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Strategic Arms Quest 3/2: Armor Edition

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Would NotGermanys Becker Type M2 20 mm cannon be enough? Its origin of Oerlikon 20 mm. Actually, Oerlikon 20 mm will not be created in this timeline, as that was direct effect of German loss of WW I.
Or 2 cm Flak 30/38/Flakvierling or 3.7 cm Flak 18/36/37/43-NotGermany equivalent?
 
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kpkdktswnw2015 said:
Would NotGermanys Becker Type M2 20 mm cannon be enough? Its origin of Oerlikon 20 mm. Actually, Oerlikon 20 mm will not be created in this timeline, as that was direct effect of German loss of WW I.
Or 2 cm Flak 30/38/Flakvierling or 3.7 cm Flak 18/36/37/43-NotGermany equivalent?
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The 3.7cm would be in the realm of what I think is acceptable, the 20s are 20s and thus don't really offer the range I want.

Though the QM has indicated that the planes are a lot squisher than I'm assuming right now. But a good large caliber autocannon is a benefit in itself. And the Marine will also thank us.
 
So because you're all doing a lot of discussing and not much voting, I'll be posting the current shell section chart for your perusal

11.5x86 Dreysen
12.7x99 Kubachi
13.2 Irromic (standard light AT cartage and heavy machine gun round)
14.5 Werser
15x82 Irromic (standard Luftwaffe HMG/cannon round)
19x110mm Lightning Knife
20x102 Irromic (The venerable 20mm tank autocannon)
25mm Werser
28x165mm Short Thunder
28x210mm Long Thunder Straight
 
[X] Work on the Weapons Specifications
-[X] 28x210mm Long Thunder Straight
A few people have stressed the importance of range. This seems a potent round that should be able to be fired at decent rates of fire (especially with multibarrel/multigun shenanigans).
 
BigBombR said:
[X] Work on the Weapons Specifications
-[X] 28x210mm Long Thunder Straight
A few people have stressed the importance of range. This seems a potent round that should be able to be fired at decent rates of fire (especially with multibarrel/multigun shenanigans).
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We are allowed to develop a new round. That is in fact what I aim to do.
 
I don't think that we, an army selection officer, should be developing new rounds.
New
[X] Comparissons are needed
-[X] 28x210mm Long Thunder Straight
-[X] 15x82 Irromic (standard Luftwaffe HMG/cannon round)
 
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Full metal jacket bullet with hardened steel penetrator core. One shot to the engine and plane starts going down. Something like 7.92×94mm Patronen but upscaled to 20x102 Irromic.
 
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No, what we need is HE-T. Because then we don't need to hope for an engine hit, basically any hit with that is going to lead to the enemy returning to base, if not going down (in pieces). Smashing the engine is the least effective way to down a plane.
 
Because it's the hardest to accomplish. A 30mm HE has a good chance of tearing a massive hole into the fuselage or damaging the wing enough that the plane can no longer fly. Basically, it does catastrophic damage everywhere, while a AP projectile has to hit either the engine or the pilot to do catastrophic damage.
 
To be honest we shouldn't coach our statistics purely on kills, a light AA piece which we could develope with a GPM isn't supposed to down planes, it's supposed to scare them away, as such tracer rounds with either a secondary incendiary or HE filler are best for them. If we go for a medium piece we would want a HE/burst round with a coloured filler for identification on accuracy and a larger copy of the system for heavy AA the work.
 
I plan to stick with the 28x210mm Long Thunder Straight. Big enough caliber that a HE round will do significant damage, small enough to fire rapidly and I suspect that one of the main differences between the Short Thunder and Long Thunder Straight is muzzle velocity, which needs to be as high as possible. Also, at this point planes probably aren't heavily armored, so HE-T seems more useful than AP. So I'd push for a Long Thunder Straight HE round. Being able to fire a tiny hole through three planes lined up is less useful than blowing a big chunk out of one. And the tracer part should help with aiming. Hitting flying targets is hard, so lets make it as easy as possible.
 
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depending how heavy the auto cannon for the 28x210mm Long Thunder Straight is, I want to get 2 guns. the 28mm for heavy aa and a smaller caliber for light AA that we can strap duo/quad mounts on to the backs of transport trucks alla the m3 half tracks.
 
Guys, we don't even know what the Thunder cartridges are. For all we know they might be blackpowder cartridges.

EDIT: Correction, it seems to be Poudre B based. Which, for those that don't know what that is, is literally the first smokeless powder ever made. It's an ancient round that's likely to be pretty low pressure compared to a more modern one.
 
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kpkdktswnw2015 said:
Plane without engine will fall so how it is the least effective?
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Winged_One² said:
Because it's the hardest to accomplish. A 30mm HE has a good chance of tearing a massive hole into the fuselage or damaging the wing enough that the plane can no longer fly. Basically, it does catastrophic damage everywhere, while a AP projectile has to hit either the engine or the pilot to do catastrophic damage.
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this, so much so this.

If you look at modern AA autocannon loads today, you find that people have pretty much moved away from AP rounds for AA work. the only applications where AP is a thing are antimissile point defence guns, like CIWS and Goalkeeper.

kpkdktswnw2015 said:
That only depends on how many guns are firing.
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Sure, but this is a self propelled AA gun for the Army, you're not going to be doing things like the USN and having literal dozens, even hundreds of AA guns, on a battleship. There's only so many guns you can carry, and only so much ammo you have with you. Yes, there is no such thing as too much ammo,but there is such a thong as "too much ammo to carry."

Even 30mm or 40mm HE blowing up at your engine is still going to cause damage. If you're really concerned about penetration, then just make like the Cold War USN and mix AP with HE (but even then they had more HE than AP in their belts).
 
ok we will need details on the cartridges we have available or do we just request for MG/AC that can fulfill our RFQ and see what cartridges show up?
 
If we give them free hand instead of dictating the caliber from existing ones, we got a decent chance of new calibers showing up (or rather, almost assured I think).
 
Winged_One² said:
If we give them free hand instead of dictating the caliber from existing ones, we got a decent chance of new calibers showing up (or rather, almost assured I think).
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would this be a good thing or bad? if we do not have a suitable cartridge for the higher calibers we will need a new caliber any ways so may as well see what the open market gives us. If we must we can specify that we want a AC with minimum caliber 25mm and other specifications we want, preferably using an already existing cartridge used in the army.
 
khang said:
would this be a good thing or bad? if we do not have a suitable cartridge for the higher calibers we will need a new caliber any ways so may as well see what the open market gives us. If we must we can specify that we want a AC with minimum caliber 25mm and other specifications we want, preferably using an already existing cartridge used in the army.
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Of the cartirdges mentioned, only ones marked "Irromic" are in current armed service use. The Dreysen round was originally designed as a game round, and Lightning Knife was designed as a Monstrous Game round for the Gerbsjaegers when they have to go and cull some of the deep valleys. Not very many people know what's in the depths of the northern boarder mountain range, and the ones that do know are dead or Gerbersjaegers. Short and Long Thunder, meanwhile, were designed as anti-armor rounds for the Nylasalanders after the Ostafrika War. Short Thunder is the man portable version, while Long Thunder is fired out of an utterly massive toggle-locked autocannon built off the Mg.51 pattern scaled up to the size of PRAISE THE SUN and mounted on something vaugely similar to the Tortise with about ten times as big a suspension and re-engined around a flat six.

edoot:
 
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Winged_One² said:
So they are the ones who got stuck with Adolf Furrer?
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Yep. The guy loves it there, and nobody blinks twice at his stuff except for Tangiyakans, who still import all their shit from the Metropole and have a thriving culture. The Voltans and Nylassanders love him to death though, because they managed to adopt a semiautomatic infantry rifle before the Irromic Army did thanks to him. It's not in wide adoption yet since it actually used 6.5 Irrome like a sane person and the ammunition plants are slow to tool over, but it is making waves when the Seebatalions started complaining that the Askari were better armed than them.
 
[X] Work on the Weapons Specifications
-[X]A Shell firing gun of at least 30mm caliber with a muzzle velocity of 850m/s. Ammunition should be fed through a belt or an uninterrupted clip feed, not through magazines or other things that halt the firing. The gun should be able to fire at least 70 rounds in the first minute, using up to 2 loaders, spare ammunition lying next to them.
 
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