She-ra Lost Hope

[Kingster]

Funny thing guys! Do you know that if you quote one post of one page and then change pages, that quotes post disappears? Yeah, Just found that, not funny at all. How do you guys do the thing were it's the post number with blue letters and pressing it leads you directly to the post?

Catching up on the thread. Some of my comments really do come as Scummy? Didn't realize that P188 came out that way to be honest, I was just saying what I got from Zaealix comment, but yeah from, whats the phrase? From the other side/perspective? it does seem scummy wow.

How does the p194 come as scummy? I was saying who I considered suspicious and why. Like seriously, someone could explain it to me?

I suppose, form what I get, the biggest thing that makes me suspicious is me changing my vote fro Shadell. Does it really seem to come out of nowhere? I mean I suppose so, apart from the first post that I mentioned her the first time indicating I found them suspicious I never made another comment regarding her I think. Focused mainly in Shalmoa. Switching my vote at the last moment does seem like I was just wanting to hammer someone? its that the expression correct? I suppose its kind of true, I wanted one of the players I found suspicious to get voted, not gonna lie that. If it was another player getting more votes I wouldn't have voted for them, I'm being honest here with that, believe or not basically?

 

[NemoMarx]

Nemo, Gun To Head give me your Top 3 suspects.

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Kingster, Zaealix, Hugh. Not necessarily in that order.

GtH doesn't necessarily get the best logic out of me, but that's roughly where I'm at.

 

[Nictis]

Funny thing guys! Do you know that if you quote one post of one page and then change pages, that quotes post disappears? Yeah, Just found that, not funny at all. How do you guys do the thing were it's the post number with blue letters and pressing it leads you directly to the post?

Catching up on the thread. Some of my comments really do come as Scummy? Didn't realize that P188 came out that way to be honest, I was just saying what I got from Zaealix comment, but yeah from, whats the phrase? From the other side/perspective? it does seem scummy wow.

How does the p194 come as scummy? I was saying who I considered suspicious and why. Like seriously, someone could explain it to me?

I suppose, form what I get, the biggest thing that makes me suspicious is me changing my vote fro Shadell. Does it really seem to come out of nowhere? I mean I suppose so, apart from the first post that I mentioned her the first time indicating I found them suspicious I never made another comment regarding her I think. Focused mainly in Shalmoa. Switching my vote at the last moment does seem like I was just wanting to hammer someone? its that the expression correct? I suppose its kind of true, I wanted one of the players I found suspicious to get voted, not gonna lie that. If it was another player getting more votes I wouldn't have voted for them, I'm being honest here with that, believe or not basically?

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Post # to a link is just hardwiring it. If you highlight text you can use the link tool in the top to hyperlink it, like this. Or if you post with BB Code instead it's [\URL='the link here']the text here[/URL] The backslash is to break the coding here.

What you can do is multiquote which will save the quotes you are using so you can put them in and arrange them however you want before making your post, or alternatively if you type some stuff into the text editor after putting a quote in SV will usually autosave.

 

[Nictis]

You also can keep a second tab open to put your typing words into. I like to copy/paste the replied into a second tab that I leave alone so I don't mess up and accidentally delete parts of my thoughts personally. Doesn't work as well on phones since they like to reload pages you flip to occasionally, but eh. Playing mafia on mobile is hell in general.

 

[Zone Q11]

Catching up on the thread. Some of my comments really do come as Scummy? Didn't realize that P188 came out that way to be honest, I was just saying what I got from Zaealix comment, but yeah from, whats the phrase? From the other side/perspective? it does seem scummy wow.

How does the p194 come as scummy? I was saying who I considered suspicious and why. Like seriously, someone could explain it to me?

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It is not the individual posts that look scummy; it is your progression when it comes to handling Shadell.
Here, read this:

First he says he would vote Shadell over hugh (P#174), but then -in the very posts you brought up- it is literally shown that Kingster was discussing on who to vote between Shalmoa and hugh.
On top of that, after some time, he parked his vote on hugh instead of Shadell (P#308).

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I suppose, form what I get, the biggest thing that makes me suspicious is me changing my vote fro Shadell. Does it really seem to come out of nowhere? I mean I suppose so, apart from the first post that I mentioned her the first time indicating I found them suspicious I never made another comment regarding her I think. Focused mainly in Shalmoa. Switching my vote at the last moment does seem like I was just wanting to hammer someone? its that the expression correct? I suppose its kind of true, I wanted one of the players I found suspicious to get voted, not gonna lie that. If it was another player getting more votes I wouldn't have voted for them, I'm being honest here with that, believe or not basically?

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(So basically you have no defense towards the reasons why I scumread you.)

You say you want one of the suspicious players to get voted out, but that is just nonsense. Even if you were to do nothing, Shadell/Shalmoa/hugh would still be top wagon. Granted, IH hopped off Shalmoa's wagon, but it wasn't as if nobody would get voted out if you were to stay on hugh's wagon. (As is evident by the last minute self-pres votes from hugh and Shalmoa.)

You say that hugh's posts of that time has dissuaded you to keep your vote on him, and I asked you to get me those posts because I couldn't find anything towny from hugh in Page 16, but I still got nothing so far.

You say you suspect Shadell. Then you never mentioned her again because you were preoccupied by hugh and Shalmoa, and when EOD arrived, instead of moving towards Shalmoa's wagon because you thought they were suspicious, you instead hopped on Shadell's wagon, for reasons which you have yet to give us.

If this isn't enough explanation as to why I think you are scum, then I would be flabbergasted.

Kingster, Zaealix, Hugh. Not necessarily in that order.

GtH doesn't necessarily get the best logic out of me, but that's roughly where I'm at.

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Cool. Now that you have narrowed down your suspects: Start voting.

 

[Nictis]

How does the p194 come as scummy? I was saying who I considered suspicious and why. Like seriously, someone could explain it to me?

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Post 194 could come across as scummy in two different ways, one of which gets excused because you're new but the other is more serious and I need to verify.

Even so between Shalmoa and Hugh I would vote for Shalmoa.

Shalmoa starting the chain/Hammer and the cop comments that Zaealix explained makes me suspect Shalmoa.

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The reason that would be excused for being new is attributing Shalmoa being the first vote against Rosen as being scummy and using someone else's reasoning for suspecting Shalmoa. There is nothing wrong with agreeing with someone else's reasoning, but scum can easily enough just follow along with Town pushing against Town in order to eliminate them without sticking their neck out by leading the push themselves. And the suspicion for starting the chain would be that being the first vote on someone, particularly in the meme phase, just isn't suspicious unless if the reasoning is suspect.

The more important reason that you would be called suspicious for this post is a retroactive one. You said you would choose Shalmoa over Hugh for the vote, but later you voted for Hugh instead of Shalmoa without any sort of progression in your views that would lead to you finding Hugh more suspicious than Shalmoa (as far as I recall. Still need to verify) which makes it seem either potentially opportunistic if both are Town, distancing if Shalmoa is scum, or just that you don't have an investment in your scumread.

No problem. Also what does checked N1 mean? Do you mean Night 1? Still new with these terms.

Also changing my vote before I forget

[X] Vote Hugh_donnetono

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Gonna be back in a bit. Internet provider is kicking the router again.

 

[Kingster]

Yeah, that makes sense. Honestly I'm drawing a blank on what to say here, Yeah I know kind off a death sentence here I suppose. I know I'm town, but yeah just saying that is stupid and gets nothing. Anyway, I suppose that it for me.

 

[Nictis]

Yeah, that makes sense. Honestly I'm drawing a blank on what to say here, Yeah I know kind off a death sentence here I suppose. I know I'm town, but yeah just saying that is stupid and gets nothing. Anyway, I suppose that it for me.

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There are eight hours left in the Day. Figure out who is more suspicious and argue against them.

 

[hugh_donnetono]

Yeah, that makes sense. Honestly I'm drawing a blank on what to say here, Yeah I know kind off a death sentence here I suppose. I know I'm town, but yeah just saying that is stupid and gets nothing. Anyway, I suppose that it for me.

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Mood. Exactly how I died in my first game, too.

 

[Nictis]

If you are Town and getting voted up in the final two hours, claim your role since we seem to be working with Day Eliminations not revealing role. It might save you, or it'll let you share any information you were holding back in fear of getting killed.

 

[hugh_donnetono]

If you are Town and getting voted up in the final two hours, claim your role since we seem to be working with Day Eliminations not revealing role. It might save you, or it'll let you share any information you were holding back in fear of getting killed.

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still 99% sure that was something screwy, not the normal game mechanic, but still good advice.

 

[Zone Q11]

Town drawing a blank upon being falsely accused is understandable, but I agree with Nictis:
You should still continue providing your reads so that -if you are actually town- we can get some insight from your perspective.

 

[Nictis]

still 99% sure that was something screwy, not the normal game mechanic, but still good advice.

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It's unlikely that it was something screwy, or that if it was something screwy that it won't be in effect today as well. It's either a subset of Shadell's role (Game is low power. Incredibly unlikely), a Day Janitor (Shadell still flipped as Town, game is low power. Rather unlikely) or the elimination just says if people are Town or Mafia. I find the last most likely, and the second more likely than the first.

 

[Nictis]

Gonna skip the Kingster ISO for now, if he's just giving up then I don't particularly care to build a case for or against him. Anyone have any particular people you'd want me to do an ISO on?

 

[hugh_donnetono]

It's unlikely that it was something screwy, or that if it was something screwy that it won't be in effect today as well. It's either a subset of Shadell's role (Game is low power. Incredibly unlikely), a Day Janitor (Shadell still flipped as Town, game is low power. Rather unlikely) or the elimination just says if people are Town or Mafia. I find the last most likely, and the second more likely than the first.

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right but I have confirmation from the gm that it's not the last one

 

[hugh_donnetono]

Gonna skip the Kingster ISO for now, if he's just giving up then I don't particularly care to build a case for or against him. Anyone have any particular people you'd want me to do an ISO on?

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Q11, Nemo, or me, whichever you think would be most interesting.

 

[Nictis]

right but I have confirmation from the gm that it's not the last one

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@Tsumugi Does the day vote usually reveal someone's exact role?

 

[Kingster]

fuckin wow, I look away from the thread for a few hours to have brunch with my grandparents and play D&D and everything explodes without me. on the one hand it's annoying, on the other hand I love it.


Oh my god dude is there not perhaps a more obvious reason why I might have assumed that, on the off chance the "n0 cop" thing wasn't just something you made up, you'd gotten a town read on me?????


aight, gonna blow-by-blow this. @Scia @Shadell that @hugh_donnetono guy is spaghetti posting, ban him.

Aw, thanks!

For the thing about you, it only very gradually became clear that that wasn't just some kind of early-game light info probing of the basically harmless variety, and by the time it did, other people were already on your case about it and I figured it would be best to let that play out before adding my own voice to it. Clearly I was mistaken. The Nemo thing was just parallelism.

For the thing about Boohoo: I didn't want to eat up a large chunk of the day pushing just one person, and so backed off - temporarily. I used the fact that I got her attention to prod her some more, but eventually she stopped responding, which actually very much increased my sus of her. I let it drop so we could focus on other things for a bit, because d1 is always best imo when there's a bunch of different cases than when it's dominated by mostly one (cough); I was planning on coming back later in the day and blasting her hard for trying to get through the day without actually saying anything of substance at all, even if just to ask what "anything of substance" would even be. Clearly though she was having genuine issues, so I'm obviously dropping that permanently.

Also thanks!

And this is the same thing - by the time it became clear I might need to, there were other people talking that I didn't want to interrupt.

Well, if you insist! Though I will add that I absolutely tried to interrogate you, you just completely ignored me


I honestly have no idea what you're talking about here. Did you mean when I pinged her asking about you? That was because you were already on both of our cases. Was it something else I'm not remembering...???


not really a fan of first person shooters tbh (I added this quote to my multi while catching up with the thread and had no idea why by the time I started actually composing this, so you get a meme! What does FPS actually mean in this context?)


but it's more fun to meme about it though


CURSE YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU


I've played various games with her in the past, I just meant she seems like enough of a derp in my experience that I could see scum!her just seeing that wagon, seeing it's hammer, and going "ooh I could maybe get them to hammer a townie early, that would be neat" and not thinking further about it.


good question


Okay, so. Lemme lay out my pov on this whole situation. You hit me with your weird hypothetical. I know, of course, that the result you should have gotten was "town", in the scenario in which you actually did that. I think "then how the hell would he have gotten not that?"; I quickly come to the conclusion that, though there are several ways it could have happened, actually answering with them, like... wouldn't have been helpful? Oh, there's a night 0 framer or transporter or witch or something, neat, I still got a red check, y'know? If it were a real accusation, that would be worth delving into, but since it's an early d1 hypothetical I assume it's not that serious an inquiry - and if I jumped to acting like it was, that'd actually probably be pretty scummy. But I still want to actually engage when someone specifically asks me something, so I flip it! "He copped hugh_donnetono? That guy's super sus! Clearly he should've gotten a red check - and he got a green instead? hugh must be a godfather!" I think it's a good bit.

As I've mentioned in this post already, at first your responses come across more like iterating the hypothetical, so I treat it that way, not taking it super seriously. It's only very gradually that you reveal that no, actually, you really are sussing me over this - but by that time, other people are on your case about how silly that is, so I just let that sit and prod around elsewhere for a bit. I am mostly ignored. Still not uber worried about it.

And now here I am again, and I see that you are still on this, and you are actually trying to kill me for it! You're using the very fact that I didn't butt in when Ori was yelling at you, and that I've been too busy today to follow up, as, ah, your whole case??? And apparently the correct answer to getting poked with an interesting silly hypothetical early on d1 was to just fuckin ignore it! Because that makes total sense!!! 😂

So, sorry bro, but -
this feels exactly like what you're doing 😂

In short, Shalmoa is trying to kill me over a nothing-ass d1 hypothetical situation. I, I think understandably, am not a fan of this situation.

[x] Vote Shalmoa

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@Zone Q11 this is the post from Hugh that convinced me, he explained his point of view and the comments against him that just convinced me basically, maybe the post wasn't too Towny as you guys say, but it clicked? Made sense to me?

 

[hugh_donnetono]

@Zone Q11 this is the post from Hugh that convinced me, he explained his point of view and the comments against him that just convinced me basically, maybe the post wasn't too Towny as you guys say, but it clicked? Made sense to me?

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I suppose the question there is "why not switch off sooner?", then. Two minutes before eod is cutting things pretty close for a bandwagon you don't think is voting scum.

 

[Kingster]

I suppose the question there is "why not switch off sooner?", then. Two minutes before eod is cutting things pretty close for a bandwagon you don't think is voting scum.

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I was busy, literally nothing else I can say to be honest.

 

[Nictis]

Alright, time for clowns.

Spoiler: Nemo

View: https://youtu.be/WDTxr7Mrkuc?t=12

Spoiler: Marx

Oh, 3 posts a real time day and not a game day. That makes more sense, I skimmed that wrong I think.

I'm kinda wondering about the early vote thing - I'm a little rusty, but it's not that unusual to have early meme votes? Just way more dangerous with hammer in play from D1. So the suspicion would have to be who noticed the hammer rule early and thought they might be able to take advantage of it, if anyone?

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My thinking is - normally if someone is gonna try and actually use the D1 meme vote, it's more of a hedge - they want to put a vote up and just keep it there quietly until the end of day and see if a swing can happen or something. Going for the hammer is a lot more obvious, but maybe with the confusion about rules you could slip it by that way? But it would definitely be a different type of gambit than usual.

It's a hypothesis worth looking at, because it's D1 and it's not like we have a ton of stuff to go from, but I'm not sure I feel certain that scums on that list. Just better probability than a blind shot, I guess?

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Pretty good start to things, already trying to find angles to pursue. Admittedly a bit early for pointing out the way to pursue this wagon. If an indicator of anything at all, if Nemo is scum then points to no scum being on the Rosen wagon. Probably not an indicator though.

That could just be basic stuff? Like any game with a Godfather has some power results get falsified, right?

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Exhibit A:

Exhibit B is Prospagnosia, yes.

And C is just that if this is lower power madness anyway I'm not sure how useful speculation about the setup is really?

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Basic clarification stuff. Moving on.

Am I misreading, or does your hypothetical also include getting something that you think is false information as a result of that check?

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This is questioning Shalmoa on the hypothetical question presented, which Shalmoa does not respond well to by stating they'll leave that wine to the reader when the answer is just yes. NAI.

I am waiting to see where this is going, mostly? It's a very specific kind of hypothetical case! But I guess that's D1 pushes for you?

(As a more specific detail, if you did know that the result was inaccurate, godfather is pretty assured on a N0 check, I would think. It's weird to imagine a N0 framer or redirect? But I'm not sure how you would know the result was inaccurate?)

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Response to hugh asking for Shalmoa vibes. Pretty fair all in all, from letting the investigation ride to finding the hypothetical itself pretty weird still.

I've never been in a game where those abilities are usable N0?

Honestly I can't recall a game with N0 copping either, but I have to take that as given in the hypothetical.



Laying out my read - if you got a scum check result on someone N0, I don't really know why you would assume that's obviously false? There's very little reason to particularly town read anyone this early.

Whereas I can at least see getting a town check on someone and thinking they looked scummy and trying to pressure on that. But I honestly don't see, other than a pretty broad rules thing, why you'd second guess a check this hard anyway. You've left that as wine, though.

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She is explaining her understanding of the hypothetical to both me and Shalmoa, me because I found the assumption of no Framers/Redirectors for Night 0 to be odd, and Shalmoa because Shalmoa was picking at the fact that both Nemo and Hugh thought of Godfather as an explanation to it.

Look, you phrased it the way you did. "Why isn't it the result I should have gotten" implies you have some idea that a different result should have happened, and that you didn't get it - ergo, that something changed or falsified the result. It's the most obvious reading of what you posted, and it's not like I didn't try to get a clarification on what you were hypothesizing?

I still don't really see how you could have meant a hypothetical scum check on N0. What effect would make town register as scum? Only a very few, and they'd have to be someone actively N0 framing Hugh or something. So it's just not a scenario that makes any sense to suggest? It's at least a much less clear reading, imo.

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It's still the most energetic anyone's been in the game, so if I wasn't engaging about this one I'd have to find much weaker tea leaves to try and read, yeah? As this all started, it's D1 and we're going to have to go from some weird hot take to get discussion.



But speaking of which, do you wanna develop this into more of an actual case? I personally think Hugh playing gremliny is kinda NAI, but I have less games with them than you, plausibly. If you've developed a read past the initial hot take the last day is probably the time to present and push it.

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Arguing with Shalmoa over the hypothetical, because Shalmoa is trying to tie Nemo and Hugh together as a mindset thing. Honestly fair, it's weirdly phrased and also intentionally skipped an important step in the process that would have made it more clear. Overall NAI.

Did the Shadell vote start with Q11, or am I reading the order wrong? I'm trying to read back over cases.

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I find the initial Q11/ Shadell votes basically look mutual defensive stuff to me? Not super strong cases or anything? The directing night actions thing might be cultural, but I can definitely see the read and I'm not sure it deserved a vote push on it's own / or that pushing back on it deserved one.

I'm not rreally sure why Rosen joined or why. Just feels strange to me? And a lot of this fire drill looks weird too? For the record.

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Vote examination.

[X] Vote Hugh

sorry running out of time

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Last minute turn vote, and that's the end of Day 1. I'd say overall a town lean, but if Nemo flips as Mafia at some point then I'd point that Hugh is definitely not Mafia. The votes ended with 6 on Shadell and 4 on Hugh, if Hugh and Shalmoa didn't agree to both switch to Shadell for some reason I still need to go back and try to understand, Hugh would have gone out with 5 or tied at 4 if Nemo didn't vote there. Too short on time for distancing.

Time for Day 2.

I wonder how much of the Shadell vote was her not defending herself, how much was people wanting a clear lead in the end, but...

The progression on it looks weird to me. Zone Q11, I think, I am more likely to read as related to the fact that Shadell had just said she wanted to push him rather than a larger case, but self defense votes are fairly understandable. (I'm less sure how to feel about the vote staying there after #330, but that's still self defense against pressure to some extent.)

Nictis sheeps Q11 basically no the basis of having a town read, I guess, and not being available for EoD. This feels like a kind of normal Nictis play, not indicative of anything either direction really.

-Rosen's move to the wagon is less clear to me - as Shalmoa summarizes, the post mentions there not being further development on that case but there's no particular reason to be more suspicious of Shadell than Zone based on it, that I can see?

From that point, the wagon basically gets piled onto without cases or evidence, because end of day fire drill stuff. I do not like Hugh's post about this, at least in that admitting you're null on someone and voting them seems like bad form, but maybe that's me? At a 3 vote tie though, there's a case for self defense, so sure.

Kingster's vote mentions the recent talk about Shadell being enough to put his vote there, but... I'm not really sure what talk. Other than the voting, there is not a lot of case building going on around this time.

Shalmoa's 406 is also pretty content less for my tastes, and... there wasn't a lot of people voting Shalmoa at the time? The self preservation argument is weak. Based on 377 I think you can argue Shalmoa was spooked about being voted leading into this whole thing, still, but...

I have basically the same thoughts I did EoD, even after rereading this fairly closely. Q11 starts off a wagon, mostly on the basis of a minor self preservation thing, and... a lot of people pile onto it without explaining reasoning or without any sort of obvious scum tell or larger case from earlier in the day? I'm still not seeing a natural progression when I look from around that point onwards.

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Starting off strong with a good analysis. Main thing I'd say is wrong here is that this is a regular Nictis move, but I was sick and Nemo actually seems to get that so she's not wrong in that sense.

That's kinda where I'm coming down - your vote was quite possibly what tipped the wagon to succeeding, which at the time was probably necessary for you to survive. But that only really makes it understandable, not necessarily good or town sided? It just does feel like... a weirdly honest thing to admit there. I might have kept it to just saying self preservation with the wagon at that point.

Play that close to EoD is pretty messy though and no one's vote positions that late are going to have time to be fully reasoned, so I also don't know how much I can analyze it though. The write up is about what I have and pressing anything further seems unhelpful.



That's a good cite and I think I missed that - I feel a lot better about the vote in that context.

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Clarification regarding Rosen, and pointed questioning towards Hugh. Not very pointed though. Still, townie.

What is the anti shenanigans part, actually? That was how you phrased it in your vote timeline was "preventing vote shenanigans in one direction, allowing them in another." And that makes me feel like there's a specific thing implied there?



In a high power game, as are common here, saying "investigate this person" is giving the mafia team an opening to transporter that member, if they are mafia, defend them, etc. Town night actions shouldn't be openly discussed before they happen in a power madness for that reason.

This game is clearly a lot less power madness than I'm used to, because we only had one N1 kill and stuff, but it's kind of part of the general culture here, I think?

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More pointed questioning towards Shalmoa, explaining the issue with directing actions to Zone.

To give some thoughts on setups around here - in most games I have played, every member of the mafia team had a power role of some kind, and town usually had about that many PRs plus 1-2?

Some of those are outliers, and I think based on the semi power madness tag here we should expect at least some vanilla mafia, but it also wouldn't be shocking if Mafia had a transporter, someone with bulletproof and a one shot second nightkill, and a godfather, for instance. (Basically just listing a half remembered Chess Mafia set up, here.) In a situation like that openly directing night actions can get the town team outplayed kinda often, so it's more common to use reads lists to hint at what the people with powers should be doing.

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I don't know the game runner very well, so I can't really speak to what kind of set up we might have here - just explaining the local culture and what roles are common here, and so what gameplay tactics are common in response to them and how people might react to different conventions.

If you want to keep suggesting things, I don't think it will hurt in this set up necessarily, but if you keep playing around here you will probably run into games where Mafia has a bus driver or other similar roles, and I think those set ups are fun and interesting in a high chaos sort of way. Prospognosia was a very interesting set up and my role there had 3 powers, even if I wasted a ton of night actions. I did in fact have unlimited alignment checks that game though, in effect.

Anyway! Set up speculation is really unlikely to be useful here, so back to the game.

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Mixture of setup expectations (Make note of if Nemo ever flips Maf) and explaining what might exist in future SV games to Zone. Also mentioned Prosopognosia as an SV game, obviously scum

I don't think you make sense as someone to push? I don't think you do what you do D1 as mafia. It was a large chunk of what got done that day, and it would be a pretty roundabout mafia play? So, not you, so I'm gonna look at building a case. I need a better list of reads anyway so I'll probably work from doing one of those.

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Responding to Shalmoa. Does not see Shalmoa as a viable scumread because Shalmoa led Day 1 around and it would be very strange as scumplay goes. I personally disagree, but eh. I don't see this as a tie between the two.

-Rosen

Playing reasonably, has had progression both times. A little absent but honestly the shorter day today is catching me off guard as well and I feel like I'm going to see a lot of people slipping around that.

-Zone Q11

Seems to be hunting actively right now, nothing in particular I find suspicious about play.

-Shalmoa

I don't think Mafia!Shalmoa does D1, and the frustration today seems genuine. Maybe some sort of really complicated play to draw attention away from a teammate, as a possible scum interpretation, but I don't really see it and I'm not looking here presently.

-InterstellarHobo

...doesn't seem to be around?

-Hugh

Kinda torn on this. There are explanations for most stuff Hugh has been doing, the self preservation vote stands up, etc. And second highest activitity, so... I guess active enough in solving?

-Seven

I don't feel like I have a strong read here, but I like getting a reads list done up today. I don't think I agree with the reads, but that happens and my judgement is often pretty bad, so I wouldn't call that indicative of things.

-Zaelix

Hey, @Zaealix, could you expand on what you meant in #456 a bit for me? What things do you think Shadell said that went against the flow of town, how do you see the wagon, etc?

-Nictis

I am usually pretty bad at reading Nictis and I'm not feeling differently here. She's sick, too, so... I guess I'm not expecting a lot of presence?

-Scia

Busy, I feel like Scia is usually a little quiet, no strong read. Seems to be putting together stuff.

-Kingster

D1 Vote progression is weird, and especially the land on Shadell didn't seem very well evidenced? Suspicious to me, albeit maybe some cultural stuff at play. P#458 is sort of an explanation for this, but if anyone on the wagon was opportunistic Mafia, Kingster might be the best fit. I think the secondary explanation is someone who's just following people they find compelling and that might explain all the moving around. I think this might depend on how you read the wagon, basically.

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Readslist in her usual style. I did a breakdown of it and she hasn't really refuted any of it so I'm assuming I read it correctly.

Kingster, Zaealix, Hugh. Not necessarily in that order.

GtH doesn't necessarily get the best logic out of me, but that's roughly where I'm at.

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Clarification of the scumreads.

Overall, I'd say Nemo is a very clear to read Townie. The logic progresses well and her thoughts are easy enough to examine.

Someone remind me of why @hugh_donnetono and @Shalmoa took the deal to stop voting each other and vote Shadell instead?

Also, if I do any more ISO's I'm going to do my more usual thing of just taking the parts that are interesting than breaking down every post.

 

[Nictis]

Oh yeah, forgot to do this.

[x] Vote Hugh_Donnetono

I am really not a fan of you and Shalmoa agreeing not to vote each other as self preservation measures.

 

[CTRosen]

Oh yeah, forgot to do this.

[x] Vote Hugh_Donnetono

I am really not a fan of you and Shalmoa agreeing not to vote each other as self preservation measures.

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I didn't actually get anything out of what I stated earlier since the conversation just, didn't do anything beyond my posts, but is there any possibility I could convince you to vote Shalmoa instead?

Going back to that "other thing" I was looking for between you and Shalmoa, that came largely from the idea that Shalmoa appeared to very much be trying to just kinda pick someone to hyperfocus on a given day, trying to dominate as much of the day space as possible to prevent people from looking elsewhere. It wasn't as much of a problem with the conversation with you, but I think the act of it happening twice is far more telling than the severity of it. Pair that with what I still believe to be a worse self-pres vote and I honestly think Shalmoa is just the better vote here.

More concise summary, the stuff between Hugh/Shalmoa is weird and convoluted by the nature of the question Shalmoa posed and used to dominate the conversation, but the stuff between yourself/Shalmoa is far more telling since it's using another somewhat questionable means of dominating the conversation (using the Executioner read as a means to determine scum equity, which seems rather silly to me).

[x] Vote Shalmoa

 

[CTRosen]

Also, I think there is something to be said about the interaction between Hugh/Shalmoa being somewhat performative in nature, but I'm less warm to that idea now in light of this Day 2.

 

[Nictis]

I didn't actually get anything out of what I stated earlier since the conversation just, didn't do anything beyond my posts, but is there any possibility I could convince you to vote Shalmoa instead?

Going back to that "other thing" I was looking for between you and Shalmoa, that came largely from the idea that Shalmoa appeared to very much be trying to just kinda pick someone to hyperfocus on a given day, trying to dominate as much of the day space as possible to prevent people from looking elsewhere. It wasn't as much of a problem with the conversation with you, but I think the act of it happening twice is far more telling than the severity of it. Pair that with what I still believe to be a worse self-pres vote and I honestly think Shalmoa is just the better vote here.

More concise summary, the stuff between Hugh/Shalmoa is weird and convoluted by the nature of the question Shalmoa posed and used to dominate the conversation, but the stuff between yourself/Shalmoa is far more telling since it's using another somewhat questionable means of dominating the conversation (using the Executioner read as a means to determine scum equity, which seems rather silly to me).

[x] Vote Shalmoa

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I'm down for that, but could you point the posts of your own you're talking about here? There's decent odds that I skimmed it in a haze and didn't actually recognize it.

[x] Vote Shalmoa