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Terminus Quest: A CKII Mass Effect Quest

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Camry said:
I'm talking about exile, not murder. Exile in such a way that they cannot harm us during the Rachni crisis. Which is better than murder. Or occupation. Or sticking them in large prison camps
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You were talking about sticking them on a world that is inhospitable without any resources? and you expect them to survive a good number of them will proably die and you assume they will be fine with this forced relocation and I highly doubt they would agree to that.

Talk about wanting your own trail of tears
 
[X] Plan War
-[X] Reject her demands out of hand. She gets nothing.
--[X] And reiterate your demands, this time backing them with one of your points of leverage if necessary.
---[X] War (make your implicit threat explicit).

[X] Plan Withdrawal
-[X] Accept one of her demands [WITHDRAWAL], but refuse the other.
--[X] And offer nothing else. She gets one thing for one thing, not two.

[X] Plan Release
-[X] Accept one of her demands [RELEASE], but refuse the other.
--[X] And offer nothing else. She gets one thing for one thing, not two.

PoptartProdigy said:
As a reminder: approval voting.
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Approval Plan-voting or just simple approval voting? I worry that the later might get really messy.
Edit: Seems like this question is irrelevant.
 
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[X] Plan Release
-[X] Accept one of her demands [RELEASE], but refuse the other.
--[X] And offer nothing else. She gets one thing for one thing, not two.
Safety of our citizens is important first and foremost.
 
[X] Plan War
-[X] Reject her demands out of hand. She gets nothing.
--[X] And reiterate your demands, this time backing them with one of your points of leverage if necessary.
---[X] War (make your implicit threat explicit).
 
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[X] Plan War
-[X] Reject her demands out of hand. She gets nothing.
--[X] And reiterate your demands, this time backing them with one of your points of leverage if necessary.
---[X] War (make your implicit threat explicit).
 
[X] Plan Release
-[X] Accept one of her demands [RELEASE], but refuse the other.
--[X] And offer nothing else. She gets one thing for one thing, not two
 
kel said:
You were talking about sticking them on a world that is inhospitable without any resources? and you expect them to survive a good number of them will proably die and you assume they will be fine with this forced relocation and I highly doubt they would agree to that.

Talk about wanting your own trail of tears
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I have complete and utter faith in the Lystheni Guide to Paranoid Survival Training and have expected them to cover such an eventuality. So they will survive without technology and a space-based industry.

[X] Plan Release
-[X] Accept one of her demands [RELEASE], but refuse the other.
--[X] And offer nothing else. She gets one thing for one thing, not two
 
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Camry said:
I have complete and utter faith in the Lystheni Guide to Paranoid Survival Training and have expected them to cover such an eventuality. So they will survive without technology and a space-based industry.
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So they are like sub-sapient race, to be relocated into a planet sized reserve? :V I'm sure there is no way this can turn into a trail wreck.
 
MTB said:
Tell her the story of Lystheni contact from our point of view.
Then tell her that she and her children stopped being a nuisance and have become a liability in a time when we fight not to be eaten.
Then tell her she has to choose now to take her last chance and go back to negotiations in good faith. Otherwise you'll make sure the Lystheni won't be a liability any longer. And since we cannot spare the ressources for an occupation, that means total annihilation.
To put it bluntly, we are not talking about endangering some of her children. We are talking of ending all of them - she made it a "you or we situation", and we choose 'we'.

That should clarify what we are talking about.
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i agree with you. When faced with extinction, every alternative is preferable. We are fighting a war of survival against the Rachni and we cannot spare any forces to suppress the Lystheni. Let's make it known to her that since we cannot afford to be merciful, our only other option is to be utterly ruthless. Let's assure her that if she accepts, Virmire will defend the Lystheni like our own citizen but if they refuse we shall exterminate them.

Camry said:
That's cold dude. That's cold.

I'm talking about exile, not murder. Exile in such a way that they cannot harm us during the Rachni crisis. Which is better than murder. Or occupation. Or sticking them in large prison camps.
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We do no have the option of occupation because that would detract from the war of survival against the Rachni. Also, its not a "Rachni Crisis"- its a war of extermination. If Virmire loses, there's no occupation- Virmire will be eaten. There cannot be an exile for the Lystheni lest they come back with super-weapons and stab us in the back.

Its morally repugnant but Virmire cannot afford morals when trying to survive. Accept or die.

[X] Plan War
-[X] Reject her demands out of hand. She gets nothing.
--[X] And reiterate your demands, this time backing them with one of your points of leverage if necessary.
---[X] War (make your implicit threat explicit).
 
[X] Plan War
-[X] Reject her demands out of hand. She gets nothing.
--[X] And reiterate your demands, this time backing them with one of your points of leverage if necessary.
---[X] War (make your implicit threat explicit).
 
[X] Plan Release
-[X] Accept one of her demands [RELEASE], but refuse the other.
--[X] And offer nothing else. She gets one thing for one thing, not two.
 
VoidZero said:
So they are like sub-sapient race, to be relocated into a planet sized reserve? :V I'm sure there is no way this can turn into a trail wreck.
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The trail wreck has already begun. Whether we survive intact with all our military and industry is another question. Anyway, we must consider one thing. For this to happen, there must be war first. Let's say the war happened, what are our options so the Lystheni never threaten us in the near future?

1. Genocide. Open season on every Lystheni until they all cease to exist. Like I said before, that's cold.
2. Imprisonment. Throw all of them into large prison camps. That's a big NO as we would have to organize some of our time and manpower into prison management and maintenance which I think no one really wants.
3. Exile to another world. The cheapest and most merciful option. We dump them on some world without resources for a space-based industry and make sure they never leave it.
4. Exile to homeworld. Or we can just leave them on Taramnal. Significant risk because we don't know what they have prepared on Taramnal. But we can still wipe out all their space-based industry and make sure they never leave it.
 
Camry said:
I have complete and utter faith in the Lystheni Guide to Paranoid Survival Training and have expected them to cover such an eventuality. So they will survive without technology and a space-based industry.
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So what your saying is you hope they will be ready for being transferred to a planet which is hostile to them? How blind can you be they will fight us to the hilt if we try somthing like this and no civ at this point in its development would willingly give up their tech.

Anyway my vote.

[X] Plan Release
-[X] Accept one of her demands [RELEASE], but refuse the other.
--[X] And offer nothing else. She gets one thing for one thing, not two

PoptartProdigy said:
You will stand down your fleets and release my kidnapped children, or you are correct in that we have nothing to discuss, Prime Minister!"
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Anyway can't remember much about the salarian cluture but would it be unusual for her to reffer to here people as her 'children'?
 
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kel said:
So what your saying is you hope they will be ready for being transferred to a planet which is hostile to them? How blind can you be they will fight us to the hilt if we try somthing like this and no civ at this point in its development would willingly give up their tech.
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I have already listed four options with four outcomes if we went to war with the Lystheni in another post. Let me know what your option is if you have one. I might have missed out something.
 
[X] Plan War
-[X] Reject her demands out of hand. She gets nothing.
--[X] And reiterate your demands, this time backing them with one of your points of leverage if necessary.
---[X] War (make your implicit threat explicit).

[X] Plan Release
-[X] Accept one of her demands [RELEASE], but refuse the other.
--[X] And offer nothing else. She gets one thing for one thing, not two.
 
Forumgoers, I believe we should follow the steps of the British Empire's Abyssinian Campaign of 1868.

Call her bluff, make it clear that unless she releases her hostages, there will be war, and she would lose.
We can always negotiate with her subjects instead of her later on anyway. This system of government is not one I want functioning right on our rear while we fight tooth and nail to save both of our asses from the Rachni.

[X] Plan War
-[X] Reject her demands out of hand. She gets nothing.
--[X] And reiterate your demands, this time backing them with one of your points of leverage if necessary.
---[X] War (make your implicit threat explicit).
 
Camry said:
1. Genocide. Open season on every Lystheni until they all cease to exist. Like I said before, that's cold.
2. Imprisonment. Throw all of them into large prison camps. That's a big NO as we would have to organize some of our time and manpower into prison management and maintenance which I think no one really wants.
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I agree the two above options are a big fat NO and should not even be contemplated.

Camry said:
3. Exile to another world. The cheapest and most merciful option. We dump them on some world without resources for a space-based industry and make sure they never leave it.
4. Exile to homeworld. Or we can just leave them on Taramnal. Significant risk because we don't know what they have prepared on Taramnal. But we can still wipe out all their space-based industry and make sure they never leave it.
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Option 3 I disagree with on principle because that assumes they won't try and developed a space based industry and even if we leave observation platforms in orbit whose to say they won't try and come up with a way to take or destroy them, we are literally doing a forced relocations and it would take time and resources to find a world suitable for them, set up at least the rudimentary marks of civilisation and then move them to that world. I don't think we'd have enough marines or soilders to guard them and enough hulls to do this without breaking our economy in the process. I also oppose it on both moral and historical grounds.

Option 4 similar objections to option 3 but with out most of the logistics and economic problems expect for the cost of maintaining a picket and sensor net.

Also have you considered how our own people or the council may react? I know the council isn't the power it will become but expect them to react harshly to any of these options.
 
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[X] Plan War
-[X] Reject her demands out of hand. She gets nothing.
--[X] And reiterate your demands, this time backing them with one of your points of leverage if necessary.
---[X] War (make your implicit threat explicit).

[X] Plan Release
-[X] Accept one of her demands [RELEASE], but refuse the other.
--[X] And offer nothing else. She gets one thing for one thing, not two.
 
[X] Plan War
-[X] Reject her demands out of hand. She gets nothing.
--[X] And reiterate your demands, this time backing them with one of your points of leverage if necessary.
---[X] War (make your implicit threat explicit).

We will not negotiate in good faith with untrustworthy, hostage-taking terrorists. Moreover, concessions at this initial stage will severely undermine our negotiating position (making further negotiations unproductive). Last chance for the crazy Salarians.
 
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kel said:
Also have you considered how our own people or the council may react? I know the council isn't the power it will become but expect them to react harshly to any of these options.
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Aren't the Lystheni a renegade faction of the Salarian Union? Unless we go full genocide and ethnic cleansing, I really can't see them being all that outraged. Especially if we can give ample proof those actions were justified.
 
[X] Plan Regrettable Consequences
-[X] Reject her demands out of hand. She gets nothing.
--[x] Share with her our point of view of the history of Lystheni-Virmire interaction.
--[x] Tell her we are in a literal war of exinction with the Rachni, which requires our full attention. The Lystheni actions went from 'nuisance' to liability.
--[x] We can not spare the ressources to make sure this liability doesn't stab us in the back. We are now at a decision point where it's literally 'you' or 'we'. And our history of Lystheni interaction very much shows that occupation or containment won't work. That leaves extermination.
--[X] And reiterate your demands, this time backing them with one of your points of leverage if necessary.
---[X] War (make your implicit threat explicit).

// Basically, "we can no longer afford your clandestine shit."
Edit: For clarification, I added the explanation to make our line of reasoning plainly clear. That gives the dalatrass a chance to address these concerns.
 
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[X] Plan War
-[X] Reject her demands out of hand. She gets nothing.
--[X] And reiterate your demands, this time backing them with one of your points of leverage if necessary.
---[X] War (make your implicit threat explicit).
 
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