Terminus Quest: A CKII Mass Effect Quest

[Tidelore]

1: do we have a map, or a description of a map, that outlines where these two systems are on our front line?
2: which is needed to answer the second question... Is the Maroon sea a vital system we need to hold, or is it just a system we were investigating?
3: if it's not a vital/core system for us, is the cost of fighting this battle worth keeping this system, or would falling aback be a valid tactic in light of this new development (the shields).

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1: Maps are in the 'Status' informational
2: Maroon Sea isn't vital, but it'd massively harm our Galactic Reputation for having taken the cluster and done literally nothing with it and leaving the Caleston Rift open to another avenue of attack.
3: See answer '2'

On the other hand, if we can pull off another epic victory here, we'll look like geniuses luring the Rachni into a trap. "Yes, that was all planned, why do you ask? Are tactics of this level beyond you?"

 

[Randino Treviani]

2: which is needed to answer the second question... Is the Maroon sea a vital system we need to hold, or is it just a system we were investigating?

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Maroon sea is a good forward system as holding it lowers the number of relays that need to be guarded by 1 for both us and the terminus alliance. With some prep it also makes a good forward base with which to conduct raids on Rachni territory.

3: if it's not a vital/core system for us, is the cost of fighting this battle worth keeping this system, or would falling aback be a valid tactic in light of this new development (the shields).

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The cost is unlikely to be high as we still likely hold superior barrier tech, and can field higher numbers of barrier using ships than them. As such this is entirely a winnable battle, it's simply a question of what we are expecting to happen and how we wish to arrange our forces with that in mind.

Do we press force strongly into Maroon Sea hoping to overwhelm their fleets and perhaps gain an opportunity to deal significant damage in the aftermath if no attack on Attican Beta manifests? Or do we accept a more drawn out battle by only sending raiding fleets and possibly delaying any counter offensive by the need to vent heat and possibly repair more raiding vessels?

I'm in favor of a strong response. We'll take fewer casualties if their fire is split between multiple fleets and their screen spread thin by a pincer attack or encirclement, which would also allow us to bring guns to bear on their barrier lacking vessels for a swifter conclusion.

 

[TerrisH]

so very important, but not vital..

hmm Plus it's in a position that any forces sent could be re-routed/withdrawn to a vital system if this is a distraction. Be it Caston rift or Attican Beta.

Best not to withdraw with this level of problems. And any amount of force we send would be suitable in my eyes, apart from withdrawing the battle fleet from Attican Beta. Only if the situation escalates beyond this (as in a major push by the bugs into the system) would withdraw be palatable.

 

[Mad0Slayer]

[ ] Plan [Extreme Concentration of Force]
-[ ] Inform the Alliance?
--[ ] Yes. They're impacted by this, and you're a formal member now. This is no longer the time to hold back.
-[ ] Call for the Terminus Joint Fleets?
--[ ] No. This isn't the kind of battle they train to fight, and you have yet to thresh out a joint command structure. There are also the obvious political reasons not to call for help on this particular issue.
-[ ] Who reinforces Maroon Sea? Check all that apply.
--[ ] 1st Battle Fleet. You need firepower, you need it now.
--[ ] 1st Raiding Fleet. They will (in part) get there fastest.
--[ ] 2nd Raiding Fleet. They're not in a frontline system.
-[ ] Who holds Attican Beta? Check all that apply.
--[ ] 2nd Raiding Fleet. To be blunt, they offer the least to the actual, ongoing fight in Maroon Sea.

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I think I like this plan best, we don't need that heavy a presence in Attican Beta since it's fortified so a single raiding fleet should be enough to provide enough cover until we deal with the fleets in the Maroon Sea. Might be a risk but I'd rather knock the 3 Rachni fleets out quickly so that our fleets are free to act and come out this more intact. We also get more ships to the fight quicker.

As it stands I don't want those barrier-equipped ships to escape, it should reduce the amount of data they get as this is the first combat deployment we know of, we also get to play a nice reverse card and kick their teeth in if this goes well and get some raiding fleets through into the Shadow Sea. Assuming they don't attack our most fortified system.

When last did we raid Hades Gamma? Because if it was recent then I don't think they'll try to attack us with a bad logistics line, not without requiring a lot of effort.

 

[Randino Treviani]

When last did we raid Hades Gamma?

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I'm not sure when last we raided it.

Toral looks up and immediately floats a datapad over to you with his biotics. "Two hours ago, the 3rd Raiding Fleet returned early from its scheduled raid into Hades Gamma. They reported a Rachni fleet, approximately the size of two Battle Fleets, massing there."

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But it's safe too assume that a raid into Hades Gamma was conducted at some point within a year of recontact, based on the fact that a typical raid was scheduled for year 32 and would have been carried out of not for the Wrath of the Swarm event. Suffice to say Mira was confident infrastructure was damaged beyond use ability in year 32 and it's unlikely they've been able to recover much in the almost 4 years since.

Regardless, there are other clusters of greater significance to the war, and we are of lesser significance to the Rachni than the terminus alliance or council. Either way we can afford to go light and perhaps ensure a favorable outcome where it looks like we baited the Rachni into an ambush and crushed multiple Rachni fleets in a favorable exchange of warships.

 

[ConfusedCanuck]

Oh damn the rachni have barriers that's bad and honestly they got it faster than I expected? Did they capture enough battlefield salvage to reverse engineer it or were they given examples of the tech to level the playing field?

 

[Karugus]

Well, I'm glad this is still shaking out exactly within our expectations. The Rachni are heavily committed, looking to trade in attrition with us or hit Caleston Rift's less fortified relays- worst case scenario in conjunction a direct assault on Caleston through Styx or Shadow Sea.

There might be egg on our faces, but we need to call the Alliance even as we muster for slugging match. That being said, we don't have joint command, and there's a very real chance the Rachni are using their numerical superiority to launch an assault elsewhere in tandem. That being said- I think it's a mistake not to commit the second Battle Fleet. Atticus Beta is heavily fortified. Even a raiding fleet or two can at least serve as a delaying measure and make sure there's a price to be paid- but expecting our forces to stand up 2-to-3 against a foe closer to parity than we'd like? Our raiders are going to be bled fighting a battle they aren't intended for.

We shouldn't expect heroic performances from our forces as a matter of course- as much as they've delivered in the past.

 

[uju32]

Thoughts before bedtime.

Lessons Learned

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COMMENTARY
Three battlefleets, each with six dreadnoughts, numbers eighteen dreadnoughts.
The Attican Commonwealth, with 2x battlefleets, has 12 dreadnoughts total.
Just to keep things in perspective.


The Rachni commanding admiral has Martial 18.
That means she is not Mira's old enemy Admiral Mindtalker, who has Martial 20 IIRC.
Which makes me nervous whenever I cant see that rachni queen.

For reference, our current admirals are

Yi'hun(1st Battle Fleet): Martial 18.
Suna(2nd Battle Fleet): Martial 18
Beshkar(1st Raiding Fleet): Martial 19
Semateth(2nd Raiding Fleet): ???
Mordin(3rd Raiding Fleet): Martial 20.


We're looking at refits in a ratio of 1x refit to 2x old designs.
That means that Rachni industry still has bottlenecks to work through if only a third of the battlefleet they are throwing at us got the new shields. Either that, or they are more focused on newbuilds.

Still, eighteen dreadnoughts represents more than 10% of the strategic reserve they committed at Horsehead Nebula.
I doubt they are simply throwing them away.


Our current strategic situation: We have two frontline clusters in Maroon Sea and Attican Beta.
Maroon Sea leads to rachni space at Shadow Sea. Attican Beta has only leads to rachni-held Hades Nexus.
Attican Beta has to be camped by a fleet, preferably two. It denies the Rachni too much to take unnecessary risks.

That frees up two Raiding Fleets. Plus the Explorer Corps.



Virmire has the only extant anti-barrier doctrine in the Terminus or the Citadel, and our BC-heavy raiding fleets are great at open space maneuver. Ergo, we are probably best suited for murdering this task force in open space.
But we shouldnt uncover Attican Beta.

Always apply mass when possible. Call the Joint Fleets.
At best they play anvil to our hammer, at worst they are mobilized if we need to send reinforcements to Attican Beta.

In an open field battle, battlecruisers allow us to dictate the pace of battle, both in attack and retreat.
They are more fragile, but also quicker/faster-accelerating, and as long ranged as the enemy dreadnoughts.
Plus, shields.


RECOMMENDATIONS
We tell the Terminus immediately.
I would not put it past the Rachni to throw one of those fleets at the relay to Caleston Rift, and it would be more than a little embarassing if they didnt have ample warning. And they should tell the Citadel immediately.

Summon the Joint Fleets.
Either they play anvil to our hammer, or we have a backup fleet ready if they throw a probe at Attican Beta and 2nd Battle Fleet.

Bring at least two Raiding Fleets to Maroon Sea, plus the Explorer Corps.
I would recommend Mordin(3rd Raiding, Martial 20) + Beshkar(1st Raiding, Martial 19).
Bring the A-team.

Semateth(2nd Raiding, Martial ??) + Yi'hun(1st Battle, Martial 18) guard Attican Beta from behind fortifications.

If the Joint Fleets can spare us a fleet to bear, great.
But at a minimum, we want to stack our best here, and see if we can recreate some magic.
Plus Kurik.

---

One or two raiding fleets to reinforce the 2nd should be enough to see this force off.

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Three battle fleets is eighteen dreadnoughts.
Thats more dreads in this one task force than the Commonwealth has in total in its entire star navy.
Even if you count our battlecruisers, we barely have 3 more capitals than they are risking here.

So I think you are being entirely too blase

Well, that's a completely ridiculous thing to manage. design entire new ships around barrier tech and field a battle fleet from them in a little less than 4 years. Oh well.

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*points at rachni history*
They began this war after reverse-engineering a salarian FTL drive. They have salvaged decades of wreckage of salarian and asari warships equipped with barriers. They literally designed and deployed their own battlecruisers faster than they are deploying kinetic barriers.

Nothing here is outside their displayed capabilities. If anything, they have been slow about this.
I suspect its more about doctrine, and maybe production bottlenecks.
Who knows.

---

@PoptartProdigy
QUESTION
If we call a Terminus fleet forward from Caleston Rift, can they take the place of 1st Battle Fleet at AB-HN, freeing them to come to Maroon Sea? Im looking at the transit times during Resurgent Grace, and it seems feasible.
I just dont know about the particulars.

 

[Dwergar]

[ ] Plan All quiet on coreward front
-[ ] Inform the Alliance?
--[ ] Yes. They're impacted by this, and you're a formal member now. This is no longer the time to hold back.
-[ ] Call for the Terminus Joint Fleets?
--[ ] Yes. You are going to be seriously pressed resolving this yourself, and even then it could get bloody. You want mass.
---[ ] Ask for a battlefleet to be deployed into Attican Beta to take over defense posts from Mordin Sentra - hopefully, that'd allow to avoid issues with chain of command.
-[ ] Who reinforces Maroon Sea? Check all that apply.
--[ ] 1st Battle Fleet. You need firepower, you need it now.
-[ ] Who holds Attican Beta? Check all that apply.
--[ ] 1st Raiding Fleet. It's not their job, but they're present and can (in part) stand up immediately.
--[ ] 2nd Raiding Fleet. To be blunt, they offer the least to the actual, ongoing fight in Maroon Sea.
--[ ] 3rd Raiding Fleet. You trust Mordin to buy time if he needs to.

Well, I'd propose this - releasing another battlefleet and probably Mira to go contest the Maroon Sea, 2 battlefleets should be able to hold a while - and giving our raiding fleets time to get all those ships out of maintenance; As it is, they're at ~66% strength, that has got to play havoc with coordination and make them even more fragile than normal.

Not calling for immediate TJF deployment in Maroon Sea, but if they have a battle fleet they can shake loose for Attican Beta (if not necessarily best-coordinated or with full OOB), that could prove useful to let us deploy raiding fleets - plausibly to throw them into Maroon Sea as we leave it to Rachni and make it biggest raid to date while we're assembling a counterpunch.

 

[PoptartProdigy]

The Rachni commanding admiral has Martial 18.

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Your commanding admiral has martial 18. We no longer do opposed battle rolls; now, I just give you a DC, based in part on the enemy's martial score, but you no longer get to see that martial score as part of doing rolls.

@PoptartProdigy
QUESTION
If we call a Terminus fleet forward from Caleston Rift, can they take the place of 1st Battle Fleet at AB-HN, freeing them to come to Maroon Sea? Im looking at the transit times during Resurgent Grace, and it seems feasible.
I just dont know about the particulars.

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It's feasible. No comment on if the TJF is willing to entrust the resolution of the situation to you to that degree, at this point, but you can vote to request that that be their deployment.

 

[Dwergar]

By the way, how long would it take for all those ships in maintenance to return to full readiness? Would it be done in short enough timeframe, or to this battle our raiding fleets come as they are?

 

[PoptartProdigy]

By the way, how long would it take for all those ships in maintenance to return to full readiness? Would it be done in short enough timeframe, or to this battle our raiding fleets come as they are?

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They'll be out for the battle. Not for this upcoming update, but for the battle.

 

[Dwergar]

Well, that calls for an amendment of the plan.

[ ] Plan All according to keikaku
-[ ] Inform the Alliance?
--[ ] Yes. They're impacted by this, and you're a formal member now. This is no longer the time to hold back.
-[ ] Call for the Terminus Joint Fleets?
--[ ] No. This isn't the kind of battle they train to fight, and you have yet to thresh out a joint command structure. There are also the obvious political reasons not to call for help on this particular issue.
-[ ] Who reinforces Maroon Sea? Check all that apply.
--[ ] 1st Battle Fleet. You need firepower, you need it now.
---[ ] Both battle fleets are to conduct withdrawal through the Relay to Attican Beta once insertion of raiding fleets is done.
--[ ] 1st Raiding Fleet. It's not their job, but they're present and can (in part) stand up immediately.
---[ ] Upon insertion, the fleet is to assume raiding duties.
--[ ] 2nd Raiding Fleet. To be blunt, they offer the least to the actual, ongoing fight in Maroon Sea.
---[ ] Upon insertion, the fleet is to assume raiding duties.
--[ ] 3rd Raiding Fleet. You trust Mordin to buy time if he needs to.
---[ ] Upon insertion, the fleet is to assume raiding duties.

So, let the Rachni hold the Maroon Sea cluster without any infrastructure in place and with equivalent of ~2 raiding fleets in place, while we&TJF can prepare a counterpunch.
Full three raiding fleets would be better, but alas, we don't have that.

 

[Yatr]

Well, that calls for an amendment of the plan.

[ ] Plan All according to keikaku
-[ ] Inform the Alliance?
--[ ] Yes. They're impacted by this, and you're a formal member now. This is no longer the time to hold back.
-[ ] Call for the Terminus Joint Fleets?
--[ ] No. This isn't the kind of battle they train to fight, and you have yet to thresh out a joint command structure. There are also the obvious political reasons not to call for help on this particular issue.
-[ ] Who reinforces Maroon Sea? Check all that apply.
--[ ] 1st Battle Fleet. You need firepower, you need it now.
---[ ] Both battle fleets are to conduct withdrawal through the Relay to Attican Beta once insertion of raiding fleets is done.
--[ ] 1st Raiding Fleet. It's not their job, but they're present and can (in part) stand up immediately.
---[ ] Upon insertion, the fleet is to assume raiding duties.
--[ ] 2nd Raiding Fleet. To be blunt, they offer the least to the actual, ongoing fight in Maroon Sea.
---[ ] Upon insertion, the fleet is to assume raiding duties.
--[ ] 3rd Raiding Fleet. You trust Mordin to buy time if he needs to.
---[ ] Upon insertion, the fleet is to assume raiding duties.

So, let the Rachni hold the Maroon Sea cluster without any infrastructure in place and with equivalent of ~2 raiding fleets in place, while we&TJF can prepare a counterpunch.
Full three raiding fleets would be better, but alas, we don't have that.

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So to be clear, this plan is to have the battle fleets play for time while the raiding fleets arrive, then retreat to let the raiding fleets fight the rachni alone?

 

[Pittauro]

"She retreated?" you say, scowling as you hustle along behind the harried young asari who came to notify you.

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I knew we should have sent more forces!

but yeah, 1 fleet vs 3, AND we rolled a tie. this is actually a really good result it seems.

..unless this was a distraction, and I'm about to read about another attack somewhere else...

Lirak Suna is a woman of incredible self-possession. Her service is long by salarian standards; she has grown old in a profession that challenges salarians in a service with more long-lived colleagues. She has a Dalatrass's bearing and resolve, shaped by the discipline and focus of a life-service officer.

And, to your eyes, she looks rattled. She stiffens as you come into view. There's a slight tremble to her fingers at her sides. Your confusion melts into a nameless dread as you sit in your chair. You look her in the eye. "Fleet Admiral. Report."

Lirak swallows. "Prime Minister. The third battle fleet is equipped with kinetic barriers."

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1) you know, for some reason I thought it unlikely for female salarian to join the military. Then again they ARE naturally born leaders of their people, so it would make sense for them to also be admirals and officers...

2)yeah, barriers. it had to happen sooner or later. I wonder, are the Rachni just... throwing away their older fleets WITHOUT barriers, maybe because it's not that much cheaper to refit them compared to building completely new ones? Due to their numbers and expected production capacity I could see them deciding that building new ships just makes more sense than refitting old ones to new tech. It's not like they care about losing troops

• 
  

  • The barriers do not appear to be up to your deployed ships' standards, but these also do not appear to be new vessel classes; you suspect these are refits, and thus do not represent the Rachni's state of the art. Regardless, for now you do still hold superiority on barrier quality.

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...nope, they ARE refits. my bad.




well, I think we HAVE to inform the Alliance. It doesn't matter if we ask or don't ask for help, they should be informed just in case.

now the question becomes... what can we spare, and what do we need to keep at the other relays just in case this is a distraction? I dont' think we can afford to send everything.

It might be better to ask for help here. Either for the Maroon Sea, or potentially to send a defensive fleet at one of the spots we might leave more lightly defended instead.

Wow, the highly industrious starfaring race that never rest are capable of learning and can build starships in a reasonable amount of time. Crazy.

Anyways, I'm not super sure how the combat system works so I don't have strong opinions on that vote. Politically though we should obviously inform our close allies that we're under attack. I don't think it requires calling the Joint Fleets yet, that's reserved for if we are looking to lose the cluster totally and need to stop a potential breakout. But 1000% obviously tell them that we're being pushed and they should remain alert.

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eh, it's easy.

opposed D50 with martial bonus.

if we win by less than 5, it's a first degree success (slight success, basically)

If we win by more than 5 but LESS than the enemy's total roll, that's a second degree success (a solid success)

if we win by MORE than twice the enemy's roll (example, they roll 30 total, we get 60...or 61, not sure which), it's a third degree success. Basically things went as well for us (and bad for them) as possible.

and all of this is relative to the forces in question. A single ship might get a few hits in, maybe destroy a ship or two if it's really lucky, but it WON'T win against a full fleet anymore than a dozen of policemen could win against a few hundreds infantry soldiers. A canon fleet won't win against a Reaper Fleet no matter what they roll, but they MIGHT be able to destroy a few Reapers.


It's kind of a shame we got only a tie. If we got a second degree of success I think we might have been able to heavily damage, maybe even outright destroy at least one of the barrierless fleets before the third one came in.


aaaand apparently the rules changed and I didn't notice...

And it's reasonably likely that this is their first combat outing with the new barrier ships on any large scale, because they can credibly threaten us with a single battlefleet of barrier-equipped ships along with a few more fleets of the older ships. That wouldn't be enough force to move the front lines meaningfully on the main fronts, but against us it's a problem. So they throw their first few squadrons of prototypes into an offensive against us where we appear overextended.

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I wonder... if we managed to near-completely destroy the barrier-equipped fleet, might we end up convincing them that they're not worth the cost, and delay their integration in the rest of their fleets?

Oh damn the rachni have barriers that's bad and honestly they got it faster than I expected? Did they capture enough battlefield salvage to reverse engineer it or were they given examples of the tech to level the playing field?

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It's hardly a surprise. We believe they've ALWAYS had the ability to build barriers. Not using them was an economic choice.

Barriers are expensive, they weren't THAT useful before, and Rachni don't really care about losing people the way we do. They can also build ships really quickly.

So they made a calculated decision that the extra ships (and thus extra firepower) they could throw by building cheaper barrierless ships was worth reducing their durability.

They now changed their mind due to overwhelming evidence that yeah, barriers matter a LOT, and thus they probably took what prototypes they continued to develop in the background and applied them to this fleet for testing.

Well, I'm glad this is still shaking out exactly within our expectations. The Rachni are heavily committed, looking to trade in attrition with us or hit Caleston Rift's less fortified relays- worst case scenario in conjunction a direct assault on Caleston through Styx or Shadow Sea.

There might be egg on our faces, but we need to call the Alliance even as we muster for slugging match. That being said, we don't have joint command, and there's a very real chance the Rachni are using their numerical superiority to launch an assault elsewhere in tandem. That being said- I think it's a mistake not to commit the second Battle Fleet. Atticus Beta is heavily fortified. Even a raiding fleet or two can at least serve as a delaying measure and make sure there's a price to be paid- but expecting our forces to stand up 2-to-3 against a foe closer to parity than we'd like? Our raiders are going to be bled fighting a battle they aren't intended for.

We shouldn't expect heroic performances from our forces as a matter of course- as much as they've delivered in the past.

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What if we asked for the Terminus to send a fleet to defend Attican Beta (mostly) on their own, and we sent most of OUR fleets (better able to coordinate) to Maroon Sea?

a "token" force left at other relays should be potentially able to hold out long enough for the Terminus forces to arrive, if they're willing to cooperate.

Your commanding admiral has martial 18. We no longer do opposed battle rolls; now, I just give you a DC, based in part on the enemy's martial score, but you no longer get to see that martial score as part of doing rolls.

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uh, really? I completely missed this change.

It's feasible. No comment on if the TJF is willing to entrust the resolution of the situation to you to that degree, at this point, but you can vote to request that that be their deployment.

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as we haven't integrated the chain of commands, keeping terminus fleets and virmirean fleets on different fronts seems to make sense.

 

[Dwergar]

So to be clear, this plan is to have the battle fleets play for time while the raiding fleets arrive, then retreat to let the raiding fleets fight the rachni alone?

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Yes.
Run them ragged in a battle uniquely suited to our raiding fleets, then extract our forces &/ retake Maroon Sea depending on the situation.

As is, it'd be raiding but worse for the Rachni, as they have 0 immediately useful fleet architecture (and anything they try to bring in is a target for our raiders), we have observation probes scattered all over the system (and likely cluster), and we throw double the usual amount of fleets at the problem.

Rachni might manage to hold, but it'd be a very expensive affair for them.

 

[Kyr'am]

Yes.
Run them ragged in a battle uniquely suited to our raiding fleets, then extract our forces &/ retake Maroon Sea depending on the situation.

As is, it'd be raiding but worse for the Rachni, as they have 0 immediately useful fleet architecture (and anything they try to bring in is a target for our raiders), we have observation probes scattered all over the system (and likely cluster), and we throw double the usual amount of fleets at the problem.

Rachni might manage to hold, but it'd be a very expensive affair for them.

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Somehow, I suspect you're being rather overly optimistic about how things would go for us with that plan. I would be very surprised if the Rachni don't have plans of their own (not to mention quite possibly another unpleasant surprise or two).

 

[KhazintheDark]

We can send a battle fleet and hold that BF's cluster with two raiding fleets.

The worrying thing is that we need to increase our fleet size again thanks to barriers.

 

[Randino Treviani]

---[ ] Both battle fleets are to conduct withdrawal through the Relay to Attican Beta once insertion of raiding fleets is done.

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This is not the wisest choice, as our raiding fleets have less than half the vessel count of a standard battle fleet and no dreadnoughts to make the most of long and extreme ranges. To a degree we need a credible threat in system that can engage them directly as there is no conclusive proof they are after Maroon sea rather than planning something involving Caleston rift or Nubien expanse.

In general we should keep a battle fleet in Maroon sea, but minimum we shouldn't recall the 2nd battle fleet to Attican Beta unless it comes under attack. This battle is winnable, even if we only throw two raiding fleets as reinforcements, it would just come at a higher cost. The 1st battle fleet has held 2 Rachni fleets at HG-AB relay for two days without support previously.

In general, we should be focusing on where we want our fleets next update, and how quickly we want to reinforce the second. While there are longterm considerations, I think keeping there dreadnoughts from being able to focus on our dreadnought in three to one ratios in the short term by getting another battle fleet there is a wise move given the cassaulties a dreadnought loss represents.

2 raiding fleets can hold Attican beta more than long enough with us over fullfilling static defense commitments at the HG-AB relay. One raiding fleet would buy enough time in a pinch if we used an extreme concentration of force to pincer or encircle their fleets to start killing the barrier lacking fleets early in the engagement. This is all assuming that attican beta is even a target, which is unlikely in my opinion given the greater strategic importance of targets like Caleston Rift or Exodus Cluster.

 

[uju32]

Your commanding admiral has martial 18. We no longer do opposed battle rolls; now, I just give you a DC, based in part on the enemy's martial score, but you no longer get to see that martial score as part of doing rolls.

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Error on my part.
Gonna have to refresh my memory on the new combat mechanics, and to think on this.
Because Im not currently sure how the commanding admiral for a combat theater is selected now that things have changed.

For example.

In a battle with multiple friendly fleets, how do we know which admiral's Martial score applies?
Does the best admiral's Martial apply ie the nominal commander listening/benefitting from the advice of the most skillful?
Or is it simply a coin toss?

It's feasible. No comment on if the TJF is willing to entrust the resolution of the situation to you to that degree, at this point, but you can vote to request that that be their deployment.

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Ah, great. Gonna think on this some more before coming back to things
But right now Im leaning towards pulling 2nd Battle Fleet and 2+3rd Raiding Fleet and sending them to Maroon Sea, leaving Beshkar and 1st in charge of Attican Beta and asking the Terminus Fleets to send him reinforcements.

 

[uju32]

It's hardly a surprise. We believe they've ALWAYS had the ability to build barriers. Not using them was an economic choice.

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Its entirely possible that part of the secret behind their build rates so far has been that while everyone else has tried to squeeze barriers into their warships?
The Rachni generally havent bothered because it was difficult and time/resource-consuming.

2)yeah, barriers. it had to happen sooner or later. I wonder, are the Rachni just... throwing away their older fleets WITHOUT barriers, maybe because it's not that much cheaper to refit them compared to building completely new ones? Due to their numbers and expected production capacity I could see them deciding that building new ships just makes more sense than refitting old ones to new tech. It's not like they care about losing troops

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That said, while I doubt they particularly sensitive to losing troops, I think they are to losing Queens.
And I think there are supposed to be Queens on every dreadnought out there. Which does in part explain some of the ships deliberately putting their vessels in the ballistic path of capital ship railguns in order to block shots aimed at the dreadnoughts.

There has to be some way we can take advantage of this.
But for the life of me I cant currently think of how.

 

[Pittauro]

That said, while I doubt they particularly sensitive to losing troops, I think they are to losing Queens.
And I think there are supposed to be Queens on every dreadnought out there. Which does in part explain some of the ships deliberately putting their vessels in the ballistic path of capital ship railguns in order to block shots aimed at the dreadnoughts.

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...we do that too, I think.

It's the simple and cruel math of war: a dreadnought is worth more than any other ship, so you'll sacrifice any other ship to save it. that's what screening vessels are for.

A big part of the Corvettes/Frigates role is exactly that to be meat-shields for Dreadnoughts.

fair point about them not quite wanting to lose queens, but even so we don't know exactly how much they care about them. They ARE indoctrinated, after all, and plenty willing to sacrifice themselves.

 

[uju32]

...we do that too, I think.
It's the simple and cruel math of war: a dreadnought is worth more than any other ship, so you'll sacrifice any other ship to save it. that's what screening vessels are for.

A big part of the Corvettes/Frigates role is exactly that to be meat-shields for Dreadnoughts.

fair point about them not quite wanting to lose queens, but even so we don't know exactly how much they care about them. They ARE indoctrinated, after all, and plenty willing to sacrifice themselves.

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We dont. Not to my knowledge.

Screening vessels are there to scout, prevent enemy vessels from scouting, prevent other smaller ships from mobbing our capital ships, and to mob enemy capital ships in turn. They do not physically put themselves between capital railgun fire and its targets; thats suicide, and we do not ask suicide of our soldiers.


Ship and fleet commanders take time to season and to get the experience that makes them effective.
Even on purely pragmatic grounds, the rachni would not simply throw their Queens, who act as fleet commanders, away. You waste that Martial 20 queen, and then you get to start again with a Martial 10 newbie.

 

[Dwergar]

This is not the wisest choice, as our raiding fleets have less than half the vessel count of a standard battle fleet and no dreadnoughts to make the most of long and extreme ranges. To a degree we need a credible threat in system that can engage them directly as there is no conclusive proof they are after Maroon sea rather than planning something involving Caleston rift or Nubien expanse.

In general we should keep a battle fleet in Maroon sea, but minimum we shouldn't recall the 2nd battle fleet to Attican Beta unless it comes under attack. This battle is winnable, even if we only throw two raiding fleets as reinforcements, it would just come at a higher cost. The 1st battle fleet has held 2 Rachni fleets at HG-AB relay for two days without support previously.

In general, we should be focusing on where we want our fleets next update, and how quickly we want to reinforce the second. While there are longterm considerations, I think keeping there dreadnoughts from being able to focus on our dreadnought in three to one ratios in the short term by getting another battle fleet there is a wise move given the cassaulties a dreadnought loss represents.

2 raiding fleets can hold Attican beta more than long enough with us over fullfilling static defense commitments at the HG-AB relay. One raiding fleet would buy enough time in a pinch if we used an extreme concentration of force to pincer or encircle their fleets to start killing the barrier lacking fleets early in the engagement. This is all assuming that attican beta is even a target, which is unlikely in my opinion given the greater strategic importance of targets like Caleston Rift or Exodus Cluster.

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We lost the advantageous position of fighting a Relay battle on defensive, and during Wrath of the Swarm 1st battlefleet struggled to hold position against 2 Rachni battlefleets - that's the old standard.
Right now Rachni also have a fleet with barriers - if anything, worth more than a regular one - and an unknown number of battlefleets still waiting to jump, at half-hour interval.
If it was just three battlefleets we'd seen, then throwing our forces and betting on skill could work. Maybe even if they add one or two more fleets.

I'm not sure their force is limited to that number.

And then, while a fleet battle destroying much of naval Rachni strength would be nice, I don't think we can afford it anymore. Rachni dislodged us from the Relay, are likely to have a mass advantage, and are seeking a fleet battle.

Thus, I'd propose denying them fleet battle and force them to either leave Maroon Sea once more - which is sufficient for our goal of denying the cluster - or suffer friction and losses in cluster where they have no naval infrastructure and many raiders nipping at their heels.
And if they choose the second one, then we can throw most of our fresh fleet at their garrisons, which would not be fresh and likely won't be there in as big a number.

We dont. Not to my knowledge.

Screening vessels are there to scout, prevent enemy vessels from scouting, prevent other smaller ships from mobbing our capital ships, and to mob enemy capital ships in turn. They do not physically put themselves between capital railgun fire and its targets; thats suicide, and we do not ask suicide of our soldiers.


Ship and fleet commanders take time to season and to get the experience that makes them effective.
Even on purely pragmatic grounds, the rachni would not simply throw their Queens, who act as fleet commanders, away. You waste that Martial 20 queen, and then you get to start again with a Martial 10 newbie.

Click to shrink...

Should check Wrath of the Swarm, I think there were some references to us using screens to bodyblock fires...

Yeah, Ebb and Flow references that on our part, at Hades Gamma relay.

 

[Faith]

We dont. Not to my knowledge.

Screening vessels are there to scout, prevent enemy vessels from scouting, prevent other smaller ships from mobbing our capital ships, and to mob enemy capital ships in turn. They do not physically put themselves between capital railgun fire and its targets; thats suicide, and we do not ask suicide of our soldiers.

Click to shrink...

We do, and it happens in literally the latest update.

It's just that, having barriers, we can reasonably expect our cruisers to survive catching the bullet at least once, and then they can cycle out and let someone else catch bullets for a while whilst their barriers recharge.

And, at extreme range, when your ships take shots to shield the dreadnoughts, they simply cycle back out of the line of fire to let their barriers recover.

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