Star Wars Squadrons: Return of the X-Wing
- Thread starter Rhymes
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- Canada
TIEs being being more agile then X-Wings actually seems like something of an EU thing as well. Granted Rogue One is new canon, but even in the original trilogy Rebel fighters seemed to be able to chase TIEs just fine at Endor. I guess Vader and his wingmen were able to catch up to Luke and company during the trench run, but otherwise Rebel and Imperial fighters both seem to have the speed and agility to get on each other's sixes and give chase.
Any idea how they're balancing TIE Fighters and Interceptors? I'm kind of curious how the Fighter is going to perform in the general purpose fighter class when its generally portrayed as having no advantages over the interceptor and even being inferior in firepower.
Also if Ties are canonically supposed to have armored hulls then those hulls are basically the starfighter equivalent of Stormtrooper armor.
The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
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- Somewhere Offscreen
The TIE was more maneuverable, but not insurmountably so. Who could get on whose tail was still largely a matter of pilot skill and tactics.
The TIE Fighter in the game is tougher than the Interceptor, despite the inverse being true in the actual fiction. It's just a necessity for gameplay balance. Remember, Lucasfilm's policy has always been that the storylines of games are canon, but the game mechanics are not.
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- California
Which of course is odd, since the Interceptor was designed to replace the older TIE Fighter, rather than just supplement it. The Interceptor started to show up a few years before the Battle of Yavin, for ace pilots mostly. By Endor it is said that a fifth of the TIE Fighters had been replaced by the Interceptors. But there were millions of TIEs.
AKuz
Been Better
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- A Rising Tide of Horrors
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- She/Her
Billions
I think it's once remarked on in Legends that the only thing more numerous than TIEs in the GFFA is helium and hydrogen atoms.
>: V
The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
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- Somewhere Offscreen
Pretty sure that was a joke, given that I remember the line in question and it was, "The third most common thing in the universe after hydrogen and stupidity," which is itself a paraphrase of a Harlan Ellison quote.
It's never been said how many TIE Fighters were made, but given that there were 25,000 Imperial Star Destroyers that each carried 72 TIEs, that's 1.8 million TIEs just counting those that launched from ISDs. When you include the ones that operated from other types of ships, space stations and ground bases, I have to figure that it was at least 10 million.
The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
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- Somewhere Offscreen
Oh, you're right. I missed that in the Wookiepedia article. Although that would mean that ISDs alone accounted for 40% of the Empire's TIE capacity. (Unless that isn't counting Bombers and Interceptors.)
- Location
- California
I am assuming the number is just the standard TIE Fighter (TIE/ln) and not the other models, though the Empire would not have made the other models in great numbers due to most being specialized for something. The newer TIE bombers and the later TIE Interceptor would probably be the largest groups built outside the TIE/ln and maybe some of the early model TIE bombers (single hull TIE/gt models).
The Empire wouldn't station the more specialized fighters everyplace. Some ISDs might not even have an Interceptor squadron, and instead have a rare TIE advanced squadron, or some other variant more suited to their specific mission. Some ISD might have more TIE Interceptor squadrons if they are hunting Rebel starfighter units across sectors, and need ace pilot groups (instead of giving them TIE Advance models or the more experimental craft, like the Phantom or Defender)
Scale is the thing in Star Wars....the thing that cannot be grasped when it it come to the Rebel Alliance. They are not that big of a force, in comparison to the Galactic Empire. But, they have the potential of having even a few percent of the equipment of the Empire in terms of numbers...and that is still a lot of stuff. Even having 1% the number of X-wings verses TIE Fighters, is still a minimum of 46,000 X-wings.
The Empire wouldn't station the more specialized fighters everyplace. Some ISDs might not even have an Interceptor squadron, and instead have a rare TIE advanced squadron, or some other variant more suited to their specific mission. Some ISD might have more TIE Interceptor squadrons if they are hunting Rebel starfighter units across sectors, and need ace pilot groups (instead of giving them TIE Advance models or the more experimental craft, like the Phantom or Defender)
Scale is the thing in Star Wars....the thing that cannot be grasped when it it come to the Rebel Alliance. They are not that big of a force, in comparison to the Galactic Empire. But, they have the potential of having even a few percent of the equipment of the Empire in terms of numbers...and that is still a lot of stuff. Even having 1% the number of X-wings verses TIE Fighters, is still a minimum of 46,000 X-wings.
Mechasaurian
Big Bossu
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- Lost among fields of history
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- They/Them
Personally, I draw a distinction between the TIEs of the EU, which were extrapolated from video game stats and turned into pitiful cannon fodder for the heroes to feel good about mowing down by the dozen...
...and the TIEs of the films, which go toe to toe with the rebels in RotJ with no problems, and outright massacre them in ANH despite being at at 2:1 numbers disadvantage.
...and the TIEs of the films, which go toe to toe with the rebels in RotJ with no problems, and outright massacre them in ANH despite being at at 2:1 numbers disadvantage.
IgnusDei
Promethean Phantom
- Location
- The Amala Network
In the games' defense, a TIE Fighter controlled by the player is still very lethal, and Maarek Stele racked up an impressive amount of X-wing kills with one.
Using him as an example is cheating. The Wookiepedia article for him states that he was force sensitive.
Though then again, I'm pretty sure that Baron Fel himself doesn't have that excuse, and he probably racked up even more kills in the varrious TIE variants he flew.
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You are talking about the guy who dogfighted with a frigging TiE Bomber to save Thrawn. And won.
He is a veritable monster.
Night
Widow Null
- Location
- Hoff
tbh this didn't really happen in the EU either. Like an equivalent number of X-Wings vs. an equivalent number of TIEs was a win for the X-Wings, but 2-to-1 odds wasn't a fair fight for the X-Wings either and most X-Wing units not named Rogue Squadron would get shellacked at 3-to-1 odds.
It also really undersells the games. Like, go fire up the first X-Wing and the TIEs will kick your ass. There was actually a noticeable difficulty drop in TIE Fighter, where you are actually flying a TIE, to make it playable.
RogueIce
Noctis Æternæ
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- New Lunar Republic, Equestria
Yeah, it was mostly the X-Wing series that presented the imbalance. The other books, IIRC, never got into the nitty gritty of space battles but TIEs were generally competitive with NR fighters.
And I think the main reason Stackpole and Allston presented them as they did was because they based things so heavily off the games, where fighter shields were pretty tanky. In the movies they really weren't. So those books are something of an outlier, IMO.
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- Somewhere in the stacks
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- She/Her
Also Rogue and Wraith squadrons benefited from some main character shields. At least if your name was Corran Horn.
- Location
- France
This trailer show much better the inversion of roles between the rebels and the imperials than the entire Battlefront II advertising and actual campaign (not helped by the fact that we defected to the NR almost at the beginning): the imperials are now the ones having to rely on hit-and-run tactics and do-or-die tactics and maneuvers, forced to hide from the enemy and for whom the loss of an ISD is irreplaceable, while the NR is the new juggernaut curbstomping everything in a regular battle, continuously gaining in strength and with secret projects of new weapons. (the Starhawks)
It'll be interesting to see the contrast between the imperial and republican side of the campaign, I imagine that the former will be increasingly bitter and desperate as the remnants of the Empire keeps crumbling around them and what little victories they can get only delays the unstoppable war machine of the NR, while the latter will probably be hopeful and elated at finally being able to give back the punch to the Empire, especially as they keep liberating new worlds and pushing the imps against a corner.
So betting time, where do you think our team on the imperial side will end at the end of the game?
- Dead?
- Fleeing to the Unknown Regions to join the First Order?
- Integrated into the rump Imperial Remnant territories?
- Deserting to the NR? (I hope not, I'm getting sick of this overused plot)
- Deserting to find a new life? (Civilian, Mercenary, Bounty Hunter...)
- Joining Thrawn and Erza in their party in the Warp?
My personal money is on one of the first two. #5 might be plausible too, but I still somewhat doubt it.So betting time, where do you think our team on the imperial side will end at the end of the game?
- Dead?
- Fleeing to the Unknown Regions to join the First Order?
- Integrated into the rump Imperial Remnant territories?
- Deserting to the NR? (I hope not, I'm getting sick of this overused plot)
- Deserting to find a new life? (Civilian, Mercenary, Bounty Hunter...)
- Joining Thrawn and Erza in their party in the Warp?
AKuz
Been Better
- Location
- A Rising Tide of Horrors
- Pronouns
- She/Her
You know what I really want to fucking see?
A New Republic Nebula SD.
Absolutely gorgeous triangle. Honestly the most beautiful of all Star Destroyers. Though the NR refit Raider-corvette's are also similar in style and pretty cute.
A New Republic Nebula SD.
Absolutely gorgeous triangle. Honestly the most beautiful of all Star Destroyers. Though the NR refit Raider-corvette's are also similar in style and pretty cute.
13th Bee
Worker
- Location
- Tennessee, USA.
I like the upper half of the Nebula, but near as I can tell the underside of it has some goofy fins getting in the way its glorious sleek wedge-ness.You know what I really want to fucking see?
A New Republic Nebula SD.
Absolutely gorgeous triangle. Honestly the most beautiful of all Star Destroyers. Though the NR refit Raider-corvette's are also similar in style and pretty cute.
The Narrator
Disembodied Voice
- Location
- Somewhere Offscreen
I hope they're dead. Or captured and put on trial. That's the only appropriate end for unrepentant Imperials. But I suspect that they'll escape after Jakku to join the First Order.So betting time, where do you think our team on the imperial side will end at the end of the game?
- Dead?
- Fleeing to the Unknown Regions to join the First Order?
- Integrated into the rump Imperial Remnant territories?
- Deserting to the NR? (I hope not, I'm getting sick of this overused plot)
- Deserting to find a new life? (Civilian, Mercenary, Bounty Hunter...)
- Joining Thrawn and Erza in their party in the Warp?
There might be some Imperial defectors, but I'm pretty sure that the player character won't be one of them, since they've said that the campaign is going to switch between the two the whole way through. We're talking about someone who didn't leave when Alderaan was destroyed, when the Emperor died, or after Operation Cinder, and according to YouTubers who got to play the game early, in the Imperial tutorial mission they massacre Alderaanian refugees, so if their conscience hasn't spoken up yet, it's never going to.
- Location
- United States
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Ugh.
Space Nazis being equal opportunity makes me think of that South Park episode with the lynching flag... which concluded with them making the lynch multi racial, rather than, y'know, getting rid of the lynching entirely.