The Eldritch One (Celestial Forge)

[theTwitMachine]

I don't understand how casual faultline is being there. She took money to break the unwritten rules. not only is she and her team fair game to be killed, if its publicized plenty of people will start going after them. Heck, the PRT isn't going to be ok with faultline kidnapping parahumans in their civilian IDs in brockton bay.

This whole thing reads like the super careful mercenary has no idea whats going on.

and this isn't civilians ordering hits - we found out the mccormicks have multiple parahumans, and faultline isn't a "civilian" no matter what - her participation is against unwritten rules no matter who orders it.

 

[Bugs]

That's simple enough. They kidnapped her in humanoid form, then she melted after Neuter tagged her. Which was a nuisance. Faultline then went to get a fishtank so that Taylor would be able to relax --if that was the form she took while unconscious (sleeping?). Seems legit to me.

Attacking in her civilian identity is less grey when you squint and realize it was not at the orders of a cape. Civilians aren't protected by the unwritten rules. This was a hit on her civilian identity by a civilian, who hired a cape because he suspected Taylor was a brute. (She is SOO much more but that is moot.)

I am surprised Neuter didn't throw a bag of Twizzlers at Taylor to calm her down. (Makes Mouths Happy!)

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I think you mean Newter. Neuter means somebody with no sex drive whatsoever, which does not describe him.

 

[eragon57]

That's simple enough. They kidnapped her in humanoid form, then she melted after Neuter tagged her. Which was a nuisance. Faultline then went to get a fishtank so that Taylor would be able to relax --if that was the form she took while unconscious (sleeping?). Seems legit to me.

Attacking in her civilian identity is less grey when you squint and realize it was not at the orders of a cape. Civilians aren't protected by the unwritten rules. This was a hit on her civilian identity by a civilian, who hired a cape because he suspected Taylor was a brute. (She is SOO much more but that is moot.)

I am surprised Neuter didn't throw a bag of Twizzlers at Taylor to calm her down. (Makes Mouths Happy!)

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Do we know for sure it was a civilian that payed faultline to kidnap Taylor? The family is known for having parahumans. Even if it the one that hired the hit wasn't a parahuman, they would be part of a parahuman family. It would be like if an empire gangster could put a hit on a parahuman's civ id and the empire wouldn't hold any responsibility. That doesn't work, because if it did, the rules would be pointless since parahumans could just use proxies ignore the rules.

Even if that did work, faultline still took a job to attack a parahuman in civilian id. Even if they were payed by a normal, they are still breaking the rules for cash. If someone found out Dauntless' civ id and payed a parahuman to attack them in their own house, do you not think that would be a breach of the rules for the parahuman that accepted job? Faultline was offered money to break the rules, and she accepted the deal.

 

[Araurlis]

Then maybe across town isn't that unlikely for a single target you're actively in contact with. Second, people in Worm seem to have weird ideas about telepathy/mindreading. Precogs basically have to do that all the time if they're going to be accurate.

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There's two ways to do pre-cog:

1. Tachyon detector that can produce an image of a precise future moment. This is both the most accurate and least reliable as it's predicated on everything staying exactly the same. For the chances of that speak to the butterfly.
2. Modelling of everything's motion and thought processes. This has a growing margin of error the longer from the initial state but is, to some degree, more reliable. For this to work the Shard Network needs to be reading everything's mind.

Of course, just because the Shard Network is reading minds doesn't mean that it's making those thoughts available to the host.

And we're not even talking about Mastering which requires that the Shard Network be able to write people's minds.

They kidnapped her in humanoid form, then she melted after Neuter tagged her.

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Ah, no. Newter tagged her, she dropped into a puddle, and then they scooped her up and took her to the Palanquin.

Let me tell you it was a goddamn nightmare getting Taylor moved after she fucking melted. Had to drive extra slow to avoid her slipping through the cracks between the riveted metal sheets.

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[Just A Dude]

She took money to break the unwritten rules.

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Except she didn't.

The bounty was put out on Taylor's civilian identity, not on her non-existent costumed identity, thus when Faultline attacked Taylor in her civilian identity no cape "rules" were broken. Her parahuman status is irrelevant except in terms of practical difficulties doing the job.

 

[Kahalah]

Except you don't target parahumans in their civilian id at all. It is one of the most fundamental unwritten rules of Bet. Villains outnumber heroes 3 to 1 at least in most cities most of the time it is higher. Heroes and Cauldron need villains capes to fight Endbringers. If they can be attacked in their civilian id or have bounties placed against them then Endbringer fights become thousand times harder. Faultline basically cause a massive blunder by pulling this shit. Her trustworthiness and reputation is shot to hell. If Tattletale or Taylor release the information Faultline and her underlings are dead men walking or cauldron experiments.

 

[Anomalous Object]

Except you don't target parahumans in their civilian id at all. It is one of the most fundamental unwritten rules of Bet. Villains outnumber heroes 3 to 1 at least in most cities most of the time it is higher. Heroes and Cauldron need villains capes to fight Endbringers. If they can be attacked in their civilian id or have bounties placed against them then Endbringer fights become thousand times harder. Faultline basically cause a massive blunder by pulling this shit. Her trustworthiness and reputation is shot to hell. If Tattletale or Taylor release the information Faultline and her underlings are dead men walking or cauldron experiments.

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You don't target Parahumans in their civilian identities for what they do in their Cape identities; you can still go after Skidmark's civilian identity, for instance, for what crimes he commits in them.

Edit: as long as the hit was put on Taylor herself the hitmen should be in the clear while the people who put the hit on her, knowing that they were doing it for Cape reasons, shouldn't be.

 

[Skierus]

You don't target Parahumans in their civilian identities for what they do in their Cape identities; you can still go after Skidmark's civilian identity, for instance, for what crimes he commits in them.

Edit: as long as the hit was put on Taylor herself the hitmen should be in the clear while the people who put the hit on her, knowing that they were doing it for Cape reasons, shouldn't be.

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Except you are missing the entire point. The unwritten rules are what you do so as to avoid capes going S9 on you. The people who put the hit failed, breached said rules and now the undersiders are going to kill them all for going too far, exactly how the rules work. They are unwritten cause on this topic those who rule lawyer are better off dead. Only thing up for debate is how complicent faultlines crew is.

Another show of this is when purity's child is taken in canon that was a rule break, and she started rampaging and killing near indiscriminately as her response. They broke the rules, she went actively lethal. This is within the rules.

Doesnt mean laws arent applied murder is murder... but poke past the rules and surrender or de-escalation disapear. And the only way to deal with an enemy that keeps escalating is to out escalate them.

 

[Bob Saget]

Criticisms. The narrative is becoming stale. The characterization/dialogue is fairly flat, and with many characters cradling the idiot ball, there's not much to sink teeth into. Conflict could be good, but the present conflict is unthreatening on many levels, and is coming off as somewhat forced and contrived.

The dissonance of all the above isn't being played to notable comedic effect. So instead of fighting happening it feels more like watching a paintball battle with the participants not understanding how to turn the safeties off.

 

[Assembler Maniac]

You don't target Parahumans in their civilian identities for what they do in their Cape identities; you can still go after Skidmark's civilian identity, for instance, for what crimes he commits in them.

Edit: as long as the hit was put on Taylor herself the hitmen should be in the clear while the people who put the hit on her, knowing that they were doing it for Cape reasons, shouldn't be.

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You can go after Skidmark in his Adam Mustain identity, for things that Adam did, like steal a car, start a barfight, punching old ladies, you know, mundane things.

Taylor was attacked BECAUSE of what she did AS A CAPE. If she had bludgeoned their son to death with a lead pipe, then MAYBE the unwritten rules wouldn't apply, but she killed him with acid, out of her 'skin' which pretty much defines what she did as a cape action, even if she doesn't really have a cape identity at the moment. She's an outed cape, and that lowers the separation bar quite a bit. Besides, it's not like she's even had a chance at a cape life yet.

I also don't think Faultline would have voluntarily kidnapped a minor. That just doesn't seem like her style, especially since she took on care of Labrynthe because nobody else would. Faultline allowing a minor to come to harm just grates on ma brain a bit. And you absolutely know she had a clue about what McCormick wanted to do to Taylor.

forgot to mention - I'm done beating this particular dead horse, it's a pretty thin paste already...

 

[Aganippe]

Honestly, the parameters changed significantly once the target was revealed to be understood to hold a parahuman ability.
The fact that they still took this plan of action does make them a party to, if not the driving behind a breach of the unwritten rules.

If they had agreed to the contract without knowing that she was believed to be a parahuman, then ok, Faultlines crew could have back peddled hard and had it be "our client set us up".
It would have required Faultline to go after the client, but would have been within the rules.

Honestly, this is along the lines of what I was expecting, rather than "Ok, we broke the rules, but don't blame us, we were paid to do it".

Faultline is an adult and supposed professional. That kind of excuse does not fly.

 

[Optimal Robotics]

If they had agreed to the contract without knowing that she was believed to be a parahuman, then ok, Faultlines crew could have back peddled hard and had it be "our client set us up".
It would have required Faultline to go after the client, but would have been within the rules.

Honestly, this is along the lines of what I was expecting, rather than "Ok, we broke the rules, but don't blame us, we were paid to do it".

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But she did offer to go kill the McCormicks with them. She would've made an outing of it. She was just being greedy and tried to get paid for the work involved.

 

[karloss99]

Taylor was attacked BECAUSE of what she did AS A CAPE. If she had bludgeoned their son to death with a lead pipe, then MAYBE the unwritten rules wouldn't apply, but she killed him with acid, out of her 'skin' which pretty much defines what she did as a cape action,

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Uhh...

"I guess I shouldn't be surprised that a normal girl wouldn't stand up as well as the Brute did." I liquefy the parts of my hands that aren't rotted to return the biomass to me. "Wait, what the-" In response to my injury I grab his head with a new tentacle and smash it into the edge of the sheet metal. He wasn't totally helpless while I did this. He managed to flail outwards and punch a rotten hole straight through my chest. Good thing I don't have organs anymore, or else that would've been brutal. I prepare myself for his next attack-

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Yeah, no. The only way this could be interpreted as 'Cape Action' is by the fact that Taylor's non-human biology meant she didn't die.

Basically, yeah, the situation is all kinds of fucked up, the Unwritten rules might or might not apply and discussing moralities of a team of straight up mercenaries is a great way to waste time.

But basically, No, Taylor didn't do that kill under any kind of Cape Identity.

 

[Aganippe]

But she did offer to go kill the McCormicks with them. She would've made an outing of it. She was just being greedy and tried to get paid for the work involved.

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.. I am honestly not sure if you are trying to obtuse with this.
That she was willing to go after her client only works if A, they had actually set her up, rather than her willingly breaking the rules for cash, and B, she wasn't asking the victim to pay her for it.

She is a mercenary. Reputation is *everything*. Risking landing a reputation as an outfit that will break the social contracts surrounding such work? Terrible. Gaining a reputation as someone who will have the gall to expect payment for reparation from thier actions * from the party the reparation is toward* is so much worse

Uhh...


Yeah, no. The only way this could be interpreted as 'Cape Action' is by the fact that Taylor's non-human biology meant she didn't die.


Basically, yeah, the situation is all kinds of fucked up, the Unwritten rules might or might not apply and discussing moralities of a team of straight up mercenaries is a great way to waste time.


But basically, No, Taylor didn't do that kill under any kind of Cape Identity.

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No one is saying she did. But that Faultline choose to attack a known parahuman in her home. It is this that is against the rules.


That Faultline made that choice because of money, is at best, irrelevant

 

[Optimal Robotics]

.. I am honestly not sure if you are trying to obtuse with this.
That she was willing to go after her client only works if A, they had actually set her up, rather than her willingly breaking the rules for cash, and B, she wasn't asking the victim to pay her for it.

She is a mercenary. Reputation is *everything*. Risking landing a reputation as an outfit that will break the social contracts surrounding such work? Terrible. Gaining a reputation as someone who will have the gall to expect payment for reparation from thier actions * from the party the reparation is toward* is so much worse

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The only thing that's canon I remember about Faultline's work ethic is that she expected to be paid for working against Bakuda. While she was actively terror bombing the city and the Palanquin was presumably a hard target for acting as the base of operations for her group. She made it clear that she never works free. She may have a heart of gold concerning Case 53s, but she does not give one solitary flying fuck for the general public.

 

[karloss99]

That she was willing to go after her client only works if A, they had actually set her up, rather than her willingly breaking the rules for cash

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As Faultline herself said:

"I'll talk to the asshole who tried to cheat me however I want. Matter of fact, I just heard Taylor Hebert, the basic brute parahuman does not actually exist. Job done, no refunds. I'm gonna need fifteen million to go after Taylor Hebert, the brute changer mover striker nightmare combo that does exist."

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Giving false info, even if it's 'merely' not admitting to potential lack of precision in intel provided, can very much, rightfully, be seen as 'setting her up'.

No one is saying she did. But that Faultline choose to attack a known parahuman in her home. It is this that is against the rules.

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Again, please be accurate to the actual story:

"Hey babe." From a dude in a trenchcoat and a hat over his face. Oh boy. This seems super shady. We're in front of one of the alleyways I use to shake any potential tails. One of three I use on my route currently. Oh, if a new gang is setting up shop here that's going to be so inconvenient.

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The attack took place nowhere near Taylor's home. Nor the hideout of the Undersiders.

 

[Aganippe]

The only thing that's canon I remember about Faultline's work ethic is that she expected to be paid for working against Bakuda. While she was actively terror bombing the city and the Palanquin was presumably a hard target for acting as the base of operations for her group. She made it clear that she never works free. She may have a heart of gold concerning Case 53s, but she does not give one solitary flying fuck for the general public.

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Working for free is one thing, making good in another.

Edit: the central tension to that scene you referenced is that Faultline has made a point of never taking jobs in state, specifically to prevent "bringing work home", by use of the unwritten rules.
The money that she is asking for is, frankly a compensation for the act of removing their protection. Even more in light of having vulnerable members.
Here, she is taking jobs that violate that protection, and acting in her own backyard, in implied or actual violation of the rules, and demanding money from the injured party.

The saying " cruising for a brusing" comes to mind

As Faultline herself said:

Giving false info, even if it's 'merely' not admitting to potential lack of precision in intel provided, can very much, rightfully, be seen as 'setting her up'.

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"Setting up to fail", yes, "Setting up to be a cats paw in breaking the rules" is entirely another.
It is the latter that Faultline needs to make good for, and that making good is what charging for the privilege negates.

Again, please be accurate to the actual story:

The attack took place nowhere near Taylor's home. Nor the hideout of the Undersiders.

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OK... this I'll have to re-read.. it is possible I got wires crossed

Kidnapping and implied rape are near enough to explain Taylor's reaction, and still require a recovery of honor from Faultline.

 

[Anomalous Object]

You can go after Skidmark in his Adam Mustain identity, for things that Adam did, like steal a car, start a barfight, punching old ladies, you know, mundane things.

Taylor was attacked BECAUSE of what she did AS A CAPE. If she had bludgeoned their son to death with a lead pipe, then MAYBE the unwritten rules wouldn't apply, but she killed him with acid, out of her 'skin' which pretty much defines what she did as a cape action, even if she doesn't really have a cape identity at the moment. She's an outed cape, and that lowers the separation bar quite a bit. Besides, it's not like she's even had a chance at a cape life yet.

I also don't think Faultline would have voluntarily kidnapped a minor. That just doesn't seem like her style, especially since she took on care of Labrynthe because nobody else would. Faultline allowing a minor to come to harm just grates on ma brain a bit. And you absolutely know she had a clue about what McCormick wanted to do to Taylor.

forgot to mention - I'm done beating this particular dead horse, it's a pretty thin paste already...

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It's alive enough to kick you in the head with the fact that you're conflating Parahumans with Capes; just having a Parahuman ability doesn't make you a Cape.

Honestly, the parameters changed significantly once the target was revealed to be understood to hold a parahuman ability.
The fact that they still took this plan of action does make them a party to, if not the driving behind a breach of the unwritten rules.

If they had agreed to the contract without knowing that she was believed to be a parahuman, then ok, Faultlines crew could have back peddled hard and had it be "our client set us up".
It would have required Faultline to go after the client, but would have been within the rules.

Honestly, this is along the lines of what I was expecting, rather than "Ok, we broke the rules, but don't blame us, we were paid to do it".

Faultline is an adult and supposed professional. That kind of excuse does not fly.

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Being a Parahuman doesn't make you exempt from being targeted though; being a Cape makes you exempt from being targeted in your civilian identity.

No one is saying she did. But that Faultline choose to attack a known parahuman in her home. It is this that is against the rules.

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Just being a Cape in your off-time doesn't make you immune to Finding Out for Fucking Around done outside of your Cape Identity.

 

[Ashkari]

Civilians aren't protected by the unwritten rules.

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I mean, neither are capes, really. Seeing as they're basically Lisa's own headcanon, not actual canon.

 

[TypoNinja]

I kinda read her as smarter than this.

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Being lied to about the details of a job is something mercs have to worry about.

Her going off on the guy on the phone illustrates nicely that she thought she had a low risk, low level brute to grab.

However, it was still pretty dumb to break the unwritten rules, and to do so in her own hometown.

I don't know if Faultlines 'no jobs in the bay' rule is Fanon or not, but it *is* good sense. Don't shit where you eat.

If her mercs are known to not get involved locally, the locals will also leave them alone, and then they have a nice peaceful place to be between jobs, and a nightclub for legit income and to make the locals think nice things about the group who provides local entertainment.

If she's taking jobs locally, there's no reason for the locals to not show up at her club.

 

[MaimakteriAnn]

...
However, it was still pretty dumb to break the unwritten rules, and to do so in her own hometown.
...

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This bit.

Afaik the not working on brockton thing is canonical, from memory it comes up at Somer's Rock.

 

[Anor]

I don't know if Faultlines 'no jobs in the bay' rule is Fanon or not

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Afaik the not working on brockton thing is canonical, from memory it comes up at Somer's Rock.

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Very popular fanon.

"Just saying my group won't be getting directly involved in this without a reason," Faultline spoke, "We won't be going after the ABB unless they get in my way or someone pays my rates. It's the only workable policy when you're a cape for hire. And just so we're clear, if it's the ABB paying, my team's going to be on the other side of things."

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[Parlencel]

I am surprised Neuter didn't throw a bag of Twizzlers at Taylor to calm her down. (Makes Mouths Happy!)

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Alec needs to do this.

 

[Anomalous Object]

I mean, neither are capes, really. Seeing as they're basically Lisa's own headcanon, not actual canon.

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It's backed by people with cannons.

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Edit: hey doesn't Taylor's new Habitat and Utility Base come with blueprints for supercomputers and quantum computers? Wasn't she just thinking about getting a new computer?

 

[Optimal Robotics]

It's backed by people with cannons.

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Edit: hey doesn't Taylor's new Habitat and Utility Base come with blueprints for supercomputers and quantum computers? Wasn't she just thinking about getting a new computer?

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I forget where in the tech tree you get computers, but if she does get them I gotta rule that they're specialized for industrial uses, and locked down pretty tight by corporate DRM. Not insurmountable, but she'll have to invest some time into jailbreaking them, especially without any applicable knowledge motes.