Remove ads

Terminus Quest: A CKII Mass Effect Quest

Voting is open
Reader mode
uju32 said:
You're ignoring explicit WoG.
I will again suggest rereading the GM's comments on this.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

No, I'm saying that just like the Lystheni won't entertain the notion of complete surrender, we shouldn't even entertain this binding agreement to protect people who we know nothing about and who have stepped beyond the norm to fuck with us at every step from the most powerful polity in the galaxy.

West Germany. South Korea. Most of Western Europe.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Those countries were at immediate threat of invasion by the Soviet Union and North Korea. How much of their decision-making is affected by some kind of nonbinding obligation to the United States is dubious at best. There's arguments to be made in international relations theory that the giving country is actually more affected than the receiving country, because of sunk-cost fallacies and fear of backtracking on relations.
 
Last edited:
rdc30 said:
No, I'm saying that just like the Lystheni won't entertain the notion of complete surrender, we shouldn't even entertain this binding agreement to protect people who we know nothing about and who have stepped beyond the norm to fuck with us at every step from the most powerful polity in the galaxy.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
And I disagree.
You don't know what the lystheni red lines are, or what their internal processes are; they have been too opaque for that.
And all our current option says is that we signal we might consider any of the options under certain conditions. We STILL have to vote Yay or Nay.

The lystheni can choose to behave however they like.
We are not obliged to follow their example unless and until it suits us and even then only at a place and time of our choosing.
We are stuck with them, and genocide is not on the table. We either make something of them or twenty years down the line it will come back to bite us.

And we're already de facto protecting them from the Citadel by dint of the fact we're sitting on the only relays in and out of the cluster; we certainly would have our national security establishment more than a little worried if the Citadel moved a military force into Sentry Omega to take them in hand. Especially with the vocal independence lobby both in-character and out of character.

rdc30 said:
Those countries were at immediate threat of invasion by the Soviet Union and North Korea. How much of their decision-making is affected by some kind of nonbinding obligation to the United States is dubious at best. There's arguments to be made in international relations theory that the giving country is actually more affected than the receiving country, because of sunk-cost fallacies and fear of backtracking on relations.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
And the lystheni are at immediate threat of invasion by the Rachni and (they think) the Citadel.
Not wanting to take a historical derail, but I disagree with your characterization of the historical cases.
 
Okay, in the future, can we require new plan names for significant changes like this? Your plan basically went from one of the most aggressive to moderate after it had already gained a lot of steam on the original premise.
Adhoc vote count started by rdc30 on Feb 24, 2018 at 6:14 PM, finished with 11203 posts and 45 votes.
  • [X] Plan Damocles
    -[x] Demands
    --[X] The immediate release of Virmirean merchants from Lystheni territory (civilians released as a precondition of continued negotiations).
    --[x] Full disclosure of Lystheni history and society, including their origins and the nature of their animosity towards the Citadel (Lystheni forced to stop being cagey).
    --[x] The resumption of trade, this time on Virmirean terms (resumed trade relations with an open market, economically subordinating the Lystheni to you and proving far more profitable than the previous, protectionist agreement).
    --[x] Full Lystheni commitment to the Rachni War effort (all Lystheni military assets placed under your command).
    --[x] Full disclosure and surrender of the stations in Sikel in violation of the Virmire-Lystheni Border Treaty (get the artifacts and the stations on which they sit, along with experimental records).
    --[X] A network of your best observation posts throughout Lystheni space (become Big Sister).
    -[x] Leverage
    --[x] A continued complete trade embargo (what it says).
    --[X] The dissolution of the Virmire-Lystheni Border Treaty and a complete blockade of Lystheni space (claim the LBZ and put defense platforms in every system to make sure that nothing passes).
    --[X] War (make your implicit threat explicit).
    -[x] Concessions
    --[X] Economic support of Lystheni interests, working towards a common understanding and cooperation (basically civilian Marshall Plan by Virmirean companies).
    --[x] A commitment to maintaining the sovereignty of the Lystheni state as a priority of Virmirean foreign policy (guarantee the Lystheni's independence).
    --[x] A general withdrawal of military forces (stand down the 3rd RWF).
    --[X] The release of captured Lystheni intelligence operatives in Virmirean space (give back their spies).
    [x] Plan Hammer Time
    -[x] Demands
    --[X] The immediate release of Virmirean merchants from Lystheni territory (civilians released as a precondition of continued negotiations).
    --[x] Full disclosure of Lystheni history and society, including their origins and the nature of their animosity towards the Citadel (Lystheni forced to stop being cagey).
    --[x] The resumption of trade, this time on Virmirean terms (resumed trade relations with an open market, economically subordinating the Lystheni to you and proving far more profitable than the previous, protectionist agreement).
    --[x] Full Lystheni commitment to the Rachni War effort (all Lystheni military assets placed under your command).
    --[x] Full disclosure and surrender of the stations in Sikel in violation of the Virmire-Lystheni Border Treaty (get the artifacts and the stations on which they sit, along with experimental records).
    --[X] A Lystheni-funded network of your best observation posts throughout Lystheni space (become Big Sister on the Lystheni's dime).
    -[x] Leverage
    --[x] A continued complete trade embargo (what it says).
    --[X] The dissolution of the Virmire-Lystheni Border Treaty and a complete blockade of Lystheni space (claim the LBZ and put defense platforms in every system to make sure that nothing passes).
    --[X] A commitment to allowing the Citadel unfettered passage through Virmirean space in dealing with the Lystheni however they please (promise to let the Citadel do what they like to the Lystheni when the time comes).
    --[X] War (make your implicit threat explicit).
    -[x] Concessions
    --[x] Allow Lystheni citizens not involved in espionage operations to return to Lystheni space.
    --[x] Allow Lystheni to retain claimed systems.
    --[x] Return Lystheni equipment in disassembled and sanitized manner so they may be rebuilt.
    [X] Plan Aggressive Negotiations
    -[x] Demands
    --[X] The immediate release of Virmirean merchants from Lystheni territory (civilians released as a precondition of continued negotiations).
    --[x] Full disclosure of Lystheni history and society, including their origins and the nature of their animosity towards the Citadel (Lystheni forced to stop being cagey).
    --[x] Full disclosure and surrender of the stations in Sikel in violation of the Virmire-Lystheni Border Treaty (get the artifacts and the stations on which they sit, along with experimental records).
    --[X] A Lystheni-funded network of your best observation posts throughout Lystheni space (become Big Sister on the Lystheni's dime).
    -[x] Leverage
    --[X] The dissolution of the Virmire-Lystheni Border Treaty and a complete blockade of Lystheni space (claim the LBZ and put defense platforms in every system to make sure that nothing passes).
    --[X] A commitment to allowing the Citadel unfettered passage through Virmirean space in dealing with the Lystheni however they please (promise to let the Citadel do what they like to the Lystheni when the time comes).
    --[X] War (make your implicit threat explicit).
    -[x] Concessions
    --[x] The resumption of trade on the Lystheni's terms (give them their lifeline back).
    --[x] A general withdrawal of military forces (stand down the 3rd RWF).
    --[X] The release of captured Lystheni intelligence operatives in Virmirean space (give back their spies).
    [X] Plan Soft Touch
    -[x] Demands
    --[x] Full disclosure of Lystheni history and society, including their origins and the nature of their animosity towards the Citadel (Lystheni forced to stop being cagey).
    --[x] Full Lystheni commitment to the Rachni War effort (all Lystheni military assets placed under your command).
    --[X] Write-In: A mutually-binding agreement to dimplomatically declare and allow cooperative and unrestricted access to all archaeological finds, be they Prothean or other, from this point forward and retroactively, to allow for joint examination and furthering of scientific research.
    -[x] Leverage
    --[x] A continued complete trade embargo (what it says).
    --[X] The dissolution of the Virmire-Lystheni Border Treaty and a complete blockade of Lystheni space (claim the LBZ and put defense platforms in every system to make sure that nothing passes).
    --[x] Allowing the resumption of trade, but no longer making terms a concern of the Virmirean government (cut your trading companies off the leash and stop telling them to play nice with the Lystheni's terms).
    -[x] Concessions
    --[x] The resumption of trade on the Lystheni's terms (give them their lifeline back).
    --[x] A commitment to maintaining the sovereignty of the Lystheni state as a priority of Virmirean foreign policy (guarantee the Lystheni's independence).
    --[X] Permit the relocation of Lystheni installations in violation of the Virmire-Lystheni Border Treaty (let them have the artifacts and stations).
    --[x] A general withdrawal of military forces (stand down the 3rd RWF).
    --[X] The release of captured Lystheni intelligence operatives in Virmirean space (give back their spies).
    --[X] Write-In: An agreement to avoid military escalation on your part towards the Lystheni until and unless the Rachni threat is dealt with, provided the Lystheni promise the same; the agreement to be renewed upon final defeat of the Rachni.
    [X] [Plan] Core Interest
    -[x] Demands
    --[X] The immediate release of Virmirean merchants from Lystheni territory (civilians released as a precondition of continued negotiations).
    --[x] Full disclosure of Lystheni history and society, including their origins and the nature of their animosity towards the Citadel (Lystheni forced to stop being cagey).
    --[x] Full disclosure and surrender of the stations in Sikel in violation of the Virmire-Lystheni Border Treaty (get the artifacts and the stations on which they sit, along with experimental records).
    -[x] Leverage
    --[x] A continued complete trade embargo (what it says).
    --[x] Allowing the resumption of trade, but no longer making terms a concern of the Virmirean government (cut your trading companies off the leash and stop telling them to play nice with the Lystheni's terms).
    --[X] War (make your implicit threat explicit).
    -[x] Concessions
    --[x] The resumption of trade on the Lystheni's terms (give them their lifeline back).
    --[X] Economic support of Lystheni interests, working towards a common understanding and cooperation (pay them).
    --[x] A general withdrawal of military forces (stand down the 3rd RWF).
    --[X] The release of captured Lystheni intelligence operatives in Virmirean space (give back their spies).
    [X] Plan Dont be stoopid, stupid!
    -[x] Demands
    --[x] Full disclosure of Lystheni history and society, including their origins and the nature of their animosity towards the Citadel (Lystheni forced to stop being cagey).
    --[x] Full Lystheni commitment to the Rachni War effort (all Lystheni military assets placed under your command).
    --[x] Full disclosure and surrender of the stations in Sikel in violation of the Virmire-Lystheni Border Treaty (get the artifacts and the stations on which they sit, along with experimental records).
    -[x] Leverage
    --[x] A continued complete trade embargo (what it says).
    --[x] Allowing the resumption of trade, but no longer making terms a concern of the Virmirean government (cut your trading companies off the leash and stop telling them to play nice with the Lystheni's terms).
    -[x] Concessions
    --[x] The resumption of trade on the Lystheni's terms (give them their lifeline back).
    --[x] A commitment to maintaining the sovereignty of the Lystheni state as a priority of Virmirean foreign policy (guarantee the Lystheni's independence).
    --[x] A general withdrawal of military forces (stand down the 3rd RWF).
    [X] Plan Strong Pimp Hand
    -[x] Demands
    --[X] The immediate release of Virmirean merchants from Lystheni territory (civilians released as a precondition of continued negotiations).
    --[x] Full disclosure of Lystheni history and society, including their origins and the nature of their animosity towards the Citadel (Lystheni forced to stop being cagey).
    --[x] The resumption of trade, this time on Virmirean terms (resumed trade relations with an open market, economically subordinating the Lystheni to you and proving far more profitable than the previous, protectionist agreement).
    --[x] Full disclosure and surrender of the stations in Sikel in violation of the Virmire-Lystheni Border Treaty (get the artifacts and the stations on which they sit, along with experimental records).
    -[x] Leverage
    --[x] A continued complete trade embargo (what it says).
    --[X] The dissolution of the Virmire-Lystheni Border Treaty and a complete blockade of Lystheni space (claim the LBZ and put defense platforms in every system to make sure that nothing passes).
    --[X] War (make your implicit threat explicit).
    -[x] Concessions
    --[X] Economic support of Lystheni interests, working towards a common understanding and cooperation (pay them).
    --[x] A commitment to maintaining the sovereignty of the Lystheni state as a priority of Virmirean foreign policy (guarantee the Lystheni's independence).
    --[X] The release of captured Lystheni intelligence operatives in Virmirean space (give back their spies).
    [X] Plan: Dreadnought diplomacy
    -[x] Demands
    --[X] The immediate release of Virmirean merchants from Lystheni territory (civilians released as a precondition of continued negotiations).
    --[x] Full disclosure of Lystheni history and society, including their origins and the nature of their animosity towards the Citadel (Lystheni forced to stop being cagey).
    --[x] Full Lystheni commitment to the Rachni War effort (all Lystheni military assets placed under your command).
    --[x] Full disclosure and surrender of the stations in Sikel in violation of the Virmire-Lystheni Border Treaty (get the artifacts and the stations on which they sit, along with experimental records).
    -[x] Leverage
    --[X] The dissolution of the Virmire-Lystheni Border Treaty and a complete blockade of Lystheni space (claim the LBZ and put defense platforms in every system to make sure that nothing passes).
    --[X] Taking the Dalatrass as a hostage.
    --[X] War (make your implicit threat explicit).
    -[x] Concessions
    --[x] A commitment to maintaining the sovereignty of the Lystheni state as a priority of Virmirean foreign policy (guarantee the Lystheni's independence).
    [x] Plan: Initial round
    -[x] Demand 1
    --[X] The immediate release of Virmirean merchants from Lystheni territory (civilians released as a precondition of continued negotiations).
    ---[x] Leverage: War
    ---[x] Concession: A general withdrawal of military forces (stand down the 3rd RWF), half imidiatly on acceptance, the other half after the merchentsare returned.
    ---[x] Concession: The release of captured Lystheni intelligence operatives in Virmirean space (give back their spies), swaped at the same time the merchants are.
    -[x] Demand 2
    --[x] Full disclosure of Lystheni history and society, including their origins and the nature of their animosity towards the Citadel (Lystheni forced to stop being cagey). remind them that we will eventually get it from the Citadel when contact is restablished with them anyways.
    --[x] Leverage: Isolation and containment of Lystheni, containing the following
    ---[x] A commitment to allowing the Citadel unfettered passage through Virmirean space in dealing with the Lystheni however they please (promise to let the Citadel do what they like to the Lystheni when the time comes).
    ---[x] A continued complete trade embargo (what it says).
    ---[x] The dissolution of the Virmire-Lystheni Border Treaty and a complete blockade of Lystheni space (claim the LBZ and put defense platforms in every system to make sure that nothing passes).
    --[x] concession: None, other then Further negotiations. Though the end to the trade embargo is highly likely assuming there is no glaring problem with their history and society.
    [x] Plan Hammer Time
    -[x] Demands
    --[X] The immediate release of Virmirean merchants from Lystheni territory (civilians released as a precondition of continued negotiations).
    --[x] Full disclosure of Lystheni history and society, including their origins and the nature of their animosity towards the Citadel (Lystheni forced to stop being cagey).
    --[x] The resumption of trade, this time on Virmirean terms (resumed trade relations with an open market, economically subordinating the Lystheni to you and proving far more profitable than the previous, protectionist agreement).
    --[x] Full Lystheni commitment to the Rachni War effort (all Lystheni military assets placed under your command).
    --[x] Full disclosure and surrender of the stations in Sikel in violation of the Virmire-Lystheni Border Treaty (get the artifacts and the stations on which they sit, along with experimental records).
    --[X] A Lystheni-funded network of your best observation posts throughout Lystheni space (become Big Sister on the Lystheni's dime).
    -[x] Leverage
    --[x] A continued complete trade embargo (what it says).
    --[X] The dissolution of the Virmire-Lystheni Border Treaty and a complete blockade of Lystheni space (claim the LBZ and put defense platforms in every system to make sure that nothing passes).
    --[X] A commitment to allowing the Citadel unfettered passage through Virmirean space in dealing with the Lystheni however they please (promise to let the Citadel do what they like to the Lystheni when the time comes).
    --[X] War (make your implicit threat explicit).
    --[x] Full disclosure of Lystheni history and society, including their origins and the nature of their animosity towards the Citadel (Lystheni forced to stop being cagey).
    --[x] Full disclosure and surrender of the stations in Sikel in violation of the Virmire-Lystheni Border Treaty (get the artifacts and the stations on which they sit, along with experimental records).
    [X] Plan Damocles
    -[X]Demands
    --[X] The immediate release of Virmirean merchants from Lystheni territory (civilians released as a precondition of continued negotiations).
    --[x] Full disclosure of Lystheni history and society, including their origins and the nature of their animosity towards the Citadel (Lystheni forced to stop being cagey).
    --[x] The resumption of trade, this time on Virmirean terms (resumed trade relations with an open market, economically subordinating the Lystheni to you and proving far more profitable than the previous, protectionist agreement).
    --[x] Full Lystheni commitment to the Rachni War effort (all Lystheni military assets placed under your command).
    --[x] Full disclosure and surrender of the stations in Sikel in violation of the Virmire-Lystheni Border Treaty (get the artifacts and the stations on which they sit, along with experimental records).
    --[X] A network of your best observation posts throughout Lystheni space (become Big Sister).
    -[x] Leverage
    --[x] A continued complete trade embargo (what it says).
    --[X] The dissolution of the Virmire-Lystheni Border Treaty and a complete blockade of Lystheni space (claim the LBZ and put defense platforms in every system to make sure that nothing passes).
    --[X] War (make your implicit threat explicit).
    -[X] Concessions
    --[X] Economic support of Lystheni interests, working towards a common understanding and cooperation (pay them).
    --[x] A commitment to maintaining the sovereignty of the Lystheni state as a priority of Virmirean foreign policy (guarantee the Lystheni's independence).
    --[x] A general withdrawal of military forces (stand down the 3rd RWF).
    --[X] The release of captured Lystheni intelligence operatives in Virmirean space (give back their spies).
    [X] Plan Damocles
    -[x] Demands
    --[X] The immediate release of Virmirean merchants from Lystheni territory (civilians released as a precondition of continued negotiations).
    --[x] Full disclosure of Lystheni history and society, including their origins and the nature of their animosity towards the Citadel (Lystheni forced to stop being cagey).
    --[x] The resumption of trade, this time on Virmirean terms (resumed trade relations with an open market, economically subordinating the Lystheni to you and proving far more profitable than the previous, protectionist agreement).
    --[x] Full Lystheni commitment to the Rachni War effort (all Lystheni military assets placed under your command).
    --[x] Full disclosure and surrender of the stations in Sikel in violation of the Virmire-Lystheni Border Treaty (get the artifacts and the stations on which they sit, along with experimental records).
    --[X] A Lystheni-funded network of your best observation posts throughout Lystheni space (become Big Sister on the Lystheni's dime).
    -[x] Leverage
    --[x] A continued complete trade embargo (what it says).
    --[X] The dissolution of the Virmire-Lystheni Border Treaty and a complete blockade of Lystheni space (claim the LBZ and put defense platforms in every system to make sure that nothing passes).
    --[X] War (make your implicit threat explicit).
    -[x] Concessions
    --[x] A general withdrawal of military forces (stand down the 3rd RWF).
    --[X] The release of captured Lystheni intelligence operatives in Virmirean space (give back their spies).
    [X] Plan Damocles
    -[X]Demands
    --[X] The immediate release of Virmirean merchants from Lystheni territory (civilians released as a precondition of continued negotiations).
    --[x] Full disclosure of Lystheni history and society, including their origins and the nature of their animosity towards the Citadel (Lystheni forced to stop being cagey).
    --[x] The resumption of trade, this time on Virmirean terms (resumed trade relations with an open market, economically subordinating the Lystheni to you and proving far more profitable than the previous, protectionist agreement).
    --[x] Full Lystheni commitment to the Rachni War effort (all Lystheni military assets placed under your command).
    --[x] Full disclosure and surrender of the stations in Sikel in violation of the Virmire-Lystheni Border Treaty (get the artifacts and the stations on which they sit, along with experimental records).
    --[X] A network of your best observation posts throughout Lystheni space (become Big Sister).
    -[x] Leverage
    --[x] A continued complete trade embargo (what it says).
    --[X] The dissolution of the Virmire-Lystheni Border Treaty and a complete blockade of Lystheni space (claim the LBZ and put defense platforms in every system to make sure that nothing passes).
    --[X] War (make your implicit threat explicit).
    -[X] Concessions
    --[X] Economic support of Lystheni interests, working towards a common understanding and cooperation (basically civilian Marshall Plan by Virmirean companies).
    --[X] A commitment to maintaining the sovereignty of the Lystheni state as a priority of Virmirean foreign policy (guarantee the Lystheni's independence).
    --[x] A general withdrawal of military forces (stand down the 3rd RWF).
    --[X] The release of captured Lystheni intelligence operatives in Virmirean space (give back their spies).
    [X] Don't bother with talking. Just kill the Dalatrass. You know you want it.
Click to expand...
 
rdc30 said:
Okay, in the future, can we require new plan names for significant changes like this? Your plan basically went from one of the most aggressive to moderate after it had already gained a lot of steam on the original premise.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
*throws hands in the air*
Eight of the eighteen votes Damocles received came AFTER the changes.
And I noted the changes, and why.

@Miner249er, @LunarTinker, @Dwergar, @CrimsonKnight, @kel, @pbluekan, @NotAlwaysFanfic, @Aigloss, @gutza1, @KnightDisciple, @StormLord, @Crazy7s1, @Spacegnom, @Enjou, @Weird Guy, @Chronic, @ALanos, @Camry, @Gamefreak1ed, @Angelform, @Chacmon

Will you gentlepeople please take a look at the current Damocles plan and be sure you have no problems with it?
Adhoc vote count started by uju32 on Feb 25, 2018 at 7:44 AM, finished with 11224 posts and 48 votes.
  • [X] Plan Damocles
    -[x] Demands
    --[X] The immediate release of Virmirean merchants from Lystheni territory (civilians released as a precondition of continued negotiations).
    --[x] Full disclosure of Lystheni history and society, including their origins and the nature of their animosity towards the Citadel (Lystheni forced to stop being cagey).
    --[x] The resumption of trade, this time on Virmirean terms (resumed trade relations with an open market, economically subordinating the Lystheni to you and proving far more profitable than the previous, protectionist agreement).
    --[x] Full Lystheni commitment to the Rachni War effort (all Lystheni military assets placed under your command).
    --[x] Full disclosure and surrender of the stations in Sikel in violation of the Virmire-Lystheni Border Treaty (get the artifacts and the stations on which they sit, along with experimental records).
    --[X] A network of your best observation posts throughout Lystheni space (become Big Sister).
    -[x] Leverage
    --[x] A continued complete trade embargo (what it says).
    --[X] The dissolution of the Virmire-Lystheni Border Treaty and a complete blockade of Lystheni space (claim the LBZ and put defense platforms in every system to make sure that nothing passes).
    --[X] War (make your implicit threat explicit).
    -[x] Concessions
    --[X] Economic support of Lystheni interests, working towards a common understanding and cooperation (basically civilian Marshall Plan by Virmirean companies).
    --[x] A commitment to maintaining the sovereignty of the Lystheni state as a priority of Virmirean foreign policy (guarantee the Lystheni's independence).
    --[x] A general withdrawal of military forces (stand down the 3rd RWF).
    --[X] The release of captured Lystheni intelligence operatives in Virmirean space (give back their spies).
    [x] Plan Hammer Time
    -[x] Demands
    --[X] The immediate release of Virmirean merchants from Lystheni territory (civilians released as a precondition of continued negotiations).
    --[x] Full disclosure of Lystheni history and society, including their origins and the nature of their animosity towards the Citadel (Lystheni forced to stop being cagey).
    --[x] The resumption of trade, this time on Virmirean terms (resumed trade relations with an open market, economically subordinating the Lystheni to you and proving far more profitable than the previous, protectionist agreement).
    --[x] Full Lystheni commitment to the Rachni War effort (all Lystheni military assets placed under your command).
    --[x] Full disclosure and surrender of the stations in Sikel in violation of the Virmire-Lystheni Border Treaty (get the artifacts and the stations on which they sit, along with experimental records).
    --[X] A Lystheni-funded network of your best observation posts throughout Lystheni space (become Big Sister on the Lystheni's dime).
    -[x] Leverage
    --[x] A continued complete trade embargo (what it says).
    --[X] The dissolution of the Virmire-Lystheni Border Treaty and a complete blockade of Lystheni space (claim the LBZ and put defense platforms in every system to make sure that nothing passes).
    --[X] A commitment to allowing the Citadel unfettered passage through Virmirean space in dealing with the Lystheni however they please (promise to let the Citadel do what they like to the Lystheni when the time comes).
    --[X] War (make your implicit threat explicit).
    -[x] Concessions
    --[x] Allow Lystheni citizens not involved in espionage operations to return to Lystheni space.
    --[x] Allow Lystheni to retain claimed systems.
    --[x] Return Lystheni equipment in disassembled and sanitized manner so they may be rebuilt.
    [X] Plan Aggressive Negotiations
    -[x] Demands
    --[X] The immediate release of Virmirean merchants from Lystheni territory (civilians released as a precondition of continued negotiations).
    --[x] Full disclosure of Lystheni history and society, including their origins and the nature of their animosity towards the Citadel (Lystheni forced to stop being cagey).
    --[x] Full disclosure and surrender of the stations in Sikel in violation of the Virmire-Lystheni Border Treaty (get the artifacts and the stations on which they sit, along with experimental records).
    --[X] A Lystheni-funded network of your best observation posts throughout Lystheni space (become Big Sister on the Lystheni's dime).
    -[x] Leverage
    --[X] The dissolution of the Virmire-Lystheni Border Treaty and a complete blockade of Lystheni space (claim the LBZ and put defense platforms in every system to make sure that nothing passes).
    --[X] A commitment to allowing the Citadel unfettered passage through Virmirean space in dealing with the Lystheni however they please (promise to let the Citadel do what they like to the Lystheni when the time comes).
    --[X] War (make your implicit threat explicit).
    -[x] Concessions
    --[x] The resumption of trade on the Lystheni's terms (give them their lifeline back).
    --[x] A general withdrawal of military forces (stand down the 3rd RWF).
    --[X] The release of captured Lystheni intelligence operatives in Virmirean space (give back their spies).
    [X] Plan Soft Touch
    -[x] Demands
    --[x] Full disclosure of Lystheni history and society, including their origins and the nature of their animosity towards the Citadel (Lystheni forced to stop being cagey).
    --[x] Full Lystheni commitment to the Rachni War effort (all Lystheni military assets placed under your command).
    --[X] Write-In: A mutually-binding agreement to dimplomatically declare and allow cooperative and unrestricted access to all archaeological finds, be they Prothean or other, from this point forward and retroactively, to allow for joint examination and furthering of scientific research.
    -[x] Leverage
    --[x] A continued complete trade embargo (what it says).
    --[X] The dissolution of the Virmire-Lystheni Border Treaty and a complete blockade of Lystheni space (claim the LBZ and put defense platforms in every system to make sure that nothing passes).
    --[x] Allowing the resumption of trade, but no longer making terms a concern of the Virmirean government (cut your trading companies off the leash and stop telling them to play nice with the Lystheni's terms).
    -[x] Concessions
    --[x] The resumption of trade on the Lystheni's terms (give them their lifeline back).
    --[x] A commitment to maintaining the sovereignty of the Lystheni state as a priority of Virmirean foreign policy (guarantee the Lystheni's independence).
    --[X] Permit the relocation of Lystheni installations in violation of the Virmire-Lystheni Border Treaty (let them have the artifacts and stations).
    --[x] A general withdrawal of military forces (stand down the 3rd RWF).
    --[X] The release of captured Lystheni intelligence operatives in Virmirean space (give back their spies).
    --[X] Write-In: An agreement to avoid military escalation on your part towards the Lystheni until and unless the Rachni threat is dealt with, provided the Lystheni promise the same; the agreement to be renewed upon final defeat of the Rachni.
    [X] [Plan] Core Interest
    -[x] Demands
    --[X] The immediate release of Virmirean merchants from Lystheni territory (civilians released as a precondition of continued negotiations).
    --[x] Full disclosure of Lystheni history and society, including their origins and the nature of their animosity towards the Citadel (Lystheni forced to stop being cagey).
    --[x] Full disclosure and surrender of the stations in Sikel in violation of the Virmire-Lystheni Border Treaty (get the artifacts and the stations on which they sit, along with experimental records).
    -[x] Leverage
    --[x] A continued complete trade embargo (what it says).
    --[x] Allowing the resumption of trade, but no longer making terms a concern of the Virmirean government (cut your trading companies off the leash and stop telling them to play nice with the Lystheni's terms).
    --[X] War (make your implicit threat explicit).
    -[x] Concessions
    --[x] The resumption of trade on the Lystheni's terms (give them their lifeline back).
    --[X] Economic support of Lystheni interests, working towards a common understanding and cooperation (pay them).
    --[x] A general withdrawal of military forces (stand down the 3rd RWF).
    --[X] The release of captured Lystheni intelligence operatives in Virmirean space (give back their spies).
    [X] Plan Strong Pimp Hand
    -[x] Demands
    --[X] The immediate release of Virmirean merchants from Lystheni territory (civilians released as a precondition of continued negotiations).
    --[x] Full disclosure of Lystheni history and society, including their origins and the nature of their animosity towards the Citadel (Lystheni forced to stop being cagey).
    --[x] The resumption of trade, this time on Virmirean terms (resumed trade relations with an open market, economically subordinating the Lystheni to you and proving far more profitable than the previous, protectionist agreement).
    --[x] Full disclosure and surrender of the stations in Sikel in violation of the Virmire-Lystheni Border Treaty (get the artifacts and the stations on which they sit, along with experimental records).
    -[x] Leverage
    --[x] A continued complete trade embargo (what it says).
    --[X] The dissolution of the Virmire-Lystheni Border Treaty and a complete blockade of Lystheni space (claim the LBZ and put defense platforms in every system to make sure that nothing passes).
    --[X] War (make your implicit threat explicit).
    -[x] Concessions
    --[X] Economic support of Lystheni interests, working towards a common understanding and cooperation (pay them).
    --[x] A commitment to maintaining the sovereignty of the Lystheni state as a priority of Virmirean foreign policy (guarantee the Lystheni's independence).
    --[X] The release of captured Lystheni intelligence operatives in Virmirean space (give back their spies).
    [X] Plan: Dreadnought diplomacy
    -[x] Demands
    --[X] The immediate release of Virmirean merchants from Lystheni territory (civilians released as a precondition of continued negotiations).
    --[x] Full disclosure of Lystheni history and society, including their origins and the nature of their animosity towards the Citadel (Lystheni forced to stop being cagey).
    --[x] Full Lystheni commitment to the Rachni War effort (all Lystheni military assets placed under your command).
    --[x] Full disclosure and surrender of the stations in Sikel in violation of the Virmire-Lystheni Border Treaty (get the artifacts and the stations on which they sit, along with experimental records).
    -[x] Leverage
    --[X] The dissolution of the Virmire-Lystheni Border Treaty and a complete blockade of Lystheni space (claim the LBZ and put defense platforms in every system to make sure that nothing passes).
    --[X] Taking the Dalatrass as a hostage.
    --[X] War (make your implicit threat explicit).
    -[x] Concessions
    --[x] A commitment to maintaining the sovereignty of the Lystheni state as a priority of Virmirean foreign policy (guarantee the Lystheni's independence).
    [x] Plan: Initial round
    -[x] Demand 1
    --[X] The immediate release of Virmirean merchants from Lystheni territory (civilians released as a precondition of continued negotiations).
    ---[x] Leverage: War
    ---[x] Concession: A general withdrawal of military forces (stand down the 3rd RWF), half imidiatly on acceptance, the other half after the merchentsare returned.
    ---[x] Concession: The release of captured Lystheni intelligence operatives in Virmirean space (give back their spies), swaped at the same time the merchants are.
    -[x] Demand 2
    --[x] Full disclosure of Lystheni history and society, including their origins and the nature of their animosity towards the Citadel (Lystheni forced to stop being cagey). remind them that we will eventually get it from the Citadel when contact is restablished with them anyways.
    --[x] Leverage: Isolation and containment of Lystheni, containing the following
    ---[x] A commitment to allowing the Citadel unfettered passage through Virmirean space in dealing with the Lystheni however they please (promise to let the Citadel do what they like to the Lystheni when the time comes).
    ---[x] A continued complete trade embargo (what it says).
    ---[x] The dissolution of the Virmire-Lystheni Border Treaty and a complete blockade of Lystheni space (claim the LBZ and put defense platforms in every system to make sure that nothing passes).
    --[x] concession: None, other then Further negotiations. Though the end to the trade embargo is highly likely assuming there is no glaring problem with their history and society.
    [x] Plan Hammer Time
    -[x] Demands
    --[X] The immediate release of Virmirean merchants from Lystheni territory (civilians released as a precondition of continued negotiations).
    --[x] Full disclosure of Lystheni history and society, including their origins and the nature of their animosity towards the Citadel (Lystheni forced to stop being cagey).
    --[x] The resumption of trade, this time on Virmirean terms (resumed trade relations with an open market, economically subordinating the Lystheni to you and proving far more profitable than the previous, protectionist agreement).
    --[x] Full Lystheni commitment to the Rachni War effort (all Lystheni military assets placed under your command).
    --[x] Full disclosure and surrender of the stations in Sikel in violation of the Virmire-Lystheni Border Treaty (get the artifacts and the stations on which they sit, along with experimental records).
    --[X] A Lystheni-funded network of your best observation posts throughout Lystheni space (become Big Sister on the Lystheni's dime).
    -[x] Leverage
    --[x] A continued complete trade embargo (what it says).
    --[X] The dissolution of the Virmire-Lystheni Border Treaty and a complete blockade of Lystheni space (claim the LBZ and put defense platforms in every system to make sure that nothing passes).
    --[X] A commitment to allowing the Citadel unfettered passage through Virmirean space in dealing with the Lystheni however they please (promise to let the Citadel do what they like to the Lystheni when the time comes).
    --[X] War (make your implicit threat explicit).
    --[x] Full disclosure of Lystheni history and society, including their origins and the nature of their animosity towards the Citadel (Lystheni forced to stop being cagey).
    --[x] Full disclosure and surrender of the stations in Sikel in violation of the Virmire-Lystheni Border Treaty (get the artifacts and the stations on which they sit, along with experimental records).
    [X] Plan Damocles
    -[x] Demands
    --[X] The immediate release of Virmirean merchants from Lystheni territory (civilians released as a precondition of continued negotiations).
    --[x] Full disclosure of Lystheni history and society, including their origins and the nature of their animosity towards the Citadel (Lystheni forced to stop being cagey).
    --[x] The resumption of trade, this time on Virmirean terms (resumed trade relations with an open market, economically subordinating the Lystheni to you and proving far more profitable than the previous, protectionist agreement).
    --[x] Full Lystheni commitment to the Rachni War effort (all Lystheni military assets placed under your command).
    --[x] Full disclosure and surrender of the stations in Sikel in violation of the Virmire-Lystheni Border Treaty (get the artifacts and the stations on which they sit, along with experimental records).
    --[X] A Lystheni-funded network of your best observation posts throughout Lystheni space (become Big Sister on the Lystheni's dime).
    -[x] Leverage
    --[x] A continued complete trade embargo (what it says).
    --[X] The dissolution of the Virmire-Lystheni Border Treaty and a complete blockade of Lystheni space (claim the LBZ and put defense platforms in every system to make sure that nothing passes).
    --[X] War (make your implicit threat explicit).
    -[x] Concessions
    --[x] A general withdrawal of military forces (stand down the 3rd RWF).
    --[X] The release of captured Lystheni intelligence operatives in Virmirean space (give back their spies).
    [X] Plan Damocles
    -[X]Demands
    --[X] The immediate release of Virmirean merchants from Lystheni territory (civilians released as a precondition of continued negotiations).
    --[x] Full disclosure of Lystheni history and society, including their origins and the nature of their animosity towards the Citadel (Lystheni forced to stop being cagey).
    --[x] The resumption of trade, this time on Virmirean terms (resumed trade relations with an open market, economically subordinating the Lystheni to you and proving far more profitable than the previous, protectionist agreement).
    --[x] Full Lystheni commitment to the Rachni War effort (all Lystheni military assets placed under your command).
    --[x] Full disclosure and surrender of the stations in Sikel in violation of the Virmire-Lystheni Border Treaty (get the artifacts and the stations on which they sit, along with experimental records).
    --[X] A network of your best observation posts throughout Lystheni space (become Big Sister).
    -[x] Leverage
    --[x] A continued complete trade embargo (what it says).
    --[X] The dissolution of the Virmire-Lystheni Border Treaty and a complete blockade of Lystheni space (claim the LBZ and put defense platforms in every system to make sure that nothing passes).
    --[X] War (make your implicit threat explicit).
    -[X] Concessions
    --[X] Economic support of Lystheni interests, working towards a common understanding and cooperation (basically civilian Marshall Plan by Virmirean companies).
    --[X] A commitment to maintaining the sovereignty of the Lystheni state as a priority of Virmirean foreign policy (guarantee the Lystheni's independence).
    --[x] A general withdrawal of military forces (stand down the 3rd RWF).
    --[X] The release of captured Lystheni intelligence operatives in Virmirean space (give back their spies).
    [X] Don't bother with talking. Just kill the Dalatrass. You know you want it.
Click to expand...
 
uju32 said:
*throws hands in the air*
Eight of the eighteen votes Damocles received came AFTER the changes.
And I noted the changes, and why.

@Miner249er, @LunarTinker, @Dwergar, @CrimsonKnight, @kel, @pbluekan, @NotAlwaysFanfic, @Aigloss, @gutza1, @KnightDisciple, @StormLord, @Crazy7s1, @Spacegnom, @Enjou, @Weird Guy, @Chronic, @ALanos, @Camry, @Gamefreak1ed, @Angelform, @Chacmon

Will you gentlepeople please take a look at the current Damocles plan and be sure you have no problems with it?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Uh, I appreciate you doing this, but its not 8, its 3 after this post. 4 if you count the one right before.
 
uju32 said:
*throws hands in the air*
Eight of the eighteen votes Damocles received came AFTER the changes.
And I noted the changes, and why.

@Miner249er, @LunarTinker, @Dwergar, @CrimsonKnight, @kel, @pbluekan, @NotAlwaysFanfic, @Aigloss, @gutza1, @KnightDisciple, @StormLord, @Crazy7s1, @Spacegnom, @Enjou, @Weird Guy, @Chronic, @ALanos, @Camry, @Gamefreak1ed, @Angelform, @Chacmon

Will you gentlepeople please take a look at the current Damocles plan and be sure you have no problems with it?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I see no problem with it.
 
I think that the reasoning behind the plan didn't change. The older version of the plan was designed on what we are likely to demand/offer in the first round of negotiations. Now we know we need to include everything that we might want to use over the whole interlude.
The old version will probably be how we respond to the first Lystheni offer next update.
 
Last edited:
I voted for it after the changes. Obviously I'm fine with it. And it's not like we don't make plan changes in this thread every now and then anyways - as long as they're announced and the vote isn't going to close soon after, people can know when they happen and react accordingly.
 
You realize that Plan Damocles guarantees Lystheni independence? Do we really want to promise that?
 
Guaranteeing their independence means we won't attack them and we'll come to their defense if someone else, like the Citadel, attacks them.
 
uju32 said:
*throws hands in the air*
Eight of the eighteen votes Damocles received came AFTER the changes.
And I noted the changes, and why.

@Miner249er, @LunarTinker, @Dwergar, @CrimsonKnight, @kel, @pbluekan, @NotAlwaysFanfic, @Aigloss, @gutza1, @KnightDisciple, @StormLord, @Crazy7s1, @Spacegnom, @Enjou, @Weird Guy, @Chronic, @ALanos, @Camry, @Gamefreak1ed, @Angelform, @Chacmon

Will you gentlepeople please take a look at the current Damocles plan and be sure you have no problems with it?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
From my understanding these points:
uju32 said:
-[X] Concessions
--[X] Economic support of Lystheni interests, working towards a common understanding and cooperation (basically civilian Marshall Plan by Virmirean companies).
--[X] A commitment to maintaining the sovereignty of the Lystheni state as a priority of Virmirean foreign policy (guarantee the Lystheni's independence).
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
are included only as in "they better have a huge fucking good reason for being as paranoid, screwed up, and irritating as they have been (as in fleeing from a genocide / purge event initiated by the Salarians)", and in a later vote we would actually decide whether to offer it to them?

Because to be blunt I'd really prefer not to protect the shits from the Council if we could avoid it...

And to be honest I don't think we'd even be able to trust / use the Lystheni warships in any way, shape, or form (from the Demands section)...
 
[X] Plan Damocles
-[x] Demands
--[X] The immediate release of Virmirean merchants from Lystheni territory (civilians released as a precondition of continued negotiations).
--[x] Full disclosure of Lystheni history and society, including their origins and the nature of their animosity towards the Citadel (Lystheni forced to stop being cagey).
--[x] The resumption of trade, this time on Virmirean terms (resumed trade relations with an open market, economically subordinating the Lystheni to you and proving far more profitable than the previous, protectionist agreement).
--[x] Full Lystheni commitment to the Rachni War effort (all Lystheni military assets placed under your command).
--[x] Full disclosure and surrender of the stations in Sikel in violation of the Virmire-Lystheni Border Treaty (get the artifacts and the stations on which they sit, along with experimental records).
--[X] A network of your best observation posts throughout Lystheni space (become Big Sister).
-[x] Leverage
--[x] A continued complete trade embargo (what it says).
--[X] The dissolution of the Virmire-Lystheni Border Treaty and a complete blockade of Lystheni space (claim the LBZ and put defense platforms in every system to make sure that nothing passes).
--[X] War (make your implicit threat explicit).
-[x] Concessions
--[X] Economic support of Lystheni interests, working towards a common understanding and cooperation (basically civilian Marshall Plan by Virmirean companies).
--[x] A commitment to maintaining the sovereignty of the Lystheni state as a priority of Virmirean foreign policy (guarantee the Lystheni's independence).
--[x] A general withdrawal of military forces (stand down the 3rd RWF).
--[X] The release of captured Lystheni intelligence operatives in Virmirean space (give back their spies).
 
uju32 said:
*throws hands in the air*
Eight of the eighteen votes Damocles received came AFTER the changes.
And I noted the changes, and why.

@Miner249er, @LunarTinker, @Dwergar, @CrimsonKnight, @kel, @pbluekan, @NotAlwaysFanfic, @Aigloss, @gutza1, @KnightDisciple, @StormLord, @Crazy7s1, @Spacegnom, @Enjou, @Weird Guy, @Chronic, @ALanos, @Camry, @Gamefreak1ed, @Angelform, @Chacmon

Will you gentlepeople please take a look at the current Damocles plan and be sure you have no problems with it?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
No objection.
 
uju32 said:
*throws hands in the air*
Eight of the eighteen votes Damocles received came AFTER the changes.
And I noted the changes, and why.

@Miner249er, @LunarTinker, @Dwergar, @CrimsonKnight, @kel, @pbluekan, @NotAlwaysFanfic, @Aigloss, @gutza1, @KnightDisciple, @StormLord, @Crazy7s1, @Spacegnom, @Enjou, @Weird Guy, @Chronic, @ALanos, @Camry, @Gamefreak1ed, @Angelform, @Chacmon

Will you gentlepeople please take a look at the current Damocles plan and be sure you have no problems with it?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

not one.
 
I really wish we could just blast these annoying little insects off the galatical map. They're annoying as all hell, too low on resources to be of any great assistance to us and constantly looking to undermine the only real civilized power in this region of space.

Fucking salarians. Never liked them, especially after the genophage.
 
KaldorDraigo said:
I really wish we could just blast these annoying little insects off the galatical map. They're annoying as all hell, too low on resources to be of any great assistance to us and constantly looking to undermine the only real civilized power in this region of space.

Fucking salarians. Never liked them, especially after the genophage.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Don't like the Lystheni either. But I prefer to keep them where they can do the least harm or are just harmless to us. Ideally on a prison world like Alcatraz where they have no ships to use to get off world. I'm sure we could use one of the star systems around here for this purpose. Let the Lystheni stay there in medieval conditions without having to worry about them. Just keep a few orbital platforms or sensor satellites to make sure that they stay on that world and never leave. So no genocide and just exile on the most remote star system we can find in Sentry Omega.

I think guaranteeing Lystheni independence is a bad move and one which we will regret it a lot later.

[X] Plan Hammer Time
​
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Voting is open
Remove ads
Back
Top