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Star Wars Squadrons: Return of the X-Wing

The Narrator said:
I hope that the campaign will be good. I'm sure it will be way too short compared to the forty or fifty missions that the classic games had. It's too bad that I'll have to spend half of it playing as an Imperial. I'm a little tired of these recent Star Wars games feeling like they need to include playing as the Empire. They are the bad guys. When I play a Star Wars game, I want to be shooting Imps in the face.
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Problem is that aesthetically said bad guys are cool, so people want to play them.
 
The game TIE Fighter had a better story than X-Wing did originally. Flying a TIE Fighter was a pain since you are a one shot or maybe two shot kill in those things. But a TIE Defender? Ohhh, those are fun.
 
ForeverShogo said:
Plus sometimes it's just fun to be the bad guy.
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Look man, Empire At War just straight up gives the Empire the ability to build the Death Star in the Galactic Conquest mode. What was I supposed to do, not use it to blow up every single planet in the galaxy except for Coruscant so I can avoid the tedious ground battle mechanics? Really, I did nothing wrong. No sir, I am completely blameless in this.
 
The Narrator said:
I'm a little tired of these recent Star Wars games feeling like they need to include playing as the Empire.
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TIE Fighter was made in 1994.

Recently we've had...uh...nuBF2 I guess? The EA exclusivity deal has really bottlenecked the number of recent Star Wars games, remember. And the protagonist started as Imperial but defected to the rebels on very short notice.

Personally I think there's a number of very interesting things you could do with an Imperial campaign that do not fall into the trap of glamorising the Empire. You could even use the premise to hammer home the moral bankruptcy of the Empire even harder.
 
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searcher8 said:
Look man, Empire At War just straight up gives the Empire the ability to build the Death Star in the Galactic Conquest mode. What was I supposed to do, not use it to blow up every single planet in the galaxy except for Coruscant so I can avoid the tedious ground battle mechanics? Really, I did nothing wrong. No sir, I am completely blameless in this.
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Plus you didn't have to build fighters, you could just build Star Destroyers as nature intended and have fighters and bombers stream out of those, no need to manage fleet composition.

I feel like since the Empire and the Rebellion/New Republic should have completely different gameplay, there's great space to explore there having both be playable and if you don't you're really shackling yourself. Plus in this one especially they don't let you online if you haven't played all 8 ships I believe, so by having Empire and New Republic campaigns you can just do those to qualify for the multiplayer
 
The Narrator said:
I'd love it if they made TIEs as shitty as they canonically are,
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But they're not? At both Yavin and Endor they were giving as good as they got. There was no real "Rebel fighters rofl-pwning TIEs" in either battle.

Frankly the 'TIEs suck' meme is from the games where they made X-wing shields far, far more useful (and tanky) than they were ever shown to be in the movies. And it kind of grew from there since the X-Wing novels were so heavily influenced by them.
 
I feel like the TIE Fighter is basically a "space Zero" - very agile and deadly in the right hands, with good firepower, but relatively fragile, while the X-wings are like P-40s in that they're less agile, but have roughly equivalent firepower and are a bit tankier. Or that was always my impression.
 
RogueIce said:
But they're not? At both Yavin and Endor they were giving as good as they got. There was no real "Rebel fighters rofl-pwning TIEs" in either battle.

Frankly the 'TIEs suck' meme is from the games where they made X-wing shields far, far more useful (and tanky) than they were ever shown to be in the movies. And it kind of grew from there since the X-Wing novels were so heavily influenced by them.
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I imagine its also from the same area as the Stormtroopers suck meme when y'know they're pretty effective in most situations in the movies when they're not ordered to not hit the heroes. Like they win pretty handily on the Tantive IV and Hoth, Endor's the only real blemish against them.
 
Badwolfwho said:
I imagine its also from the same area as the Stormtroopers suck meme when y'know they're pretty effective in most situations in the movies when they're not ordered to not hit the heroes.
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Their K/D ratio against the heroes is pretty abysmal on Cloud City, too. The "stormtroopers were ordered not to hit the heroes" theory falls apart upon examination of the other movies, where the plot armor is just as strong.
 
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ChamHasNoRoom said:
Their K/D ratio against the heroes is pretty abysmal on Cloud City, too. The "stormtroopers were ordered not to hit the heroes" theory falls apart upon examination of the other movies, where the plot armor is just as strong.
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That's fair for Cloud City, yeah. You could argue that the brief time they're shooting at Luke they're missing intentionally since Vader wants to deal with him personally but the rest not so much. Though to be fair even in Return of the Jedi they do hit Artoo and Leia, so I still don't think they're as bad as the memes say.
 
Memes always exaggerate everything to the most oversimplified extreme, and that is worth pointing out. Stormtroopers were only ever threatening in overwhelming numbers, but the heroes still had to pay attention when stormtroopers were shooting at them. They had to halt progress to take cover and stuff. Plus, the no-name Rebel soldiers on the Tantive IV were even worse shots. We see four or five Rebels go down in that fight, and I think one stormtrooper, this despite the fact that the stormtroopers were coming in through a chokepoint, had minimal cover, and their armor is consistently ineffective against direct hits from blasters, so that certainly isn't what's saving them.
 
please explain to me how the tactical ability of stormtroopers is relevant to a game about driving space fighters and blowing up other spaceships
 
Well, see the Narrator said this:

The Narrator said:
(I'd love it if they made TIEs as shitty as they canonically are, but gave each one a couple of AI wingmen to properly replicate the asymmetrical nature of these dogfights.)
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And then RogueIce responded with this:

RogueIce said:
But they're not? At both Yavin and Endor they were giving as good as they got. There was no real "Rebel fighters rofl-pwning TIEs" in either battle.

Frankly the 'TIEs suck' meme is from the games where they made X-wing shields far, far more useful (and tanky) than they were ever shown to be in the movies. And it kind of grew from there since the X-Wing novels were so heavily influenced by them.
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And then Badwolfwho brought up a related concept:

Badwolfwho said:
I imagine its also from the same area as the Stormtroopers suck meme when y'know they're pretty effective in most situations in the movies when they're not ordered to not hit the heroes. Like they win pretty handily on the Tantive IV and Hoth, Endor's the only real blemish against them.
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Which mentioned a theory that I don't think particularly holds up to scrutiny, so I posted this:

ChamHasNoRoom said:
Their K/D ratio against the heroes is pretty abysmal on Cloud City, too. The "stormtroopers were ordered not to hit the heroes" theory falls apart upon examination of the other movies, where the plot armor is just as strong.
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And then Badwolfwho said this:

Badwolfwho said:
That's fair for Cloud City, yeah. You could argue that the brief time they're shooting at Luke they're missing intentionally since Vader wants to deal with him personally but the rest not so much. Though to be fair even in Return of the Jedi they do hit Artoo and Leia, so I still don't think they're as bad as the memes say.
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So I mostly agreed by saying this:

ChamHasNoRoom said:
Memes always exaggerate everything to the most oversimplified extreme, and that is worth pointing out. Stormtroopers were only ever threatening in overwhelming numbers, but the heroes still had to pay attention when stormtroopers were shooting at them. They had to halt progress to take cover and stuff. Plus, the no-name Rebel soldiers on the Tantive IV were even worse shots. We see four or five Rebels go down in that fight, and I think one stormtrooper, this despite the fact that the stormtroopers were coming in through a chokepoint, had minimal cover, and their armor is consistently ineffective against direct hits from blasters, so that certainly isn't what's saving them.
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I hope this has helped you with your computer's mysterious inability to display the posts in the thread you are responding to.
 
ChamHasNoRoom said:
Well, see the Narrator said this:



And then RogueIce responded with this:



And then Badwolfwho brought up a related concept:



Which mentioned a theory that I don't think particularly holds up to scrutiny, so I posted this:



And then Badwolfwho said this:



So I mostly agreed by saying this:



I hope this has helped you with your computer's mysterious inability to display the posts in the thread you are responding to.
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This is a nice way of saying "get on the actual topic of the game" and stop having stupid lore fights. If you give a damn about stormtroopers on foot take it to a general discussion Star Wars topic.


I'm curious how ship selection and respawning will go. Is this going to be a role locked queue, will you be expected to swap as needed for the scenario? Like a Y Wing seems like a bad choice for the dogfight part but necessary for the next stage, are they just going to hope people change accordingly?
 
Mutton said:
This is a nice way of saying "get on the actual topic of the game"
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The nice way to say that is to actually get on the topic of the game. Digressions in forum discussions are completely typical and this one lasted all of four posts before petering out. This digression about the digression has now gone on longer than the original digression, and don't bitch to me about being part of it, because obviously people are going to respond when you address them directly.
 
Mutton said:
I'm curious how ship selection and respawning will go. Is this going to be a role locked queue, will you be expected to swap as needed for the scenario? Like a Y Wing seems like a bad choice for the dogfight part but necessary for the next stage, are they just going to hope people change accordingly?
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I doubt they'll have role locks applied for launch. Maybe a few months later depending on how people react to pick what you want.

Respawns are probably going to be based on the battlefield/battlefront ticket system. however i could see you being able to fly back to your "base" and switch out ships as needed during rounds, and i could see a suggestion of changing ships between rounds as well.
 
TIE Fighters are designed to fight with superior numbers and to used its high speed and maneuverability to keep its guns on target. Its guns are likely fairly good. What it does not have is shields nor very strong armor. It can take a hit, maybe two, but otherwise its toast.

X-wings are only marginally more durable that TIE Fighters. Though their shield help a little, allowing them to sometimes survive hits that would cripple a TIE. But like all small craft, they can't take a lot of punishment.

First Order TIEs have shields, while the T-70 and T-85 X-wings have closed the maneuverability gap with the TIE series. Making them more equal than they were during the Rebellion.
 
croxeye said:
I doubt they'll have role locks applied for launch. Maybe a few months later depending on how people react to pick what you want.

Respawns are probably going to be based on the battlefield/battlefront ticket system. however i could see you being able to fly back to your "base" and switch out ships as needed during rounds, and i could see a suggestion of changing ships between rounds as well.
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It's gonna be a bit awkward in a 5v5 game, especially if one of the roles is less fun (support or bombing). Gonna need to find a group to run with so I can A-Wing pew pew all day.

Ithekro said:
TIE Fighters are designed to fight with superior numbers and to used its high speed and maneuverability to keep its guns on target. Its guns are likely fairly good. What it does not have is shields nor very strong armor. It can take a hit, maybe two, but otherwise its toast.

X-wings are only marginally more durable that TIE Fighters. Though their shield help a little, allowing them to sometimes survive hits that would cripple a TIE. But like all small craft, they can't take a lot of punishment.

First Order TIEs have shields, while the T-70 and T-85 X-wings have closed the maneuverability gap with the TIE series. Making them more equal than they were during the Rebellion.
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It seems like what they're doing here is increasing the armor on TIEs to make up for no shields and you only have to juggle engine and weapons instead of all three. So you'll probably be worse in extended firefights and you need to maneuver to survive more than tank hits if you get ganked, but you can do just as well in constant dogfight.
 
For people who ever signed up for an EA promotional thing or explicitly signed up for EA Playtesting and then forgot about it, check your emails. EA's sending out invites for a closed technical test of the game next weekend.

(I can say I'm in it and nothing else. :V )
 
Rat King said:
I feel like the TIE Fighter is basically a "space Zero" - very agile and deadly in the right hands, with good firepower, but relatively fragile, while the X-wings are like P-40s in that they're less agile, but have roughly equivalent firepower and are a bit tankier. Or that was always my impression.
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Worse, TIE's are faster and better accelerating and more maneuverable and have the firepower to kill X-Wings in one burst.

If this was WW2, TIEs would butcher X-Wings every single time. They'd get F6F Hellcat kill ratios.
 
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