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Sartier Quest: A Tale of Song, Gods, and Trouble (CK2-Let's Go Hunt Gods, SV!)

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OneirosTheWriter said:
@Aegir - Yes, same as with the Lumen couple, he will still be available as an agent despite his Council role.
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Oh, okay then. I thought that he would be too busy to be sent out as an agent, but I had forgotten about the Lumens. I'll add that into my plan.

FriedIce said:
You're picking 'This Fence Looks Good For Sitting' for the Vicennes feud instead of 'Make Love Not War'. In my opinion, if we're to fix this conflict for any decent amount of time (I'm hoping for dealing with it for a generation, but I'll take five-ten years) then we're going to have to take an interventionist attitude to the peacemaking instead of just forcing them to sit down with each other. You have to remember, this feud was explicitly compared to Israel-Palestine in its difficulty to fix, we're not going to be able to do that by half-arsing it.
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Maybe, but I don't think we have the right position at the moment to do so. Looking a -3 relations to both sides doesn't strike me as a good answer, it strikes me as walking in and trying to throw our weight around. We don't have weight to throw around at the moment. I think the Make Love Not War approach is far too heavy-handed, especially for our very first action on this subject.

The other key difference is you've spent two actions on making the Minor Houses happy that could go elsewhere. The Minor House actions are definitely worth doing, at some point. But not right now, in such quantities. If you spent the House Rios action on commissioning ships from Carlisle we get the same number of ships, under our direct control, and the certainty of a +1 to our relationship with Carlisle (instead of only a 25% chance).
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That's a fair enough point. Especially when I'm predicating my choice on something that I forgot to get clarified by @OneirosTheWriter. Oneiros, if we don't do these actions this turn, will they stay around for the next turn, or are they one-time opportunities? I looked at them as "this is only available for this turn" kind of miscellaneous actions. As in opportunities that wouldn't stick around, which is why they were under their own heading.

Crowhunter said:
(X) Plan Aegir
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... I knew there was a vote missing from my tally. @Crowhunter, if you want your vote to count, you need to use square brackets [] instead of parenthesis.
 
Aegir said:
Oneiros, if we don't do these actions this turn, will they stay around for the next turn, or are they one-time opportunities? I looked at them as "this is only available for this turn" kind of miscellaneous actions. As in opportunities that wouldn't stick around, which is why they were under their own heading.
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They will be there next turn. In another couple turns I'll start putting countdowns on them as the Minor Houses decide to either abandon the project or else attempt to go it on their own (and if that keeps happening they may start to get cranky at their liege). But they'll certainly be there the next couple turns.

Edit: I try to be explicit where there is a foreseeable chance of an action disappearing. Obviously, if something drastic happens between turns (i.e., the topic of a character-dependent action getting bumped off, or say, pirates burning Reynolds' harbour to the ground, making the whole idea of expanding it moot)
 
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Hmm. So, I finally read the last of the options; it looks like we can suck up to Khironex a bit with Evelyn's free action.

Also, Oneiros; can we commission ships from both Vincienne and Carlisle?
Aegir said:
Maybe, but I don't think we have the right position at the moment to do so. Looking a -3 relations to both sides doesn't strike me as a good answer, it strikes me as walking in and trying to throw our weight around. We don't have weight to throw around at the moment. I think the Make Love Not War approach is far too heavy-handed, especially for our very first action on this subject.
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Well, bluntly we do have the weight to throw around. They're both Minor Houses, we're a Great House and the Ruling Symphony to boot. It's a cudgel of an approach, but we do have the power for it.

Currently comparing the two plans to see if there's anything missing I'd go for.
 
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OneirosTheWriter said:
They will be there next turn. In another couple turns I'll start putting countdowns on them as the Minor Houses decide to either abandon the project or else attempt to go it on their own (and if that keeps happening they may start to get cranky at their liege). But they'll certainly be there the next couple turns.
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Of course. Assumptions, my true enemies... Or, you know, making plans at 6 in the morning. Apparently leads to getting some quest mechanics confused with others.

Alright. I agree with friedice that those agents are better spent on Carlisle ships and Vincennes dock building. I'm still not budging on my position on Vincennes and Dale, though. Especially since that would make our plans the same, and some variety is good. Fair warning to @Bommelom and @Crowhunter that I'm going to be shifting those Agents around. I'll be updating the cost and success chances as well.

Imrix said:
Well, bluntly we do have the weight to throw around. They're both Minor Houses, we're a Great House and the Ruling Symphony to boot. It's a cudgel of an approach, but we do have the power for it.
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Okay, so we have the weight to throw around. That still doesn't make it wise to do so. This is the kind of problem that I want to devote a lot of time to, not just throw ourselves whole-heartedly at and hope for the best. If we're taking over authority for all of Sartier, we have to develop a more delicate touch than that, in my opinion, and avoiding throwing unilateral mandates at decades-long feuds seems like a bad first step. That smacks more of "bull in china shop" than "wise and considered ruler".
 
Bluh. I don't mean to ignore you, I swear >.<

... Actually, is there any kind of division between what sort of questions you and Oneiros prefer to divide amongst you to field?
 
Imrix said:
Bluh. I don't mean to ignore you, I swear >.<

... Actually, is there any kind of division between what sort of questions you and Oneiros prefer to divide amongst you to field?
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Haha, we knew it might come up like that. He's the one with more currency on this forum, too =p I'm not going to pretend like I love it, but *shrug* these things happen.

Also, he stalks these forums way more religiously than I do so he gets the upperhand in being more likely to be around when things crop up.

As far as questions, no, not really. We both have a broad understanding of everything, but our focuses are probably different. So, I can answer most questions about mechanics and options and how things work, but if you want the nitty gritty nuts and bolts of it, Oneiros is better suited. On the other hand, he can answer most questions about the world of Sartier and concepts and characters, but if you want to know the ins and outs, the theories behind why they are the way they are, details around other nations, that's probably me.

I recognise that it puts me at a bit of a disadvantage as far as this quest thread goes as well, since quest threads are usually much more about the mechanics than the rest. We're hoping that's going to change once the writing thread goes up because that's mostly my baby.

The important thing that I'd probably remind everyone here is the part in the OP where we say it's character-driven. Yes, this is a lot like your conventional quest. But the characters are important and what's written isn't just fluff and narrative. That stuff does actually matter and may contain clues or insight.
 
This is more a housekeeping request than anything else, but could one of you threadmark the starting list of agents? It'd make crafting deep plans a lot easier if I could just look up the list via the threadmarks.

Having looked at the agent list I'm going to make some minor adjustments to the plan to hopefully grab a bit of synergy from Agent Traits.
 
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That one will have to be Oneiros since he's the thread creator. I've just passed the message onto him, so that should be sorted shortly.
 
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Writing thread is up and can be found here.

For those interested, the events of the first post took place between the chargen and the first turn post.
 
[X] Plan FriedIce

Although I'd like to order ships from both Carlisle and Vinciennes, it's a minor concern in all.
 
FriedIce said:
Hmm, how big is the Royal Navy? I imagine we know.
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The Royal Navy boasts 30 Royal Triremes, double the hulls of the nearest House Navy, but also much more professional, and much better built ships as well. Pirates don't like to tangle with them, especially as their 5-ship patrol groups are wont to have a Songweaver or two, which can be very dangerous on the waves.

Much more expensive to build and run, however, which is part of why the Royal Navy carries a hefty price tag.

Their chances of triggering an intercept depends a lot on how they are deployed. At the moment, Sonissimmo is still deploying them evenly.

Edit: For a wider perspective, Sartier's Royal Navy is regarded by other strong maritime entities like the Khironex and Memphrabi in the same sort of way that the US Army tends to regard some of their allies: small, but the assets that they do have know their shit.
 
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OneirosTheWriter said:
The Royal Navy boasts 30 Royal Triremes, double the hulls of the nearest House Navy, but also much more professional, and much better built ships as well. Pirates don't like to tangle with them, especially as their 5-ship patrol groups are wont to have a Songweaver or two, which can be very dangerous on the waves.
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Wait a second... let me do the math.. 50 k upkeep mentioned here... On 30 ships... What the hell do they use to maintain those damn ships, solid gold mops? FFS... That's almost 1700 g per ship, per turn. Whereas we maintain 4 House Triremes for 1000 g... so 250 g a piece. Please say that they're inflating those costs, because that's just ridiculous. Even if half that budget is in administration and such, that's still insane.

Unless those ships can fly and shoot lightning on demand, we are so not investing in them. We'll get enough House Triremes to line them up bow to stern and walk all the way to Khironex first.

And hey, if we can do both ship-building actions at the same time, I'm all for it. What's a budget for if not to spend?

Although, we probably should figure out exactly how much we actually make a turn... :V

Oh, and OneirosTheWriter, I assume the Vincennes shipbuilding action nets us another 4 Triremes, correct? Carlisle has a total, but Vincennes does not.

Edit: One final note, the two plans are tied at the moment.
 
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[X] Aegir

There, now they're not! I think. I haven't really been paying attention recently, kind of depressed that we're playing the well-intentioned extremist and all.

1313
 
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