Fluffiness
Sleepy
- Location
- New York
And that is why we should have gone for my suggestion of gaining 3 levels in Tavar's name for the bonus vote. 
Stark Quest 2.0: The Search for Shinies
- Thread starter Mazrick
- Start date
"Tavar, tell us all you know-"
"No."
"Tavar, I compel you-"
"Nope."
"Tavar, damnit, obey me!"
"Come back when your skill level is higher."
"No."
"Tavar, I compel you-"
"Nope."
"Tavar, damnit, obey me!"
"Come back when your skill level is higher."
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
And that is why we should have gone for my suggestion of gaining 3 levels in Tavar's name for the bonus vote.
Silly, we should have gained 3 level in naming for Gravity.
Fluffiness
Sleepy
- Location
- New York
Wait. We should have gotten 3 levels in the name of the Creator. Impossible DC to learn, except with a bonus vote.
Van Ropen
Angry, angry about elves.
Alas, the vote is over...but from what I understand, that only matters for Active and level 9+ complexity sequences. That means my original suggestion where we had bought one level of accelerate then selected it as a bonus...the passive would have been 2x. Any reason we couldn't have just kept it on indefinitely?
Still, wouldn't have helped our immediate situation.
And the merging into one murderous hivemind continues. Excellent.You're turning into me Enjou! Good on you!
Ok, here's what I'm thinking.
[] Question Daenerys
-[] First, have Jon tell Tavar that if she wishes to be that way, then she can be silent. You'll be back, but let her know you're giving serious consideration to leaving her in her indestructible prison, encase it in stone, and drop it into the deepest parts of the ocean so that she would be lost and alone for all time. Cut communications and let her stew on that thought for a while.
-[] Second, you'll need to prepare to wake up Daenerys. You'll need to prepare some defenses. Jon will put on his Shardplate, and you will put on the cuendillar chain, and both of you will put up your defensive Sequences. You will also use Senses and Focus to perceive as much about her personality as you can during the conversation. Daenerys will be blindfolded, bound, and gagged, to prevent her from uttering a True Name before you've made your intention to talk clear. Also, remove your disguise.
--[] You think your failed attack against Illyrio has given you some insight into the Destruction Sequence. While you are waiting for Daenerys to wake up, you will train it a bit.
-[] Once Daenerys is awake, apologize for the restraints but inform her that they are for your protection as well as hers. Assure that you will do her no harm if she does you none. Let her know you are aware of magic, and that she knows Naming and Mind Magic. Once she acknowledges you will have Jon remove her restraints.
--[] Introduce yourself as Harlon Stark, son of Eddard Stark and Heir to the North.
---[] You should have the familiarity necessary for a blood oath between mages, given that you've dreamed of her for seven years. Acknowledge that she has little reason to trust you, given the history of your families and the current situation, but that you have a solution that may help. Explain about blood oaths between mages, and offer to perform one with her. If she will agree to tell you no lies and make no attempts to escape or notify her allies of her location, you will agree to tell her no lies and ensure she is given fair and just treatment as a noble prisoner under your care. Let her know that because of her status as a mage that if she refuses you will have to use Essence of Night to keep her asleep for the safety of you and your men once this conversation is over.
--[] You will then move on to questioning. In the interest of fairness, you'll both ask and answer questions. When asked a question, either party may answer and then ask their own question or pass, or refuse to answer and the other party will then get to ask another question.
---[] Questions you will ask Daenerys and things you will tell her.
----[] Ask her if she intends to conquer Westeros, and if she does whether she supported using Drogo's Dothraki army to do so.
-----[] If she answers in the affirmative to the later, ask her if she has given any consideration to what would actually happen to the people of Westeros she would rule over - not just the nobles, but the smallfolk - if tens of thousands of warriors from a culture that lives on raping, pillaging, and enslaving those that are weaker than them were to be brought to Westeros to conquer it for her.
----[] Ask her about her understanding of the history of Robert's Rebellion, and the Starks' role in it. If she seems to be ignorant of how things actually went, inform her of the truth. When your aunt was taken by Rhaegar, your uncle Brandon foolishly went to King's Landing to challenge him and was arrested. When your grandfather was called by her father to answer for this, he did as his king commanded of him and he came. Her father accused of him treason and sentenced him to death, and when your grandfather asked for trial by combat her father chose fire as his champion. He dangled your grandfather from a rope above a brazier of wildfire, with the other end of the rope tied to your uncle's neck choking him to death, with a sword nearby giving him an excruciating choice - free himself, kill his father, and be a kinslayer, or choke to death and have his father die anyways. Rhetorically ask her what she would expect your father to have done, given this situation.
----[] Ask her about her magical capabilities. Let her know that you know she knows some Mind Magic and the True Names of Fire and Earth, but not the full extent of her abilities with them.
----[] Ask her how much she knows about the mage who taught her - Tavar, or whatever other name she went by. Reveal the truth about Tavar and the deal she had made with Illyrio to use Daenerys as her vessel. Let her know about about the Forsaken in general, and that one tried to do much the same to you but you managed to bind it into your service instead. Let her know about the Pattern, about her being ta'veren according to Tavar, and that you suspect given your connection through dreams that you may be ta'veren as well. Hold off on explaining about the One Power for the time being, but let her know that both Forsaken have indicated that a great change is coming to the world that will cause much death and chaos.
----[] Ask her opinion on what you should do with Viserys, and of her general opinion of him in the first place. In spite of his incompetence and apparent madness you do view him as a potential threat, and let her know the options you have thought of are to execute him yourself, give him to Robert, or let him take the black.
----[] Ask her if she knows the functions of the two magical items she was wearing.
----[] Ask her if she knows how Illyrio knew that you were a Stark.
----[] Ask her if she knows anything about Khal Drogo beyond what's known to most. Clarify that you have suspicions he may have some kind of magic, given he managed to defeat a Shardbearer at sixteen without his own Shards.
---[] Questions you expect to be asked, and your intended answers.
----[] If she asks what you intend to do with her, answer that you are uncertain yet but it largely depends on whether or not you feel she is a threat to the people of Westeros and your family. If she poses no threat, then she need fear no harm.
----[] If she asks if you ever intended to kill her, answer truthfully - refusal to answer would be as good as a yes. You had planned on it, but Jon convinced you that you were being paranoid and that it was immoral to kill her without giving her a chance to prove she wasn't a threat.
----[] Harlon will determine with Wisdom 9 what he should answer for other questions - be honest without giving away any crucial secrets.
-[] When the conversation is done, privately ask Jon his thoughts on what to do with her.
EDIT - changed vote to talk to host. Keeping this wall of text available for future use.
Reasoning: My basic strategy is honesty - if we want honesty from her, we need to be reasonably honest as well.
Anyone have any other questions or answers they'd like to add, or changes they think I should make?
[] Question Daenerys
-[] First, have Jon tell Tavar that if she wishes to be that way, then she can be silent. You'll be back, but let her know you're giving serious consideration to leaving her in her indestructible prison, encase it in stone, and drop it into the deepest parts of the ocean so that she would be lost and alone for all time. Cut communications and let her stew on that thought for a while.
-[] Second, you'll need to prepare to wake up Daenerys. You'll need to prepare some defenses. Jon will put on his Shardplate, and you will put on the cuendillar chain, and both of you will put up your defensive Sequences. You will also use Senses and Focus to perceive as much about her personality as you can during the conversation. Daenerys will be blindfolded, bound, and gagged, to prevent her from uttering a True Name before you've made your intention to talk clear. Also, remove your disguise.
--[] You think your failed attack against Illyrio has given you some insight into the Destruction Sequence. While you are waiting for Daenerys to wake up, you will train it a bit.
-[] Once Daenerys is awake, apologize for the restraints but inform her that they are for your protection as well as hers. Assure that you will do her no harm if she does you none. Let her know you are aware of magic, and that she knows Naming and Mind Magic. Once she acknowledges you will have Jon remove her restraints.
--[] Introduce yourself as Harlon Stark, son of Eddard Stark and Heir to the North.
---[] You should have the familiarity necessary for a blood oath between mages, given that you've dreamed of her for seven years. Acknowledge that she has little reason to trust you, given the history of your families and the current situation, but that you have a solution that may help. Explain about blood oaths between mages, and offer to perform one with her. If she will agree to tell you no lies and make no attempts to escape or notify her allies of her location, you will agree to tell her no lies and ensure she is given fair and just treatment as a noble prisoner under your care. Let her know that because of her status as a mage that if she refuses you will have to use Essence of Night to keep her asleep for the safety of you and your men once this conversation is over.
--[] You will then move on to questioning. In the interest of fairness, you'll both ask and answer questions. When asked a question, either party may answer and then ask their own question or pass, or refuse to answer and the other party will then get to ask another question.
---[] Questions you will ask Daenerys and things you will tell her.
----[] Ask her if she intends to conquer Westeros, and if she does whether she supported using Drogo's Dothraki army to do so.
-----[] If she answers in the affirmative to the later, ask her if she has given any consideration to what would actually happen to the people of Westeros she would rule over - not just the nobles, but the smallfolk - if tens of thousands of warriors from a culture that lives on raping, pillaging, and enslaving those that are weaker than them were to be brought to Westeros to conquer it for her.
----[] Ask her about her understanding of the history of Robert's Rebellion, and the Starks' role in it. If she seems to be ignorant of how things actually went, inform her of the truth. When your aunt was taken by Rhaegar, your uncle Brandon foolishly went to King's Landing to challenge him and was arrested. When your grandfather was called by her father to answer for this, he did as his king commanded of him and he came. Her father accused of him treason and sentenced him to death, and when your grandfather asked for trial by combat her father chose fire as his champion. He dangled your grandfather from a rope above a brazier of wildfire, with the other end of the rope tied to your uncle's neck choking him to death, with a sword nearby giving him an excruciating choice - free himself, kill his father, and be a kinslayer, or choke to death and have his father die anyways. Rhetorically ask her what she would expect your father to have done, given this situation.
----[] Ask her about her magical capabilities. Let her know that you know she knows some Mind Magic and the True Names of Fire and Earth, but not the full extent of her abilities with them.
----[] Ask her how much she knows about the mage who taught her - Tavar, or whatever other name she went by. Reveal the truth about Tavar and the deal she had made with Illyrio to use Daenerys as her vessel. Let her know about about the Forsaken in general, and that one tried to do much the same to you but you managed to bind it into your service instead. Let her know about the Pattern, about her being ta'veren according to Tavar, and that you suspect given your connection through dreams that you may be ta'veren as well. Hold off on explaining about the One Power for the time being, but let her know that both Forsaken have indicated that a great change is coming to the world that will cause much death and chaos.
----[] Ask her opinion on what you should do with Viserys, and of her general opinion of him in the first place. In spite of his incompetence and apparent madness you do view him as a potential threat, and let her know the options you have thought of are to execute him yourself, give him to Robert, or let him take the black.
----[] Ask her if she knows the functions of the two magical items she was wearing.
----[] Ask her if she knows how Illyrio knew that you were a Stark.
----[] Ask her if she knows anything about Khal Drogo beyond what's known to most. Clarify that you have suspicions he may have some kind of magic, given he managed to defeat a Shardbearer at sixteen without his own Shards.
---[] Questions you expect to be asked, and your intended answers.
----[] If she asks what you intend to do with her, answer that you are uncertain yet but it largely depends on whether or not you feel she is a threat to the people of Westeros and your family. If she poses no threat, then she need fear no harm.
----[] If she asks if you ever intended to kill her, answer truthfully - refusal to answer would be as good as a yes. You had planned on it, but Jon convinced you that you were being paranoid and that it was immoral to kill her without giving her a chance to prove she wasn't a threat.
----[] Harlon will determine with Wisdom 9 what he should answer for other questions - be honest without giving away any crucial secrets.
-[] When the conversation is done, privately ask Jon his thoughts on what to do with her.
EDIT - changed vote to talk to host. Keeping this wall of text available for future use.
Reasoning: My basic strategy is honesty - if we want honesty from her, we need to be reasonably honest as well.
Anyone have any other questions or answers they'd like to add, or changes they think I should make?
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Ta'veren are not immortal and GM has confirmed he would not stop us if we were really insistent about killing her.
Though most were not for killing her yet anyway, so don't panic. Your waifu is safe for now.
I dunno. @Mazrick, could we talk to the host?
Did we not nick both of them with the poisoned knife about the same time? They should presumably both be out for approx the same period of time without further drugging (few hours at that time). Might actually be wiser to talk to both, but do so separately. Also keep everyone blindfolded and in contained room.
@Mazrick, do the names have to be spoken? A gag will work temporarily if so, and Jon with a shardplate and a club would likely convince her to cooperate.
I suppose we could try to learn the Name of Earth ourself to see what it does. Chance of failure would be high though, and naming can cause insanity.
Won't help much if she changes her mind, then speaks the Name of Earth to alert everyone to our location before we have a chance to stop her. Blood oaths don't stop the act, only inform you when the oath is broken. We would learn that anyway when the ground starts shaking.
---
She lied about being bound.
She stopped answering questions, thus she could choose not to answer. Another lie, and one she would have revealed even without Ithroens info.
Technical truth, but lies by omission IMHO. Forsaken are not demons or related to them based on Ithroens words about them being artificial constructs.
Jon is male, and as such Tavar could not teach him. Another lie.
I am sure she did. Regardless, revelation that Jon has unique powers over time as a Targ.
A lie of omission, since it warps reality according to the pattern, though admittedly this does generally help the ta'veren. Also, unfortunately we have no idea that Harlon himself is a ta'veren. Unless Tavar can detect it. Some forsaken in WoT had the ability to detect ta'veren from the effect they have on the surounding reality. I could see an observer forsaken being adept at this.
"True value"? Does that mean Dany does not know how powerfull that ability is, or that the ter'angreal does something else more significant?
---
We probably revealed too much. Dunno what to do now? If we could say something that would make our previous question plausible, that might work. Perhaps we could try to speak the truth partially? Tell her that Jorah was spying on the targs for Robert in hope of getting a pardon. Tell her that we are from Westeros and that Jorah stopped sending reports a while back, and we were sent to study the situation to find out whats happening here as a result.
Would explain our knowledge, and also why we would care more about that than anything else.
The oath breaks the very moment you even intend to break it. Also, again, I doubt she knows it to that degree.
Actually, would the earth shaking even help locate her? Would Jorah or Drogo know it was a signal from her?
Van Ropen
Angry, angry about elves.
*sharpens pitchfork, lights torch*
Don't think this is a good idea. We are better of establishing clearly that we are a third party instead of tying ourself into a pre-existing plot against her.
Could she have somehow read Jon's mind? Does he have his barriers up?
He wasn't there when she used magic against us and failed, and he's in Shardplate. Seems unlikely.
I meant Tavar. We know she's confined in the seal thingy right now, but just what can she do in regards to the person she communicates with?
This would likely sound so much like the Prison that it would confirm whatever suspicions she might have
Will she believe us?
If we go ahead with this, I wonder if we should keep her in a blindfold at first, to make sure she cannot see us to target us with mind abilities. Though that might be unnecessary paranoia considering we have the chain and Jon has the plate. Ofcourse, if she gets lucky, gets 75+ roll and manages to gain possession/control of Jon...
Good idea.
I believe we would have to keep her bound and gagged regardless. The blood oath will NOT stop her from trying to escape later if an opportunity arrives that changes her mind, and speaking the name of earth would probably be a good way to get people to come and investigate whats going on.
Yes, Harlon will learn of it the moment she changes her mind and decides to try and escape, but if Harlon has gone out, that won't help much.
the name of Earth could potentially be used to collapse part of the building or do something else blatant that would draw everyones attention. I dunno what it can really do.
@Mazrick, willing to tell us what Name of Earth can do?
Hehe, I wonder what you will do if Mazrick throws a curveball at you and has Dany claim she cares nothing for them and approves of the traitors being enslaved.
Its worth mentioning that this is arguably information that concerns not just Jon, but Ned aswell, since it being revealed would likely get his head chopped off. He has kept it such a secret, that he did not even tell Catelyn, despite that causing her to view both Jon and likely Ned with significant anger over what she falsely believes is betrayal of their marriage vows.
Ned would not be happy we instantly blurtled it out to the first targ we met, and on the very first discussion we ever had with her at that.
Thats assuming we can even say it considering we don't yet have solid confirmation IC from Ned.
Doubt he would live long on the wall regardless. If its even an option?
Eh, we don't really have any idea what the Prison is really like, only that it's a singularly unpleasant place. For all we know, there's a constant feeling of crushing pain while the Forsaken are imprisoned there, so maybe we can't quite duplicate the conditions.
We're just being imaginative.
Isn't that what the oath is for?
Good point. I doubt she's proficient enough with the Name of Earth to cause an earthquake (it seems like a high-end skill to me, when I compare it to what we know of the Fire Name), but she could still cause trouble if we don't constantly guard her.
Not necessarily. We just know she's something like a demon, so banishing her would just send her back to whatever hell she came from. This would prevent her from being summoned.
If she goes for the mutual blood oath of honesty, then she'd have little reason not to.
If we go ahead with this, I wonder if we should keep her in a blindfold at first, to make sure she cannot see us to target us with mind abilities. Though that might be unnecessary paranoia considering we have the chain and Jon has the plate. Ofcourse, if she gets lucky, gets 75+ roll and manages to gain possession/control of Jon...
Given Tavar's comments she's still very new to Mind Magic, so she wouldn't have that level of control, though I guess you're joking.
I don't think she'd be able to really do much with what she's likely got, and we'd ensure someone is guarding her door at all times. Probably someone from our personal guard with a warning of what to look out for. Also, keep in mind that she doesn't know where she is or how hard it would be to escape - she's confined to her room, basically.
Hehe, I wonder what you will do if Mazrick throws a curveball at you and has Dany claim she cares nothing for them and approves of the traitors being enslaved.
Doubt it, but that would certainly mean we couldn't make an alliance with her.
I feel it's worth revealing to gain her trust, but maybe change it a bit so that we only say it if we feel her prior answers indicate she's a moral person who wouldn't betray her own nephew?
Mazrick confirmed the three options I gave are the three IC thoughts Harlon has on the matter. Even if he would die there, we can't let him go. The other options are certain death, whereas the Wall is just probable death.
Mazrick
Shai'tan
- Location
- The Pit of Doom
I don't recall verifying that it was a ter'angreal. Also, she's a liar who lies.
He thinks he either overplayed his hand, Tavar has more info than what she's sharing, or she's trying to use her patience as a weapon. He knows that she's lying too, so she's obviously not bound at this time.
Ah, yes. Nothing could have gone wrong there!Wait. We should have gotten 3 levels in the name of the Creator. Impossible DC to learn, except with a bonus vote.
This seems a bit OOC for Harlon to ask. There are better ways to get this info through conversation.
Yes.
Yes.
After you learn it, or at least attempt to learn its name, sure.
Hmm. Do we want to talk to the host and Daenerys separately or together, then? There's pros and cons for both approaches.
Telling her Jons true heritage before we tell members of our own family, with no regard that we are telling her information that she could use to destroy our family feels far too much. In my opinion, its unrealistic for Harlon to do so IC at this point, and its wrong against Ned, Catelyn and the rest of of our brothers and sisters. I can't bring myself to support it. Its one of the things that is just too waifu-loving in this vote.
I also am not willing to give her free access to this place without knowing what she can do. Ask her what she can do with Name of Earth, and how skilled he is in mind magic and whether she could control or hurt those of our men who are not protected or send a signal that someone outside would detect (and that means anyone from Drogo to random patrolling guards or citizens).
I also am not willing to give her free access to this place without knowing what she can do. Ask her what she can do with Name of Earth, and how skilled he is in mind magic and whether she could control or hurt those of our men who are not protected or send a signal that someone outside would detect (and that means anyone from Drogo to random patrolling guards or citizens).
I was thinking that since she doesn't know about Tavar, her first reaction would be to ask the host questions. The responses would be interesting...
I don't think it's that OOC, as Harlon may think of the possibility that the dreams would be mutual, but I'm not sure how else to broach the subject. Are you fine with ta'veren making Dany blurt it out? (or just from the natural shock of meeting someone she's dreamed about for seven years as well) Or can I just leave this as is and you can write it in so it flows naturally IC? Mainly I just need Harlon to know the familiarity goes both ways so he can offer the blood oath of honesty.
Mazrick
Shai'tan
- Location
- The Pit of Doom
If Harlon gets rid of his disguise... which he's still wearing, I'd expect this little bit to have interesting consequences
If she has been dreaming of us, she will slip up and react to his appearance in an unusual way, now that she has time to get a proper look. Harlon will notice and can ask her.
Ok, I'll change it. I've added removing the disguise to prep work, and I'll just have Harlon assume that his dreams alone give familiarity enough.
I disagree on telling Dany what happened at the Tower if Joy. The reason for it is that that information is a weapon that could be used to destroy Robert's friendship with Ned and could have Jon executed or exiled from westeros. The reason why nobody knows this secrete is that only 2 people know it (Ned and Howland). If we start telling the secret to Dany, there is no guarantee she wont use it to get back at us. Even suspicion of it is enough to put us on a difficult position.