you think mooks are going to stop him summoning when S-classers can't.
4)Konoha had 3 years after Orochimaru demonstrated knowledge of Edo Tensei to drill everyone in countermeasures.
They don't have it now; they don't even know he can use the technique.
And they have a full invasion of two villages to fight off; expertise is in short supply.
5) Vehemently disagree.
Sarutobi is a 69 year old man who retired once already, and whose abilities are explicitly deteriorating.
Orochimaru said so outright during their fight, and unlike Danzo, Hiruzen has not been snorting Senju bones to stay buff.
Konoha has multiple jounin who are still growing into their full power; throwing them at S-classers gets them killed.
It takes time to mature most jounin; Kakashi made jounin at 13, but only really hit S-class at 31. Kurenai hit jounin in her twenties, and is still growing.
Losing Kakashi, or Gai, or Asuma or Kurenai, hurts Konoha far worse in the long run than Sarutobi.
Losing a whole bunch of younger jounin/special jounin to ET zombies cripples Konoha in the medium term.
In the cruel cold calculus of war, exchanging Sarutobi for crippling Orochimaru was a good deal for Konoha; it neutralized a powerful enemy, bought them time to recall Tsunade, and allowed their next gen
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- Location
- madison
reading the wiki he's sending parts of his body through a portal to a pocket dimension, the rest of him is still present. given the bits don't just plop out if he moves while phases there is still some kind of connection. There is also the fact that a lot of exalted charms work conceptually, solars anti intangibility charms have at least even odds of working by telling the universe that the only way that blade is passing though that guy is by cutting him, and if it disagrees it can go cry in the corner with the concept of limits.
OverReactionGuy
Verified Sanity
...Don't know why but I found this hilarious.
IF it's "shunting to a pocket dimension".
We never see them at their peak at all. But during chuunin exams, their demonstrated level, I would say, was below S-class.
That's rather my argument, don't you think? If he isn't incompetent, and the barrier wasn't to his advantage, he'd have the barrier dropped, the kages thrown at the village proper, and deal with Sarutobi himself. Point is, he doesn't believe himself to be able to deal with Sarutobi on his own. Mooks who can delay Senju brothers while Sarutobi deals with Orochimaru totally wreck his plans.
And yet, it wasn't only Konoha who could deal with edo-zombies, nor did it look like some super-specialized techniques were used.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Fairly clearly linguistics which in this system translates to funjutsu.
Cost: 4m
Mins: Linguistics 1, Essence 1
Type: Supplemental
Keywords: Combo-OK
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: None
The diplomats of the Unconquered Sun write with a swift and elegant hand. This Charm supplements a dramatic action to write something down—be it a copy of an existing book, the transcript of a live conversation or an original work. This Charm allows the character to write at (her Essence x 10) times her normal speed. Instead of dedicating 30 hours to copying a manuscript, an Essence 2 character might finish it in an hour and a half. Instead of six hours writing and polishing a treaty, an Essence 3 Eclipse might prepare it in 12 minutes.
Mins: Linguistics 1, Essence 1
Type: Supplemental
Keywords: Combo-OK
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: None
The diplomats of the Unconquered Sun write with a swift and elegant hand. This Charm supplements a dramatic action to write something down—be it a copy of an existing book, the transcript of a live conversation or an original work. This Charm allows the character to write at (her Essence x 10) times her normal speed. Instead of dedicating 30 hours to copying a manuscript, an Essence 2 character might finish it in an hour and a half. Instead of six hours writing and polishing a treaty, an Essence 3 Eclipse might prepare it in 12 minutes.
Cost: 7m, 1wp
Mins: Craft 4, Essence 3
Type: Supplemental
Keywords: Combo-OK
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: Any Craft Excellency
The Chosen bring harmony to Creation. This Charm supplements a Craft action. It removes the need for tools as well as penalties for crafting without tools. The character still needs raw materials. This Charm can enhance a Craft action to build something, in which case the character accomplishes (Essence x 3) hours of work for each hour invested.
Mins: Craft 4, Essence 3
Type: Supplemental
Keywords: Combo-OK
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: Any Craft Excellency
The Chosen bring harmony to Creation. This Charm supplements a Craft action. It removes the need for tools as well as penalties for crafting without tools. The character still needs raw materials. This Charm can enhance a Craft action to build something, in which case the character accomplishes (Essence x 3) hours of work for each hour invested.
There are other craft charms that might be useful, but they do not increase speed. For example
Cost: —
Mins: Craft 5, Essence 5
Type: Permanent
Keywords: None
Duration: Permanent
Prerequisite Charms: Design Beyond Limit
The Solar craftsman has progressed beyond applying discrete bits of knowledge and skill—every part of him is an extension of his prowess, and intuitive understanding blossoms from every aspect of the world around him. The Solar perfectly un.derstands how to recreate any object he makes use of. When he climbs into a warstrider, he is able to estimate what prayers accompanied its creation, the temperatures used to forge its armor, and the order in which its parts were assembled.
When he fires a bow, he deduces the materials and methods used to create it—and to fletch the arrow it just fired. When he eats a cake, he deduces all the particulars of its recipe. Any effort the Solar undertakes to precisely reproduce an object analyzed by this Charm reduces its cumulative difficulty by half and the total number of successes required by his (Essence x 2), to a minimum of 5. With Craft 6+, Essence 6+ the Solar also counts each hour of work invested in building such a replica as three hours of labor.
This Charm cannot perfectly analyze N/A-rated wonders like the Five-Metal Shrike or unique miracles of Primordial (or stranger) design such as the Sword of Creation, the elemental poles, or the Well of Udr. Instead, it grants the Solar a sense of vague but potent inspiration—a clue as to where useful information about or elements of the wonder's construction might be sought. On all occasions when the Solar Exalted have at.tempted to use Holistic Miracle Understanding to examine an Exaltation, they have experienced only an encouraging-but-vague sense that the answer rests within themselves.
Mins: Craft 5, Essence 5
Type: Permanent
Keywords: None
Duration: Permanent
Prerequisite Charms: Design Beyond Limit
The Solar craftsman has progressed beyond applying discrete bits of knowledge and skill—every part of him is an extension of his prowess, and intuitive understanding blossoms from every aspect of the world around him. The Solar perfectly un.derstands how to recreate any object he makes use of. When he climbs into a warstrider, he is able to estimate what prayers accompanied its creation, the temperatures used to forge its armor, and the order in which its parts were assembled.
When he fires a bow, he deduces the materials and methods used to create it—and to fletch the arrow it just fired. When he eats a cake, he deduces all the particulars of its recipe. Any effort the Solar undertakes to precisely reproduce an object analyzed by this Charm reduces its cumulative difficulty by half and the total number of successes required by his (Essence x 2), to a minimum of 5. With Craft 6+, Essence 6+ the Solar also counts each hour of work invested in building such a replica as three hours of labor.
This Charm cannot perfectly analyze N/A-rated wonders like the Five-Metal Shrike or unique miracles of Primordial (or stranger) design such as the Sword of Creation, the elemental poles, or the Well of Udr. Instead, it grants the Solar a sense of vague but potent inspiration—a clue as to where useful information about or elements of the wonder's construction might be sought. On all occasions when the Solar Exalted have at.tempted to use Holistic Miracle Understanding to examine an Exaltation, they have experienced only an encouraging-but-vague sense that the answer rests within themselves.
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fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
plotvitalnpc
Once more walking the path of the catgirl.
Instant.
Instant.
When it can explicitly still take tens of minutes to do something.
*sighs*
Sometimes the durations and such in exalted just confuse me.
Still not a citation for the theory that it works that way in that instance.
Tobirama literally cast an A-class genjutsu that Sarutobi couldn't break, and genjutsu was not even his area of specialty.
And Hashirama dropped a small glade on Sarutobi as one move.
I mean, seriously, either of them could have killed old Hiruzen out of hand.
Orochimaru's curiosity is the only reason Sarutobi got Shiki Fuin off.
Your base assumptions are wrong.
I quote:
Orochimaru's self-professed goals at the Invasion were to stir up shit.Article: SARUTOBI: I know you're not the sort of man to act solely based on vengeance....you have neither goals nor reasons.
OROCHIMARU: Hmmm....Perhaps. But I do have a goal....Well, you could say....I enjoy watching things in motion. It's dull when things are at a standstill, isn't it? A stopped windmill isn't worth watching, you know. Though, sometimes it's good, because of the anticipation....Anyway, right now I want to make that windmill spin again, with the Crumbling Leaf as the wind...
SARUTOBI: Heh. You're the same as always....
Not total destruction of Konoha. Not even primarily death of Sarutobi, else he'd have simply shanked him in the throat when he had a knife at his neck, instead of stopping to banter.
His priorities follow in that order.
Furthermore, he literally had Suna's jinchuuriki primed to unleash a bijuu in the middle of Konoha.
As additional insurance, he'd thrown in at least one additional boss summon to attack the walls on top of the invading Sound and Sand forces.
And those are just the measures we saw on-screen.
TL;DR
Konoha rolled a successive series of tens to finish as well as they did.
And they still suffered significant losses.
3 years since a missing-nin S-classer publicly attacked a Great Village with Edo Tensei'd S-classers.
Konoha would not have been the only people researching countermeasures and training specialists.
You think for example, Suna, whose Kage Orochimaru assassinated and whose body he tampered with, would not make it a priority?
Instant in Exalted means "For the Duration of the Action".
That's why you can do things like use a Craft Excellency for an entire scene.
Confusing, yes; that seems to be a White Wolf thing.
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frozenchicken
Does not have a custom title.
Easier to think of it as 'the length it takes to activate the charm itself'. Compare it to Demon Summoning which might take hours and summon a demon who sticks around for a year, or an instant combat charm that produces a 1-round effect.
And I never said it did. That was someone else.
I get an impression that you think that Konoha's invasion was the first instance of Edo-Tensei being used. It's not, Edo-Tensei is an invention of second Hokage and saw use during his time. Orochimaru improved it, some, but it was Kabuto, later, who perfected it.
I question your base assumption that Edo-Tensei requires specialized countermeasure, in the sense that general "seal the opponent away" and "immobilize your opponent" techniques don't work against it.
One last point:
Sarutobi himself disagrees with you.
This isn't Orochimaru inveigling Hiruzen in a cage match against his will; dude made a calculated decision to fight in that cage.
Do you think Enma couldn't have reverse summoned him out?
Edo Tensei was a Forbidden Technique. It's not been in use since at least Tobirama's time.
There are reasonable arguments that the state of the art in sealcraft at the time did not have the theoretical knowledge to figure out how to defend against it.
Even assuming that other villages developed countermeasures(which is questionable, since no one ever developed countermeasures for Amaterasu), all the people who knew them originally would be dead or tottering.
An entire new generation of people would have to either rediscover or learn them, and gain combat expertise.
And most people aren't shonen protagonists; it took the Yellow Flash three years to develop the Rasengan in canon.
Because Hiruzen Sarutobi Sandaime, the Professor, the God of Shinobi, the guardian of the Scroll of Forbidden Techniques and master of most every jutsu in Konoha.
A guy who worked for Tobirama Senju back when he was Hokage.
Had no better countermeasure besides a suicide technique invented by his successor.
And no, there is no generic seal the opponent away technique in canon that I can remember.
There are bijuu containment seals, which do what it says on the lid .
There is the Lion Closing Roar seal, which is an A-rank technique used by Chiyo specifically to shut down Sasori by sealing his tenketsu.
There is no indication that ET zombies have tenketsu to seal, or which will remain sealed; the seal users from Suna certainly didn't use it in the Fourth Shinobi War.
Edo Tensei is a bloody terrifying technique for good reason.
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Chiyo readily remembers Edo Tensei being used (chapter 521, page 5), and she's an active shinobi. Oonoki is a tsuchikage.
Or he knew how the jutsu worked, and wanted Hokages to be prevented from EVER being summoned again. Which Shiki Fuuin does. Or he wanted to also take down Orochimaru. Or he didn't have chakra for anything else.
Though, it's interesting to note, that Sarutobi actually didn't know how Edo-Tensei worked. And neither did Orochimaru. This is evidenced by his active attempt at stopping Fourth Hokage from being summoned. In chapter 520, page 11 (I think, there might be slightly different numerations in different scanslation cites) Kabuto, THE master of the technique, the person who perfected it and understands it best, says, to Tobi, in a private conversation where he doesn't have a reason to lie (and this is later collaborated by Orochimaru's actions) that to be summoned by Edo-Tensei, the target's soul must reside in a "pure world" and that "if the soul has been sealed elsewhere or if there isn't enough DNA, they can't be resurrected". He states that that was the reason why Orochimaru's summoning of the Fourth Hokage failed.
And while I can buy Orochimaru not knowing specifics of Naruto's seal (and, thus, the fact that Fourth's soul was used in Shiki Fuuin; especially since he didn't know what Shiki Fuuin even was), Sarutobi surely knew it. This can only mean that Sarutobi wasn't aware enough of how Edo-Tensei worked to know that Orochimaru couldn't summon Fourth Hokage.
Ok, so. In canon, they dealt with the edo army the following way:
1) Restrain the zombies (shadow binding + "cloth binding technique", plan outlined in chapter 523, page 8)
2) Slap some unspecified "tags" onto the bound zombie cocoons (chapter 524, page 13), that prevent them from "being summoned again", whatever that means.
Alternative ways included use of "root sealing methods" which Sai knew, and Kakashi was aware of, but not capable of performing.
Restraining techniques exist. Not sealing, probably, at least not in general circulation, but restraining ones? Those sure do exist.
Chiyo and her brother were both explicitly retired.
The Tsuchikage is a veritable freak of nature to still be active at age 79.
All the Great Villages were deploying at least 10k combat shinobi apiece during the 4th War, for a grand total of 80000.
Color me unimpressed that you find two people who saw ET back in the day.
Explicitly contradicted by Sarutobi in Chapter 120, after he blows their legs off and they regen:
Article: SARUTOBI: [Just as I thought, I must do something about the souls that are trapped by the Edo Tensei or it's no use, it would seem...]
OROCHIMARU: Your breath seems to be coming rather fast, you know....
SARUTOBI: [This being the case then, the Yondaime's.....I'll have to use his jutsu, there's no other way.]
Only technique he could think of that might work was Shiki Fuuin, a technique invented by Minato Namikaze around forty years after Tobirama's death.
Does nothing to prevent Orochimaru from using other S-class ninja.
Y'know, like Rasa, the Suna kage he killed and impersonated.
Sarutobi would not sacrifice himself stupidly.
Not true.
Even senior ANBU members know how ET works; it was an ANBU member that was expositing about Edo Tensei mechanics in chapter 119.
Shiki Fuin was a new technique, invented less than twenty years ago by the Fourth.
The fact that it could trump Edo Tensei was never tested until Orochimaru tried to summon Minato during the invasion.
Kabuto was building on empirical knowledge that was won in battle, not because of some especial insight into the technique; it was Orochimaru's work that improved it after the Konoha Invasion.
Certainly wasn't Kabuto who summoned Hashirama at full power.
Restraint techniques rated for S-class zombies exist at the time of Shippuden.
There is no indication they exist NOW.
Gaara certainly doesn't know the Desert Layered Imperial Funeral Seal that he used in canon's 4th War.
Furthermore, the people we see using them eg Maki, Sai, Gaara, were all jounin-class or better, specialists, and were supported by entire divisions of men. Neither Kakashi nor Naruto knew how to do it , and they were both S-class at the time; they relied on other people to seal ET zombies.
These are not basic techniques.
Not everyone can either learn or perform them in the field, especially against S-class opposition; the fact that Sarutobi went to a suicide technique should tell you that he saw no other option, even if you choose to disbelieve his own words.
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Nope. "Sealing technique of the Uzumaki clan", chapter 619, page 2. He learned to counter it (and how to manipulate "Shinigami of Shiki Fuuin") from studying "ruins and documents of the now lost clan" (same page). Moreover, interesting titbit: remember how Orochimaru's arms were sealed away and he couldn't use jutsu for a while, even if later he could clearly use them again? Well, it turns out, that until and unless he regained his original "soul" arms, he couldn't use Edo-Tensei (chapter 618, page 10).
There is no reason why Sarutobi would not have recognized an Uzumaki technique, and instead called it Minato's.
Uzumaki Mito was alive until ~25 years ago, after all.
Just a retcon, like they retconned the origin of the Hiraishin to Tobirama.
I'm aware.
There's a reason I said Konoha got the better of the deal; a healthy Orochimaru was a major threat.
A crippled one, less so.
All this is largely academic though. We grow fast, but nowhere near fast enough to be more than a speedbump to Orochimaru or the Edo Tenseis, so I think focusing onto the barrier is a counterproductive use of time when the Shukaku fight is at least within our ability.
We already stacked the deck a bit. I doubt Sarutobi is going to nearly as surprised as he was in canon.
He's going to be bringing his Time and Prep game instead of his Justifiably Paranoid game this time since the Shukaku attack is not going to draw away crucial resources from his throwdown with Orochimaru.
The way canon things went I suspect he was already prepped for Orochimaru, the Shinigami Seal has rather limited applications after all, in fact, the only people I could tell that it's actually useful on would be the immortal members of Akatsuki. But he didn't expect Sand to be the enemy, so he wound up fighting Orochimaru with less support than he was originally going to have.
We already stacked the deck a bit. I doubt Sarutobi is going to nearly as surprised as he was in canon.
He's going to be bringing his Time and Prep game instead of his Justifiably Paranoid game this time since the Shukaku attack is not going to draw away crucial resources from his throwdown with Orochimaru.
The way canon things went I suspect he was already prepped for Orochimaru, the Shinigami Seal has rather limited applications after all, in fact, the only people I could tell that it's actually useful on would be the immortal members of Akatsuki. But he didn't expect Sand to be the enemy, so he wound up fighting Orochimaru with less support than he was originally going to have.
Spirit killing charms do not affect the ability of slain mortals to form ghosts. Presumably it works only because the subject is raw exposed spirit pretending to be meat, not encased in meat
Oh, he was certainly expecting Orochimaru.
Hell, the village was expecting invasion; if you go back to chapter 116, when Ibuki gets a report of 100 sand nin invading the village, his reaction isn't
[Why Sand?], it's [Finally, they come]. Of course, no body planned for Jiraiya.
One of the surprising things you notice on a reread is the fact that Kakashi evidently didn't know Gaara was a jinchuuriki; Chapter 117 makes it very clear that he's concerned, but doesn't recognize it.
Eh, the Shukaku attack didn't draw any resources in canon either; Konoha sent a genin squad to handle it.
Just occurs to me that if we'd gone Eclipse, we could be stealing bloodlines and hiden techniques left and right.
Sharingan, Byakugan, Rinnegan, Kaguya, Mokuton, Magnet Release, Dust Release; if it could be represented by a mutation or a charm, we could gank it with some effort and laugh at the owners.