Stark Quest 2.0: The Search for Shinies

The thing is 200 is a lot, and I am unsure if we need mind 4 right now.

Remember that we can get mind 4 at any time, but we need to get Will and Vitality both to 10 before Harlon reaches full strength with OP. Theres a timelimit there.

In truth, I wish we would reach 8 in Will already so we could start the process of raising that to 10.

@Mazrick, any hints on how we might improve Will? :)

Also, how would we improve Vitality anyway (assuming we want to reach Vitality 8 before using XP).
 
The thing is 200 is a lot, and I am unsure if we need mind 4 right now.

Remember that we can get mind 4 at any time, but we need to get Will and Vitality both to 10 before Harlon reaches full strength with OP. Theres a timelimit there.

In truth, I wish we would reach 8 in Will already so we could start the process of raising that to 10.

@Mazrick, any hints on how we might improve Will? :)

Also, how would we improve Vitality anyway (assuming we want to reach Vitality 8 before using XP).

The earlier we boost the mind magic understanding the faster it pays off though given the way Accelerate and focus boost learning rates.
 
Channeling is Vit + Will right?

Will- 7.7
Vitality- 7.1

Assuming we naturally grind will to 8 would need 400xp to put that at 10 and 600xp to get Vit to 10 so yea. Although we would hit 12 will I believe due to the dire wolf?

Yeah, but the direwolf bonus is not permanent and does not increase channeling strength directly as per GM.

edit: Also not sure how much time we have.

Still, increasing Will would likely have other benefits.

@Mazrick, any special benefits from Harlon reaching peak human Willpower?
 
Last edited:
Also, how would we improve Vitality anyway (assuming we want to reach Vitality 8 before using XP).
:p

In all serious, a more serious regular work-our routine couldn't hurt - a super basic one was enough for our pathetic strength, something regular could up our Vit. If we keep shaving time off our required sleep, that wouldn't be hard to work in.

We probably don't have the time to see a general gain like that though. Looks like XP it is.
 
How long will it take Harlon to reach his full power and for the strength to be set in stone anyway? How long do we have to raise the stats before its too late?
He'll advance like a normal male channeler unless you force him, so you might get 1-2 years to reach your max. Maybe shorter, maybe longer. Depends on the dice.

Although we would hit 12 will I believe due to the dire wolf?
Midnight only offers +1 to Will, Strength, Vitality, and Dexterity.


EDIT: GM's shouldn't comment without verifying first.
@Mazrick, any hints on how we might improve Will? :)
Actually, practice Time magic. Specifically Manipulation. There are other ways(which you can figure out IC), but that's the most efficient.
Also, how would we improve Vitality anyway (assuming we want to reach Vitality 8 before using XP).
Set up a real exercise regime focused on upping that specific stat.
 
Last edited:
In all serious, a more serious regular work-our routine couldn't hurt - a super basic one was enough for our pathetic strength, something regular could up our Vit. If we keep shaving time off our required sleep, that wouldn't be hard to work in.

We probably don't have the time to see a general gain like that though. Looks like XP it is.

Yeah. Will has been slowly rising, and thats a stat we are using a lot due to the mind magics. I doubt we could get Vitality to 8 in realistic timespan. Same with trying to increase Will from 8 to 9 without XP.

Still, we are close to 8 Will, so I guess Will 8->10 and Vit 7->10 makes most sense. Which is 1K XP.
 
He'll advance like a normal male channeler unless you force him, so you might get 1-2 years to reach your max. Maybe shorter, maybe longer. Depends on the dice.

Midnight only offers +1 to Will, Strength, Vitality, and Dexterity.

When did that change? When the wolf was voted on, it was +2 will and +2 vit with nothing to strength and dexterity.
 
I probably would have voted for the teleporter in that case, since Strength and Dexterity are pretty useless for mage type character. I recall voting for the large wolf since it gave big bonuses to vitality and will (both who apply to channeling exhaustion).
 
Yeah, my bad. I had it wrong in my notes, and then I looked back at the vote. +2 to Will and Vitality, but doesn't add into your channeling pool.
 
Last edited:
@Mazrick

I was going to plan how to add learning time magic to my spreadsheet but I'm seeing any mechanics for how learning that works. Am I missing something obvious or is that something not available yet?

Edit: Also, I wonder if Harlon could use time magic via observation on himself to see himself in the future and how he manipulates his own mental states to basically gank his own future knowledge of mind magic for his own use?

*grin*
 
Last edited:
I do want to talk to the host regardless, since she might be someone important.

Agreed. I just assume since the option wasn't offered that there might be a reason for it - like she's out for a few days due to having also suffered Tavar's precog backlash.

Also, @Enjou, make sure our Senses (and maybe focus, though I think we are probably running low on MP?) augment is on active. Maybe we can get some hints from her body language or somesuch.

That's already in there, along with Focus.


@Mazrick - Have the riots died down enough that Harlon can have someone go get the necessarily ingredients for the blood oath?


@All - changing/adding a few things:

1. Adding in a blindfold - it'll make the reveal more dramatic.
2. Adding in a question about the artifacts she had. I know she didn't know about the observation artifact, but she my know about the other one.
3. Adding in a question about if she knows how Illyrio knew who we were.
4. Adding in a question about if she knows anything about Drogo to see if he's not mundane.
 
She lied about being bound.

She stopped answering questions, thus she could choose not to answer. Another lie, and one she would have revealed even without Ithroens info.

Not necessarily. She could have closed the communication channel or knocked herself unconscious to avoid hearing the subsequent questions Jon was trying to ask.

Technical truth, but lies by omission IMHO. Forsaken are not demons or related to them based on Ithroens words about them being artificial constructs.

Incorrect. Forsaken are understood to be a category of demons by mages. The Forsaken are related to conventional demons, possibly as their creators.

Jon is male, and as such Tavar could not teach him. Another lie.

That's not correct. As I've previously pointed out, a woman can teach a man to channel, but a man can't teach a woman, as long as the woman knows how to link and has experience weaving Saidin. It's quite possible that Tavar does know this.

A lie of omission, since it warps reality according to the pattern, though admittedly this does generally help the ta'veren.

Not necessarily. Rand demonstrated that it was possible for a sufficiently competent Ta'veren to consciously direct the effects they had on the Pattern.

Also, unfortunately we have no idea that Harlon himself is a ta'veren. Unless Tavar can detect it. Some forsaken in WoT had the ability to detect ta'veren from the effect they have on the surounding reality. I could see an observer forsaken being adept at this.

There's a Talent that allows people to directly detect that people were Ta'veren. Logain had it.

"True value"? Does that mean Dany does not know how powerful that ability is, or that the ter'angreal does something else more significant?

Or Daenerys was never taught about Time Magic at all, so doesn't know what Observation can do.

We probably revealed too much. Dunno what to do now? If we could say something that would make our previous question plausible, that might work. Perhaps we could try to speak the truth partially? Tell her that Jorah was spying on the targs for Robert in hope of getting a pardon. Tell her that we are from Westeros and that Jorah stopped sending reports a while back, and we were sent to study the situation to find out whats happening here as a result.

Could work.
 
Harlon is obviously special!

---

Anyway, since it looks like we can't perform the blood oath now, we should talk to the host first (now), then go out to buy stuff and check Drogos mansion, then return and talk to Dany (and perform the oath).

Any ideas about questions.

Heres a few preliminary ideas.

[] Reassure the host that she is safe, but also warn her against doing anything violent.
-[] Assuming she shows no signs of hostility, try to be as kind and gentle as possible. She might be a totally ignorant victim. Still, be ready for anything.


(Below assumes she is innocent and does not react with hostility)

[] Ask her what her name is and where she comes from.
-[] Does she have any family or friends that would miss her? Husband? Children?
-[] Introduce ourself and tell her we came to save our brother from Illyrio.
-[] Tell her the current situation, and apologise for not being able to let her go right now. But then point out that its as much for her protection as its ours. If Jorah or Drogo found her, they might react badly.

[] Ask her if she was aware while Tavar was in control of her.

[] Ask her if she understands what happened to her and if she knows what the forsaken are.
-[] Explain the forsaken and their use of hosts if she does not know.

[] Tell her that we have bound Tavar, and that she won't have to worry. We won't give her back to Tavar. She is safe now.


(if she saw and heard everything while Tavar was in control)

[] Ask her if she would be willing to tell us things she saw while Tavar was controlling her. Apologize for the necessity, but tell her that it could be very important.
-[] Ask how she was captured by Tavar in the first place
-[] Ask her if she saw Tavar use magic, and whether she understood it and if she is capable of using it herself now.
-[] Ask if she saw anything that she believes it would be important we know?

[] Tell her that we have Dany and Viserys as prisoners too. Ask if she knows what Tavar taught Dany, and how skilled Dany is?
-[] Anything else she knows about Dany that we should be aware of?

[] Tell her that we are going out to purchase supplies. Ask her if she wants or needs anything.
-[] Promise that we will do our best to help her return home as soon as possible.
 
That's not correct. As I've previously pointed out, a woman can teach a man to channel, but a man can't teach a woman, as long as the woman knows how to link and has experience weaving Saidin. It's quite possible that Tavar does know this.

Yes, and after you said that, I supplied a quote from the author and quotes from the books proving you wrong.

A female can LINK with a male, but they cannot teach channeling saidin.

Not necessarily. Rand demonstrated that it was possible for a sufficiently competent Ta'veren to consciously direct the effects they had on the Pattern.

Really, where?

He claims he can do it with Cadsuane (stop her heart) but we never actually see him do it. His later feats are by direct admission the pattern doing nothing but good stuff, because the DO supplies all the bad. Not Rand directly controlling ta'veren.
 
Yes, and after you said that, I supplied a quote from the author and quotes from the books proving you wrong.

A female can LINK with a male, but they cannot teach channeling saidin.

And you're still incorrect based on what we actually saw in the books. How is it possible that a woman couldn't teach a man how to channel Saidin when we know for absolutely certain that she can demonstrate the weaves to him and so he can copy them?

We saw this when Semhirage seized saidin through Rand and channeled it, making comments about how the male way of weaving was strange, which demonstrates it was her who was doing the Weaving, and that she knew what to do, and understood it well enough to compare weaving it to weaving Saidar.

Really, where?

He claims he can do it with Cadsuane (stop her heart) but we never actually see him do it. His later feats are by direct admission the pattern doing nothing but good stuff, because the DO supplies all the bad. Not Rand directly controlling ta'veren.

Where he lights his pipe at the very end.

I don't recall verifying that it was a ter'angreal. Also, she's a liar who lies.

Didn't Ithroen tell us that?
 
Last edited:
And you're still incorrect based on what we actually saw in the books. How is it possible that a woman couldn't teach a man how to channel Saidin when we know for absolutely certain that she can demonstrate the weaves to him and so he can copy them?

No. When a channeler of 1 sex is linked with the other, they draw power from the other but still channel the way they regularly do.

For example, when Grady (Perrins asha'man) links with with the Aiel Wise ones, he creates gateways as a male does. This also works for a female.

Infact, there is only one example in the entire series where we see a female channel saidin-style. This is when Semirhage has Rand collared, and due to the unnatural link created by the a'dam, she is in control of his channeling but not TRULY linked. When she tortures Min with OP, Semirhage says:

He righted himself by her command, the room growing more steady, the nausea retreating. And then he began to form weaves, complicated ones of Spirit and Fire.

"Yes," Semirhage said, almost to herself. "Now, if I can remember... The male way of doing this is so odd, sometimes."

Rand made the weaves, then pushed them toward Min. "No!" he screamed as he did so. "Not that!"

"Ah, so you see," Semirhage said. "You weren't so difficult to break after all."

In short, a female can teach a man ONLY if she knows how saidin is woven. Simply linking and weaving stuff is not sufficient (because its woven saidar-style, and won't work when the male tries it alone without the link).

Now this is certainly possible if that female has spent a LOT of time learning how saidin is woven, and she actually knows how saidin is woven directly. In this case, links obviously work as a teaching tool. This also would work in reverse however, (if a man has spent lots of time learning how saidar is weaved). But if not, linking won't help. Apparently Ithroen is not familiar with how saidar is woven, so we have no reason to believe Tavar would be familiar with Saidin either.

Where he lights his pipe at the very end.

This is after Perrin basically confirms Rand is no longer a ta'veren.

Rands ability is unknown, but most likely something to do with his exposure to the reality outside the pattern. Though thats speculation too. Ultimately we don't know, and never will.

You will never be able to prove that this was ta'veren, because according to Sanderson, RJ explicitly left notes saying that Rand lighting his pipe with his mind was something that was supposed to remain mysterious abillity that will never be explained.
 
Last edited:
Agreed. I just assume since the option wasn't offered that there might be a reason for it - like she's out for a few days due to having also suffered Tavar's precog backlash.

I think Mazrick said she would be awake soon? We shoudl speak to her now, and to Dany when we get back, since we can't do the oath with Dany right now.
 
Here. Mazrick says we can talk to the host: http://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/posts/2269769/

I know you really wanted to talk to your Waifu Enjou, but it does not really make sense to talk to her, then run out to buy stuff, then return to talk again.

It also does not make sense to run out but ignore the manse, run back and talk to Dany, then go back out to the manse.

Anyway, going to bed. Night.
 
Going over these host questions:

[] Reassure the host that she is safe, but also warn her against doing anything violent.
-[] Assuming she shows no signs of hostility, try to be as kind and gentle as possible. She might be a totally ignorant victim. Still, be ready for anything.

Sensible, but do have similar precautions we put in for Dany.

[] Ask her what her name is and where she comes from.
-[] Does she have any family or friends that would miss her? Husband? Children?
-[] Introduce ourself and tell her we came to save our brother from Illyrio.
-[] Tell her the current situation, and apologise for not being able to let her go right now. But then point out that its as much for her protection as its ours. If Jorah or Drogo found her, they might react badly.

[] Ask her if she was aware while Tavar was in control of her.

[] Ask her if she understands what happened to her and if she knows what the forsaken are.
-[] Explain the forsaken and their use of hosts if she does not know.

[] Tell her that we have bound Tavar, and that she won't have to worry. We won't give her back to Tavar. She is safe now.

[] Ask her if she would be willing to tell us things she saw while Tavar was controlling her. Apologize for the necessity, but tell her that it could be very important.
-[] Ask how she was captured by Tavar in the first place
-[] Ask her if she saw Tavar use magic, and whether she understood it and if she is capable of using it herself now.
-[] Ask if she saw anything that she believes it would be important we know?

[] Tell her that we have Dany and Viserys as prisoners too. Ask if she knows what Tavar taught Dany, and how skilled Dany is?
-[] Anything else she knows about Dany that we should be aware of?

All sensible. Also ask if she knows anything about Drogo as well, and if she knows how Illyrio knew we were in the city. Ask if she knows what Dany's artifacts do. Also may want to ask her about her own magical abilities.

[] Tell her that we are going out to purchase supplies. Ask her if she wants or needs anything.
-[] Promise that we will do our best to help her return home as soon as possible.

Wouldn't tell her we're going out, but do ask if she needs anything. Also wouldn't tell her we're going to send her home yet, as we don't even know where her home is yet. Hell, she may not have a home - could be a slave that Illyrio bought.

Otherwise looks good, but don't forget to add in that we need to buy supplies for the blood ritual. Should also get some books to keep prisoners who don't need to be kept drugged or bound entertained.

Write it up, I'll vote for it.
 
What does a blood ritual with Daenerys gain us? Why would she agree, or even believe us? She's very unlikely to have any knowledge of Blood Magic, as the Targaryens had lost everything they knew.

No. When a channeler of 1 sex is linked with the other, they draw power from the other but still channel the way they regularly do.

For example, when Grady (Perrins asha'man) links with with the Aiel Wise ones, he creates gateways as a male does. This also works for a female.

Infact, there is only one example in the entire series where we see a female channel saidin-style. This is when Semirhage has Rand collared, and due to the unnatural link created by the a'dam, she is in control of his channeling but not TRULY linked. When she tortures Min with OP, Semirhage says:

In short, a female can teach a man ONLY if she knows how saidin is woven. Simply linking and weaving stuff is not sufficient (because its woven saidar-style, and won't work when the male tries it alone without the link).

That's not correct. We saw how it worked when Rand cleansed Saidin. He simultaneously surrendered to Saidar and dominated Saidin, and he specifically noted that the weaves of Saidar he formed were different to how they would have been if he'd woven them from Saidin.

A'dams create a link. It's a forced link, but it's still a link.

Now this is certainly possible if that female has spent a LOT of time learning how saidin is woven, and she actually knows how saidin is woven directly. In this case, links obviously work as a teaching tool. This also would work in reverse however, (if a man has spent lots of time learning how saidar is weaved). But if not, linking won't help. Apparently Ithroen is not familiar with how saidar is woven, so we have no reason to believe Tavar would be familiar with Saidin either.

I suspect a female Forsaken is more likely to use links than a male.

This is after Perrin basically confirms Rand is no longer a ta'veren.

Rands ability is unknown, but most likely something to do with his exposure to the reality outside the pattern. Though thats speculation too. Ultimately we don't know, and never will.

You will never be able to prove that this was ta'veren, because according to Sanderson, RJ explicitly left notes saying that Rand lighting his pipe with his mind was something that was supposed to remain mysterious abillity that will never be explained.

Rand certainly seemed to believe he could direct his Ta'veren ability, and appeared to use it on Tuon, and she only resisted with difficulty.
 
Last edited:
@Mazrick

I was going to plan how to add learning time magic to my spreadsheet but I'm seeing any mechanics for how learning that works. Am I missing something obvious or is that something not available yet?
... I forgot to include it.

It'd be something like:

(1/Skill)*(1/Will)*Level^3*Chaos Constant*Difficulty^21 = Cost
Chaos Constant = 10; Certain bloodlines diminish this by half
Difficulty = sum of either Distance/Temporal/Duration or Quality/Quantity depending on what you're trying to learn)


Cost Time XP
1-3 6 Hrs 5 XP
4-15 7H-2D 25 XP
16-30 3D-10D 50 XP
31-60 11D-1M 90 XP
61-100 2M- 6M 150 XP
101-150 7M-1YR 200 XP
151-300 2YR-3YR 250 XP
301-750 4YR-6YR 300 XP
750-1500 7YR- 13YR 400 XP
Its rough so please let me know what you think? I'm more than willing to make alterations, though I want Time to be difficult to learn.
A normal male channeler takes a lot longer than 1-2 years to reach their peak. I think it's more like 5-10.
Good to know. Harlon will have 1-2 years to reach his peak. Because he's not normal.:D:p
@Mazrick - Have the riots died down enough that Harlon can have someone go get the necessarily ingredients for the blood oath?
Have to wait until morning and then you should be good.
Where he lights his pipe at the very end.
I interpret that as him being able to affect reality without needing to channel. Definitely not confirmed Ta'veren shenanigans.
Didn't Ithroen tell us that?
He said:
Ithroen paused, and then spoke, "I have something of a talent for locating objects of the power or relating to magic. Its something I developed while stuck in that accursed orb. For instance, the ring on your finger is no ordinary ring." Ithroen staved off Harlon's interruption quickly. "Before you ask, I don't know what your ring does. I just get the sense that its not ordinary, and since its made of cuendillar--an indestructible metal forged by the One Power-- I assume that it is related to the One Power."

Harlon ran his finger over the ring. Cuendillar. Another thing to investigate. The Stark motioned to Ithroen continue despite the scholar's innate curiosity.

"Daenerys has two such items, an ivory pendant and a ruby encrusted necklace, and Illyrio has a cuendillar chain with a circular disk draped about his fat neck. All three objects emanate a sense of power from them. I would advise caution when dealing with these unknown items, even though the owners might not be aware of their nature they may still prove dangerous.
Basically, Dany's items could be artifacts or ter'angreals.
 
Back
Top