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Puella Magi - Memento Mori (PMMM quest)

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Naron said:
Yes, time to go. Again, my respect on how well you managed to convey this feeling of having to tiptoe with every decision here; reading these updates felt as oppressive as I assume the atmosphere was for Tamiko.
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Sometimes, you gotta drag someone to needed help kicking and screaming. It ain't fun, it makes you feel terrible, but between that and watching someone you care about spiral into The End... you just do what you can to make it work.

[X] Hug her?
[X] Take one last look around, just in case to see if there's something Mariko may have missed.
 
Just leave. We already asked Mariko if she was sure she had everything. We can always come back later if she really did forget something. We're done here.
 
Always Late said:
Sometimes, you gotta drag someone to needed help kicking and screaming. It ain't fun, it makes you feel terrible, but between that and watching someone you care about spiral into The End... you just do what you can to make it work.

[] Hug her?
[] Take one last look around, just in case to see if there's something Mariko may have missed.
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The problem I have with that (besides the hugs; now is not the time) is that Mariko already said she has everything. We are still not in the clear and pushed her far enough already, is what I believe.
Additionally, I am really not happy with those votes consisting of only one or two lines.

So I will just do this

[X] Leave
-[X] Talk with Mariko on the way back.
--[X] "I guess there goes the day..."
---[X] Considering you still have homework and some other things to do, there is little time left for much else
---[X] Any particular ideas what to use the rest for?
--[X] You want to tell the others that Mariko is staying with you to avoid misunderstandings... what should you tell them if they ask for reasons?

[X] Telepathy Kishi and Ariane, apologise for not having any time today
-[X] Additionally, Mariko is staying with us for the time being
--[X] If asked for details, only respond with what Mariko gave you a clear for
-[X] What have they been up to while we were busy?

and hope it makes people start to talk. That is the same as my previous draft, with an additional line at the end.
Thoughts?
 
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I don't think being so pushy is a good idea right now, Weiss.

[x] Naron
 
Naron said:
The problem I have with that (besides the hugs; now is not the time) is that Mariko already said she has everything. We are still not in the clear and pushed her far enough already, is what I believe.
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*sigh* You're still taking a habitual denier of her problems at face value.
You can't make a Shinji Ikari mentally healthy by letting him run away from his problems.
UbeOne said:
I don't think being so pushy is a good idea right now, Weiss.
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I've heard that quite alot these past few updates, and there's still a disturbing shortfall of actual evidence backing it up.
 
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Always Late said:
*sigh* You're still taking a habitual denier of her problems at face value.
You can't make a Shinji Ikari mentally healthy by letting him run away from his problems.

I've heard that quite alot these past few updates, and there's still a disturbing shortfall of actual evidence backing it up.
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I simply believe that every human being has a line which is not to be crossed. We pushed through almost all of Mariko's shells and brought all these ugly problems into the open; no matter how we tried to mitigate this afterwards, I still believe we are close to this line with her; no one likes another being too nosy.

To remain with your analogy, telling the Shinji to "get into the f***ing robot" will not help treating his mental problems, either.

There is such a thing as "too much too fast"; I believe we are getting into that territory... though this might only be my opinion because I am still reading PMAS at the moment.
If you believe we still have some leeway, very well. I just have a different opinion on this.
 
Naron said:
I simply believe that every human being has a line which is not to be crossed. We pushed through almost all of Mariko's shells and brought all these ugly problems into the open; no matter how we tried to mitigate this afterwards, I still believe we are close to this line with her; no one likes another being too nosy.

To remain with your analogy, telling the Shinji to "get into the f***ing robot" will not help treating his mental problems, either.

There is such a thing as "too much too fast"; I believe we are getting into that territory... though this might only be my opinion because I am still reading PMAS at the moment.
If you believe we still have some leeway, very well. I just have a different opinion on this.
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I'd be alot more amenable about this if you had anything actually rooted in the story to inform that opinion. Maybe you're not that far into Sabrina's story, but her quest should be more than enough evidence that letting personal opinion and interpretation get ahead of in-story facts leads to avoidable disaster.
 
Always Late said:
I'd be alot more amenable about this if you had anything actually rooted in the story to inform that opinion. Maybe you're not that far into Sabrina's story, but her quest should be more than enough evidence that letting personal opinion and interpretation get ahead of in-story facts leads to avoidable disaster.
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Mhm... I am at page 379 at the moment; and I very well saw how much of a trainwreck some situations became.
However, we were given that Mariko is rather delicate among that hard shell she keeps up; which we broke.

So far, we:
-forced one of the most traumatic experiences in her life into the open, which is connected to her other traumatic experiences
-invaded her personal space without permission, which is not a smart thing to do to an abuse-victim (this one is negligible because of TamiHugs, but still)
-walked all over any and all attempts to pull the truth out of her (even if we were nice about it... at times)

I base my thoughts on the fact that Mariko is not written like a particularly steadfast character. Every bit of her characterisation tells me to be careful when dealing with her and I do not want to risk pushing too far.


As a compromise, I would not mind asking Mariko if she has everything; looking by ourselves is something I can not get behind.
 
Naron said:
So far, we:
-forced one of the most traumatic experiences in her life into the open, which is connected to her other traumatic experiences
-invaded her personal space without permission, which is not a smart thing to do to an abuse-victim (this one is negligible because of TamiHugs, but still)
-walked all over any and all attempts to pull the truth out of her (even if we were nice about it... at times)

I base my thoughts on the fact that Mariko is not written like a particularly steadfast character. Every bit of her characterisation tells me to be careful when dealing with her and I do not want to risk pushing too far.
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Thank you very much, this is something that can actually be worked with. Now then.
1. This is accurate, we did bore through the web of trauma to the first thread that everything else spun from.

2. Invaded her personal space happened, IIRC, all of once during all this, the Tamihug that annoyed Mariko. Additionally, there have been plenty of previous hugs and other physical contact in the past that Mariko has not been extremely put out over. Frankly, the reaction is more along a basis of Tamiko making unintentional innuendos than actual discomfort. As usual per people bringing in their own opinions, I respect it and know you wouldn't believe it to be true without past experience, but it is not accurate in this situation. Mariko's personal space issues were far more tied up in her power than in her being beaten.

3. This one I am not sure if you mangled the phrasing, or if it means the thing I'm thinking of and it's just a different way of saying it. I think what you're getting at here is the other side of the key at the heart of all this, the other side of point one: That we've let Mariko volunteer none of this. And my answer to that is, unfortunately, the same it has been since Intervention one and two, that it was never in Mariko's character to volunteer any of her problems on her own. All of Social Science is one massive testament, a somewhat large microcosm, to that central character trait of Mariko.

To do anything to help her or get any helpful information out of her, we must use love and acceptance coupled with insistence and firmness. Until Mariko learns that she can rely on Tamiko to hear her problems and solve them, something she currently believes nobody can do, experience has shown this formula is mandatory.
 
Always Late said:
To do anything to help her or get any helpful information out of her, we must use love and acceptance coupled with insistence and firmness. Until Mariko learns that she can rely on Tamiko to hear her problems and solve them, something she currently believes nobody can do, experience has shown this formula is mandatory.
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Those are all fair points. I am not even disagreeing here; all I say is that we are doing this too fast.
These things need time, which we are not giving them. We try to solve everything as fast as possible instead of letting the whole matter rest for at least a few hours. This is the only problem I have with the "looking around"-vote, which is a blatant shiny meant to make us take a closer look at the place; we will probably get to see Mariko's home again at some point anyway.

I want to give the girl some time to get her thoughts back in order.
 
Patience is a virtue. Delicacy and sensitivity are a thing. Not all situations are nails to be hammered.
 
And I just realised that we are arguing the complex psychological treatment of a somewhat traumatised teenager with magical powers because we can not agree whether we should leave now or look around once more.

There is probably not even anything to be found... and now I finally remember why I wanted to leave now: I just figured it would be rude to take the other option.
 
Naron said:
And I just realised that we are arguing the complex psychological treatment of a somewhat traumatised teenager with magical powers because we can not agree whether we should leave now or look around once more.
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Well, yes, but it's actually bigger.
See, this actually isn't about whether not we take one last look. If Social Science is Mariko's central character moment, Intervention so far has been @DrZiztah asking us again and again what we do with that information, whether or not we press while the iron is hot, or if-
UbeOne said:
Patience is a virtue. Delicacy and sensitivity are a thing. Not all situations are nails to be hammered.
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we feel that way.
A more-or-less paragon-renegade binary choice, very Bioware.

So if this is meant to be Tamiko pulling off the intervention, then this time to start getting shit done. Done tactfully, but done now.
 
Naron said:
The problem I have with that (besides the hugs; now is not the time) is that Mariko already said she has everything. We are still not in the clear and pushed her far enough already, is what I believe.
Additionally, I am really not happy with those votes consisting of only one or two lines.

So I will just do this

[X] Leave
-[X] Talk with Mariko on the way back.
--[X] "I guess there goes the day..."
---[X] Considering you still have homework and some other things to do, there is little time left for much else
---[X] Any particular ideas what to use the rest for?

[X] Telepathy Kishi and Ariane, apologise for not having any time today
-[X] Additionally, Mariko is staying with us for the time being
--[X] If asked for details, check with Mariko how much you are allowed to tell them (default: her mother is in the hospital and she has little money to sustain herself)
-[X] What have they been up to while we were busy?

and hope it makes people start to talk. That is the same as my previous draft, with an additional line at the end.
Thoughts?
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Actually I'd rather if you talk to Mariko first and work out a story before going straight to telepathy with our friends.
 
Muramasa said:
Actually I'd rather if you talk to Mariko first and work out a story before going straight to telepathy with our friends.
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Fair enough, I will change that around.

Is this better?

[] Leave
-[] Talk with Mariko on the way back.
--[] "I guess there goes the day..."
---[] Considering you still have homework and some other things to do, there is little time left for much else
---[] Any particular ideas what to use the rest for?
--[] You want to tell the others that Mariko is staying with you... is it okay to mention her financial situation if they ask for reasons?

[] Telepathy Kishi and Ariane, apologise for not having any time today
-[] Additionally, Mariko is staying with us for the time being
--[] If asked for details, only respond with what Mariko gave you a clear for; in case this is not enough for the others, ask them to talk about this with Mariko in person instead
-[] What have they been up to while we were busy?
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Naron said:
Fair enough, I will change that around.

Is this better?
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I'd rather you word it in a way that asks Mariko what Tamiko should tell her friends about this arrangement. We don't really want to lie to our friends but that doesn't mean they absolutely need to know everything. Actually I'm not so sure we should be having this conversation yet tbh.
 
Muramasa said:
I'd rather you word it in a way that asks Mariko what Tamiko should tell her friends about this arrangement. We don't really want to lie to our friends but that doesn't mean they absolutely need to know everything. Actually I'm not so sure we should be having this conversation yet tbh.
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Hm... I agree that the conversation about everything should not be anytime soon; not mentioning Mariko's new living arrangements might lead to... misunderstandings. Considering how often attempts at shenanigans fell flat before or led to even more embarassment for Tami, I would rather not have that.

Next draft:
[] Leave
-[] Talk with Mariko on the way back.
--[] "I guess there goes the day..."
---[] Considering you still have homework and some other things to do, there is little time left for much else
---[] Any particular ideas what to use the rest for?
--[] You want to tell the others that Mariko is staying with you to avoid misunderstandings... what should you tell them if they ask for reasons?

[] Telepathy Kishi and Ariane, apologise for not having any time today
-[] Additionally, Mariko is staying with us for the time being
--[] If asked for details, only respond with what Mariko gave you a clear for
-[] What have they been up to while we were busy?
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Okay, bear with me for a moment. After all that packing, and showing Tamiko her home, I highly doubt that was the most pleasant of experiences for Mariko. I think we should go home and have dinner with her. That might help out with her mood. I'd also like to talk about something unrelated. I mentioned the hunting thing earlier right? I wouldn't mind bringing it up here, on the way back. Mariko actually likes it when she's hunting with us. So it's a topic she's amenable to.

Talking about living arrangements with our friends who don't even have the context as to why this is a thing is going to be an even more awkward affair. I'd like to try and improve Mariko's mood first before we do so.
 
Muramasa said:
Okay, bear with me for a moment. After all that packing, and showing Tamiko her home, I highly doubt that was the most pleasant of experiences for Mariko. I think we should go home and have dinner with her. That might help out with her mood. I'd also like to talk about something unrelated. I mentioned the hunting thing earlier right? I wouldn't mind bringing it up here, on the way back. Mariko actually likes it when she's hunting with us. So it's a topic she's amenable to.

Talking about living arrangements with our friends who don't even have the context as to why this is a thing is going to be an even more awkward affair. I'd like to try and improve Mariko's mood first before we do so.
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That is... yes, I concur.
Now then, here comes change:

[X] Leave
-[X] Talk with Mariko on the way back.
--[X] "I guess there goes the day..."
---[X] Considering you still have homework and some other things to do, there is little time left for much else
--[X] Suggest getting together with Kishi for a short patrol later on (invite Ariane if her father allows it?)
--[X] "I hope you bring a healthy appetite; Uncle will probably go wild in the kitchen for dinner"

[X] Telepathy Kishi and Ariane, apologise for not having any time today
-[X] What have they been up to while we were busy?
-[X] How about going on a short patrol together once you and Mariko had dinner?

I will file away the rest for later. How is this one?
Adhoc vote count started by Naron on Jun 28, 2017 at 6:20 AM, finished with 13824 posts and 9 votes.
  • [X] Leave
    -[X] Talk with Mariko on the way back.
    --[X] "I guess there goes the day..."
    ---[X] Considering you still have homework and some other things to do, there is little time left for much else
    --[X] Suggest getting together with Kishi for a short patrol later on (invite Ariane if her father allows it?)
    --[X] "I hope you bring a healthy appetite; Uncle will probably go wild in the kitchen for dinner"
    [X] Telepathy Kishi and Ariane, apologise for not having any time today
    -[X] What have they been up to while we were busy?
    -[X] How about going on a short patrol together once you and Mariko had dinner?
    [X] Hug her?
    [x] Take one last look around, just in case to see if there's something Mariko may have missed.
    [x] Take one last look around, just in case to see if there's something Mariko may have missed.
    [x] Take one last look around, just in case to see if there's something Mariko may have missed.
    [x] Like the grey sports bottle we were originally sent for
    [x] Take one last look around, just in case to see if there's something Mariko may have missed.
    [x] Like the grey sports bottle we were originally sent for
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It has to be close to 8pm IC. I definitely want to arrange a hunt but I don't think we have time for it specifically right now. We're already going home for a late dinner as is.
 
Naron said:
There is such a thing as "too much too fast"; I believe we are getting into that territory... though this might only be my opinion because I am still reading PMAS at the moment.
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Heh, PMAS is fun, but it's a quest rooted in using what canon knowledge there is to brute force a good timeline. There's a lot of disregarded boundaries in that quest.

Anyways:

[X] Naron
 
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