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Terminus Quest: A CKII Mass Effect Quest

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PoptartProdigy said:
Lirak swallows. "Prime Minister. The third battle fleet is equipped with kinetic barriers."
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Well, that's a completely ridiculous thing to manage. design entire new ships around barrier tech and field a battle fleet from them in a little less than 4 years. Oh well.

Important points to note.

¹Our fleet in Attican Beta will benefit from defensive stations and mines around the relay to rely upon to a degree.

²we probably want at least the first raiding for fastest reinforcements.

³best to warn terminus since a push like this makes more sense if it was in support of a push targeting Caleston.

⁴If we send the 1st battle fleet to Maroon probably have Mordin and the third guarding Attican would be sufficient.

⁵attican beta is less likely target than Caleston given previous Rachni priority.

Way I see it we can either leave the first battle fleet guarding Attican Beta and scramble all raiding fleets to Maroon sea to reinforce, or send 1st raiding and 1st battle to Maroon sea while raiding 2nd and 3rd guard the Hades gamma Relay.
 
Eh, nothing we can't handle.

I personally recommend sending our raiding fleets. Make this a hit and run battle. There's nothing of value in Maroon Sea and thus nothing we need to park a fleet in front of to defend. We can draw this fight out as much as we please and whittle them down.

This also plays distinctly to our advantages as with our superior barriers it should be simple to dive in, attack, and retreat before any significant damage is dealt to our ships. That, combined with the Raiding Fleets being naturally highly mobile will let us run rings around the Rachni as long as the admiral doesn't fuck up.

The 2nd Battlefleet can act as a moving hard point for the raiding fleets to act around.
 
Wow, the highly industrious starfaring race that never rest are capable of learning and can build starships in a reasonable amount of time. Crazy.

Anyways, I'm not super sure how the combat system works so I don't have strong opinions on that vote. Politically though we should obviously inform our close allies that we're under attack. I don't think it requires calling the Joint Fleets yet, that's reserved for if we are looking to lose the cluster totally and need to stop a potential breakout. But 1000% obviously tell them that we're being pushed and they should remain alert.
 
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Void Stalker said:
This is currently what I lean towards- because this could still be a large feint to draw forces from the Rift or Attican Beta, at a minimum this will let the alliance forces in the rift and elsewhere go to ready stations and likely pull forces to various front line posts at which point in the next round we can call them in if needs be.
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I think it more likely this was an attempt to strike at Caleston Rift by passing through maroon sea to attack them from three relays and spread their defenders thin or pull them away from relays in shadow sea and argus roh just before others arrive from those relays.
uri said:
They are specifically noted for being old ships and designs but with refits so its not as bad as it could be.
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Fair point.
[] Plan [Mobile Defense]
-[] Inform the Alliance?
--[] Yes. They're impacted by this, and you're a formal member now. This is no longer the time to hold back.
-[] Call for the Terminus Joint Fleets?
--[] No. This isn't the kind of battle they train to fight, and you have yet to thresh out a joint command structure. There are also the obvious political reasons not to call for help on this particular issue.
-[ ] Who reinforces Maroon Sea? Check all that apply.
--[ ] 1st Raiding Fleet. They will (in part) get there fastest.
--[ ] 2nd Raiding Fleet. They're not in a frontline system.
--[ ] 3rd Raiding Fleet. They're not in a frontline system, and Mordin is one of your greats.
-[ ] Who holds Attican Beta? Check all that apply.
--[ ] 1st Battle Fleet. It's their AO and you don't know that another assault isn't coming.

This plan sets us up for a drawn out battle in maroon sea with about 2 raiding fleets worth ships in the short term and 3 in the medium term. It's a battle we'll win but it might be more costly do to fewer dreadnoughts to make the most of the range advantage to deal damage.

[ ] Plan [Concentration of Force]
-[ ] Inform the Alliance?
--[ ] Yes. They're impacted by this, and you're a formal member now. This is no longer the time to hold back.
-[ ] Call for the Terminus Joint Fleets?
--[ ] No. This isn't the kind of battle they train to fight, and you have yet to thresh out a joint command structure. There are also the obvious political reasons not to call for help on this particular issue.
-[ ] Who reinforces Maroon Sea? Check all that apply.
--[ ] 1st Battle Fleet. You need firepower, you need it now.
--[ ] 1st Raiding Fleet. They will (in part) get there fastest.
-[ ] Who holds Attican Beta? Check all that apply.
--[ ] 2nd Raiding Fleet. To be blunt, they offer the least to the actual, ongoing fight in Maroon Sea.
--[ ] 3rd Raiding Fleet. You trust Mordin to buy time if he needs to.

Plan uses Fast reinforcements to maroon sea with plenty of dreadnought and battle cruisers to bring a lot of guns to bear in a short time to start dealing significant damage to Rachni fleets early, before the 2nd battle fleet can sustain much damage. Between stationary defense at the relay and two raiding fleets, we would have sufficient concentration of force to defend Attican Beta in the unlikely event of an attack(we are still less of a presence on the Rachni's target agenda than terminus as a whole and Caleston rift in particular) long enough to finish off forces in maroon sea.

Thoughts?

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[ ] Plan [Extreme Concentration of Force]
-[ ] Inform the Alliance?
--[ ] Yes. They're impacted by this, and you're a formal member now. This is no longer the time to hold back.
-[ ] Call for the Terminus Joint Fleets?
--[ ] No. This isn't the kind of battle they train to fight, and you have yet to thresh out a joint command structure. There are also the obvious political reasons not to call for help on this particular issue.
-[ ] Who reinforces Maroon Sea? Check all that apply.
--[ ] 1st Battle Fleet. You need firepower, you need it now.
--[ ] 1st Raiding Fleet. They will (in part) get there fastest.
--[ ] 2nd Raiding Fleet. They're not in a frontline system.
-[ ] Who holds Attican Beta? Check all that apply.
--[ ] 2nd Raiding Fleet. To be blunt, they offer the least to the actual, ongoing fight in Maroon Sea.

A slightly heavier response than Concentration of Force. Possibility of encirclement and total destruction of Rachni fleets depending on rolls. Ideal for follow up raid into shadow sea if that's an option.

@PoptartProdigy three plans for submission.
 
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I definitely agree on informing the Alliance, but I would like to send heavier reinforcements. Either all 3 raiding fleets, or 1st Battle and 1-2 raiding fleets.

Yes, the Rachni might well be preparing to attack Attican Beta from Hades Gamma, but that would probably require them getting word back to their space, and that's something we would likely notice.
 
--[ ] Yes. They're impacted by this, and you're a formal member now. This is no longer the time to hold back.
It would be idiotic not to
--[ ] No. This isn't the kind of battle they train to fight, and you have yet to thresh out a joint command structure. There are also the obvious political reasons not to call for help on this particular issue.
This still seems well within our capabilities, no need to make ourselves look any worse for not fortifying MS
 
Lightwhispers said:
I definitely agree on informing the Alliance, but I would like to send heavier reinforcements. Either all 3 raiding fleets, or 1st Battle and 1-2 raiding fleets.
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Yeah. If we aren't sending the first battle fleet we need all three raiding fleets to make up for the fact that a third of each raiding fleet will be joining the battle later. If we are sending the first battle fleet we need to send at least 1st raiding to get their quickly.

After that, it's a question of how likely we think an attack is to happen in Attican Beta. I'd honestly put Attican Beta as the 4th least likely target, behind Ninmah³, Exodus², and Caleston Rift¹. If we really wanted to go all out, we could make an extreme concentration of force plan with 1st Battle, 1st raiding, and 3rd raiding to try and rap up the battle quickly.
 
[ ] Plan [Concentration of Force]

I like this one, AB is already heavily fortified so if it gets attacked there's gonna be time to reinforce it, and I'd like to catch as much of the Rachni fleet out from their defenses as possible. Also gives more time to get the Raiding Fleets out of dock and consolidated. If things go well enough we might even be able to push into Shadow Sea and be able to put off fortifying MS at all for awhile.
 
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[ ] Plan [Wrap It Up]
-[ ] Inform the Alliance?
--[ ] Yes. They're impacted by this, and you're a formal member now. This is no longer the time to hold back.
-[ ] Call for the Terminus Joint Fleets?
--[ ] No. This isn't the kind of battle they train to fight, and you have yet to thresh out a joint command structure. There are also the obvious political reasons not to call for help on this particular issue.
-[ ] Who reinforces Maroon Sea? Check all that apply.
--[ ] 1st Battle Fleet. You need firepower, you need it now.
--[ ] 1st Raiding Fleet. They will (in part) get there fastest.
--[ ] 3rd Raiding Fleet. They're not in a frontline system, and Mordin is one of your greats.
-[ ] Who holds Attican Beta? Check all that apply.
--[ ] 2nd Raiding Fleet. To be blunt, they offer the least to the actual, ongoing fight in Maroon Sea.

I want to get this done quick like. Between the static defenses and the 2nd I think they can hold out long enough for reinforcements in the event of an attack at AB, but either way wrapping up the MS battle sooner is better. No AB fight? Great, less losses, faster finish, better political implications. Yes AB fight? Good, we have/are wrapping up the MS fight sooner, meaning we can send a greater amount of reinforcements sooner, which will be critical if the AB attack is anything more than 1-2 Battle Fleets.
 
I'd much rather not send the 1st Battlefleet. That would involve a much more head on fight which will in turn mean more damage done to our side, which simply isn't needed.
 
UlseDovThur said:
I'd much rather not send the 1st Battlefleet. That would involve a much more head on fight which will in turn mean more damage done to our side, which simply isn't needed.
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The Rachni have three battle fleets on-hand. So I'm pretty sure that the raiding fleets would have to get into a head-on fight at some point, so I think the battle fleet would be a better option since that's what they are formed for.
 
@PoptartProdigy depending on what state we finish this battle in, would there be an option to gate crash into Shadow sea and set one or more of our raiding fleets loose in that cluster?

Randino Treviani said:
[ ] Plan [Extreme Concentration of Force]
-[ ] Inform the Alliance?
--[ ] Yes. They're impacted by this, and you're a formal member now. This is no longer the time to hold back.
-[ ] Call for the Terminus Joint Fleets?
--[ ] No. This isn't the kind of battle they train to fight, and you have yet to thresh out a joint command structure. There are also the obvious political reasons not to call for help on this particular issue.
-[ ] Who reinforces Maroon Sea? Check all that apply.
--[ ] 1st Battle Fleet. You need firepower, you need it now.
--[ ] 1st Raiding Fleet. They will (in part) get there fastest.
--[ ] 2nd Raiding Fleet. They're not in a frontline system.
-[ ] Who holds Attican Beta? Check all that apply.
--[ ] 2nd Raiding Fleet. To be blunt, they offer the least to the actual, ongoing fight in Maroon Sea.

A slightly heavier response than Concentration of Force. Possibility of encirclement and total destruction of Rachni fleets depending on rolls. Ideal for follow up raid into shadow sea if that's an option.
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Third plan for a more ambitious order of battle.
Yatr said:
[ ] Plan [Wrap It Up]
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Egad. I've been ninja'd!!:V
UlseDovThur said:
I'd much rather not send the 1st Battlefleet. That would involve a much more head on fight which will in turn mean more damage done to our side, which simply isn't needed.
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Not really. Just as Suna was able to disengage the 2nd battle fleet the same could be done with the 1st. There is going to be a battle fleet elements to this battle automatically because 2 raiding fleets(a fleets worth of our raiding fleets won't be joining the battle until later) isn't nearly enough.

By nature this fight has to have some degree of head on opposition to the Rachni as we do not control their priorities and can't just leave them entirely free to press towards another relay. The raiding fleets speed is more of a benefit to maneuver around the kinetic barrier bearing fleet and strike at the unshielded fleets behind it than to running some sort of running battle across the cluster since we can't guarantee the Rachni would would follow rather than make for one of the other relays or hold at SS-MS relay.
 
Eldon said:
It would still cripple our ability to protect relays outside our home relay and trade as the back route is much less efficient.
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If we feel like we're gonna lose AB we can then call in reinforcements. That's the whole point of our Alliance. Besides which, MS is only one jump away from AB we can reorganize the defense quickly and easily.
 
Lightwhispers said:
The Rachni have three battle fleets on-hand. So I'm pretty sure that the raiding fleets would have to get into a head-on fight at some point, so I think the battle fleet would be a better option since that's what they are formed for.
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I don't see why they would. They would be more mobile and thus should be able to maneuver as they please. There's nothing in the system to defend and so nothing to lock them down with.

They move in, attack, destroy a few ships while tanking hits on their shields, then leave to recharge shields and vent heat. Rinse and repeat as needed.
Randino Treviani said:
@PoptartProdigy depending on what state we finish this battle in, would there be an option to gate crash into Shadow sea and set one or more of our raiding fleets loose in that cluster?


Third plan for a more ambitious order of battle.

Egad. I've been ninja'd!!:V

Not really. Just as Suna was able to disengage the 2nd battle fleet the same could be done with the 1st. There is going to be a battle fleet elements to this battle automatically because 2 raiding fleets(a fleets worth of our raiding fleets won't be joining the battle until later) isn't nearly enough.

By nature this fight has to have some degree of head on opposition to the Rachni as we do not control their priorities and can't just leave them entirely free to press towards another relay. The raiding fleets speed is more of a benefit to maneuver around the kinetic barrier bearing fleet and strike at the unshielded fleets behind it than to running some sort of running battle across the cluster since we can't guarantee the Rachni would would follow rather than make for one of the other relays or hold at SS-MS relay.
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And why would we need them to follow for a hit and run strategy? If they stay put that's fine and quite frankly I have zero concern about them going through one of our other relays. If their intent was to attack Attican or Caleston, especially Caleston, they would not be coming through Maroon as all it's done is put us on high alert.

No, this attack is purely about testing what our response to an incursion into Maroon Sea is and maybe to give their barriers a test run.

This is also a reason I'd rather not throw our other Battlefleet at this. It would show they can drag our heavy hitters away from Attican by making a move on Maroon. Better to show we're in no rush to deal with them by sending our raiding fleets. And maybe, maybe, that's exactly what they're trying to do, draw off our forces in Attican so they can send their own raid to hit in AB.

No, over reacting to this is exactly what we don't want to do.
 
Anyone interested in sending Mordin through to Shadow Sea and seeing if they've left themselves vulnerable without those three fleets?
 
Not surprised to see this happen. Unhappy, alarmed, but not surprised.

Randino Treviani said:
Well, that's a completely ridiculous thing to manage. design entire new ships around barrier tech and field a battle fleet from them in a little less than 4 years. Oh well.
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Oh, come on.

Realistically? They've probably been prototyping barrier-equipped ships for ten or twenty years, toying with the concept. All that changed in the past 3-4 years is that they designed a Citadel-inspired barrier generator they could plug-and-play into the space their prototype allocated to a bulky, less effective barrier generator of their own. Or that their ongoing design studies of "how to shoehorn a refit barrier generator into an existing ship class" finally came up with something worth trying on a meaningful scale.

They probably didn't have to redesign the ship around it extensively; the barriers may well be suboptimal precisely because they're shoehorned into a suboptimal arrangement because the ship wasn't designed around the barrier generator.

And it's reasonably likely that this is their first combat outing with the new barrier ships on any large scale, because they can credibly threaten us with a single battlefleet of barrier-equipped ships along with a few more fleets of the older ships. That wouldn't be enough force to move the front lines meaningfully on the main fronts, but against us it's a problem. So they throw their first few squadrons of prototypes into an offensive against us where we appear overextended.
 
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PoptartProdigy said:
If you feel you're in a position to give it a shot at the end of this, you can.
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Thank you for the prompt response.
Eldon said:
I am really iffy on doing anything to weaken Attican Beta. If it falls we are going to be isolated again.
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It is unlikely to fall. Mordin, back when he only had 17 martial, was able to defend Attican Beta for more than a day against a battle fleet with normal concentration of stationary defenses. Our stationary defenses are over covered at the moment. In the unlikely event of an attack(there are at least 3 systems which represent more significant strategic targets than Attican Beta) it can hold long enough to recall a fleet from maroon sea to reinforce it.
UlseDovThur said:
No, this attack is purely about testing what our response to an incursion into Maroon Sea is and maybe to give their barriers a test run.
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This is a ridiculous notion. An incursion for the sake of testing our response would have been limited to a single fleet since anything more weakens their lines, and they would have had barrier fleet go first if they were just testing shields. It's highly likely this wasn't just a test of our responses.

UlseDovThur said:
This is also a reason I'd rather not throw our other Battlefleet at this. It would show they can drag our heavy hitters away from Attican by making a move on Maroon. Better to show we're in no rush to deal with them by sending our raiding fleets. And maybe, maybe, that's exactly what they're trying to do, draw off our forces in Attican so they can send their own raid to hit in AB.

No, over reacting to this is exactly what we don't want to do.
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This places too much emphasis on the importance of our response, relying to much about this being about the maroon sea rather than a higher priority cluster, and about the commonwealth over terminus. The more likely target is Caleston Rift, as one of the most critical relay hubs of the war, which is connected to an untouched Rachni system(maroon sea has been raided extensively)

Tidelore said:
Anyone interested in sending Mordin through to Shadow Sea and seeing if they've left themselves vulnerable without those three fleets?
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I think the safer move is too reinforce Marroon sea and encircle or pincer them between battle fleets and two raiding fleets and use one of the battle fleets to gate crash post battle.

I think the best thing to do is get 1st battle fleet and at least the 1st raiding to Maroon see for an early concentration of force to cut casualties by dividing their fire between battle fleets and bringing more dreadnoughts to the fight to make the most of ranged battle advantage against two thirds of the enemies present.

If we are willing to lower the Attican Beta guard a little more, we could possibly flank with our raiding fleets and starts unloading on the barrier lacking Rachni vessels and thin out their screening vessels further.
 
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UlseDovThur said:
I don't see why they would. They would be more mobile and thus should be able to maneuver as they please. There's nothing in the system to defend and so nothing to lock them down with.

They move in, attack, destroy a few ships while tanking hits on their shields, then leave to recharge shields and vent heat. Rinse and repeat as needed.
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The reason why is that we cannot give ground indefinitely. We will, at some point, have to stand and fight, or lose the cluster. And even if we win, your strategy would likely result in more of the barrier-equipped Rachni ships making it home.
 
hmm.. It's been about 2 years since the last update before these two.. and I'm trying to get a grasp on the situation of postion before I suggest something.

Which leads to a few questions I want to ask to try and refresh everyone's memories.
1: do we have a map, or a description of a map, that outlines where these two systems are on our front line?
2: which is needed to answer the second question... Is the Maroon sea a vital system we need to hold, or is it just a system we were investigating?
3: if it's not a vital/core system for us, is the cost of fighting this battle worth keeping this system, or would falling aback be a valid tactic in light of this new development (the shields).
 
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