Remove ads

Skooma Cat (TES V: Skyrim)

Reader mode
Gruntjerka said:
When using Detect Dead, the werewolves of Frostmoon Crag on Solstheim in particular detects as dead, while the companions don't, from what I remember.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
No they don't. I just went and checked.

Larekko12 said:
Hircin is worst true neutral. The kinda that often really evil and fan of the most dangerous game and aligned with the people eater. Seeing as companion wolves get super powers eating people.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
... What? Hircine's alignment wasn't what I was questioning; Hircine's pretty disinterested in normal affairs and his interactions are selfish, primarily based around his own amusement, which pings Evil on my personal alignment meter, even if he's not *as* evil as the more blatantly "kill everyone" Mehrunes Dagon and such.

The question is if Meridia (who is, herself, someone who is commonly depicted as more Lawful Neutral with a hate boner for Undead) has an issue with Werewolves.
 
Evil isn't disinterest in others with selfish motivations. That's neutral. Evil is domination and destruction, with contempt for others. Or, that's how I've always seen it.
 
You bowed out, leaving me the only one in the argument?

That's incredibly mature of you. Not many are actually able to do that. I guess that means

 
honestly, Larekko's post just left me confused as hell. I wasn't even trying to get involved in a debate but then I had a stroke trying to make sense of it. So I think he might still be someone arguing with you?
 
As it comes to this kind of debate it is usefull to ask the author. Sometimes even very strange derails can be usefull. Though way more often such derails are detrimental.
So, having the author supporting one side or the other helps greatly in such discussion where one can not embrace hard facts and logic.

RichardWhereat said:
I guess that means
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That means that your behaviour is not optimal to say the least.
 
JustHereForZoat said:
No they don't. I just went and checked.

... What? Hircine's alignment wasn't what I was questioning; Hircine's pretty disinterested in normal affairs and his interactions are selfish, primarily based around his own amusement, which pings Evil on my personal alignment meter, even if he's not *as* evil as the more blatantly "kill everyone" Mehrunes Dagon and such.

The question is if Meridia (who is, herself, someone who is commonly depicted as more Lawful Neutral with a hate boner for Undead) has an issue with Werewolves.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Hircine is a corruptive force and Meridia is against that. He corrupts to animalism bestialness and the hunt up to and and favoring the most Dangerous game humans. Werewolves and vampires are often just warring people eating monsters.
 
Larekko12 said:
Hircine is a corruptive force and Meridia is against that. He corrupts to animalism bestialness and the hunt up to and and favoring the most Dangerous game humans. Werewolves and vampires are often just warring people eating monsters.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
From a human perspective sure, but if one is a walking corpse and the other isn't then her attitudes to the two are likely to differ.
 
Meridia is, despite being featured prominently as the protagonist of this fic's personal Goddess and someone that he reveres, not actually Good. She's completely fine with a lot of evil actions; in most of canon, she mostly just wants you to go kill undead and doesn't really care about your morality. As long as you SUFFER NOT THE UNDEAD TO LIVE, she really doesn't care about anything else. the one time she didn't have an undead hate boner, she was asking the protagonist to go kill a dude for breaking a deal with her.

EDIT: Meridia isn't "goddess of the natural order" she's "goddess of infinite energies" with a particular focus on the energies of living beings. Werewolves break the natural order, but the natural order isn't something Meridia cares about.
 
Last edited:
IndulgingReader said:
As it comes to this kind of debate it is usefull to ask the author. Sometimes even very strange derails can be usefull. Though way more often such derails are detrimental.
So, having the author supporting one side or the other helps greatly in such discussion where one can not embrace hard facts and logic.


That means that your behaviour is not optimal to say the least.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
You're one of those people to whom jokes are a different language, aren't you...
 
RichardWhereat said:
You're one of those people to whom jokes are a different language, aren't you...
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
On the opposite. I like good trolling. Especially by means of math, physics and other hard sciences. I.e. it's funny to use observable facts in shonen manga to prove something against popular belief pointing to the same source said belief emerged from. But your attempt to bring personal tastes as facts is such a low class.

Edit.
So, as it comes to this discussion, the labels of Good, Evil etc. are up to the autor.
 
Last edited:
Good, evil, and in bewtween don't really... apply to the et'Ada. Even seemingly benevolent ones such as Akatosh have their moments of legendary douchebaggery. Either the et'Ada themselves or their minions operating under divine approval commit heinous acts. CoughPelinialCough. As with all things, context is the key defining characteristic to look for in your et'Ada interactions--is the et'Ada you're dealing with being helpful, harmful, or something else? Do they make their preferences for mortal interactions known? Do they have any well-documented red-button topics that you can press or leave unpressed to get the most out of the interaction?

Goodness, evilness, or neutrality are a thing for mortals. For the et'Ada, they are either extraplanar forces of near-omnipotence or the fundamental forces of the universe. They are no more evil than fire is when it burns someone alive, no more good than that same fire providing warmth and safety from night terrors.
 
RichardWhereat said:
And that's why we worship Talos. For the night is dark, and full of terrors.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Of course, Talos, while his own God and may have been mortal-ish at one point, is also simultaneously just a fragment of Akatosh and just a temporary incarnation of Shezzar, so...

edit: As a scholar in the mod Wheels of Lull puts it, the question isn't "is Tiber Septim a god", the question is "was Talos ever really a man".
 
Last edited:
The Daedra/Aedra are operating on Blue and Orange morality, yeah.

The question is really "On what basis does Meridia not like Werewolves?" because, as far as I've trawled through the lore, she's never had an opinion on werewolves at all.
 
JustHereForZoat said:
The Daedra/Aedra are operating on Blue and Orange morality, yeah.

The question is really "On what basis does Meridia not like Werewolves?" because, as far as I've trawled through the lore, she's never had an opinion on werewolves at all.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I take my 'anti-corruption' thing about her from her in-game dialogue in Skyrim, where she urges the player to: "Take the mighty Dawnbreaker and with it purge corruption from the dark corners of the world."

However in that same quest she refers to the shades as 'corruptions' so it could be that she sees the undead and corruption as the same thing, but other variants of the word 'corruption' to be different things.
 
Zap Rowsdower said:
Of course, Talos, while his own God and may have been mortal-ish at one point, is also simultaneously just a fragment of Akatosh and just a temporary incarnation of Shezzar, so...
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Where on earth was it said that Talos is a fragment of Akatosh?

Talos is an incarnation of Shezzar, and thus Lorkhan, or Shor. He existed separate from Akatosh, and was birthed at the same time. Anui-El begat Akatosh, as Sithis begat Lorkhan.
Or so the Monomyth tells us.
 
Dawnbringer is explicitly a weapon against the Undead; it's... The way that Elder Scrolls cosmology works is really weird, so I'm gonna drag some D&D 3.5 in.

Meridia is, functionally, the Goddess of Positive Energy. In the way that a Goddess of Air and Wind might find the idea of being entombed in stone appalling, Meridia is the goddess of "Life" in the sense of "living things are healed by this energy that I represent" ; to her the idea that something can be 'living' but not animated via Positive Energy is inherently incompatible with her world view. She doesn't have an opinion on the Dwemer Automatons, and I think that's largely because they're clearly machines and not at all but just the touch of her energy is enough to cause horrible pain upon the undead. She sees that as unnatural and a mockery of life, and by extension, her.

Her Hate Boner for the Undead is born from that, rather than the actual natural order. I don't think she cared about the Corprus disease turning people immortal or anything, she just hates the fact that there are beings out there who, on a metaphysical level, are incompatible with her. Even the other daedra aren't fundamentally incompatible with her.
 
RichardWhereat said:
Where on earth was it said that Talos is a fragment of Akatosh?

Talos is an incarnation of Shezzar, and thus Lorkhan, or Shor. He existed separate from Akatosh, and was birthed at the same time. Anui-El begat Akatosh, as Sithis begat Lorkhan.
Or so the Monomyth tells us.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
He was a Dragonborn, acknowledged as such specifically by the Greybeards and the whole Dragonfires thing. To be a Dragonborn is to have the Soul of a Dragon.

Dragons being fundamentally children and/or fragments (the difference between the two is minimal AFIK) of Akatosh.


Hence being simultaneously part of Akatosh and Shezzar: he was a Dragonborn Shezzarine. Like the ESV protagonist.
 
Of course, I forgot about the dragon soul for a moment, though he was very much still majority Shor.
 
Possibly!

I would note that Meridia has no room in her world view for the idea that an undead being isn't inherently evil; she's "DESTROY THE HERETIC" rather than "HAVE YOU HEARD THE WORD OF OUR LADY MERIDIA" in the face of a Vampire.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top