Res Publica: A Quest of Ancient Rome

noliar · Apr 15, 2018

Telamon said:
Ah, yes. Romans. The sneakiest people. Throughout history, they have come up with such dazzlingly complicated and masterful intrigues as 'get together and stab him to death in public', or the almost equally famous 'climb up on top of a building and throw the roof tiles at him until he dies'.

Truly, the masters of subterfuge.

That's what they want you to think.

Unfortunately, if they're keeping a bunch of citizens subdued they'll be guarding anything critical quite strongly because they know there's already a threat inside the walls.

Nurgle · Apr 15, 2018

Ok so I think we should drag out the siege as long as we can and winter camp. Since sneaking won't work and attacking would cost too many lives. The only other action I see is build up and attack all out next turn. Since winter is coming.

Pandemonious Ivy · Apr 15, 2018

So I guess, I'd tentatively propose something like:

[]Write In: Three Point Breach
-[] Point One: Have soldiers block off the aqueduct sending water to the city.
-[] Point Two: In order to distract from One, start carefully attempting to bring down the main gate, by any means necessary.
-[] Point Three: After One and Two are fulfilled, at an appropriate time, draw attention to the army at the open main gate while sending a group of Gauls to infiltrate via the aqueduct.

Relatively simple, complements one another gracefully, should hopefully minimize casualties and the amount of time spent on the siege, which everyone would appreciate.

globalwarmth · Apr 15, 2018

@Telamon

so is undermining the walls an option? Do we have engineers capable of that or would we need to call for experts?

Telamon · Apr 15, 2018

Oshha said:
Hey, if you can do something so blatant and get away with it, you could call it pretty masterful.

Yes, that's true.

However, Brutus and his fellow assassins did not exactly, uh...'get away with it'.

Always Late · Apr 15, 2018

Telamon said:
Ah, yes. Romans. The sneakiest people. Throughout history, they have come up with such dazzlingly complicated and masterful intrigues as 'get together and stab him to death in public', or the almost equally famous 'climb up on top of a building and throw the roof tiles at him until he dies'.

Truly, the masters of subterfuge.

Well that's what happens when you decide to model your city's origin story after a great power who got taken down in no small part from being deceived.

Caesar said:
Or, my personal favourite, the 'just throw a fucking javelin at him on a public road.'

This is why we need to invent the Urban Cohorts early: a politically unaligned force to keep the senatorial gangs and assassins in check.

Oshha · Apr 15, 2018

Telamon said:
Yes, that's true.

However, Brutus and his fellow assassins did not exactly, uh...'get away with it'.

It depends ib how you define getting away with it. They managed to get away with the initial action, but got caught later. They got away with it from a short term perspective, but they didn't get away with it from a long term perspective.

Ridiculously Average Guy · Apr 15, 2018

Any chance we could flood the city?

Dam the Aqueduct's source just past it so as to force a ton more water to flow down the aqueduct than normal. Eventually the city will flood. Even if it's not a particularly bad flood, the increased mud and moisture will be literally killer once winter hits.

globalwarmth · Apr 15, 2018

Ridiculously Average Guy said:
Dam the Aqueduct's source just past it so as to force a ton more water to flow down the aqueduct than normal. Eventually the city will flood. Even if it's not a particularly bad flood, the increased mud and moisture will be literally killer once winter hits.

thats not how those work

they are elevated open air canals, any overflow just spills below.

Nurgle · Apr 15, 2018

Yeah I do not think we are going to beat these by trying to be clever. It is a well fortified city that can last years, like it did in the past.

So our options are use subterfuge to find someone to open the gates , wait them out, or a all out attack.

Ridiculously Average Guy · Apr 15, 2018

globalwarmth said:
thats not how those work

they are elevated open air canals, any overflow just spills below.

We can still force it to work at max flow constantly, as if from constant rain.

At which point, lacking Roman engineers, they'll probably be forced to dam it off themselves from inside. Assuming they don't outright break it.

They might end up causing a drought themselves. Even if they don't, the excess water will probably will probably turn the base of their walls into mud (and then ice), weakening them enough for us to break/topple them in seige come spring.

Simon_Jester · Apr 15, 2018

Thyreus said:
That information has been part of the character sheet for a while now.

Ah. My apologies, I had forgotten. @Telamon , sorry for the false alarm. Though it just occurred to me... could we get the bonuses that come from troop veterancy levels posted on the main sheet? That's another one of those 'yeah we need to refer to that a lot' things, and I'm having trouble finding it.

So. Reactions!

Telamon said:
Green/Veteran Split: 3 half-green Cohorts, 5 Average, 1 Skilled, 1 Elite, 1 Skilled Auxiliary

So, when Sertorius sent us to Bovianum, the legion's bonus distribution was something like 3(-3)+1(-1)+4(0)+1(+1)+1(+3)+0(0) = -6; a randomly chosen cohort would, statistically speaking, have a -0.6 on the die roll (or rather, a hefty chance of rolling at a sizeable malus)

Now it's 3(-1)+5(0)+1(+1)+1(+3)+1(+1) = +0.2; fewer of our cohorts have maluses and the maluses are greatly reduced. From Sertorius's point of view this is a major advantage, because it's removed a dangerous, potentially crippling soft spot from his legion. In effect, training up the green troops raised the entire army's skill level, because if every cohort rolls on the dice, the average modifier applied for experience has increased by 0.8.

Allied Cities: Bovianum (7/10), Aquilonia (5/10), Bovianum Vetus (3/10), Alife (5/10)

Hm, Allifae/Alife is a city in the Vulturnus river valley, but the Vulturnus stretches quite a ways beyond Bovianum and its environs, so I doubt it's part of Tercerian's turf. It's described as being close to Campania. Is this the Hirpini 'capital' at which Sertorius persuaded them to join his cause?

Campaign Profit: The tallied loot and profit for the legion(s) from this campaign currently amounts to 67 talents and 1,200 denarii of gold. The payout after the campaign ends, once the required sums are given to the city and the officers, is currently 32 denarii to a man, a sum equal to 14% of a full year's pay.

Huh. Okay, yeah, that's not amazing. On the other hand, we've only been on the march for a few months anyway, so it's not that bad. Nola is almost certainly going to wind up getting sacked, which will add money to the overall kitty.

There is much to deal with in the aftermath of the Battle of the Tabelline Gate. Your men spend hours picking through the ruins of the dead, identifying their friends and brothers, and taking the corpses off for burial. A funerary mound is erected by some of the soldiers of the Ninth cohort, a great mass of rocks piled on the site of the battle. The men debate amongst themselves whether to memorialize the names of every cohort that fought, every man that died, every century that lost men, or some mix of all three. Finally, they settle for simply carving the legion's name into the largest of the rocks, with the simple declaration that the Sixth Legion Under Mars fought and bled here, under the command of Quintus Cingulatus Atellus, in the Six Hundred and Sixty-Ninth Year of Rome.

If we were Spartans this would be laconic. Since we're not Spartans, we'll just have to go beat up the Spartans and steal their word.

...Come to think of it, the Romans deciding to do that would explain SO MUCH about them.

But yeah, that's the trouble with monuments constructed as a field improvisation when you have to literally chisel them out of stone. On the other hand, Atellus might want to think about arranging to have a somewhat nicer and more permanent monument erected at a later date. He's a young man with hopefully a half-century career in front of him, so putting a bit of effort and investment into memorializing his early victories has a lot of time to pay off.

With Gemino's death, your spies and informants report, organized resistance among the Pentri has essentially ceased entirely. Tercerian and his three thousand are all that remain, and they are anything but 'organized'. The earliest reports from the Valley of the Vulturnus indicate that this latest defeat has further demoralized the tyrant's rebels, who grumble that their crops go untended and their families unfed, even as any chance of victory dwindles. Any attempt by Tercerian to raise his forces up and lead them from the valley en masse would probably end with his death, and his frustrated men dispersing home.

Yeah, that's about what I expected. Tercerian couldn't get his men to get off their asses and hit us while we were still weak and poorly established; he wasn't going to be able to get them to move out in the immediate aftermath of Gemino's defeat. The big concern is, will his men stay in the upper Vulturnus valley during the winter? They have a harvest to take in, but if the harvest is inadequate (say, because they were busy playing soldier under Tercerian), then they have a problem that can only be solved by stealing somebody else's food.

At which point they may feel no great gratitude towards Tercerian for being the author of this ruinous farce, but even if they run up Tercerian's head on a pole, some other man from within their ranks may well manage to unite some or all of the Vulturnus valley rebels to steal food, either by marching down the river into our operational area (the territory of the Hirpini?), or overland to Bovianum and its surroundings.

Riders return from across the lands of the Pentri, bearing declarations of unconditional submission to Rome from across the hills. Those cities who saw Gemino as their last and best hope have begun to submit, among them Bovianum Vetus, the sister city of the first, which was burnt and sacked by Sulla. It has long been a source of rebel recruits and anti-Roman sentiment due to this harsh treatment, but now its elders seem to have seen the wisdom of submitting to Rome. You will march for Nola with Northern and Northwestern Samnium firmly under Rome's thumb — but only time may tell how that will change without a strong Roman presence in the area.

Yeah, still a potential for this to become a problem area again in the winter or spring, though the problems in question will likely be easier to manage.

Before setting off for Nola, you make a cursory stop at Bovianum to auction off what slaves you can and to take care of what few affairs remain. Rufus and his servants have taken care of affairs admirably in your absence, with Rufus mopping up what little dissent remained in the city by mollifying the elders and patricians of the Pentri. He has built up a following for himself in the city, picking up several servants and allies by acting the part of the sympathetic advocate, while you provided the uncompromising judge to contrast him against. This strategy, you reflect, has worked wonders for the both of you.

Woo, you go Rufus! Yay!

You appoint Himatus as the temporary governor of the town, entrusting him to enforce the will of Rome in the area and to ensure that the remnants of Gemino's rebels are driven to ground. He makes clear his intention to retire from the post and move to Rome as soon as the war is over, meaning the city will likely require a new governor within the year -- a fact, of course, which does not concern you, as you will be long gone from Samnium by then.

True, although:
1) We should probably consult Himatus about his successor.
2) Weighing in on that future decision as Sertorius's local advisor might give us the leverage we need to gain, in the long term, another client.

The Ninth sets about the task of dismantling the fortifications it erected only a scant few months earlier. The engineers and the legionnaires manage to dismantle the impromptu fortress in a fraction of the time it took to assemble it, efficiently redistributing the supplies in the baggage train for later use by the legion. In a day's time, the hill where the camp sat is bald and clear, and there remains not even the faintest sign that two thousand men lived and slept upon it for well upon three months. Indeed, when the Ninth are done dismantling all the temporary fortifications, outposts, and camps, there is little sign that Rome was here at all -- yet though Rome leaves in flesh, in spirit she will never leave these lands again.

Classical Roman approach of dismantling their camps, yeah. [Archaeologists the world over wave fists angrily]

As you ride away from Bovianum, the long line of the cohorts trailing behind you, you reflect on these last months. You have shouldered enormous responsibility and handled it admirably, tactfully negotiating with the elders of the Pentri while managing the legal and administrative apparatuses of an entire city. You have not only succeeded, but succeeded wildly, accomplishing all that Sertorius had hoped for and more.

Yeah, our first adventure in the direction of imperium, and it went great!

Thanks primarily to your actions, the famously stubborn Pentri have succumbed at long last to the fate of the Etruscans, the Volsci, and the Latins before them: they have bent the knee to Rome. In time, their children and their children's children will speak as Romans speak, live as Romans live, and serve as Romans serve. You have put no cities to the sword, no families to the blade, burnt no fields and slaughtered no towns -- but you have ended the Pentri as surely as if you had razed them to the earth. Their story, their myth, their culture and their history that have survived the centuries -- it ends here, now, with you.

That thought rests on your mind until long after Bovianum has dwindled away on the horizon.

As I mentioned, the Pentri will probably survive at least a little better than if Sulla had razed them to the Earth in five years' time, which is what would have happened in OTL. So, consolation prize.

Rewards:
4250 XP to Diplomacy, Administration, and Law
(6750/8000) XP to Diplomacy Rank 10!
(4535/9000) XP to Law Rank 10!
(4250/5000) XP to Administration Rank 6

I'm not sure if there's a typo here for Diplomacy or not. If there isn't, we should REALLY think about burning our free XP on Diplomacy to boost our bonus from +1 to +2. We're leveraging that skill hard during this campaign, and probably during any and all future campaigns we may serve in. If there is a typo, we might actually still have enough free XP (the requirement would be 2250 instead of 1250), and it might still be worth it.

You have not looted the Pentri or their cities, and what gold your cohorts recovered from raiding bandit hideouts and rebel encampments has gone to feeding the army. However, you have made several connections among the merchants of the Pentri, and encouraged them to seek your vineyard for their wines in the future. Some of them may well take you up on it. (Monthy Income increased by 80 denarii until 76 BC!)

Woo-hoo! That's roughly one talent per year for about ten years. Comparable to the money we'd have made from sacking a modest city, but amortized over time so we can't blow it all in one place.

Trait Weakening: Enemy of the Samnites (Rank I): You have not reinforced this trait in some time, and/or have taken actions to reduce it severely. This trait will fade or reduce in Rank in 1 Turn.

Yay! That's going to help us, especially if we don't go all Mercator on the enemy (that is now a meme for me) on Nola and fight the siege battle next turn.

August 10th 85 BC
669 Years After The Founding Of Rome
The Year of Flaccus and Marius.

You see Nola on the horizon from miles away, a speck surrounded by a veritable sea of men, a sprawling field of tents and campfires and training grounds. The siege is well underway, and the men have already settled in for the long haul, planting their feet before the walls of the city. To the ordinary man, it would simply look like the camp of an army at siege, filled with all the hustle and bustle such an endeavor might require.

As noted by others, Nola has strong fortifications and probably high walls, but apparently the fortifications encompass a small area and are fed by an aqueduct. Strengths and weaknesses.

On the other hand, if we're effectively besieging a small citadel around Nola and not a large town fully enclosed by walls, due to there being construction outside those walls (thanks @Caesar )... Well, that means they're more likely to be well-supplied, both literally and figuratively. Cutting the aqueduct and their food supplies matters less if there are fewer dependents inside the 'city' walls. On the other hand, if the dependents of the city of Nola are all packed inside those small walls, then that means they are extra double plus vulnerable to supply interruptions, because crowding and numbers will exacerbate the lack of water and food.

But your eyes, trained by months in the legion, can pick out some...oddities. For one thing, the auxiliaries are camped apart from the main force of the legion. The orderly Roman tents in rod-straight rows contrast starkly with the mass of huts and tents that is the camp of the Hirpinic auxiliaries. The cramped alleys and haphazard placements of the Hirpinic tents invites disorder, disarray, and confusion -- all things frowned upon in the legions.

Tercerus, surveying the siege at your side, scoffs. "Sertorius would never tolerate this disarray. Where are their ranks? How are they supposed to assemble with anything resembling speed?"

Mercator, next to him, scowls deeply before speaking. "The Hirpini do not rejoice in fighting those they so recently held as brothers. Their elders have come over to Rome, but there is yet unrest in the ranks. They are a warlike sort, not given to the structure of the legions, and their commanders have already clashed with Sertorius more than once over the layout of their camps. He would force them with heavy hand, but fears driving any portion of them to side with their kinsmen within the walls."

Rufus, on your other side, raises an eyebrow. "It seems to my eyes that there are far more of them than there are of us. Our own arrival closes the divide, but should they chance to ally with Appius and strike final blow against Rome..."

Tercerus, as ever, finishes eloquently. "We'd be fucked."

Yeah, I'm coming around to the view of some of the other questgoers that this is a high priority to deal with. Note that this mainly means talking to the Hirpini, not so much to the Romans.

Sertorius greets you with smiles and applause, and the legion much the same, if somewhat subdued. Yes, their beloved Tribune has returned, but this time he brings no spoils, no gold to feed their families or put food in their children's bellies. Your victory is well-celebrated, however, and word of your maneuvers at the Tabelline Pass spreads throughout the camp, impressing Roman and Samnite alike. Your own men are more than glad to see their friends and brothers again, and taunt them with tales of 'real' victory won in the northwest while they sat here on their asses and did nothing.

Well, our reputation didn't grow among the legion for this victory, or at least not among the legionnaires who didn't serve with us, but that was perhaps to be expected.

"Gemino, then. By all accounts, an admirable victory. And you've even managed to rein the Gauls in, I see. Veniximaeus, you old bastard, I trust you didn't give him too much trouble?"

The Gaul grins toothily. "Too much trouble? Ha! You Romans have reared a fine one here. The boy can hold his drink, and talk a good game too. I've never met a Roman could make a pack of Gauls respect him, but this one comes close."

Sertorius nods, a smile twitching at the corners of his mouth. "A ringing endorsement, from you."

Yeah, this is good. We have a reasonably solid bond with the Gallic cavalry. That's going to give us good options for personal participation in skirmishing and outriding actions on the 'outside' of the siege, allowing us to continue to build up experience. It also gives us a chance to build up experience in maneuver warfare, something that is very helpful. Roman infantry may be very fast on the march, but they're still infantry and to some extent their tactics are built around the mindset of infantry. Having some experience as a cavalry commander could pay off in terms of our future ability to strategize and outmaneuver our enemies. Especially insofar as it lets us capitalize on that Roman ability to march to the greatest possible extent.

Pompolussa, boasting a long, fresh scar down the side of his face, speaks up. "He knows how to fight, at least. 'S more than I can say for the other one."

Rufus snorts, scratching at his beard with an arm you have just noticed is actually somewhat muscular. "Bold words from a man who left more than a few pieces of himself back in Bovianum."

The old soldier laughs, at that. "Oh, the lawyer has a bite! Oh gods, if only our swords were as sharp as his tongue -- we might have Samnium by now."

As others have noted, Rufus's sharp tongue may cut him some day. Imagine if he'd thrown a gibe at Pompey, the young man of considerable power, great ambitions, and very fucking vindictive personality. Not so good. On the other hand, we can laugh off his sarcasm and rely on him as a skilled and able friend. Castor to our Pollux, or possibly the other way around.

In so many words, Sertorius lays out the situation as it stands. The legion has roughly 5,000 men, and combined with the 3000 auxiliaries the Hirpini sent to assist in the siege, there are 8000 men under his direct control. The forces under Meddix Appius are some 4,500 men encamped within the city. The walls of Nola, however, are some of the strongest in central Italia, having stood against Hannibal a famed three times. Even during the Social War, the Samnites only took the city by treachery, when one of the city's Elders betrayed it to the Samnites in return for thirteen talents of gold. Besieging it will no doubt be a long, tedious affair, one likely to last months and possibly years. The growing tensions between the Hirpini and the Romans could undo everything the legion has worked for in Samnium, but if they can be browbeaten into obedience until the city falls, the Samnites, the most intractable of all the Italic tribes, might at long last bend the knee to Rome.

As noted, Nola has potential logistical weak points, depending on how many dependents are forted up in the city. The small area of the fortifications according to @Caesar means they're pretty limited in what can be drawn from within the walls (can only have so many wells, not much room for gardens or anything to eke out their food supply). The fact that there was apparently a large community outside the walls could be good for the defenders or bad. If Meddix Appius drove the civilians away when he (presumably) tore down their buildings so they couldn't be used by the Romans as cover, then the fighting men inside Nola probably feel some bad blood towards him over that decision, but the city's granaries and water supply are likely to be fully devoted to supporting Meddix's men, enabling him to stand a long siege. By contrast, if the civilians retreated into the walls, he has a better morale situation, but his food and water requirements are a lot steeper, and he is less likely to be able to weather the loss of the aqueduct.

An important decision stands before Sertorius, however. With the eighth month nearly halfway over and the ninth fast approaching, he must decide on what to do should the siege stretch into the winter months. Protracted sieges have been carried through the winter, true, but the entire region is riddled with banditry, and initial reports say the harvest in the surrounding towns, while fair, was not enough to feed both the townholds and eight thousand men. So, the question remains -- what to do should winter come?

The officers immediately erupt into arguments. Eventually, after an hour of bickering, several schools of thought emerge among the officers, each spearheaded by a different member of the inner circle. One group, led primarily by Carcellus, feel the legion should fall back to nearby Beneventum for the winter. Well-stocked and full, it ought to feed the legion for the winter months. There is another divide within this group -- whether or not to leave a cursory force to hold the siege, and reinforce them with food and supplies weekly, or to pull the entire legion back to Beneventum and simply have a cohort hold the roads out of Beneventum to stop supplies from getting in, with scouts watching the city itself to report any activity.

Er... did you mean the roads out of Nola? Or the roads out of Beneventum? Are they protecting our supply lines or interdicting Meddix's? This is a bit confusing.

Now, the problem with this approach is obviously that it lets Meddix replenish his strength and rebuild his defenses over the winter, assuming he can get supplies in- and Italian winters aren't so harsh that this would be out of the question. On the other hand, if we can cement our ties to the Hirpini and train up, we may be a more formidable force in the spring too. And by turning the Hirpini and the Pentri against the Samnite-rebel cause, we've done a lot to put a dent in Meddix's potential for recruitment, especially since there have been no fresh Roman atrocities since Aeclanum.

Another group, led by Pompolussa and Rufus, decries this as folly, insisting that the legion should instead build winter quarters and lodge within them. This would require careful protection of your supply lines, and would mean your men might on some days be just as hungry and cold as the men within the city walls -- perhaps even moreso. However, it would allow you to continue the siege unbroken. If you were attacked from behind in the winter, however, it could end disastrously.

This leaves us exposed and relatively vulnerable- potentially under siege ourselves if, say, some charismatic leader emerges among Tercerian's rebels, deposes him, and leads his men down the river in search of food and victory. If we pursue this strategy, keeping morale up over the winter will also be critical for the legion. We should definitely take morale and religious options, in addition to "secure food for the troops" options. And we might want to consider sending the Hirpini home until after the spring planting simply because it's possible that their loyalty will slip despite our best efforts.

The final group, led, rather predictably, by Mercator, advocates no defensive measures whatsoever, instead proposing to throw the full force of your time and energy behind cracking the walls of the city, building siege engines, and finding ways to tire the defenders more quickly. If the city falls before the winter, there will be no need for winter plans, he reasons.

The badass option. If we have good enough engineers to break the fortifications this is a good plan. Key word there, "if."

Siege
As broad-striped Tribune, you have many duties to see to during the siege, but there are also several tasks that, while they do not officially need your attention, could certainly benefit from it. As well, there are, as always, the myriad responsibilities which are continuously cropping up that you should see to at some point.

Ahem. Point about my interpretation of this.

A Law Beyond The Sword is not our duties as a tribune, and neglecting it is not neglecting our duties. No more so than any of the other options we can choose here is. Setting up a table and listening to every Tom, Dick, and Harry in the legion dump complaints on us is not mandatory, we are not required to do it. Especially not if it gets in the way of, say, our seeing to the men's training and equipment, patrolling the countryside to stop Samnite bandits from literally eating our lunch, or doing what we can to support the siege/encampment preparations.

Or, for that matter, training and preparing our mind and body to become a better Roman officer. ALL of these things are part of our duties; we are more than just a morale officer, as our successful subjugation of much of northern Samnium hopefully illustrates.

[] Engines of War: You begin pushing for the construction of powerful siege engines, devoting your intelligence and skill to procuring more men to help build them, more resources to construct them, and, if you have the knowledge, putting them together.

Very appealing, but not within our skill set. We may learn something about engineering just by watching and taking notes, though, and that would be awesome.

[] A Crack in the Walls: You begin attempting to make contact with unhappy elements within the walls of the city, using your charm and not a bit of luck to make contact with men you hope may be willing to betray the Samnite cause from the inside out.

Also appealing, and more within our skill set. This may be our best option to actually influence the duration of the siege; if we choose Plan Mercator (which banks on finishing the siege before winter) we should probably place this option highly.

[] A Matter of Allies: Many in the Roman camp trust the Hirpinic auxilaries about as far as they could throw their entire army, and the feeling is almost entirely mutual. You attempt to impress upon the men the importance of accepting the Samnite auxiliaries as their brothers-in-arms.

An important but indirect way to improve relations with the Hirpini.

[] A Matter of Allied Officers: You begin speaking to the officers among the Hirpini and attempting to convince them to support Rome, as you did their Pentri cousins. These officers, while not the source of much of the dissent in their ranks, could certainly do more to quell it if they felt so inclined.

In my opinion this is an even more important way to improve relations with the Hirpini, because it is less indirect.

[] Training: The men you took with you to the north have been hardened by battle, it is true, but some of them have not fully shaken off the dew of civilian life. You begin subjecting them to a harsh training regimen in order to bring them all up to par.

More training will help us in battle. Good option on general principles. If we DON'T pick Plan Mercator, though, we should probably avoid this and focus on training up the troops over the winter. Hey, it worked for Washington at Valley Forge, and we'll probably be better fed than him. Probably. Though Plan Pompolussa could push us in that direction.

[] Outriders: You take the Gallic auxiliaries and begin scouring the surrounding area for rebels and rebel-allied bandits, hoping to tighten the noose and reduce the amount of food which slips through the barricades into the city by hidden means.

Simple option, likely to help no matter what strategy we pursue, capitalizes on our relationship with the Gauls. Also one of the few options likely to involve offensive military action this turn, thus triggering the buff we got from that awesome augury we had at the Battle of the Tabelline Gate.

[] An Army Marches On Its Stomach: You visit the outlying towns and cities, hoping to procure extra food for the legions by convincing the elders of these towns to donate to the war effort, as it's in their best interests.
--[] You take a few legionnaires with you and set about 'convincing' them to 'donate'.

Also a option. Less likely to help in the long term than Outriders in my opinion. Because convincing people to supply us helps little if the bandits can steal all the food, as we learned when dealing with Gemino.

[] A Matter of Wealth: Some of the men feel their share of the loot is a bit too small, and have taken to complaining about it rather loudly. It is Carcellus' duty to administer discipline, but if you stepped in and saw to their problems directly, you could improve your standing among the men.

Good for morale and our popularity, but maybe not the best choice. Also, as noted, we probably don't want to try and outshine Sertorius for popularity in the legion at this early date in our career.

[] A Law Beyond The Sword: The men often have simple issues, complaints, or grievances which they wish to address. As broad-striped tribune, it is your duty to see to these. One afternoon, you set up a table in the middle of camp and invite men to come air their grievances before you, and perhaps even raise a case against a fellow soldier.

It's a good option, but we have SO MUCH else to do. And as noted in earlier updates, we waste a lot of our time listening to whiny babbling idiots when we take this option. I oppose this, because while doing it initially was good for our reputation with the men, by now they know they can bring complaints to us even if we're not setting up a table to entertain every random bozo in the Sixth who has a grudge.

[] Maintenance: Though it is the Camp Prefect's duty to ensure maintenance of equipment and materials, you begin to rigidly enforce the proper maintenance of personal weapons and armor. Through reduced rations and corporal punishment, you will force the men to ensure their equipment does not rust or rot.

A good choice, but one that could backfire in terms of our popularity. Other things will probably do more to improve the legion's combat strength.

[] Blessed By Mars: Sertorius has made clear his intentions to honor Mars as the patron of the Sixth Legion, and the nickname given to the legion, the Blessed-By-Mars, has already filled the men with a sense of pride and driven up Mars worship in the legion. You begin to enforce and codify this practice, trying to encourage commonplace worship of Mars (in his aspect as Gradivus the Soldier-God).

I'd like to pursue this option, if not now then over the winter.

[] Justice Beyond The Walls: You begin cracking down on even minor offenses and crimes, making it more than clear that the rule of Rome extends far beyond the city walls. The men respect a disciplinarian -- but they will never love him.

Bad idea; we will eventually want troops that love us, for one thing or another.

[] The Left Hand Strays: The other tribunes are, well, a disappointment. With the exception of Rufus, they are all young men who were elected on the strength of their family names over any actual skill or worthiness they might have. You take it upon yourself to whip them into shape and make them decent extensions of Sertorius' will -- and your own. You failed at this the last time you tried, but you have now had a taste of battle and leadership.

I WANT this option. There is so very, very much to do after all, and part of the problem is that we're carrying so much of the load of acting as Sertorius's staff singlehandedly, or along with no more than a couple of other individuals. If we could just stop getting the other four tribunes to stop being useless layabouts, I strongly suspect it would free up extra actions in addition to building us potential contacts or clients.

[] Portents and Signs: You contact the Camp Augur and hold a public augury. Auguries are necessary to determine the fate of any military venture, as men are often nervous marching into battle without a sign from the gods, but if the augury is unfavorable to the campaign, the morale of the legion will be lowered.

We have, like, a maximally good augury right now, I'm not sure I want to mess with it.

[] Write Home: You take the opportunity of remaining on the Italian Peninsula to write back home to your friends and allies in the city. You wrote to...
(Pick Two)
--[] Scaevola
--[] Cicero
--[] Atticus
--[] Proserpina
--[] Volero

Cicero did great things for our XP gain last time. Scaevola, who is his equal in skill and far his superior in experience, might do much the same. Proserpina would keep us informed of developments in the city, Volero of goings-on in our household (isn't he one of our servants?) Atticus is a clear option for gaining XP specifically in philosophy.

[] Study Logistics: You read books on planning and organization, hoping to gain greater mastery of logistics and large-scale planning.
[] Speak With The Architects: You speak with the legion's architects and engineers, hoping to increase your own knowledge of Engineering.

Studying logistics to keep building that up to "not actively shitty" levels would be a good goal for us to pursue consistently.

[] Brotherhood: You begin eating your meals with the men, to show them that you stand as one of them, not some aloof aristocrat.
[] Carousing: You spend some of your nights carousing and partying with the Gauls, hoping to increase their opinions of you even further.
[] Silver Tongues, Silver Words: You began to attempt to form deeper connections with the men, walking around the camp and speaking and talking to your soldiers. With enough personal charisma and skill for speech, you can begin to make yourself as loved in their hearts as Sertorius.
[] Fortune's Favor: After camp is made for the night, several of the officers, including Carcellus, gather to gamble and game. These men are all fast friends, with ties stretching back years, but if if you integrated yourself with them and got them to consider you one of them, it would go a long way towards improving your standing in the legion.

All these are good options, but since I doubt we really want to crank up our popularity to where Sertorius sees us as a rival, all these pure-social options have their faults. I'd actually take Fortune's Favor over the others, because the officers are the one group we haven't done anything out of the ordinary to befriend.

[] Bonds of Brotherhood: You spend time with Rufus, Pompolussa, Mercator, and the other friends you've made in your time in the legions, hoping to deepen the bonds further. Some of Rome's greatest political alliances were born in camps like this one.
[] Old One-Eye: You begin making an effort to bond even more with Sertorius outside of your daily talks. You have won the general's approval, but if you can win his friendship, your survival in Rome will become far, far easier.

Very appealing; in their own way both options build our contacts and connections. Old One-Eye in particular has benefits.

[] Exercise Regimen: You begin a daily exercise regimen, waking in the morning and running a circuit of the camp to begin your day.
[] Sparring: You began sparring with the men, testing your own skill with the blade against the skill of the men serving under you.

I'd like us to make some time for these at some point; building up our physicality and fighting skill would be useful. We have, as I recall, Military 14, and with just a LITTLE grinding we can boost that to Military 15, that which gave Gemino one of his dreaded +4 bonuses, and enough to make us competitive as a second-tier member of the Roman military officer corps. Sparring and exercise seem like good ways to try and enhance our overall Military score a bit, at least to me.

[] Expand Journal: You begin expanding your journal to include more than strictly military matters, such as political happenings or philosophical musings.

Quite appealing, but should be low priority.

[] Study Finance: Money. How does it work? Where does it come from? What, exactly, is it? You're not too sure on any of those counts, so you decide to sit down and try and find out when you have the time.

Quite appealing, but again, low priority.

[] Study Warfare: You study the campaigns of some of Rome's greatest generals, hoping to increase your own skill with command.

We could do a lot worse than this. @Telamon, might this improve Military? We should look into ways to do that.

Arlos · Apr 15, 2018

Telamon said:
Rufus grins. "I'm full of surprises, Atellus. I've been reading records of Sulla's campaigns against the Samnites. Gemino rose to fame back then by harassing and eluding Sulla's legions until the old bastard gave up. It's because of him Bovianum's still standing."

"Perfect."

"Perfect?" Rufus asks quizzically.

"Yes, perfect. We have a chance to do what the mighty Sulla could not. I'll have this bandit's head before summer's end, and Bovianum singing praises to Rome."

Rufus chuckles. "Right, and how in the world do you intend to do that? The city's still starving, our men will be soon, and Gemino's still at large, his belly fat with Roman food."

"Ever the optimist, aren't you?"

"Just a realist, Tribune."

"Well, Tribune...watch and learn."

So, did Rufus learn anything from what we did? I kind of hope we reminded him of this at some point

globalwarmth · Apr 15, 2018

Ridiculously Average Guy said:
We can still force it to work at max flow constantly, as if from constant rain.

At which point, lacking Roman engineers, they'll probably be forced to dam it off themselves from inside. Assuming they don't outright break it.

They might end up causing a drought themselves. Even if they don't, the excess water will probably will probably turn the base of their walls into mud (and then ice), weakening them enough for us to break/topple them in seige come spring.

ok no

max flow is max flow. these things are calculated according to the city requirements and have drainage, the walls are not an hermetically sealed tub, overflow just goes downhill and makes the surrounding terrain marshy and bad for us, the ones that have to march up to their walls.

getting so much water here would mean depriving other cities and towns, that most likely are roman or surrendered, from their water.

Arlos · Apr 15, 2018

Can't we not look for Loyal Samnites so that they can « smuggle » food inside and either have that food poisoned or have them open the gate from the inside?

Simon_Jester · Apr 15, 2018

Publicola said:
Everyone up for spending 950 of our banked XP to boost our 'Diplomacy' up to Rank 10 (Accomplished)?

Hear hear!

Redhawk said:
[] Outriders: You take the Gallic auxiliaries and begin scouring the surrounding area for rebels and rebel-allied bandits, hoping to tighten the noose and reduce the amount of food which slips through the barricades into the city by hidden means.

I'm assuming that the Outriders option will let us deal with these 200-600 rebels. If so, this option can't be ignored. These rebels couldn't do much if they attacked the army's rear but they could harass our supply lines and attack lone Roman centuries.

Be cautioned, our cavalry unit is probably only about 130 men, though we could pad that out with Roman equites in principle. We might actually have to be careful.

Undead Martyr said:
As far as the siege goes I think we should at least attempt to storm the city, and also cut the water. End the siege before winter. We should also focus on swaying our allies.

I don't know about you, but I'd rather cut the water BEFORE we storm the city, not after. Less work. Maybe we could divert the water into a cistern outside the walls, so that as soon as the enemy surrenders, we HAVE water for them?

For personal I want four things: finance, journal writing, studying logistics, and Mars. Journal writing because it's how we immortalize ourselves, Mars because we should do it while we still have the morale boost/the crit is still fresh and it gives us a long term legion tradition, finance because it's super important, and logistics for obvious reasons.

I approve of all this, but Mars-worship is a tribune option, not a personal option.

Undead Martyr said:
Also Hannibal failed to take the city.

If cutting the aqueduct were all it took then it would have fallen rather easily to him.

To be fair, even if Hannibal DID ever seriously try to take Nola, the city may be bigger and/or thirstier than it was about 120 years ago in Hannibal's day. Or in Hannibal's time, they wound up having to shove civilians out of the city to subsist on well water.

While the Romans almost certainly know how much water can be drawn from the wells in Nola, we don't (yet).

Pandemonious Ivy said:
Is the gate made of wood, steel, or what?

Gates are wood. Always wood. Steel is way too expensive for such a massive object in this era. The gates MIGHT be faced with bronze to make them harder to set on fire, and they will almost certainly be covered in wet hides or something similar for the same purpose.

Pandemonious Ivy said:
But... if it's open, then even if it's ignored by the Romans, it's a gaping weakpoint that can be used to apply pressure, even from a distance.

No reason not to stack any and all advantages.

Aqueduct damming, gate burning, and stealthy infiltrators can complement one another.

Having a main gate down means that most focus will be directed in that location. Having the aqueduct blocked off, and the people of the city knowing about it, means it's likely that attention will be focused away from it. Combine those two things with infiltrators via the aqueduct, possibly while a distracting ruckus is caused via the army in front of the gate, and you might have good odds.

Plus it's a relatively simple, 3-4 step plan. Could be worth considering, if nothing else.

To be fair, I approve of your basic idea of trying many strategems at once in hopes that the enemy will be unable to counteract them all.

Ridiculously Average Guy · Apr 15, 2018

globalwarmth said:
ok no

max flow is max flow. these things are calculated according to the city requirements and have drainage, the walls are not an hermetically sealed tub, overflow just goes downhill and makes the surrounding terrain marshy and bad for us, the ones that have to march up to their walls.

getting so much water here would mean depriving other cities and towns, that most likely are roman or surrendered, from their water.

Pity.

Well, while I'm throwing out ideas, what if we sealed their gate doors with giant mound of dirt, and just kinda...left.

I mean, they're already all in there right? If we keep them there they basically can't do anything while we focus on pacifying the rest of the region. Keep a paltry force there to maintain the dirtmound and patrol the place to make sure that they aren't building/breaking an alternate way out (at which point we have them make another mound of dirt over the new exit).

globalwarmth · Apr 15, 2018

Ridiculously Average Guy said:
Well, while I'm throwing out ideas, what if we sealed their gate doors with giant mound of dirt, and just kinda...left

Same problem as with the Mexican border wall, ladders exist.

And if we undermanned the siege they would simply get out, form ranks under cover of their own archers , and roll over our forces stationed there.

Telamon · Apr 15, 2018

Something that's been bugging me for a while now is the fact that while some of us know very much about the history and politics of ancient Rome, there are many in the quest who have only a passing familiarity with the end-days of the Republic, and even then, only the most popular parts. But the events that will shape the last century of the Roman Republic had their start many, many years ago, and the political situation of Atellus' time is influenced by things that happened decades before his birth.

As such, I've decided to begin a series of Roman Histories posts on events, people, and occasions influential to the time of the quests -- things Atellus would almost certainly know about, but the average poster might not. I'll be putting these posts up on the front page as recommended reading, as I feel they'll be quite useful to newcomers and long-time readers alike in understanding the political and social tone of the quest.

Roman Histories:
The Gracchi

One cannot truly understand the political climate of the early first century, the tensions between the populares and the optimates, or the very real consequences of those tensions, without knowing the story of the Gracchi. Their eventful lives, and eventual deaths, would leave a lasting mark on Roman history that would echo well into the time of the Caesars.

Tiberius Sempronius Gracchus (b.169 ~ 163 BC) and and Gaius Sempronus Gracchus (b.154 BC) were brothers born into a plebian branch of the gens Sempronia, an ancient and powerful noble family in Rome. Their father, Tiberius Sempronius Gracchus, was tribune of the plebs in his day, serving as the voice of the common people of Rome, and their representative on the political stage. After his death, the boys were raised by their mother Cornelia Africana, but they never forgot their father's example, and both of them would eventually follow in his footsteps as representatives of the common people of Rome.

Much has been written of Cornelia Africana, the mother of the Gracchi, and indeed, one cannot credit the Gracchi brothers for what they would achieve in the years to come without first crediting their mother. A daughter of the legendary Scipio Africanus, the man who defeated Rome's archenemy Hannibal, she came of age as one of Rome's most affluent women, but she only becomes remarkable in Roman history after the death of her husband. She famously refused a marriage offer from Ptolemy Physcon, the then-Pharaoh of Egypt, choosing not to remarry, but instead to remain a widow and raise her sons to be proper Romans in their own right. And this she most certainly did, bringing the finest tutors from across Italy and Greece to educate her sons, who took the education with aplomb.

The Gracchi excelled at everything they touched. Masterful orators from youth, they were charismatic, energetic, and well-liked among their peers. They took the sword as well as any Roman who ever lived, evidencing, in Roman eyes, their descent from the great Scipio Africanus. The brothers began their rise through the cursus honorum young -- the eldest, Tiberius, was elected to the priesthood as an augur at only sixteen years of age, and at 20, he became military tribune under Scipio Aemilianus during the Third and final Punic War. There, he won decorations for being the first man to scale the walls of Carthage, and proved himself to be a capable soldier and leader of men.

In 137, Tiberus was appointed quaestor in the Spanish province of Numantia during the Numantine War, fought to subdue the Celts in Spain. After his commanding officer dishonored himself and suffered crippling defeats at the hands of the Numantians, Tiberius leveraged his father's history in Spain, and the favorable dealings he had made with the Numantians then, into a peace treaty with the warlike Celts, saving the legions from certain destruction. While some back in Rome saw this as cowardice, Tiberius and his brother-in-law, Scipio Aemilianus, were able to convince the Senate to accept the treaty.

Tiberus built his political career off the back of these military victories, and with his renown and acumen, it is thought by many that he could have been one of Rome's youngest consuls, and had he chosen such a path, could have risen to be one of the greatest men of the late Republic.

But Tiberus had another calling. According to Plutarch, Tiberius first saw this calling when traveling to Spain, when he witnessed Roman farms absent of Roman citizens, being worked instead by slaves and barbarians from Gaul, in service to wealthy senators. Due to the way Roman warfare worked, soldiers could be on service for as long as a war lasted, meaning that their farms back home could and would go under, at which point they were snapped up by wealthy landowners. To avoid the circumscriptions against owning too much of the public land, these landowners would operate through proxies, farming the land with slaves brought from elsewhere. As a result, soldiers would return home from war to find that their homes, which they had fought for so long, were gone, and that they were effectively homeless -- a fact which ironically meant they could no longer join the military.

Tiberius rightly saw this as an injustice which was destroying the Republic's military and economic power in the name of greed. In 133 BC, he campaigned for and won the position of Tribune of the plebs, the position his father had once held, championing the cause of the homeless soldiers who had given flesh and blood for Rome and now had not even a roof to cover their heads in winter.

Once elected, he worked with the then-consul Publius Mucius Scaevola (father of the later Scaevola Pontifex) to design an agrarian law reform called the Lex Sempronia Agraria. It would enforce the standing circumscriptions on the amount of public land which could be held by a single man, fining those landowners who held more than the limit and forcing them to relinquish their extra holdings to the people. The confiscated land would then be re-distributed to the homeless and poor, dealing with the growing problem of Rome's homeless.

Knowing the patrician Senate would never accept a bill which so attacked their coffers, Tiberius skipped submitting the bill to the Senate, and instead took it directly to the Public Assembly, filled with plebs who were in overwhelming favor of the Gracchan reforms. While this was technically legal, it cut out the Senate entirely, offending many senators, even those who supported such reforms. The incensed Senators connived another way of influencing the bill, and either bribed or persuaded Tiberius' co-tribune, Octavius, to use his tribunal veto to stop the bill from passing. In response, Gracchus tried to have Octavius deposed, but Octavius simply vetoed any bill to depose him, and any other movement which Tiberus tried to make.

In opposition to the Senate and their cronies, Tiberus began to use his tribunal veto as a club, stopping the temples, markets, and public places from opening and functioning. In this way, he brought the entire city to a standstill until his laws were passed, holding Rome herself a hostage for her own good. The people overwhelmingly supported him, and an armed guard followed him day and night to protect him from the Senate's thugs. Finally, he had Octavius forcibly removed from the Senate chambers despite his supposed sacrosanctity as a Tribune of the people, and had his laws passed with majority support of the people. In addition, he deposed Octavius, stating that no man who would so adamantly stand in the way of the public good could ever truly represent the people.

This was the beginning of the end for Tiberius. He became a popular hero, revered across Rome and Italy as the voice of the people and the champion of the Republic, the vanguard of democracy and a Roman above all others. People began calling for him to be crowned as king, and though he adamantly refused, this terrified the Senate. When he seized public funds in order to secure money for his reforms -- money which had been denied him by the Senate -- his fate was sealed. His enemies used his forceful deposition of Tiberius and disregard for the Senate as a club against him, claiming he meant to be King in Rome. Once his tribunate was over, he would almost certainly be killed.

In order to avoid this, Tiberus won re-election, promising even more liberal reforms, such as the admission of all Italians to Roman citizenship. This won him yet more support, and the Public Assembly sent plebian guards to watch his door day and night to protect him from assassination. The Senate began to lobby the consuls to deal with Tiberus and declare him an enemy of the state, yet they refused again and again. Finally, led by Publius Nasica, Tiberus' own cousin, the Senate and their slaves attacked Tiberus one morning as he entered the Senate Chambers, beating him and many of his followers to death with clubs, sticks, and stones. Their corpses were unceremoniously dumped in the Tiber, his remaining supporters exiled without trial, and his reforms rolled back.

But this was not the end for the Gracchi. Gaius, Tiberus' younger brother and one of Rome's most skilled orators, immediately set out to avenge his brother's death. He openly mourned his brother in the Senate, using Tiberus' murder as a club to attack his opponents and political enemies, and had Publius Nasica exiled for the murder of Roman citizens without due cause. Ten years after Tiberius' death, he had won enough support in the public eye to campaign for the same office as his brother and father before him, winning election to the Tribunate in 122 BC. His first actions were widespread judiciary reforms that sought to place more power in the hands of the people, and enabled the prosecution of those who had exiled Romans without trial -- a clear blow against those who had murdered his brother. He also forbade courts run solely by patricians, ensuring that the people would have a say in their own justice.

He continued Tiberius' land reforms, expanding them and rolling out even more liberal additions, forcing the Senate to buy cheap grain and distribute it to the people. He shortened the terms military service, ensured soldiers were provided with armor and weapons instead of having to purchase them, and rolled out a series of protections for citizens enrolled in the military. Perhaps the pettiest of Gaius' bills was the change to public speaking. Before, when Romans spoke in the Forum, they would speak facing the Senate chambers. Gaius introduced a bill stipulating that speakers were now to face the other way, literally turning their back on the Senate to speak to the people.

As one of the greatest administrators in Roman history, Gaius was beloved by the people, and his reforms were met with widespread public support. He famously moved his family from the Palatine hill, where Rome's wealthiest lived, to the slums near the Forum. The message was clear to the people and the Senate alike: the Gracchi, all of them, spoke for the common man. His own fame and reputation quickly matched that of his dead brother, and the Senate soon came to fear him just as much -- perhaps even moreso -- than they had feared Tiberius. The oligarchy and higher classes of Rome began to rally against him, supporting Tribunes who opposed Gaius' legislations and vetoed his bills.

After Gaius famously had the senatorial seats in the arena removed so that the poorest of Romans could watch that day's gladiatorial games, the Senate turned almost entirely against him. They convinced a tribune, Opimus, to repeal the laws of the Gracchi. On the day Opimus was meant to repeal the laws, supporters of Gaius' killed one of Opimus' servants in the Forum. It is unknown whether or not Gaius Gracchus ordered it, but Opimus and his allies seized on this as pretext, declaring Gaius Gracchus a tyrant and an enemy of the state and raising a mob to forcibly depose him. In response, Gaius' most prominent friend and supporter, the Senator and consul Fulvius Flaccus, armed himself and his supporters and took to the streets. After tense negotiations which eventually broke down, the two factions erupted into bloodshed in the streets. When the Senate offered amnesty to the Gracchan supporters, many of the surviving mob came over en masse. Afterwards, Opimus ordered his hired mercenaries to attack the remaining crowd, dispersing the mob and killing Flaccus and his sons. The cause was dead.

Gaius, meanwhile, had fled, initially taking refuge in the Temple of Diana, and then finally fleeing across the Tiber while his closest friends stayed behind and gave their lives that he might escape. Together with his most loyal slave, he committed suicide in a holy grove on the outskirts of Rome. According to tradition, he damned the Roman people with his final breath, sending a prayer to the gods that Romans might forever be slaves, as they seemed to so desire.

Gracchus' head was cut off and returned to Rome as a trophy, and his remaining supporters exiled or dispersed. The laws of the Gracchi were reversed and repealed, and then some -- within a decade, the people suffered even more than they had before the Gracchian reforms. In death, Tiberius and Gaius Gracchus become demigods, heroes of the city and the people, worshiped on street corners and in temples as champions of the Republic and idols of the common man. The spots where they died became holy ground, and shrines to them popped up across Rome and Italy. They were prayed to by the poor and the weak and the homeless, who begged them for succor, for liberty, for the freedom they had so briefly tasted. But it was too late. The final, staunchest defenders of Roman democracy were dead, and the ideal would never rise again.

The Gracchi went down in history as the last true democrats of Rome, the greatest of the populares, and the last Romans to truly champion the cause of the people. Those demagogues and firebrands who would follow after, like Catiline, Caesar, Marius, and their ilk, were interested in the cause of the people only so far as the cause of the people aligned with and supported the cause of Catiline, Caesar, and Marius. Public freedoms became a joke, and the rights of the plebs an even bitterer one. Power and authority in Rome became firmly centralized upon the Senate, with the tribunate declining first into irrelevancy and then into nonexistence under Sulla and his followers in the next century.

But in Atellus' time, the long shadow of the Gracchi still hangs over Rome. In the minds of the people, they are an ideal to strive towards, a dream, a hope now long lost, of equality in the city of Romulus. To the Senate and the patricians, they are a haunting specter, a chilling warning, of knives in the dark and mobs in the streets, of how one man with a silver tongue can incite the rabble to murder and treachery. And to all, they are a fading memory of the oldest and most downtrodden ideals of the Roman Republic -- that all Romans, no matter class or status, might stand equal as brothers.

Simon_Jester · Apr 15, 2018

Ridiculously Average Guy said:
Pity.

Well, while I'm throwing out ideas, what if we sealed their gate doors with giant mound of dirt, and just kinda...left.

I mean, they're already all in there right? If we keep them there they basically can't do anything while we focus on pacifying the rest of the region. Keep a paltry force there to maintain the dirtmound and patrol the place to make sure that they aren't building/breaking an alternate way out (at which point we have them make another mound of dirt over the new exit).

Wait. If we could just pile up all that dirt in front of the gates, why not just walk up the pile of dirt and stab them all to death?

[No seriously, this was one of the favored Roman siege tactics, explained in words of one syllable. Build a ramp up the walls, under cover of mobile shields and the like, then take the walls in that way]

JamesShazbond · Apr 15, 2018

Telamon said:
Something that's been bugging me for a while now is the fact that while some of us know very much about the history and politics of ancient Rome, there are many in the quest who have only a passing familiarity with the end-days of the Republic, and even then, only the most popular parts. But the events that will shape the last century of the Roman Republic had their start many, many years ago, and the political situation of Atellus' time is influenced by things that happened decades before his birth.

As such, I've decided to begin a series of Roman Histories posts on events, people, and occasions influential to the time of the quests -- things Atellus would almost certainly know about, but the average poster might not. I'll be putting these posts up on the front page as recommended reading, as I feel they'll be quite useful to newcomers and long-time readers alike in understanding the political and social tone of the quest.

Roman Histories:
The Gracchi

One cannot truly understand the political climate of the early first century, the tensions between the populares and the optimates, or the very real consequences of those tensions, without knowing the story of the Gracchi. Their eventful lives, and eventual deaths, would leave a lasting mark on Roman history that would echo well into the time of the Caesars.

Tiberius Sempronius Gracchus (b.169 ~ 163 BC) and and Gaius Sempronus Gracchus (b.154 BC) were brothers born into a plebian branch of the gens Sempronia, an ancient and powerful noble family in Rome. Their father, Tiberius Sempronius Gracchus, was tribune of the plebs in his day, serving as the voice of the common people of Rome, and their representative on the political stage. After his death, the boys were raised by their mother Cornelia Africana, but they never forgot their father's example, and both of them would eventually follow in his footsteps as representatives of the common people of Rome.

Much has been written of Cornelia Africana, the mother of the Gracchi, and indeed, one cannot credit the Gracchi brothers for what they would achieve in the years to come without first crediting their mother. A daughter of the legendary Scipio Africanus, the man who defeated Rome's archenemy Hannibal, she came of age as one of Rome's most affluent women, but she only becomes remarkable in Roman history after the death of her husband. She famously refused a marriage offer from Ptolemy Physcon, the then-Pharaoh of Egypt, choosing not to remarry, but instead to remain a widow and raise her sons to be proper Romans in their own right. And this she most certainly did, bringing the finest tutors from across Italy and Greece to educate her sons, who took the education with aplomb.

The Gracchi excelled at everything they touched. Masterful orators from youth, they were charismatic, energetic, and well-liked among their peers. They took the sword as well as any Roman who ever lived, evidencing, in Roman eyes, their descent from the great Scipio Africanus. The brothers began their rise through the cursus honorum young -- the eldest, Tiberius, was elected to the priesthood as an augur at only sixteen years of age, and at 20, he became military tribune under Scipio Aemilianus during the Third and final Punic War. There, he won decorations for being the first man to scale the walls of Carthage, and proved himself to be a capable soldier and leader of men.

In 137, Tiberus was appointed quaestor in the Spanish province of Numantia during the Numantine War, fought to subdue the Celts in Spain. After his commanding officer dishonored himself and suffered crippling defeats at the hands of the Numantians, Tiberius leveraged his father's history in Spain, and the favorable dealings he had made with the Numantians then, into a peace treaty with the warlike Celts, saving the legions from certain destruction. While some back in Rome saw this as cowardice, Tiberius and his brother-in-law, Scipio Aemilianus, were able to convince the Senate to accept the treaty.

Tiberus built his political career off the back of these military victories, and with his renown and acumen, it is thought by many that he could have been one of Rome's youngest consuls, and had he chosen such a path, could have risen to be one of the greatest men of the late Republic.

But Tiberus had another calling. According to Plutarch, Tiberius first saw this calling when traveling to Spain, when he witnessed Roman farms absent of Roman citizens, being worked instead by slaves and barbarians from Gaul, in service to wealthy senators. Due to the way Roman warfare worked, soldiers could be on service for as long as a war lasted, meaning that their farms back home could and would go under, at which point they were snapped up by wealthy landowners. To avoid the circumscriptions against owning too much of the public land, these landowners would operate through proxies, farming the land with slaves brought from elsewhere. As a result, soldiers would return home from war to find that their homes, which they had fought for so long, were gone, and that they were effectively homeless -- a fact which ironically meant they could no longer join the military.

Tiberius rightly saw this as an injustice which was destroying the Republic's military and economic power in the name of greed. In 133 BC, he campaigned for and won the position of Tribune of the plebs, the position his father had once held, championing the cause of the homeless soldiers who had given flesh and blood for Rome and now had not even a roof to cover their heads in winter.

Once elected, he worked with the then-consul Publius Mucius Scaevola (father of the later Scaevola Pontifex) to design an agrarian law reform called the Lex Sempronia Agraria. It would enforce the standing circumscriptions on the amount of public land which could be held by a single man, fining those landowners who held more than the limit and forcing them to relinquish their extra holdings to the people. The confiscated land would then be re-distributed to the homeless and poor, dealing with the growing problem of Rome's homeless.

Knowing the patrician Senate would never accept a bill which so attacked their coffers, Tiberius skipped submitting the bill to the Senate, and instead took it directly to the Public Assembly, filled with plebs who were in overwhelming favor of the Gracchan reforms. While this was technically legal, it cut out the Senate entirely, offending many senators, even those who supported such reforms. The incensed Senators connived another way of influencing the bill, and either bribed or persuaded Tiberius' co-tribune, Octavius, to use his tribunal veto to stop the bill from passing. In response, Gracchus tried to have Octavius deposed, but Octavius simply vetoed any bill to depose him, and any other movement which Tiberus tried to make.

In opposition to the Senate and their cronies, Tiberus began to use his tribunal veto as a club, stopping the temples, markets, and public places from opening and functioning. In this way, he brought the entire city to a standstill until his laws were passed, holding Rome herself a hostage for her own good. The people overwhelmingly supported him, and an armed guard followed him day and night to protect him from the Senate's thugs. Finally, he had Octavius forcibly removed from the Senate chambers despite his supposed sacrosanctity as a Tribune of the people, and had his laws passed with majority support of the people. In addition, he deposed Octavius, stating that no man who would so adamantly stand in the way of the public good could ever truly represent the people.

This was the beginning of the end for Tiberius. He became a popular hero, revered across Rome and Italy as the voice of the people and the champion of the Republic, the vanguard of democracy and a Roman above all others. People began calling for him to be crowned as king, and though he adamantly refused, this terrified the Senate. When he seized public funds in order to secure money for his reforms -- money which had been denied him by the Senate -- his fate was sealed. His enemies used his forceful deposition of Tiberius and disregard for the Senate as a club against him, claiming he meant to be King in Rome. Once his tribunate was over, he would almost certainly be killed.

In order to avoid this, Tiberus won re-election, promising even more liberal reforms, such as the admission of all Italians to Roman citizenship. This won him yet more support, and the Public Assembly sent plebian guards to watch his door day and night to protect him from assassination. The Senate began to lobby the consuls to deal with Tiberus and declare him an enemy of the state, yet they refused again and again. Finally, led by Publius Nasica, Tiberus' own cousin, the Senate and their slaves attacked Tiberus one morning as he entered the Senate Chambers, beating him and many of his followers to death with clubs, sticks, and stones. Their corpses were unceremoniously dumped in the Tiber, his remaining supporters exiled without trial, and his reforms rolled back.

But this was not the end for the Gracchi. Gaius, Tiberus' younger brother and one of Rome's most skilled orators, immediately set out to avenge his brother's death. He openly mourned his brother in the Senate, using Tiberus' murder as a club to attack his opponents and political enemies, and had Publius Nasica exiled for the murder of Roman citizens without due cause. Ten years after Tiberius' death, he had won enough support in the public eye to campaign for the same office as his brother and father before him, winning election to the Tribunate in 122 BC. His first actions were widespread judiciary reforms that sought to place more power in the hands of the people, and enabled the prosecution of those who had exiled Romans without trial -- a clear blow against those who had murdered his brother. He also forbade courts run solely by patricians, ensuring that the people would have a say in their own justice.

He continued Tiberius' land reforms, expanding them and rolling out even more liberal additions, forcing the Senate to buy cheap grain and distribute it to the people. He shortened the terms military service, ensured soldiers were provided with armor and weapons instead of having to purchase them, and rolled out a series of protections for citizens enrolled in the military. Perhaps the pettiest of Gaius' bills was the change to public speaking. Before, when Romans spoke in the Forum, they would speak facing the Senate chambers. Gaius introduced a bill stipulating that speakers were now to face the other way, literally turning their back on the Senate to speak to the people.

As one of the greatest administrators in Roman history, Gaius was beloved by the people, and his reforms were met with widespread public support. He famously moved his family from the Palatine hill, where Rome's wealthiest lived, to the slums near the Forum. The message was clear to the people and the Senate alike: the Gracchi, all of them, spoke for the common man. His own fame and reputation quickly matched that of his dead brother, and the Senate soon came to fear him just as much -- perhaps even moreso -- than they had feared Tiberius. The oligarchy and higher classes of Rome began to rally against him, supporting Tribunes who opposed Gaius' legislations and vetoed his bills.

After Gaius famously had the senatorial seats in the arena removed so that the poorest of Romans could watch that day's gladiatorial games, the Senate turned almost entirely against him. They convinced a tribune, Opimus, to repeal the laws of the Gracchi. On the day Opimus was meant to repeal the laws, supporters of Gaius' killed one of Opimus' servants in the Forum. It is unknown whether or not Gaius Gracchus ordered it, but Opimus and his allies seized on this as pretext, declaring Gaius Gracchus a tyrant and an enemy of the state and raising a mob to forcibly depose him. In response, Gaius' most prominent friend and supporter, the Senator and consul Fulvius Flaccus, armed himself and his supporters and took to the streets. After tense negotiations which eventually broke down, the two factions erupted into bloodshed in the streets. When the Senate offered amnesty to the Gracchan supporters, many of the surviving mob came over en masse. Afterwards, Opimus ordered his hired mercenaries to attack the remaining crowd, dispersing the mob and killing Flaccus and his sons. The cause was dead.

Gaius, meanwhile, had fled, initially taking refuge in the Temple of Diana, and then finally fleeing across the Tiber while his closest friends stayed behind and gave their lives that he might escape. Together with his most loyal slave, he committed suicide in a holy grove on the outskirts of Rome. According to tradition, he damned the Roman people with his final breath, sending a prayer to the gods that Romans might forever be slaves, as they seemed to so desire.

Gracchus' head was cut off and returned to Rome as a trophy, and his remaining supporters exiled or dispersed. The laws of the Gracchi were reversed and repealed, and then some -- within a decade, the people suffered even more than they had before the Gracchian reforms. In death, Tiberius and Gaius Gracchus become demigods, heroes of the city and the people, worshiped on street corners and in temples as champions of the Republic and idols of the common man. The spots where they died became holy ground, and shrines to them popped up across Rome and Italy. They were prayed to by the poor and the weak and the homeless, who begged them for succor, for liberty, for the freedom they had so briefly tasted. But it was too late. The final, staunchest defenders of Roman democracy were dead, and the ideal would never rise again.

The Gracchi went down in history as the last true democrats of Rome, the greatest of the populares, and the last Romans to truly champion the cause of the people. Those demagogues and firebrands who would follow after, like Catiline, Caesar, Marius, and their ilk, were interested in the cause of the people only so far as the cause of the people aligned with and supported the cause of Catiline, Caesar, and Marius. Public freedoms became a joke, and the rights of the plebs an even bitterer one. Power and authority in Rome became firmly centralized upon the Senate, with the tribunate declining first into irrelevancy and then into nonexistence under Sulla and his followers in the next century.

But in Atellus' time, the long shadow of the Gracchi still hangs over Rome. In the minds of the people, they are an ideal to strive towards, a dream, a hope now long lost, of equality in the city of Romulus. To the Senate and the patricians, they are a haunting specter, a chilling warning, of knives in the dark and mobs in the streets, of how one man with a silver tongue can incite the rabble to murder and treachery. And to all, they are a fading memory of the oldest and most downtrodden ideals of the Roman Republic -- that all Romans, no matter class or status, might stand equal as brothers.

So how much xp is this omake worth?

Teen Spirit · Apr 15, 2018

Admittedly this covers pretty much what's already been said but Extra History has a good series on the Brothers Gracchi.

Deadly Snark · Apr 15, 2018

I am not sure that you can necessarily call the Gracchi the last defenders of Roman Democracy. Because while their cause was just and they did want to help the people, many of their actions directly caused a lot of damage to the Institutions of Rome Traditions.

Nurgle · Apr 15, 2018

Well someone posted the extra history podcast before me

Always Late · Apr 15, 2018

Telamon said:
As such, I've decided to begin a series of Roman Histories posts on events, people, and occasions influential to the time of the quests

And you start with the topic Extra History already covered.

Telamon said:
the eldest, Tiberius, was elected to the priesthood as an augur at only sixteen years of age, and at 20, he became military tribune under Scipio Aemilianus during the Third and final Punic War. There, he won decorations for being the first man to scale the walls of Carthage, and proved himself to be a capable soldier and leader of men.

Wow. that's pretty damn impressive. Didn't know that.

Telamon said:
To avoid the circumscriptions against owning too much of the public land, these landowners would operate through proxies, farming the land with slaves brought from elsewhere. As a result, soldiers would return home from war to find that their homes, which they had fought for so long, were gone, and that they were effectively homeless -- a fact which ironically meant they could no longer join the military.

yeah, it's a massive fucking loophole when the soldiers, the profession Rome supposedly prizes above all others, thousands of miles away are supposed to maintain their farms.

Telamon said:
Knowing the patrician Senate would never accept a bill which so attacked their coffers, Tiberius skipped submitting the bill to the Senate, and instead took it directly to the Public Assembly, filled with plebs who were in overwhelming favor of the Gracchan reforms. While this was technically legal, it cut out the Senate entirely, offending many senators, even those who supported such reforms.

This is a key element in politics that is universal, and often overlooked: Human beings are creatures of emotion as much as they are ones of logic, and correspondingly personalities, especially major charismatic ones, are a factor in political life. Being rude is a fast way to get enemies.

Telamon said:
In response, Gracchus tried to have Octavius deposed, but Octavius simply vetoed any bill to depose him, and any other movement which Tiberus tried to make.

Which is why every subsequent attempt at a Republic tried to rein in the ability of a select few to ground the state to a halt for their own methods.
But then folks realized that even the gov't needs to pay its bills.

Telamon said:
In opposition to the Senate and their cronies, Tiberus began to use his tribunal veto as a club, stopping the temples, markets, and public places from opening and functioning. In this way, he brought the entire city to a standstill until his laws were passed, holding Rome herself a hostage for her own good.

And because of that previous reputation, he was made a hero for such destructive behavior.

Telamon said:
The people overwhelmingly supported him, and an armed guard followed him day and night to protect him from the Senate's thugs.

You should cover that in the future: How the Roman Senate used criminal gangs and proxies and enforcers.

Telamon said:
Finally, he had Octavius forcibly removed from the Senate chambers despite his supposed sacrosanctity as a Tribune of the people

And here is the thing that will haunt Tiberius and the Republic for the rest of its existence: The destruction of tradition.

Roman laws are, as we're discussed, rather arbitrary. It's up to individual honor to keep the system going. And this act, while making sense logically as a threat to the wellbeing of the state and its people, opened Tiberius to return acts.

Telamon said:
In addition, he deposed Octavius, stating that no man who would so adamantly stand in the way of the public good could ever truly represent the people.

Pot, meet Kettle.

Telamon said:
Finally, led by Publius Nasica, Tiberus' own cousin, the Senate and their slaves attacked Tiberus one morning as he entered the Senate Chambers, beating him and many of his followers to death with clubs, sticks, and stones. Their corpses were unceremoniously dumped in the Tiber, his remaining supporters exiled without trial, and his reforms rolled back.

Given you really go into phrophesies, I wonder if there was ever something for Tiberius getting removed akin to Octavius. But more dead-y.

Telamon said:
Perhaps the pettiest of Gaius' bills was the change to public speaking. Before, when Romans spoke in the Forum, they would speak facing the Senate chambers. Gaius introduced a bill stipulating that speakers were now to face the other way, literally turning their back on the Senate to speak to the people.

Dick.

Telamon said:
After Gaius famously had the senatorial seats in the arena removed so that the poorest of Romans could watch that day's gladiatorial games, the Senate turned almost entirely against him.

This is the reason why populism alone can't carry a nation. Both the elites and the common man must be represented, lest one side take action.

Telamon said:
According to tradition, he damned the Roman people with his final breath, sending a prayer to the gods that Romans might forever be slaves, as they seemed to so desire.

... well, Rome's fucked. If he prayed for the Republic's fall, then our best bet is to try and wrestle our way to the Emperor's throne.

Telamon said:
But in Atellus' time, the long shadow of the Gracchi still hangs over Rome. In the minds of the people, they are an ideal to strive towards, a dream, a hope now long lost, of equality in the city of Romulus. To the Senate and the patricians, they are a haunting specter, a chilling warning, of knives in the dark and mobs in the streets, of how one man with a silver tongue can incite the rabble to murder and treachery. And to all, they are a fading memory of the oldest and most downtrodden ideals of the Roman Republic -- that all Romans, no matter class or status, might stand equal as brothers.

Hmm...

Telamon said:
The Gracchi went down in history as the last true democrats of Rome, the greatest of the populares, and the last Romans to truly champion the cause of the people.

OK, that clinches it. Fate Omake's getting some edits.

Res Publica: A Quest of Ancient Rome

Panties, Revolution. Big Drawers. Parachute.

ruining the weather.

A corvid.

Lacking in coffee, sleep, and brains

I'm you, but stronger

ruining the weather.

I'm you, but stronger

ruining the weather.

I'm you, but stronger

ruining the weather.

A corvid.

Lost in Ever After

Tryhard As Fuck

Lacking in coffee, sleep, and brains