Res Publica: A Quest of Ancient Rome
- Thread starter Telamon
- Start date
- Original Historic
Tasoli
Life is for Living
- Location
- Behind the Keyboard.
Problem comes the general trend.
Everytime there is 2 boxes where one has puppy and other has something valuable that we don't know what it is. We always go for the puppy. So yes it is stupid. We knew that tample was a rallying point. Doesn't matter its particulars.
Also it is Vae Victis [] or bust.
We already showed carrot and got shit for it. It is time for the stick.
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- Location
- Europe
Obviously.
Aequum Tuticum was sacked only yesterday. We'll have to wait some time until we can say what Atellus got out of it.
We'll have to wait until after the campaign to say anything definite about how the Samnites will behave in the future
Bullmoose
A True Aristocrat
- Location
- Philadelphia
This factor kind is stopping me from being upset about this. One guys opinion does not mean our previous choice was wrong.
I'm sorry, did people genuinely think we were going to pacify Samnium and turn the Samnites into good Roman citizens with any degree of alacrity? This was always going to be an arduous slog of a campaign, awash with complications, and the temple was always going to be a focus and source of dissent, whether as a symbol or an active agent. (I don't want to refight past votes, but that is one of the main reasons I opted for Call It Peace.)
I'll say it again, though, that there were no good options with the temple, even before we take into account the fact that Rome is a disease in Samnite theology. It was merely deciding what flavour of trouble we were going to get.
Now can we please move on and raze Aeclanum down to the bedrock as an example of what happens when you scorn Roman mercy?
I'll say it again, though, that there were no good options with the temple, even before we take into account the fact that Rome is a disease in Samnite theology. It was merely deciding what flavour of trouble we were going to get.
Now can we please move on and raze Aeclanum down to the bedrock as an example of what happens when you scorn Roman mercy?
Always Late
Lacking in coffee, sleep, and brains
- Location
- Ohio
Leaving aside the fact we're wasting salt that could go pay our soldiers on the topic of the temple,
, I think this option is being overlooked. This guy is the closest thing they have to a leader. If the Sammites are really as bloodthirsty and fanatically religious as they're being made out to be? The town will be a bloodbath between this dude+bodyguards and the militia within moments. Easy pickings. If they don't believe us, then either this guy's a slick operator or the common farmer's really that stubborn. Or, they're not actually that fanatical.Leaving aside the fact we're wasting salt that could go pay our soldiers on the topic of the temple,
I am thinking about it, but it does have the disadvantage of discouraging people from betraying their cities to us in the future. Also, it's the sort of thing Cato might do, and the thought of behaving like Cato makes me want to vomit.
ThatGuyWithIdeas
Treize died for our sins
- Location
- Romania
Regarding the discussion of betrayal... maybe we could use Spurio in a way that we can get an advantage and still be able to inform the town of his actions.
What if we were to have the traitor Sammite destroy the food supplies of the town, have him tell us of any other Sammite army leaders that are present in the town and then send a messenger to the town informing of Spurio's treachery and use the letter to frame another commander present in the town in order to cause infighting between Sammites?
(I'm posting the idea to see what people think of it, as I have a tendency to go into complex plans very easily, and I could use opinions)
What if we were to have the traitor Sammite destroy the food supplies of the town, have him tell us of any other Sammite army leaders that are present in the town and then send a messenger to the town informing of Spurio's treachery and use the letter to frame another commander present in the town in order to cause infighting between Sammites?
(I'm posting the idea to see what people think of it, as I have a tendency to go into complex plans very easily, and I could use opinions)
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Always Late
Lacking in coffee, sleep, and brains
- Location
- Ohio
If being honorable to a bunch of foreigners is only going to result in them dissing us for it, what sense does it make to be honorable? We're under no obligation by any stretch of the imagination.
My point was that if, when someone approaches us offering to betray their citadel to us, our response is to send them back to be messily killed by their own side, it makes other potential traitors in the future considerably less likely to make similar offers.
There are benefits to giving Spurio to the Samnites, as you say. But do they outweigh the time, energy and Roman blood we'll have to expend in the future assaulting/besieging cities that would otherwise have fallen by treachery?
Always Late
Lacking in coffee, sleep, and brains
- Location
- Ohio
Well...
Depends on whether or not I'm right.
Yeah, I have to say that I am a bit sceptical in regards to just how correct our nice centurion is here, he clearly has has his own biases and it is isn't exactly surprising that a professional soldier with a grudge to bear would advocate for the the extremist option (that incidentally also gets him the most loot and prestige.) The whole temple thing was always a more long term issue and I am a bit apprehensive in judging its effect just a few days after the initial decision was made. It might yet turn out to have a more positive benefit and even if not it is clearly not the end of the world. Pacifying and romanising Saminium will be a lengthy and complicated campaign and mistakes are to be expected and do in my opinion actually add a lot to the narrative of the story and our own character.
In regards to the options I would advise against
[] Accept Spurio's offer, and have him and his soldiers come over to your side during a pivotal moment in the battle, hopefully breaking the town's spirit.
(and plans that are like that) since I am sceptical about his willingness to take such a risk (though it would be admittedly far form a rare thing to happen so I could be a bit too paranoid) and making a battle plan precipitated on it seems honestly a bit foolhardy without having more knowledge of the people/factions involved. Instead I would go with ether the tower or simply deserting one since I think that either would be enough for victory and comparatively less risky. Also a write-in in regards to be prepared for an eventual "betrayal" of Spurio might be a good idea though I would hope that experienced troops like our do think of that one of their own.
It might also be worth thinking about making him(and his men) an offer for more permanent employment, having a prominent local man on our side could be advantageous when it comes to switching other Samnites to do the same (as well as to get general information about the area) though I admit that he might not be an ideal fit for that since his social standing seems fairly low (and there is the whole can you trust a traitor to not betray you?). If we wanted to go with for example the "bend the knee option" that might still be a good idea since he could for example provide useful information in regards to who the local leaders of the resistance where and the like. But while this is something I would argue for if we were talking about a different town (and ideally a more influential man) the fact that Aeclanum has risen up despite the humiliation/warning of Sulla just a few years earlier make this mostly a fun theoretical exercise since I think a harsher fate is the the town future.
In regards to tactics I would go with the sneak option which in combination with the betrayal should be enough to ensure victory (though once again a write-in to ensure that Spurio doesn't know of the sneak attack might be worthwhile) and go with one of the first two option in regards to the cities fate. (Though a small part of me is tempted to go with the third option simple to see what options there are, how talented we are at this and to see how well it works.)
In regards to the options I would advise against
[] Accept Spurio's offer, and have him and his soldiers come over to your side during a pivotal moment in the battle, hopefully breaking the town's spirit.
(and plans that are like that) since I am sceptical about his willingness to take such a risk (though it would be admittedly far form a rare thing to happen so I could be a bit too paranoid) and making a battle plan precipitated on it seems honestly a bit foolhardy without having more knowledge of the people/factions involved. Instead I would go with ether the tower or simply deserting one since I think that either would be enough for victory and comparatively less risky. Also a write-in in regards to be prepared for an eventual "betrayal" of Spurio might be a good idea though I would hope that experienced troops like our do think of that one of their own.
It might also be worth thinking about making him(and his men) an offer for more permanent employment, having a prominent local man on our side could be advantageous when it comes to switching other Samnites to do the same (as well as to get general information about the area) though I admit that he might not be an ideal fit for that since his social standing seems fairly low (and there is the whole can you trust a traitor to not betray you?). If we wanted to go with for example the "bend the knee option" that might still be a good idea since he could for example provide useful information in regards to who the local leaders of the resistance where and the like. But while this is something I would argue for if we were talking about a different town (and ideally a more influential man) the fact that Aeclanum has risen up despite the humiliation/warning of Sulla just a few years earlier make this mostly a fun theoretical exercise since I think a harsher fate is the the town future.
In regards to tactics I would go with the sneak option which in combination with the betrayal should be enough to ensure victory (though once again a write-in to ensure that Spurio doesn't know of the sneak attack might be worthwhile) and go with one of the first two option in regards to the cities fate. (Though a small part of me is tempted to go with the third option simple to see what options there are, how talented we are at this and to see how well it works.)
Thething that makes me sceptical about Spurio is that he comes from a city that is a known hotspot, where people live that hate us.
And then he comes to us just because we walked up to the city? I wouldn't trust him as far as I can throw him. If he's this ready to beray his people to us, how fast will he be to betray us?
And what is our objective here? If it is to take the city, using Spurio would be a good way to minimize our losses.
As we cannot trust Spurio, we cannot count on him aiding us in battle.
Destroying the food supply is not certain to make them give up, we would still need to storm the city and the inhabitants would just get more desperate. And fighting desperate men is a sure way to rack up casualties. There are too many stories about how desperate people fight when besieged.
No, the best way would be to drive a wedge into the Samnites, and the only wedge we have at the moment would be Spurio.
I propose this, beacause by acting such we would be able to best preserve our fighting strength while at the same time remove a known trouble spot from our legions back, allowing our general to more fully concentrate on our main objectives instead of having to constantly split his attention.
And then he comes to us just because we walked up to the city? I wouldn't trust him as far as I can throw him. If he's this ready to beray his people to us, how fast will he be to betray us?
And what is our objective here? If it is to take the city, using Spurio would be a good way to minimize our losses.
As we cannot trust Spurio, we cannot count on him aiding us in battle.
Destroying the food supply is not certain to make them give up, we would still need to storm the city and the inhabitants would just get more desperate. And fighting desperate men is a sure way to rack up casualties. There are too many stories about how desperate people fight when besieged.
No, the best way would be to drive a wedge into the Samnites, and the only wedge we have at the moment would be Spurio.
I propose this, beacause by acting such we would be able to best preserve our fighting strength while at the same time remove a known trouble spot from our legions back, allowing our general to more fully concentrate on our main objectives instead of having to constantly split his attention.
Regret to not call peace yet?
It is different time,we need to look at it with people who live in that time perspective.
- Location
- United States
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Forgive anything once and nothing twice is a fairly decent rule of thumb.
I'm this case I say we go Car Vitis. They defied Rome once, got off lightly, with the walls left destroyed. Them they defied Rome again....
A message must be sent.
"Men are to be well treated or destroyed. For small injuries they might revenge themselves, but for great ones they cannot."
- Location
- NY
Spurio cannot be trusted, that is clear enough. Paying him...out of whose pocket? Out of the Legion's loot? To leave an enemy fighting force intact when it's crystal clear what the men think of leaving anything of Samnium intact? That's an amazingly terrible idea in every regard I can think of.
We have the First Cohort against a bunch of half-starved farmer militia. Send Spurio back with his tail between his legs, inform the town of his attempted betrayal, and offer them the following terms: half of the treasure in the town, the heads of Spurio and all his 'officers', complete disarmament, and an oath sworn before their priests in their temples that neither they nor their descendants shall take up arms against Rome ever again. If they fail to respond in half a day, the entire First Cohort will march on their town, slaughter all resistance, and burn every last hovel to the ground. If they refuse, the same happens. If they go back on their oath, the same happens, and all their lives are forfeit.
We have the First Cohort against a bunch of half-starved farmer militia. Send Spurio back with his tail between his legs, inform the town of his attempted betrayal, and offer them the following terms: half of the treasure in the town, the heads of Spurio and all his 'officers', complete disarmament, and an oath sworn before their priests in their temples that neither they nor their descendants shall take up arms against Rome ever again. If they fail to respond in half a day, the entire First Cohort will march on their town, slaughter all resistance, and burn every last hovel to the ground. If they refuse, the same happens. If they go back on their oath, the same happens, and all their lives are forfeit.
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- Location
- Classified
How much money is ten talents, relatively speaking? We're spending it on fifty guys, how much is that per guy?
Also, do we know how much the loot from the other town is?
Whatever we do, I definitely don't want to try and get these guys to fight for us. Even if this is an honest offer, they're making this offer because they're scared. These are not people to rely on in a fight.
Also, do we know how much the loot from the other town is?
Whatever we do, I definitely don't want to try and get these guys to fight for us. Even if this is an honest offer, they're making this offer because they're scared. These are not people to rely on in a fight.
Talents and Denarii
- Location
- Texas
A gold talent is roughly equal to 6,000 silver denarii. One denarius is what the average laborer makes in a day. An officer like Mercator makes four a day, and you earn 500 a month (adding up your pay as a tribune and your other sources of income). You are relatively well off compared to the average Roman, so a single talent is about a year's pay for you.
The worth of the loot the cohort took from the town is about sixty talents, to be divided equally among the five thousand men, so about 72 denarii per man — little more than half a month's pay for a centurion like Mercator.
Essentially, ten talents of gold is a sizable amount for a relatively impoverished noble like yourself, but for a soldier or a common man, it's a fortune. To an officer, it's a decent gain — and to a bandit, it's more than enough to abandon an already doomed cause.
To put this in perspective, the Roman Marcus Licinius Crassus, one of the richest men in Roman (and human) history, will eventually amass a fortune equal to 8,333 talents — roughly 50 million denarii, or $20 billion dollars in today's money.
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- Location
- Texas
- Location
- Classified
Jesus christ. We've got to haggle this guy down, I'm not paying a full sixth of our loot, taking money from our soldiers, for the assistance of fifty half starved farmers.
- Location
- Canada
[X] Plan Mercator
-[X] Reject Spurio's offer and send a messenger to the town informing them of his attempted betrayal.
-[X] Charge
-[X] Vae Victis
-[X] Reject Spurio's offer and send a messenger to the town informing them of his attempted betrayal.
-[X] Charge
-[X] Vae Victis
- Location
- Texas
Actually, Spurio's fifty bandits are probably some of the healthiest and best-fed men in the town, with the majority of the militia other than them consisting of said starving farmers. They're loyal to coin first, Spurio second, and Samnium a distant, distant third.