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Taylor Hebert and Her Rather Sad Life [Worm/The Gamer/D&D3.5]

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mrttao said:
Citation needed.
He said walking away would be a childish tantrum, he didn't say anything about "if you first give her a verbal lashing it won't be". That would obviously make it an even bigger tantrum
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I literally don't care. I think the whole tantrum line is a bunch of bullshit and I don't care if that's the outcome, both IC and OOC walking away from a workplace where the person who will be in charge has shown them selves to be a petty minded shit that tries to pull a dishonest bait and switch on you from the get go is rational and anything but a tantrum.

Once again Piggots representative explicitly told us that our conditions were reasonable. Now Piggot is shitting all over the only reason Taylor specified she'd be willing to go to the interview.

It's a bait and switch.
 
mrttao said:
you are kidding, right?
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Nope; maybe the tone I'm imagining Taylor speak NSMS's vote is different than what you're imagining? This must be what LordsFire felt like.

In any case, if Piggot get offended and swears eternal enmity towards Taylor for pointing out how unprofessional she was being and explaining why she no longer considers being a Ward to be a good idea and then leaving after MM convinced her to come in to discuss the the nonstandard joining requirement, then she's being too sensitive. Irony? Then again, bullies rarely like being called on their behaviors, so maybe you're right in that it would offend Piggot.

For those more familiar with DD magic, is it possible to craft something which would block master's effect and maybe Ziz's scream effect? That, as much as healing items would make her invaluable to the PRT. And maybe something which undo mental contamination. Or maybe I'm looking too far forward here. But it is a munchkin quest. Hmmm.
 
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DragonParadox said:
My point was that Pigot would have no way to know about Taylor being a fan of Armsmaster & MM or that she was unusually well adjusted considering her recent Trigger (on the surface at least). As far as she knows Taylor's only significant emotional investment towards a "hero" formerly under her command is her hatred of SS.

In that light (and considering Pigot's own culpability in the SS debacle) does it strike you as remotely professional or wise to start a recruitment discussion as Pigot did?

Frankly Pigot has shown herself as unprofessional and prone to be lead by her emotions or so completely lacking in social competence that she should not be left outside without a minder. Under the circumstances the rational choice becomes to never place oneself under her command and no amount of fangirling over MM or Armsmaster can compensate fore that.

Incidentally as a Ward Taylor would have to sign a non-disclosure agreement regarding the identities of heroes and former heroes per Willbow's WoG so no we could not blackmail Pigot as a Ward.
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No its just that people who REALLY want to join won't be put off by someone being a bit sharp with them, if your desire to be a hero is so fragile that someone being mean to you is enough to stop you then you'd make a shitty hero so good riddance to bad rubbish and who's to say Piggot even knows who Taylor is?

Has she even been told who Adrastea is other than some hotshot who thinks she can be a Ward and get all the perks of a protectorate member without being one?

We've also been told that her response is considered "reasonable" by the QM considering we're asking for over a hundred thousand dollars and other stuff.
 
1986ctcel said:
No its just that people who REALLY want to join won't be put off by someone being a bit sharp with them, if your desire to be a hero is so fragile that someone being mean to you is enough to stop you then you'd make a shitty hero so good riddance to bad rubbish and who's to say Piggot even knows who Taylor is?
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If she does not know who Taylor is then either she or MM dropped the ball so hard it is currently making a tunnel towards the center of the planet.

As for "good residence to bad rubbish" as desperate as the PRT is for parahumans especially in BB that is a truly stupid attitude when a coldly rational approach does not actially cost anything.
 
I wonder how I missed LordsFire's post (well ok, its not hard to wonder considering the sheer amount of pages here)
Lordsfire vote is actually quite good, It is certainly way better than NSMS in that it does not personally attack piggot (no calling her a shit director)
It also doesn't commit us either way, instead just demanding an apology.
[x] LordsFire

sandmanwake said:
Nope; maybe the tone I'm imagining Taylor speak NSMS's vote is different than what you're imagining?
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There is no tone in which saying "no offense but you suck at your job" is not offensive
 
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The Stormbringer said:
:cry: I just want the next chapter, regardless of what we get.
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Yeah. I wish the votes would just be locked so this would end. I know that we are just repeating whats been said. And resaid. And rereresaid.

And yet, I just can't stay away from the thread. Argh!


1986ctcel said:
No its just that people who REALLY want to join won't be put off by someone being a bit sharp with them, if your desire to be a hero is so fragile that someone being mean to you is enough to stop you then you'd make a shitty hero so good riddance to bad rubbish and who's to say Piggot even knows who Taylor is?
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I am fine with not joining, since surprisingly enough, Taylor can be a good hero without PRT. Better even.

Has she even been told who Adrastea is other than some hotshot who thinks she can be a Ward and get all the perks of a protectorate member without being one?
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So MM arranges a meeting with the director, and does not tell the director anything about the person she is meeting? Like oh the fact that said ward-candidate very recently triggered due to the actions of another ward(SS), which could be blamed on Piggots negligence?

Yeah, found another reason not to join PRT. Utter incompetence. Thanks.


sandmanwake said:
For those more familiar with DD magic, is it possible to craft something which would block master's effect and maybe Ziz's scream effect? That, as much as healing items would make her invaluable to the PRT. And maybe something which undo mental contamination. Or maybe I'm looking too far forward here. But it is a munchkin quest. Hmmm.
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I think so. However unless something like "protect from evil/good/law/chaos" works, then we probably have a lot of leveling to do before we can do that.
 
DragonParadox said:
Context is everything. Taylor is a parahuman who Triggered due to bullying. Under the circumstances the "hard sell" goes from dubious in value to outright idiocy.
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Wait, wait, does Piggot actually know? In that case:

[X] I'm worth more money because I'm willing to sign a non-disclosure form on your cover-up of Sophia Hess's bullying campaign at Winslow.
 
Datakim said:
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That is not quite what the QM said in that post. He said that lordsfire plan is not a tantram. That is not giving a license to say anything we want to her without it being possible for it to ever be a tantrum so long as we say something

lordsfire plan has us demanding an apology without insulting her nor committing to leaving (nor committing to joining either). it is in no way a tantrum just like QM said.

NSMS takes the "just leave" plan and adds "first insult her" before it. it takes a tantrum and makes it a bigger one.
 
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mrttao said:
I wonder how I missed LordsFire's post (well ok, its not hard to wonder considering the sheer amount of pages here)
Lordsfire vote is actually quite good, It is certainly way better than NSMS in that it does not personally attack piggot (no calling her a shit director)
It also doesn't commit us either way, instead just demanding an apology.
[] LordsFire

There is no tone in which saying "no offense but you suck at your job" is not offensive
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Interesting. Theres been LOTS of pages, but I think I recall NSMS making his vote specifically to be less aggressive than LordsFire. I guess this is another example about how people look at plans and see different tones. Most thought LordsFires plan was horribly aggressive or somesuch, and you think its not.

EDIT: Or was that someone else? Anyone recall? Theres been way too many damn plans.

EDIT2: No wait. It was because people decided that if Piggot interrupted our introduction which is a basic social courtesy, she probably would not let Taylor speak LordsFires full plan. NSMSs plan is shorter.

Really, they are all pretty similar in the end.


Bailey Matutine said:
Wait, wait, does Piggot actually know? In that case:

[] I'm worth more money because I'm willing to sign a non-disclosure form on your cover-up of Sophia Hess's bullying campaign at Winslow.
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I joked above about incompetence, but I would presume she knows. Because seriously, if no one informed her then thats just. Thats. Fuck.

Regardless, for this to have any effect we would have to expose Sophia as SS, which would backfire on us badly.
 
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mrttao said:
That is not quite what the QM said in that post. He said that lordsfire plan is not a tantram. That is not giving a license to say anything we want to her without it being possible for it to ever be a tantrum so long as we say something

lordsfire plan has us demanding an apology without insulting her nor committing to leaving (nor committing to joining either). it is in no way a tantrum just like QM said.

NSMS takes the "just leave" plan and adds "first insult her" before it. it takes a tantrum and makes it a bigger one.
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Honestly considering her background and current position Pigot is likely to take a demand for an apology as an insult anyway.
 
DragonParadox said:
You are voting to blatently attempt to blackmail a law enforcement officer while most likely being recorded... That may not be the best idea.
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"We both know you're corrupt and will cover up wrongdoing of your subordinates. If I'm going to be one of them, I actually appreciate that. But I did catch you, and, since you're corrupt, I expect to be bribed."
 
Datakim said:
Interesting. Theres been LOTS of pages, but I think I recall NSMS making his vote specifically to be less aggressive than LordsFire
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aggressive =! insulting
My problem was never with being aggressive. My problem is that NSMS takes "just leave" vote and then slots in "but first insult her. Make sure to say "no offense" before you insult her by telling her she cannot be trusted to do her job".
Lordsfire vote is aggressive, but it is not offensive

DragonParadox said:
Honestly considering her background and current position Pigot is likely to take a demand for an apology as an insult anyway.
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That is possible, but then she would be the unreasonable one.
 
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Datakim said:
Interesting. Theres been LOTS of pages, but I think I recall NSMS making his vote specifically to be less aggressive than LordsFire. I guess this is another example about how people look at plans and see different tones. Most thought LordsFires plan was horribly aggressive or somesuch, and you think its not.
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Indeed, I was one of the ones who found LordsFire's vote to be more aggressive than NSMS despite liking LordsFire's vote initially. As I noted in a previous post, the more I read LordsFire vote, the more I was expecting an epic rap battle to break out next.

Piggot: How dare you challenge my Director's tone,
I'm the boss of the Wards,
Put your daddy on the phone ....
 
mrttao said:
Actually she is not negligent, she is just grossly overworked.
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Wasn't some of that her own fault? Or was it just fanon that she removed Ward oversight from the Protectorate so that she'd look over them herself then failed to do it properly? I've got to admit that I've only skip read parts of canon Worm as I hear it's pretty dark and I'd rather not purposely depress myself. If it is as dark as some people say, it's pretty awesome that it can give rise to so many entertaining or even funny fanfiction stories.
 
mrttao said:
Actually she is not negligent, she is just grossly overworked and didn't imagine that there would be a spontaneous conspiracy by teachers to hide the wrongdoing of her subordinates from her
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Sorry overwork does not fly as an excuse for me in this instance. If she could not handle the rigors of the job she should have quit or demanded an assistant. Responsibility for something as horrible as Sophia did with the complicity of her PRT handler also falls on the Director.
 
sandmanwake said:
Wasn't some of that her own fault? Or was it just fanon that she removed Ward oversight from the Protectorate so that she'd look over them herself then failed to do it properly? I've got to admit that I've only skip read parts of canon Worm as I hear it's pretty dark and I'd rather not purposely depress myself. If it is as dark as some people say, it's pretty awesome that it can give rise to so many entertaining or even funny fanfiction stories.
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I think so, though after reading so many fanfics its very easy to mix fanon and canon these days.

But yeah, I think BB is an exception when it comes to the wards and they are under Piggot which is abnormal. Which in my opinion makes it her responsibility and her fault. If she was too overworked to do her job properly, then she should not have taken the job that directors normally don't have.

Now that things have gone to hell due to her negligence at the job she wanted for herself, its too late to cry "oh, I was overworked". If the wards had done something wondrous under her, she would have got the credit. That also means she gets the blame.
 
sandmanwake said:
Wasn't some of that her own fault? Or was it just fanon that she removed Ward oversight from the Protectorate so that she'd look over them herself then failed to do it properly? I've got to admit that I've only skip read parts of canon Worm as I hear it's pretty dark and I'd rather not purposely depress myself. If it is as dark as some people say, it's pretty awesome that it can give rise to so many entertaining or even funny fanfiction stories.
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... I am honestly not sure anymore. too many taylor quests make it hard to distinguish fanon from canon

That being said, even if it was true it is not really negligent on her part since said oversight is expensive and time consuming and she has a limited budget and manpower...
Being forced into a school environment should mean that there is already oversight on them from the teachers and faculty; and as such renders such special additional oversight a redundant waste of taxpayer money.
It is really hard to imagine that the school will form a conspiracy to hide the wrongdoing of a student
People always call for impractical amounts of oversight whenever shit hits the fan for that specific manner, despite leaving open all other methods of attack (see airplane security not stopping train bombing, see both not being helpful in the case of poisoning water supplies, etc)

DragonParadox said:
Sorry overwork does not fly as an excuse for me in this instance. If she could not handle the rigors of the job she should have quit or demanded an assistant. Responsibility for something as horrible as Sophia did with the complicity of her PRT handler also falls on the Director.
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An assistant, someone who assists with a particular job... let's say, for example, a PRT handler?
So what is she going to do when her assistant is colluding in a conspiracy with an entire school's worth of faculty as well as many students all to cover up misbehavior of a ward?
Getting an assistant doesn't work because it is her assistant on that specific matter that is part of the conspiracy. She has to instead use her personal time to LOOK for such conspiracies in the first place, which aside from being something that is really hard to imagine, is also extremely time consuming. Hence overworked
 
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mrttao said:
An assistant, someone who assists with a particular job... let's say, for example, a PRT handler?
So what is she going to do when her assistant is colluding in a conspiracy with an entire school's worth of faculty as well as many students all to cover up misbehavior of a ward?
Getting an assistant doesn't work because it is her assistant on that specific matter that is part of the conspiracy. She has to instead use her personal time to LOOK for such conspiracies in the first place, which aside from being something that is really hard to imagine, is also extremely time consuming. Hence overworked
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Then she should have either:
  1. Improved her hiring/promotion practices and had more redundant verification going on.
  2. Retired and let someone with fewer health issues and thus more time take over.
I refuse to let Pigot off of any moral culpability on the grounds that her job is just too damn hard for anyone to do since that is far too convenient of an excuse.
 
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DragonParadox said:
Improved her hiring/promotion practices
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She didn't hire an entire school worth of conspirators

she maybe at most hired one person, the PRT handler in question. And it is highly unlikely that she even hired that person either. the PRT is a branch of the police, she was assigned to that district and had nothing to indicate that the handler in question needed firing until this incident.

As a director she can't just randomly fire people without cause.

DragonParadox said:
Retired and let someone with fewer health issues and thus more time take over.
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Health issues =! doesn't work full time.
She works ridiculous amounts of overtime, far more than most healthy people do
 
mrttao said:
She didn't hire an entire school worth of conspirators

she maybe at most hired one person, the PRT handler in question. And it is highly unlikely that she even hired that person either. the PRT is a branch of the police, she was assigned to that district and had nothing to indicate that the handler in question needed firing until this incident.

As a director she can't just randomly fire people without cause.


Health issues =! doesn't work full time.
She works ridiculous amounts of overtime, far more than most healthy people do
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Procedures could have been put in place to offer verification for more than that one PRT official of SS's behavior. Bureaucratic cover-ups are hardly a novel issue and the solution would have been inspection and review which would not necessarily have to have been done by Pigot herself.

Hell just rotating personnel through the position would, have likely caught the problem.
 
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