I think we should definetly call them we need to stay connected to our humanity and grounded and who better to do that than our family, also we owe it to them to let them know.

Yes but we should probably get his head screwed back on right first and get the ground rules of what we can and cannot say.

As " hey guys I took this vial of weird stuff slipped into a 4 month coma and when I woke up my cancer was gone and I can make one of the Fundinental forces of the universe my bitch now." Would likely not fly very well with anyone.

Head space sorted out, ground rules and cover story received and THEN we contact the folks back home.
 
Yes but we should probably get his head screwed back on right first and get the ground rules of what we can and cannot say.

As " hey guys I took this vial of weird stuff slipped into a 4 month coma and when I woke up my cancer was gone and I can make one of the Fundinental forces of the universe my bitch now." Would likely not fly very well with anyone.

Head space sorted out, ground rules and cover story received and THEN we contact the folks back home.
What if we didn't get Alex's head screwed on straight? I kind of like the idea of us going to our family in our times of greatest need. Even if it isn't the optimal idea, it might be just the thing we need to make Alex more stable in the future. We basically create people he can rely on, as opposed to doing the classic, I know best, I don't need to rely on others. Unless @IKnowNothing says that their lives are in mortal danger by us telling them the little Alex knows at this moment, I think we should start a habit of relying on others.

From a more Doyalist Point of View, I kind of want to do it just because it isn't optimal. Who thinks in the most optimal way? This is a guy who thinks that his family thinks he is dead. Why should he think optimally? He should be thinking with his heart right now. So I say, let us call our family, for our sake and theirs.
 
What if we didn't get Alex's head screwed on straight? I kind of like the idea of us going to our family in our times of greatest need. Even if it isn't the optimal idea, it might be just the thing we need to make Alex more stable in the future. We basically create people he can rely on, as opposed to doing the classic, I know best, I don't need to rely on others. Unless @IKnowNothing says that their lives are in mortal danger by us telling them the little Alex knows at this moment, I think we should start a habit of relying on others.

From a more Doyalist Point of View, I kind of want to do it just because it isn't optimal. Who thinks in the most optimal way? This is a guy who thinks that his family thinks he is dead. Why should he think optimally? He should be thinking with his heart right now. So I say, let us call our family, for our sake and theirs.

Can we at least get the Cauldren party line?

Okay. what does he say " hey guys just woke up from my 4 mouth long coma Sans the cancer totaly healthy and oh yeah I can crush a tank and send the ball flying trough a Bunker with my mind now so that's neat also I'm with this shady possibly government agency who hands out super powers for some reason. so what's new with you?" He has no fucking clue what's going on why they gave him powers or why the doc who seems to be in charge needs a body guard who can punt a Semi-Truck trough a building.

I'm not against talking to the family or not relying on people ( hell this plan is Rely on the shady government agency to get a cover story) those are all good things but how will runing off half cocked and with no infomation help? not to mention it'll paint an enourmus target on their back with a " Please Kill me now" note attached.
 
Yes but we should probably get his head screwed back on right first and get the ground rules of what we can and cannot say.

As " hey guys I took this vial of weird stuff slipped into a 4 month coma and when I woke up my cancer was gone and I can make one of the Fundinental forces of the universe my bitch now." Would likely not fly very well with anyone.

Head space sorted out, ground rules and cover story received and THEN we contact the folks back home.

Why would we need a cover story? Just not admit to taking medicine. Say we were in a coma for a couple months and have only recently woken up and spoken to our current doctors. The way things stand it seems the cancer has gone dormant and you don't understand why. We'd be a medical marvel but we'd be mostly telling the truth. We don't know how we were healed beyond "drank some glowing shit and passed out for 4 months".
 
Why would we need a cover story? Just not admit to taking medicine. Say we were in a coma for a couple months and have only recently woken up and spoken to our current doctors. The way things stand it seems the cancer has gone dormant and you don't understand why. We'd be a medical marvel but we'd be mostly telling the truth. We don't know how we were healed beyond "drank some glowing shit and passed out for 4 months".

Or we could wait an hour and get fully briefed.


Fucking hell people let him get informed as to what the freaking hell happened to him beyond " drink super drug and wake up with godlike power"

It's not going to hurt him to wait a bit
 
Or we could wait an hour and get fully briefed.


Fucking hell people let him get informed as to what the freaking hell happened to him beyond " drink super drug and wake up with godlike power"

It's not going to hurt him to wait a bit
I personally view not calling as just plain metagaming. To break it down simply, He now knows that it has been 4 months since vial drinking, knows that he had 3 months left to live, and thus his family probably thinks he is dead. (We know that his father and brother think so atleast.) Given how prominently his family featured in his reasons to drink the vial, not trying to correct his family's misconception is weird and out of character.

Now we don't need to tell them everything, as we don't know everything ourselves. Hell, we can say that! "Yea, I am not exactly sure how I was cured, and I am pretty sure the doctor will give me more information later."

But, if you can give me even a single non meta-gamey answer to wait, I will change my mind.
 
I personally view not calling as just plain metagaming. To break it down simply, He now knows that it has been 4 months since vial drinking, knows that he had 3 months left to live, and thus his family probably thinks he is dead. (We know that his father and brother think so atleast.) Given how prominently his family featured in his reasons to drink the vial, not trying to correct his family's misconception is weird and out of character.

Now we don't need to tell them everything, as we don't know everything ourselves. Hell, we can say that! "Yea, I am not exactly sure how I was cured, and I am pretty sure the doctor will give me more information later."

But, if you can give me even a single non meta-gamey answer to wait, I will change my mind.

Doesn't know he can? Because he's been more or less abducted by a shadowy organization that gave him superpowers for some reason and his recruiting other people who would be dead without these powers.That does not scream that the phone by his bed would actually connect to anyone outside of wherever he is .

And even if he could what would he say ? How could he even begin to describe what's going on when even he does not know.

And then there's the whole he's in the middle of a conversation with someone right now? It would be rude of him just to ignore her and go straight for the phone.
 
Well, for our sister at least considering she hasn't given up hope yet.
This is more of a sign of her age and relative naivete than anything else. As people grow up and learn about the world they learn that at some point, you have to just accept the shit you're dealt and move on. The fact that our father and brother have moved on is not a reflection of their true love for us. Our father stuck around and provided for three kids as a single father and our brother spent a great deal of his free time ensuring that we would have the mental tools to be able to live up to what potential we have, and beyond all of that, our family spent months never giving up hope and visiting us in hospital. That, if anything speaks to how much our family cares for us.

Keep in mind here, Alex never chose to call his family. The thought never went through his head and we as the players didn't even stop to ask our friendly GM until one of the other characters mentioned how long we've been in a coma.

Don't play high and mighty. Alex is a good kid, but he's as oblivious as all other teenagers always are.
I personally view not calling as just plain metagaming.
But, if you can give me even a single non meta-gamey answer to wait, I will change my mind.
Sure. Here's one:

Fear.

Alex just learned he slept for four months after taking what appears to be a miracle drug that cured his cancer and in the same moment, gave him absolutely terrifying superpowers. If he calls them what is he supposed to say? "How do I tell them that I basically just drank a strange liquid handed me by a strange woman on the off-chance it would cure me? That I essentially risked the last 3 months I had to live?" These are terrifying questions for a young man to even answer to himself let alone to his family.

No metagame answer needed.

I kind of like the idea of us going to our family in our times of greatest need. Even if it isn't the optimal idea, it might be just the thing we need to make Alex more stable in the future. We basically create people he can rely on, as opposed to doing the classic, I know best, I don't need to rely on others.

I agree with that. Support structures are certainly a necessary component of what we're going to have to develop to keep Alex from going insane or turning into what we saw of canon Alexandria(aka a walking, breathing automaton).

On that note, we should also remember that Alex is Rebecca's support here. She has been awake most of those four months and she didn't contact her family. We have a rough idea that she isn't terribly happy with what remains of her home life and looks to Alex's family as a substitute for her own, with Alex as the primary point of contact.

We know what she turns into in canon; lets avoid that.
 
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This is more of a sign of her age and relative naivete than anything else. As people grow up and learn about the world they learn that at some point, you have to just accept the shit you're dealt and move on. The fact that our father and brother have moved on is not a reflection of their true love for us. Our father stuck around and provided for three kids as a single father and our brother spent a great deal of his free time ensuring that we would have the mental tools to be able to live up to what potential we have, and beyond all of that, our family spent months never giving up hope and visiting us in hospital. That, if anything speaks to how much our family cares for us.

Keep in mind here, Alex never chose to call his family. The thought never went through his head and we as the players didn't even stop to ask our friendly GM until one of the other characters mentioned how long we've been in a coma.

Don't play high and mighty. Alex is a good kid, but he's as oblivious as all other teenagers always are.


Sure. Here's one:

Fear.

Alex just learned he slept for four months after taking what appears to be a miracle drug that cured his cancer and in the same moment, gave him absolutely terrifying superpowers. If he calls them what is he supposed to say? "How do I tell them that I basically just drank a strange liquid handed me by a strange woman on the off-chance it would cure me? That I essentially risked the last 3 months I had to live?" These are terrifying questions for a young man to even answer to himself let alone to his family.

No metagame answer needed.



I agree with that. Support structures are certainly a necessary component of what we're going to have to develop to keep Alex from going insane or turning into what we saw of canon Alexandria(aka a walking, breathing automaton).

On that note, we should also remember that Alex is Rebecca's support here. She has been awake most of those four months and she didn't contact her family. We have a rough idea that she isn't terribly happy with what remains of her home life and looks to Alex's family as a substitute for her own, with Alex as the primary point of contact.

We know what she turns into in canon; lets avoid that.
Yea, that's a good reason not to call. Or at least to procrastinate it until such a point where we would be given a cover story. I do want to call them sooner than later, but I won't push doing it ASAP.
 
And then there's the whole he's in the middle of a conversation with someone right now? It would be rude of him just to ignore her and go straight for the phone.

But, if you can give me even a single non meta-gamey answer to wait, I will change my mind.

Alex just learned he slept for four months after taking what appears to be a miracle drug that cured his cancer and in the same moment, gave him absolutely terrifying superpowers. If he calls them what is he supposed to say? "How do I tell them that I basically just drank a strange liquid handed me by a strange woman on the off-chance it would cure me? That I essentially risked the last 3 months I had to live?" These are terrifying questions for a young man to even answer to himself let alone to his family.

No metagame answer needed.

Or at least to procrastinate it until such a point where we would be given a cover story.

As much as I love the discussions going on, don't get me wrong they are fantastic, but I feel the need to remind people of one important fact.

I will ask you this, where are you?

You're in Cauldron, the organization created for the preservation of humanity at any and all costs.

Alex is capable of Controlling Gravity, and that's only one of the powers that the Intensity shards give him.

To quote the good doctor:

"Subject has confirmed to control one of the fundamental forces of the universe. Inform Doctor Mother, another deterrent has been uncovered."

As of right now, Cauldron has created three Deterrents. People capable of fighting the true challenge, Scion.

At this point, Alex has the potential to be the third most powerful being in existence. Cauldron knows this, Contessa knows this. She is under orders to insure Alex's support. She has made sure, that everything goes according to Doctor Mother's

Now I ask of you, how much would Cauldron manipulate events, set things up, so that this deterrent remains with them?

Support structures are certainly a necessary component of what we're going to have to develop to keep Alex from going insane or turning into what we saw of canon Alexandria(aka a walking, breathing automaton).

On that note, we should also remember that Alex is Rebecca's support here. She has been awake most of those four months and she didn't contact her family. We have a rough idea that she isn't terribly happy with what remains of her home life and looks to Alex's family as a substitute for her own, with Alex as the primary point of contact.

We know what she turns into in canon; lets avoid that.

Actually, to answer this for the thread, the amount of times that Rebecca has even thought of calling her own family is exactly zero. She has never once thought of giving them a call.

In fact, the only people she has interacted with outside of Cauldron for the last four months is Danah. Officially, unlike Alex, Rebecca didn't fall into a coma due to the treatment that cured her. She was the one that called Alex's family to tell them about his situation. She was the one who gave them the numbers and the express information about Alex's condition. She gave Danah hope, but only confirmed what Clint and James feared.

Had she not done anything, Alex and Rebecca would have officially been listed as dead and Cauldron wouldn't have told the families anything. They would have made puppet bodies, they would be buried, and their original lives forgotten when they became heroes. The families are irrelevant in Cauldron's eyes, only the deterrents and the heroes are what matters.
 
You keep saying "Cauldron" but that's like two people, Dr. Mother and Contessa. Let's put the responsibility where it belongs. There's no vast uncaring bureaucracy here. Nobody should get to hide behind the impersonal "Cauldron" like they aren't responsible for their own actions.

Just my opinion.
 
As much as I love the discussions going on, don't get me wrong they are fantastic, but I feel the need to remind people of one important fact.

I will ask you this, where are you?

You're in Cauldron, the organization created for the preservation of humanity at any and all costs.

Alex is capable of Controlling Gravity, and that's only one of the powers that the Intensity shards give him.

To quote the good doctor:



As of right now, Cauldron has created three Deterrents. People capable of fighting the true challenge, Scion.

At this point, Alex has the potential to be the third most powerful being in existence. Cauldron knows this, Contessa knows this. She is under orders to insure Alex's support. She has made sure, that everything goes according to Doctor Mother's

Now I ask of you, how much would Cauldron manipulate events, set things up, so that this deterrent remains with them?



Actually, to answer this for the thread, the amount of times that Rebecca has even thought of calling her own family is exactly zero. She has never once thought of giving them a call.

In fact, the only people she has interacted with outside of Cauldron for the last four months is Danah. Officially, unlike Alex, Rebecca didn't fall into a coma due to the treatment that cured her. She was the one that called Alex's family to tell them about his situation. She was the one who gave them the numbers and the express information about Alex's condition. She gave Danah hope, but only confirmed what Clint and James feared.

Had she not done anything, Alex and Rebecca would have officially been listed as dead and Cauldron wouldn't have told the families anything. They would have made puppet bodies, they would be buried, and their original lives forgotten when they became heroes. The families are irrelevant in Cauldron's eyes, only the deterrents and the heroes are what matters.

Not... quite?

In canon, Cauldron was much better at this point in time. Much more willing to go out of their way to avoid doing amoral things. Much more... heroic. They certainly cared primarily about ensuring victory against Scion, but they were not stupid or mindlessly paranoid about it. There's no need to manipulate events, arrange deaths and destroy relationships, when all they had to do was let Alex connect to his family, and thus, have a very convincing personal reason to fight against Scion and similar threats. Cauldron hasn't yet been betrayed by Manton. Cauldron hasn't yet seen someone they trusted tear apart one of their best allies and the person who embodied their hope(Hero), and nearly do the same to another, similarly important character(Alexandria). They haven't seen the rise of the Endbringers and their methodical destruction of the human race, so they weren't working under a strict time limit(the original cycle was meant to last centuries, but the Endbringers would've collapsed civilization within decades and killed far too many parahumans by then, so Cauldron had to hurry up). They weren't forced to see their single greatest hope, Eidolon, waste away, lose his power and fall into depression. They weren't forced to completely abandon morals to hurry up due to the time limit.

Now, don't get me wrong, even then, they were willing to do what they saw as necessary, but it was nowhere near the first option. They did their best to avoid resorting to that stuff. There's absolutely no reason to just jump to manipulation and bond-breaking with Alex, when there are far better options to ensure his cooperation, with far less effort involved.
Cauldron merely needs to give him a cover story, and let him connect to his family, and through it, to humanity. Hell, if they had to resort to manipulation, they could just throw Contessa at him and have her PtV him into caring about humanity, using his family as one of the things tying him to Cauldron's ultimate goal - killing Scion. There's no need to resort to shadowrunning, conspiring and background string-pulling.
 
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In canon, Cauldron was much better at this point in time.
I think you're conflating Cauldron and the Founders (aka, Hero, Legend, Alexandria, and Eidolon).

As @Briefvoice said, Cauldron here is basically two people, and Contessa is by the very definition of her power completely amoral at this point. Her path basically tells her the best way to save the world, and right now, keeping Alex within their purview is the best way to accomplish that.
 
I think you're conflating Cauldron and the Founders (aka, Hero, Legend, Alexandria, and Eidolon).

As @Briefvoice said, Cauldron here is basically two people, and Contessa is by the very definition of her power completely amoral at this point. Her path basically tells her the best way to save the world, and right now, keeping Alex within their purview is the best way to accomplish that.

Which can be done far more efficiently than by manipulating events from the shadows, arranging deaths, breaking relationships and then keeping Alex from discovering any of that, or at least caring about it.

If you can PtV things like that, you can simply PtV a speech that convinces Alex to help you. His family is a perfectly viable argument that can be used in said speech. Cutting him away from it would be counterproductive, and PtV doesn't do counterproductive.
 
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You keep saying "Cauldron" but that's like two people, Dr. Mother and Contessa. Let's put the responsibility where it belongs. There's no vast uncaring bureaucracy here. Nobody should get to hide behind the impersonal "Cauldron" like they aren't responsible for their own actions.

Just my opinion.

Fair enough.

Not... quite?

In canon, Cauldron was much better at this point in time. Much more willing to go out of their way to avoid doing amoral things. Much more... heroic. They certainly cared primarily about ensuring victory against Scion, but they were not stupid or mindlessly paranoid about it. There's no need to manipulate events, arrange deaths and destroy relationships, when all they had to do was let Alex connect to his family, and thus, have a very convincing personal reason to fight against Scion and similar threats. Cauldron hasn't yet been betrayed by Manton. Cauldron hasn't yet seen someone they trusted tear apart one of their best allies and the person who embodied their hope(Hero), and nearly do the same to another, similarly important character(Alexandria). They haven't seen the rise of the Endbringers and their methodical destruction of the human race, so they weren't working under a strict time limit(the original cycle was meant to last centuries, but the Endbringers would've collapsed civilization within decades and killed far too many parahumans by then, so Cauldron had to hurry up). They weren't forced to see their single greatest hope, Eidolon, waste away, lose his power and fall into depression. They weren't forced to completely abandon morals to hurry up due to the time limit.

Now, don't get me wrong, even then, they were willing to do what they saw as necessary, but it was nowhere near the first option. They did their best to avoid resorting to that stuff. There's absolutely no reason to just jump to manipulation and bond-breaking with Alex, when there are far better options to ensure his cooperation, with far less effort involved.
Cauldron merely needs to give him a cover story, and let him connect to his family, and through it, to humanity. Hell, if they had to resort to manipulation, they could just throw Contessa at him and have her PtV him into caring about humanity, using his family as one of the things tying him to Cauldron's ultimate goal - killing Scion. There's no need to resort to shadowrunning, conspiring and background string-pulling.

And that's true, they aren't on a time limit. What Doctor Mother is on, is a journey not to fuck up as hard as she already has. Originally, she would have no reason to do this, but, Contessa told her that Alex was going to be powerful, extremely powerful.

The last time Contessa told her this, Greyboy happened.

Yes, they are far more moral than they are at the start of canon. But Doctor Mother doesn't have the "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." She has the "Fool me once, I'm going to make damned sure that I don't make the same mistake again."

Yes, there are ways that this could go better or easier. However, Doctor Mother isn't taking that chance. She told Contessa to keep Alex contained, and PtV didn't bring in Alex's family because in the grand scheme of things, they're irrelevant.
 
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As @Briefvoice said, Cauldron here is basically two people, and Contessa is by the very definition of her power completely amoral at this point. Her path basically tells her the best way to save the world, and right now, keeping Alex within their purview is the best way to accomplish that.
Hang on. Contessa had a breakdown from the stress of not being able to predict Scions actions, at this point the Cauldron methodology is that Doctor Mother tells Contessa to do something and Contessa gets the best way to do it.
The last time Contessa told her this, Greyboy happened.
Grey Boy has happened at this point?
 
Grey Boy has happened at this point?

It's 1987. There was no specific date, but Greyboy joined up with King and the Slaughterhouse Nine this year, meaning he must have gotten his vial and gone through the entire acclimation before hand. Currently, he's being manipulated by Jack Slash to join him and eventually kill King.
 
Honestly, I don't see how us contacting our family would have PtV intervening to keep us contained. It's not like we can leave. And eventually they will need to let us go back to Earth-Bet, and then unless Contessa decides to intervene even more directly, they can't stop us from going home/contacting them. Super powers will start to show up relatively soon, so we can just lie and say that we appeared to die/coma and then we woke up with powers.

Alex is capable of Controlling Gravity, and that's only one of the powers that the Intensity shards give him.

Will be interesting to see what other powers the shard has given us.
 
@IKnowNothing a more interesting question to me is how you plan to hand "Path to Victory" in the context of a Quest where the PC will interact with Contessa frequently.

On one level, PTV should logically mean that we have 'free will' only for things that Contessa doesn't care about, because she has set things up so that the PC will think and do what she wants him to think and do, controlling his inputs to control his reactions. But how does that square with being able to vote his decisions?

I suppose one way is to sharply control write-in options and ensure that the offered alternatives could all be things Contessa's PTV would plausibly accept.
 
Honestly, I don't see how us contacting our family would have PtV intervening to keep us contained. It's not like we can leave. And eventually they will need to let us go back to Earth-Bet, and then unless Contessa decides to intervene even more directly, they can't stop us from going home/contacting them. Super powers will start to show up relatively soon, so we can just lie and say that we appeared to die/coma and then we woke up with powers.

...



You know that moment of realization, when you figure out you've been doing something utterly wrong?

Yeah, that's me right now.

Heads up, it doesn't feel good.

I really should have started with this, but PtV is in charge of keeping Alex contained in a sense. It's focus it to make sure Alex will believe in Cauldron's purpose and his place in it. The second that that is done, Alex can call home whenever he wants.

However, PtV wants to ensure his loyalty first then allow him to talk to his family.

I'm just gunna... be over here...wondering why it took me so long to figure that out.


@IKnowNothing a more interesting question to me is how you plan to hand "Path to Victory" in the context of a Quest where the PC will interact with Contessa frequently.

On one level, PTV should logically mean that we have 'free will' only for things that Contessa doesn't care about, because she has set things up so that the PC will think and do what she wants him to think and do, controlling his inputs to control his reactions. But how does that square with being able to vote his decisions?

I suppose one way is to sharply control write-in options and ensure that the offered alternatives could all be things Contessa's PTV would plausibly accept.

This... this is really really hard to answer without spoiling something in the future.

But I can see where you are coming from. On one hand, you can see it as basically you guys driving while Contessa holds the map. If that is the case, there isn't much point for a quote un quote 'quest' if no matter what you chose it ends up as Contessa planned.

But for the most part, Contessa won't be the one controlling things, you will. She can if she wants, but right now she has no reason to beyond getting your feet under you and training. The second that that is done, her work is done for the most part. PtV is focused on other things that will result from your actions, not dictate them.

As a mechanic, she's going to be doing things in the background to make sure that your choices stick. Take for instance, you guys going out and being heroes. She'll be in the background making sure you have a good public image to start, and you get support from congress.

Woah woah. Hold on a minute. Gravity bullshit isn't the only thing we can do?

In the grand scheme of things, controlling gravity is the weakest ability in your powerset.
 
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