The Politics of Tabletop RPGs

For that matter, asians is the most recent 'model minority', so that just, uh, shifts them as still fitting into the 'everyone who's not part of our white supremacy is stupid, brutish and evil, the asians are The Good Ones we use to claim But We're Not Racist, You Just Are Savages!1!', which, you know, another one of those racist messaging things right there.

I feel this is verging a little bit into not good faith in a "well, asian are good minority for white supremacist so this was still made with racist intentions" kind of deal.

They're basically just a bunch of vaguely stirred together american thought patterns of white supremacy meeting green movement imagery, and done in an incredibly asshole way- they have the ability to harvest unlimited wood for free explicitly in universe, so they respond to other people cutting down trees by murdering them en mass without warning and calling them monsters, and not, y'know, trying to negotiate a trade deal of giving them wood for whatever so they'll leave the forest alone. The fact that this relies on magic ancestor spirits only they have and thus others can't just do it if they want is Not Their Problem, Just Die You Filthy Savages.

....I doubt a sociaty rule by women with them as warrior amazons count as patterns of white supremacist, neither using european mofits, it kinda weird indeed united with some asian mofits as their dress and archotecture but patterns of white supremacist feel hypebolic a this rate.
 
I mean, considering that one of the head writers for World Of Warcraft is really really into Big Blue Lady Femdom, to the point his self-insert character is the boyfriend of Sylvanus Windrunner, the Biggest Bluest Bossest Lady in WoW (and he's posted tweets with photos of his actual real life self next to a life-sized statue of her with comments about 'serving his Dark Lady')...

Well, I'm not saying that was the motivation for Night Elves, because I can't say for sure the guy was working for them then, but it's obviously something that Blizzard doesn't have a problem with.

Also, all-female warrior societies are as European as... like, literally the entirety of written European history/mythology? The word Amazon is directly from the ancient Greek, they constitute a massive part of the mythology - to say it's not European-inspired is just factually incorrect.

The Night Elves as portrayed in Warcraft 3 are basically a right-winger's Greenpeace parody, with like 50% extra horniness smeared all over it. And that's a lot of horniness, considering how horny right-wing depictions of allegedly left-wing stuff tend to be.
 
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*shrug* I can't say that I agree with the argument against Night Elves, but if you think about the likely target audience they're going after with the design choices of the Night Elves then I can see why someone would make the argument.
 
That just sound like arthas and if anything there is the issue of "what should arthas really do" back them in plague village, jaine and uther are against killing people but the other solution is....what, let them infect other people? just put them there and waited them to die? the narrative just sidestep this by just focusing directly into arthas decision and what it cost him.

What Templin Institute wanted wasnt some Paladin becoming a Lich King, they wanted a "Lord Blood murder, ruler of Skullheim" who leads a bunch of xenophobic imperialistic humans who when faced with the onset of death at the hands of the Horde and Undead chose neither path and proceed to overpower Kil'jaeden through sheer anger and hatred towards the Burning Legion and become the new Emperor of Azeroth.
 
What Templin Institute wanted wasnt some Paladin becoming a Lich King, they wanted a "Lord Blood murder, ruler of Skullheim" who leads a bunch of xenophobic imperialistic humans who when faced with the onset of death at the hands of the Horde and Undead chose neither path and proceed to overpower Kil'jaeden through sheer anger and hatred towards the Burning Legion and become the new Emperor of Azeroth.
Not to spend too much time dunking on this YouTube video, since I've already unsubscribed to Templin Institute because of it, but what's really irritating is him implying that Cyrus of Persia would have genocided orcs if he'd encountered them when Cyrus is historically famous for literally not doing shit like that. Cyrus was a conqueror, yes, and that's bad, but he also allowed freedom of religion within his empire and didn't interfere with the cultures of the peoples he conquered as long as they paid their taxes and didn't start shit.
 
The lesson to be learned here is 'Blizzard writing: Not even Once'.
It says a lot that when I described my basic idea of making the most common "enemy" races in D&D core races, as a rough mirror to the 5 stereotypical D&D races, the first response out of my two friends who play Warcraft was "So like Alliance vs Horde, but actually done decently?"

Of course, my number one goal is to completely get rid of the "obvious protagonist" races. This is why I felt it mandatory to completely rework humans, as making them the boring default is an absolutely terrible idea. Every single race should mechanically work the same, with areas they specialize in and areas they are weak in. There shouldn't be a jack-of-all-trades option here, as I want all options to feel like a trade-off. None of them should innately be better or worse than another, and all of them--or at least the core ones--should be evenly distributed across the setting.

Depending on the setting, that means either several unique cultures for each 'race' or alternatively, numerous cultures completely separate. No having not!European humans, then not!Asian humans with none of the other races having that cultural diversity. Either all of them have that diversity (if we're going for a more classic low fantasy setting) or none of them have it and cultures are evenly mixed.
 
Not to spend too much time dunking on this YouTube video, since I've already unsubscribed to Templin Institute because of it, but what's really irritating is him implying that Cyrus of Persia would have genocided orcs if he'd encountered them when Cyrus is historically famous for literally not doing shit like that. Cyrus was a conqueror, yes, and that's bad, but he also allowed freedom of religion within his empire and didn't interfere with the cultures of the peoples he conquered as long as they paid their taxes and didn't start shit.
I feel I should point out that that was how Empires operated. The Roman Empire had sort-of freedom of religion and so on. Like, empires are built on the idea of resource extraction which is much harder if you crack down on the locals and need to go march the army in every year to put down a revolt.
 
Playable races are now gnoll, kobold, sahuagin, and naga.
The story is about these races banding together under the combined attacks of the orcs and humans as they keep expanding to every corner of the world, including the ones you are living in.
 
Remove humans.

Remove all the default races.

Don't give people options which you don't want them to choose.
Honestly, as much as I want to do that I'm marketing to the 3.5/Pathfinder crowd that didn't jump on the bandwagon to 5e or Pathfinder 2e. I'd be practically crucified if I didn't include the standard fantasy races.

Besides, I don't have a problem with humans existing in fantasy settings. I have a problem when they're put on a pedestal above the others. I've definitely had character designs in Pathfinder that required me to play human to work, and I genuinely hated that. My goal is to get rid of any "required" races or overpowered options while still allowing people to play what they want.

Plus since I'm doing the whole roughly equal counterparts, I can quote literally take most generic RPG fantasy settings and get rid of humans by just merely flipping which set of core races are used. Each of the standard races and the counterpart should be close enough that swapping them shouldn't cause anything more than some racial abilities and a couple of ability scores slightly changing. For example, Humans -> Orcs is basically just +2 WIS, -2 CHA. They're both +INT, +CON races with nearly the same class synergies and conflicts.
 
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I am reminded that Pillars of Eternity had differences and variations not just between various races but variations dependent on what country they came from and what their background was which came into effect into gameplay with different skills and dialogue options even before you got into classes.
 
Remove humans.

Remove all the default races.

Don't give people options which you don't want them to choose.

If people want to like, make settings that simply don't happen to have humans, I mean, I think that's fine but like...

If we're specifically looking to address the idea of creating fantasy settings where humans aren't treated as special/exceptional or in some way just naturally better than Elves/Orcs/Dwarfs/Lizardfolk or various other non-human beings, I don't think that's the right way to go about it.

Mechanically, just make humans have the same sets off benefits and tradeoffs that apply to others. Or if it's a matter of setting, well, we can also create settings where power dynamics aren't so massively skewed in favour of humans. If there are powerful human empires, there's no inherent reason to imagine that Orcs, Minotaurs, Lizardfolk, Elves, etc. could not create states of their own which could in some way resist or even defeat their human rivals.

Or Hell, why do we have to create such settings on the premise that different beings are intrinsically divided to start with? Maybe the world is a deeply cosmopolitan one in which different beings live side by side and there is no reason that the Emperor/Empress of Not!Rome could be a minotaur or a Halfling just as easily as a human. Diversity can be so commonplace as to be unremarkable. That merchant who sells you your magic armour? Yeah that's a big ol' Ogre who has an Elven assistant to help with more delicate tasks. The person who pours your ale at the tavern? Yeah that's a Lizardfolk. The wealthy noble lady who tasks you with retrieving her lost family heirloom? She's a Tabaxi but nobody pays it no nevermind or even remotely questions the idea that a very clearly non-human creature can be in a position of power.

I know it's kind of all the rage for fantasy settings to use prejudice against non-humans as a stand-in for real-world bigotry. And I think that can be used to tell good and meaningful stories but like... sometimes I think we could stand to break from this idea.
 
I know it's kind of all the rage for fantasy settings to use prejudice against non-humans as a stand-in for real-world bigotry. And I think that can be used to tell good and meaningful stories but like... sometimes I think we could stand to break from this idea.
To some degree, I feel settings that use non-human bigotry as a stand-in are also missing the point? Like, yes you can still tell very interesting stories, but I think that those stories are lacking in message (because they either then erase PoC or whatever other minority said non-humans are standing in for or have them as equals) and therefore can't drive the message those sort of stories are (hopefully) pushing. They feel less real, and importantly IMO, don't make real life people uncomfortable about the racism the characters are displaying. It's much easier for someone to disassociate themselves from racism against non-humans than more grounded displays.

A little rambly up there but I hope I got what I mean across.
 
To some degree, I feel settings that use non-human bigotry as a stand-in are also missing the point? Like, yes you can still tell very interesting stories, but I think that those stories are lacking in message (because they either then erase PoC or whatever other minority said non-humans are standing in for or have them as equals) and therefore can't drive the message those sort of stories are (hopefully) pushing. They feel less real, and importantly IMO, don't make real life people uncomfortable about the racism the characters are displaying. It's much easier for someone to disassociate themselves from racism against non-humans than more grounded displays.

A little rambly up there but I hope I got what I mean across.

I can agree.

The other part of it for me is that it's so commonplace that it seems to be almost assumed to exist but like... does it actually have to?

In worlds where magic exists, where societies have developed along radically different patterns shaped inherently by the presence of intelligent, sentient beings other than humans... is that really the way things are going to go 100% of the time?

That's one of the things I enjoy about She-Ra's worldbuilding. She-Ra, with some exceptions, leans in the tendency of basically "humans with animal traits" rather than "bipedal animal-people" but all the same, it still posits such a setting.

The idea that someone is treated poorly or even differently because they happen to say, have horns, or a skin tone outside of the normal human range, doesn't even really come up in the show. And nobody ever seems to be pigeonholed into certain roles, tasks, or professions because of their appearance. A large, ox-horned person could just as easily be a beekeeper or a shopowner as they could a soldier or a wizard.
 
If people want to like, make settings that simply don't happen to have humans, I mean, I think that's fine but like...

If we're specifically looking to address the idea of creating fantasy settings where humans aren't treated as special/exceptional or in some way just naturally better than Elves/Orcs/Dwarfs/Lizardfolk or various other non-human beings, I don't think that's the right way to go about it.

I think you're trying to address a different problem.

Removing humans (and other default D&D races) is a perfectly viable method, and it's a method which has an excellent success rate for the problem described.
 
I think you're trying to address a different problem.

Removing humans (and other default D&D races) is a perfectly viable method, and it's a method which has an excellent success rate for the problem described.

Is it? What if someone wants to see themselves represented but can't relate to aliens, minotaurs or what have you?
 
Is it? What if someone wants to see themselves represented but can't relate to aliens, minotaurs or what have you?

Also like, putting my own cards on the table here, but I find of late that I am actually especially drawn to human or near-human* beings. I don't mind creatures like Lizardfolk, Minotaurs, Tabaxi, etc. but if given the choice, I'd currently prefer to play something that looks relatively human.

Why? Because as a trans person, I like the idea of playing a character that represents my gender identity. Something that looks visibly not human doesn't feel as validating or resonant with my identity as something that does look human. And I don't think it's wrong of me to want to do that. I'd feel somewhat put off playing in a game that effectively forbade me from doing so.

I feel like flexibility is pretty key to having a fun game experience. If someone's setting or story is really that dependent upon certain things being inflexibly true without exception... maybe it needs to be modified a little.

*Dwarfs are short humans, Elves are pointy-eared humans, Tieflings are red-skinned, horned humans, Dhampir are fanged, pale humans, etc.
 
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my number one goal is to completely get rid of the "obvious protagonist" races
What if someone wants to see themselves represented but can't relate to aliens, minotaurs or what have you?
Then what you want goes directly against the "number one goal".

Why? Because as a trans person, I like the idea of playing a character that represents my gender identity. Something that looks visibly not human doesn't feel as validating or resonant with my identity as something that does look human. And I don't think it's wrong of me to want to do that. I'd feel somewhat put off playing in a game that effectively forbade me from doing so.

So you'd never play Mouseguard, Toon!, or Eclipse Phase?

Your loss.
 
Heavy Weapons Guy clearly cares much for his identity and that identity directly ties to how he see himself in humanoid-esque races. Of course I would play a Kitteh person or a lizard person, but that doesn't change the fact I don't see myself in a lot of fiction. These characters don't look like me.
 
Then what you want goes directly against the "number one goal".



So you'd never play Mouseguard, Toon!, or Eclipse Phase?

Your loss.
At a rough estimate I'd say half of morph styles in Eclipse Phase are human or near-human, so there are plenty of options for someone who prefers playing a near human? The others may be better examples, I've never read through their materials, but Eclipse Phase is a poor example for your particular point.
 
At a rough estimate I'd say half of morph styles in Eclipse Phase are human or near-human, so there are plenty of options for someone who prefers playing a near human? The others may be better examples, I've never read through their materials, but Eclipse Phase is a poor example for your particular point.

When you change bodies regularly, and you can often choose the details of your current body, how is one supposed to play a trans character who functions like a real-world human trans person?
 
So you'd never play Mouseguard, Toon!, or Eclipse Phase?

Your loss.

I mean, I don't really know what those things are, I don't know that I'd necessarily refuse to play them.

By the by, I don't think you meant for it to come across that way, but that kind of comes off as dismissive, and I don't really think your preferences for TTRPG characters are somehow inherently more right than mine are. I don't really have a problem with how you choose to play your games, and I would hope you would extend me the same courtesy.

Heavy Weapons Guy clearly cares much for his identity and that identity directly ties to how he see himself in humanoid-esque races. Of course I would play a Kitteh person or a lizard person, but that doesn't change the fact I don't see myself in a lot of fiction. These characters don't look like me.

Could I have fun playing as a Lizardfolk? Sure.

But sometimes I want to play my vampire noble lady and I don't think it's wrong to want the option.

And like, that's not even getting into the fact that like... representation for certain people basically doesn't exist and you basically have to either make something on your own or play a species that is a non-human stand-in for certain civilisations/societies.

Which... must be a pain in the arse to say the very least.
 
When you change bodies regularly, and you can often choose the details of your current body, how is one supposed to play a trans character who functions like a real-world human trans person?
I think that's kind of the point? With high fantasy settings such as D&D or Pathfinder or transhumanist ones like Eclipse Phase, there literally is no visible, mechanical, or cultural difference between a trans person and a cis one. Because be it magic, alchemical gender reassignment treatment, or literal body-swapping being a trans individual in these settings is not the same as in real life; it's the realized dream of many trans individuals worldwide.
 
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