How advanced would the race be to have a similar leg up on modern Earth, or if you want to be parallelistic like Turtledove, 2042 Earth during WW4? :wink:
Well, I have no idea what our current world will look like in 2042, but for modern Earth, just giving the Race access to orbital bombardment and advanced drone tech would do the job.

Anyway, sorry I haven't posted a chapter today. I have a midterm tomorrow, and I've been doing... studying? We'll call it that. Perhaps you may get some memes.
 
just giving the Race access to orbital bombardment and advanced drone tech would do the job.
Well now you've replaced "fighter planes shooting down race bombers" with "exosphere capable planes shootinh down race orbital satellite weaponry" remember this is a Turtledove fic, it has to play out like actual history or canon. Overall they'd be a more sci fi race, looking more like alien invasions in movies
 
Well now you've replaced "fighter planes shooting down race bombers" with "exosphere capable planes shootinh down race orbital satellite weaponry" remember this is a Turtledove fic, it has to play out like actual history or canon.
I beg your pardon? I have to do it in a certain way? This might a fic based on a Turtledove novel, but it's also based on a Niven/Pournelle story, and I think we can all agree this is pretty far removed from their kinds of stories, both from technical and stylistic standpoints.
 
I beg your pardon? I have to do it in a certain way? This might a fic based on a Turtledove novel, but it's also based on a Niven/Pournelle story, and I think we can all agree this is pretty far removed from their kinds of stories, both from technical and stylistic standpoints.
I had nowhere else to discuss the concept of an AU where the race are still ahead of modern humanity.
 
Well, I have no idea what our current world will look like in 2042, but for modern Earth, just giving the Race access to orbital bombardment and advanced drone tech would do the job.

Anyway, sorry I haven't posted a chapter today. I have a midterm tomorrow, and I've been doing... studying? We'll call it that. Perhaps you may get some memes.

Try the sci-fi universe of Earth 2140/50/60. Out of all the science fiction universes out there that is the one which predicted that an Elon Musk would exist at this point while also pointing out that there would be another cold war (and then predicted that second cold war going hot at around 2060. Let's hope it's wrong on that point.) started up in 21st century.

I had nowhere else to discuss the concept of an AU where the race are still ahead of modern humanity.

Make your own thread about it then in War and Peace. Maybe even in Weird History.
 
So basically a "Earth/Frodo get more time to develop tech/a lightsaber, thus the Conquest Fleet/Sauron get an equal tech advantage/the Death Star."

It is also called railroading a story.

I understand the story-aim of such an idea, but this just makes me wonder how the Race and their empire will develop going forward in comparison to the other 'Interstellar' nation-groups that we've seen already. I wonder if there is going to be any push towards more technological development, or what changes that they will try to implement in the face of such an upset to their worldview. That, and I'm wondering how both mankind and the Fithp are going to expand going forward, since I can't think of any nearby planets off the top of my head that either could really expand out towards as a viable 'colony' that wouldn't require massive expenditure.
 
Love the first story and I'm really excited to see where you take this one! You manage to make a very interesting timeline which doesn't always go the ways I expect it to but doesn't feel completely divorced from reality.
 
Love the first story and I'm really excited to see where you take this one! You manage to make a very interesting timeline which doesn't always go the ways I expect it to but doesn't feel completely divorced from reality.
Thanks for the compliment! Yeah, it's good to be a little unpredictable with a timeline, otherwise it defeats the point of writing it. On the other hand, if a timeline goes completely off the rails, it can't properly explore the scenario that warranted its creation.

Anyway, sorry it's taking a while to update. I've been following the SB drama and trying to plan a massive overhaul for Junction Point.
 
Question: Will this story just be covering the Colonization books, or this universe's equivalent to Homeward Bound as well?
 
Year 0: Chintithmamp-nang I
Two days after the arrival of the Colonization Fleet in orbit, the United Nations building in Geneva remains a tireless bustle, as diplomats, consultants, and heads of state crowd its halls. So deep is the throng, that it takes me three hours to get from the entrance of the building to my next interview, despite enjoying expedited clearance when compared to other journalists.

Nevertheless, I eventually find myself sitting alongside the new Herdmaster of the Fithp Nation. Despite still retaining the nickname of "The Other One", Chintithmamp-nang has nevertheless managed to win his second election, just three weeks ago. A large, youthful fi', he has deigned to eat his lunch at the special assembly hall, not wanting to leave the commotion unattended.


Q: Thank you for your time, Herdmaster. I hope I'm not interrupting your meal too badly.

A: It was going to be a stressful meal regardless. If I wanted quiet lunches without having to multitask, I would not have gone into politics.

He tosses an apple into his mouth, then points towards the center of the hall with a trunk.

You can see some of the others doing so as well. Most of us have scarcely left this hall since the ships arrived. We have been poring over the information that the Colonization Fleetmaster has given us, using that information to draft up plans of locking trunks with the issue, only to then throw them to the mud when we get new information. That, or when we disagree. It is usually the latter.

Q: I am surprised by the seeming lack of unity regarding the issue. Hasn't this been discussed for twenty years?

A: Governments change in twenty years. Feelings change in twenty years. What the leader of one government in one time may find agreeable, could very well be detestable to their successor. Wounds can heal, or they can fester, and we are only now truly learning which is which. I myself have been surprised by some of the reactions.

He points again, towards the American representatives.

The United States's herd has been receptive to the idea of allowing a handful of Race to settle here, despite the hideous wounds inflicted in the last mad days of the War. For the life of me, I cannot fathom their reasoning. They have had some of the highest rates of hate crimes against both Race and fithp, and now they are willing to allow them to come down, if only in small numbers.

Q: Do you have any theories as to why?

He looks about, then lowers his voice.

A: There have been... rumors... that a few nations have expressed a desire to have a Race herd on the planet, in order to better dissuade further conflict. It is unspeakably hard to start a conflict that could spell the extinction of your herd if you were to lose. It is harder still to make such a decision, knowing that even a victory would spell death for millions of your people.

I personally doubt that this is truly their reasoning. I believe that it is more of a goodwill gesture. Regardless, such motivations are obscure. At least dissenters have made their concerns clear.

Q: How so?

A: The United West African Republics have stated that they do not wish for the Race herd to settle on this planet. A surprise, considering that they have maintained generally friendly relations with the Race.

Their reasoning, at least, is a sound concern. They have expressed worries that the settlers will bring with them invasive species, which could bring severe ecological devastation to the planet. They have pointed to examples of European colonists bringing invasive species to Africa, such as triffid's impact on West African forests.

And these invasive species are ultimately of the same biosphere. One shudders to imagine what something from a completely different world could do.

Q: Weren't invasive species a concern during the establishment of the Fithp Nation?

A: Yes. It is for that reason that I support allowing Race colonists to settle here. I could understand the concern if it was all one hundred million of them coming here, but I doubt any more than five million will become permanent inhabitants of this world. If they could handle the ecological contamination of my own herd, then I am certain they can do the same for the Race colonists, especially now that we are even more capable of taking on the challenge.

It is not a question of ability, now. It is will.

Q: What proposals have come forward?

A: What you may expect. Some are calling for all colonists to stay asleep while we send them back, but the data we have received makes that an impossible dream. Many of them will need to be awakened, so their pods can be repaired. Such a large number cannot be sustained on the ships. They will need to come to the surface at some point, but we have yet to agree on how many, and for how long.

I do like the proposal put forward by Fleetlord Atvar.

He points again, and I can see the Fleetlord working on a data slate, surrounded by empty cups of coffee.

He has put forward the idea of patronage.

Q: Patronage?

A: The veteran troopmales can offer to make themselves the "patron" of a colonist. Said colonist will reside with the patron, and through them be introduced to this world. They can be taught the customs, and how to avoid dangers. I suppose it is comparable to the human idea of a... tour guide? A tour guide to Winterhome. Yes.

Q: How will patronage be determined? What nations have agreed to the idea?

He sputters as he swallows a banana without chewing.

A: I do not know. But, that is the reason why we are here, I suppose. If we knew the answers to all of these questions, this meeting would not be necessary. All I know is that, regardless of the consensus reached, the Fithp Nation will be a part of that decision.
 
I suppose America may also be considering the potential boon in immigrants of which a huge portion would have extremely useful skills especially as space colonisation, mining, travel etc. continues (plus politicians will have a hard time arguing they are going to bring crime into your neighbourhoods - secessionism, on the other hand, is a whole nother ball game).

Australia could also be a great place for settlers considering our ideal environment for the Race, a small population proportionate to our landmass (and 85% of our population is concentrated within 5km of the coast - away from the inland where the Race is most suited), no direct bad memories (as far as I understand Australia wasn't occupied or invaded or even bombarded during the war), although I'm not sure where the ADF could have been deployed or redeployed which may have caused causalities and thus anger against the Race. Of course, the political reality may make this impossible but the potential for highly skilled (in new, growing industries) individuals that would use uninhabitable land seems hard to pass up.

Of course, you (the author) probably have thought this through much more and I doubt they have an as loud, powerful, or distinct voice to warrant an interview at this moment. I'm certainly hyped for whether this story is going - it's certainly going to be interesting to see if Earth (because it's no longer us humans) can win the peace as well as the war.

1st Edit: Ecological concerns may impede Race agriculture and domestic animals as well but with the right technology and careful colony location that shouldn't be an insurmountable problem.

2nd Edit: I also wonder, did any of the Race vets from the war move to Australia for the advantages I suggested or was immigration much harder than living in the same location their service ended? Or is there something that I'm not seeing or understanding?

Edited for clarity.
 
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As it turns out, Worldfall was, in fact, a triple crossover with Day of the Triffids. Unless Chintithmamp-nang is using british slang for "large, overgrown or menacing-looking plants", which is oddly non-specific when talking about invasives.
Triffid is one of the names for Chromolaena odorata, a low-lying type of shrub that was introduced to Australia, Africa, and tropical parts of Asia. It is also known as devilweed, common floss flower, Siam weed, and Christmas bush. It's considered the most problematic invasive species in African rainforests, due to how it restricts tree regeneration.

I went with calling it triffid mainly as a sci-fi reference, though.
 
Australia wasn't occupied or invaded or even bombarded during the war
Which may be the in-thread meme I am most fond of. Even after I edit the original fic to fix some mistakes, I'm not changing the Australia situation.

Anyway, sorry for the gap between updates. Studying Chinese in China, after all. I'll try to be a bit better on that front.
 
Which may be the in-thread meme I am most fond of. Even after I edit the original fic to fix some mistakes, I'm not changing the Australia situation.

Anyway, sorry for the gap between updates. Studying Chinese in China, after all. I'll try to be a bit better on that front.

It's fine, your real-life should come first always. Honestly surprised that SV makes it past the Great Fire Wall (or you're using a VPN, but I don't want to put you in a potentially incriminating situation by asking, although that ship has likely already sailed if they check your SV account considering you have written about the Communist Party's overthrow - stay safe out there, and if you need to destroy everything you posted to let us know and we can back it all up, I'm deathly serious).

It makes sense, I suppose - Australia may be great for Race settlement but it's pretty far down the list of where to focus your resources to conquer in a globalised world, hell North Korea was a greater threat with its nuclear program (and unstable leadership, chemical perhaps biological stockpiles, willingness to sacrifice everyone for regime survival, etc.). And it's not as if the war was likely to drag on long enough that they would need to hold long term comfortable occupied territory, that would be even more overreached when the Race was already overstretched. Honestly, I'm surprised they bothered with the foothold in Africa (hopefully this doesn't come off as racist, because I mean this in strategic terms), the Middle East I can understand in order to cut off oil supply (although it strikes me that it would likely be easier to orbit bombard all oil wells worldwide to cripple supply) but it seems like needless keeping precious soldiers and equipment away from the most important frontlines (defeating the superpowers and nuclear states). They could mop up the less powerful nations after the strongest were defeated. But maybe I'm just not understanding Race physiology.

Btw, it may just be too long since I read the previous work, but what happened to Iran in the war?
 
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Finally, we got to see IRIAF Tomcats throw hands with Race devilcraft ala Independence Day
Bet 5 dollars there's an IRGC-sponsored war flick that 'dramatizes' the 'brave exploits' of the 'IRGC' pilots
 
Honestly, I'm surprised they bothered with the foothold in Africa (hopefully this doesn't come off as racist, because I mean this in strategic terms), the Middle East I can understand in order to cut off oil supply (although it strikes me that it would likely be easier to orbit bombard all oil wells worldwide to cripple supply)
They landed in Africa because they viewed the territory as A) Friendliest to Race needs in terms of climate, B) Resource rich, C) High in population that can be used to support the war effort, D) Relatively low on military power compared to the superpowers. That's an easy 15% of the human race you can conquer with minimal losses but tremendous gains.

And the Race didn't know that the world used petroleum as a fuel until the war began. They landed in the Middle East for similar reasons for Africa, and to put pressure on powers like India and China. Even if they knew about petroleum beforehand, they couldn't have hit refineries worldwide, nor could they have really put pressure on the world powers by occupying oil-rich reasons, due to them stockpiling petroleum for six goddamn years before the war started.
Btw, it may just be too long since I read the previous work, but what happened to Iran in the war?
Conquered and occupied for much of the war, though there were huge resistance movements. That's one of the things I wanted to clarify in edits.
 
New York Times Article - November 15th, 2041
THEY'RE COMING DOWN
US and Nineteen Other Nations Approve Temporary Asylum

GENEVA - After nearly a week of deliberations, proposals, and furious debate, a tentative asylum plan for the Colonization Fleet has been put ratified.

"In light of the enormous challenges before the Race colonists, both technical and otherwise, it is for the well-being of all involved that a portion of the Fleet be given the opportunity for temporary asylum on Earth," declared UN Secretary-General Rey Diaz, upon the ratification of the new directive. "For the pursuit of peace and prosperity of the peoples of Earth, all peoples, we must greet these newcomers with an outstretched hand, not a fist."

While the safety of the Race Colonization Fleet, which carries with it a hundred million settlers, was guaranteed with the signing of the World Armistice more than twenty years ago, this directive represents a new step forward. In the two decades since the war, the topic of allowing Race settlers on Earth has been a subject of intense debate, and only now has any solid agreement been made.

The primary reasoning behind granting temporary asylum seems to be one of technical matters. According to preliminary examinations by the IGDF, as well as statements from the commanding staff of the Colonization Fleet, the Race starships are not in suitable condition for a return trip to Home.

"If we were to send them back now, we would almost certainly be sending a hundred million people to their deaths," says Admiral Nguyen of the IGDF. "If we make them return to Home without giving them a chance to repair their life support and shielding, we would be complicit in the largest genocide in the history of the world. Any world."

As for why at least some settlers must be allowed asylum on Earth while the repairs are underway, Nguyen's answer is comprehensive.

"Those crypods have been running continuously for about fifteen years, once you consider time dilation. That's a long time for a complicated piece of machinery to be operating without being repaired. The fact that none broke down is a miracle in itself. If they want to return Home, those pods need to be given a considerable overhaul, and if anyone wants to fix those pods, they have to wake up the people inside. That means possibly millions of Race settlers being woken up in clumps while their pods are repaired, and the ships' life support systems just can't take that stress for the weeks it might take to repair the pods."

As for how the transfer of asylum-seekers will be processed, those matters fall not only on the receiving nations, but on the Race itself.

"Many colonists are, naturally, perturbed by the situation they have awoken to," said Fleetlord Atvar. Atvar, who has unofficially superseded the commanders of the Colonization Fleet, spoke shortly after Rey-Diaz's announcement. "Perhaps no other members of the Race have endured so great and so sudden a shock as these colonists. To ensure their well-being, I have decided that only volunteers will be allowed to live on Earth while the repairs are made."

The Fleetlord went on to describe the Patronage Policy, an emergency doctrine that was developed over the past three weeks. Its stipulations, as iterated by Atvar, are as follows:

All colonists who wish to volunteer for a stay on Earth must first read a hundred-page report, written by a multi-species committee, that details the events of the war and its aftermath, as well as brief histories of humanity and the fithp. This report, while officially known as "A Preliminary Introduction to the Current Race-Tosevite-Jarasevite Situation", has already earned the nickname "The Lizard's Guide to the Galaxy".

After a comprehensive exam to determine if the colonists have read and understood the report, the colonists will be allowed to read letters sent by the eponymous patrons- veteran troopmales of the Conquest Fleet, who shall describe their personalities and living situations to the colonists, as well as expound further upon the host nation.

Upon selecting a patron, the colonist in question shall write and send their own letter, detailing their own personality and concerns. Should the patron find them agreeable, he shall then accept them as a tenant in his home. The patron's responsibility includes directing the colonist to orientation seminars, guiding their research into the local nation, and to otherwise help them integrate into the community.

Already, it has been reported that nearly five hundred thousand patrons have signed up for the program, spanning the twenty nations who have agreed to accept colonists for temporary asylum. According to Fleetlord Atvar, the first arrivals will begin next week.

Nevertheless, the UN directive and the Patronage Policy have faced criticism, from members of all five species on Earth.

"Imagine if the Aztecs had been victorious over Pizarro," says Ambassador Ye Han of the People's Republic of China, whose nation did not agree to accept asylum-seekers. "They would have saved their people from slavery and genocide, a total end to their civilization. Why override that victory and allow themselves to be colonized when the civilian Europeans come, just because the murderers will otherwise die?"

"Personally, I think it's feeding azwaca to the befflem," claims former landcruiser commander Pistuluv. "Can you imagine those sick fucks who've spent twenty years terrorizing us, salivating at the thought of fresh meat? And even if they don't get directly hurt, I can't imagine those sheltered egg-chewers in the Colonization Fleet lasting more than two weeks before they all need to visit the psych wards."

Despite the concerns, support for the directive has been found across the world, from heads of states to everyday citizens. Already, a charity program, named "Housewarming", has been opened on the internet, with over ninety-thousand people donating trinkets, media, and other gifts for the incoming Race settlers.

"These people aren't soldiers," says Julian Cho, the founder of the charity. "They haven't done anything wrong to us, so we shouldn't do anything wrong to them. The war was twenty years ago, and it should stay in the fucking past. I don't wanna go back to that time. Do you?"

"It's a big universe out there," says former Herdmistress Mamta Joshi. "If we want to be the peaceful and prosperous people across the stars that we have dreamed of becoming, we need to act like it. And where does that start? Here."

Regardless of whose concerns of valid, it is clear that once the first settlers arrive, the worlds will never be the same.
 
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