Puella Magi - Memento Mori (PMMM quest)
LucidProp
Pocky Eating MafiaDoka
I'm not asking for you to write an essay.
It's at this point the salt from RL and the internet start mixing so I'm gonna back-out now before I do something stupid. Point conceded, and have a nice day.
Balduran
Smuggest Plague-Bearer
- Location
- a quiet, rainy place
I agree with @Hannz's sentiment (that the vote should have some tinge of resentment, if not to the extent it was in the earlier vote) because Tamiko doesn't have a record of perfect control. She has, as you've pointed out, had plenty of issues, and that's all the more reason that we shouldn't omit that little bit of resentment for being forgotten if that's how we interpret Tamiko.
Tamiko is not a mean person, and I agree that she would try to show restraint with her friends. however, I think that on this topic, the source of much of her misery, it makes sense for her to act a bit more bitter, a bit angrier than she would in nearly any other situation short of confronting Kimiko. These were her friends, and, even if they couldn't have helped it, I think there should be some hint of illogical resentment, some blame, that if they were really her friends they'd have remembered her. If you just don't agree with that, maybe it's my fault for not being able to believe that someone could be that instantly forgiving.
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Always Late
Lacking in coffee, sleep, and brains
- Location
- Ohio
I'm looking at two contradictory quotes from you here, so which one should I believe represents your argument and which is... not, to put it politely.
Well, don't know what I can tell you I haven't told Hannz... Oh, remember when Tamiko found out Mariko was a magical girl?
And that resentment and opportunity for revenge and lashing out was followed by:
Helping!
Tamiko hasn't really ever reacted on her resentment because there's a larger situation, extenuating circumstances. So there's no precedent to start now.
I wonder if I'm the only one who goes back and re-reads the story sometimes...
- Location
- Head in the clouds
Finding someone near/in a witch barrier is a bit different. And I find that once I decide to help someone it keeps rolling. Also Tamiko doesn't know the circumstances behind Kishi's witch.
Also people aren't consistent in the heat of the moment. Tamiko had time to calm down with Mariko. Her uncle was insulted right in front of her, and really we need to deal with the resentment hinted st before it festers.
Also people aren't consistent in the heat of the moment. Tamiko had time to calm down with Mariko. Her uncle was insulted right in front of her, and really we need to deal with the resentment hinted st before it festers.
Balduran
Smuggest Plague-Bearer
- Location
- a quiet, rainy place
One was a comment on her personality, she isn't inclined towards hurting others as some people are, and one was how I thought she would respond to a specific, extreme circumstance wherein I don't believe anyone would be completely devoid of negative feelings. They are not mutually exclusive; it's not mean to feel hurt and voice that hurt.
I really don't think the comparison holds. It's one thing to hold back from literal murder, against someone who, however badly you think of, has not really hurt you personally. It's another to face the people who you thought were your best friends, who forgot you for years, and don't seem particularly distraught by it (or not so much as Tamiko is) without any, even just passing, bitterness.
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Always Late
Lacking in coffee, sleep, and brains
- Location
- Ohio
On a conceptual level, we are in agreement. But when it comes down to brass tacks, I feel the original AW vote goes too far for even
Making Kishi cry=hurting Tamiko personally. The fact Tamiko considered letting Mariko get killed should have been enough of an indication.
They don't know anything is wrong with that yet because they don't know about the curse, and Tamiko knows this.
- Location
- Head in the clouds
People aren't logical. Her uncle was insulted by those who did the same. And teenager, that by itself is reason enough to lash out.
Humans are spectacular in justifying to themselves hurting others in small ways, while not say letting someone die in front of them. I'm willing to snap at family while mad at them and not care until the next day while being completely willing to save their life if need be.
Always Late
Lacking in coffee, sleep, and brains
- Location
- Ohio
Your opinion and experience is noted and respected, but not relevant here. You are not Tamiko. If you still want make the point of that line of thought is relevant, let's hike up the burden of proof and see some citations from you. I enjoy reading new psychology studies.
Balduran
Smuggest Plague-Bearer
- Location
- a quiet, rainy place
I'm not married to it, myself, I just feel the current vote is a little less realistic, to me, than it could be. It's probably not going to change at this point, though, so I'll live with the current one. It's not bad (I still like a lot about it) I just feel it could have been better.
I phrased myself poorly here. It's not that Mariko didn't hurt Tamiko herself, I meant Mariko didn't intentionally do it to her, Tamiko being collateral to the bullying of Kishi, and I personally would feel differently if I were the target of a slight rather than unintentional collateral, even if that's not logical. It was definitely a serious hurt for Tamiko, I just don't think it's the same level, but maybe that's just my personal values.
Yes, Tamiko, thinking rationally, has no good reason to blame them, but that doesn't mean she might anyway, as @Storyteller points out. You feel the situations you've cited provide precedent for how Tamiko should act, but I don't believe they're similar enough to have any meaningful precedent for this exact situation, only her general personality. There's also the matter of us, as voters, deciding how Tamiko reacts, defining the dark corners of her character. If you take what we've seen and believe she would not harbor any bitterness, fine. I disagree, and I don't believe there's any true precedent for her actions in this situation, so defining her how we believe humans act is a legitimate path, if not the one you choose.
Anyway, I hope you can at least see where I'm coming from here, even if you don't agree with my reasoning. At this point in the voting process, I don't think there's any point in belaboring this any further, as you said, we're not arguing over anything conceptually different, just its implementation, so I'm fine with acknowledging I've lost the vote.
Chapter 2 - Resolution 12
DrZiztah
Mumu
- Location
- Europa
[X] It wasn't his fault.
-[X] He couldn't remember you. No one could. And it wasn't just that either. Everyone ignored you and acted like you didn't exist. You've tried your hardest to speak with people, but it never worked.
[X] They must already suspect something's off about all this right? We were all best friends and only now we're just speaking? You hadn't disappeared either, you've always been here, and you've even tried to contact them numerous times before. You've tried the same with your uncle, and just about anyone you could really approach.
-[X] Ask them to actually think about it. Before they had seen you today, had they ever thought about you at all? Did they even remember you?
--[X]That's because they actually couldn't. No one could. Uncle wouldn't have just taken off and left you behind, and they wouldn't have just ignored you either.
[X] Transform.
-[X] Someone used magic to curse you so that everyone would forget and ignore you.
"It wasn't his fault!" you let out loudly, suddenly rising to stand from your seat and slamming your palms against the wooden table. Your arms shake a little from the frustration and your head feels somewhat light and woozy. "It never was..."
"I'm not finished," you say without meeting anyone's eyes before you can help yourself. If it wasn't for the rush and need to defend your family, you probably would have collapsed into a pile of misery and guilt by now. As it is, you're acting before thinking here, for better or worse. You've opened the can, and there's no going back.
"He… H-he couldn't remember me," you whisper with you voice straining itself a little again. "No one could! And it wasn't just that… E-everyone…" you swallow down a bitter-tasting lump. "They just ignored me... and acted like I didn't exist…. I-I tried, I really, really, really did- but nothing ever worked."
They don't care.
You force yourself to lift your gaze from the tableware, sneaking a quick, quiet glance at your friends, with both Yuujin and Matsuko looking more and more confused than anything else. Yet, there seems to be some sort of realization slowly but surely dawning onto them as they watch you dive into the deepest pit of your despair.
"Y-you… You must suspect something's off about all this, right?" you plead out. "We were all best friends…"
Right?
That's just a delusion of your sorry mind...
"...But only now are we just speaking? I-I didn't disappear! I-I've…. I've always been right here! I've tried contacting you, I've screamed at you through the phone! I've done everything… and it's the same with uncle too, and everyone I could approach…"
You stop for a moment to catch your breath amidst the heavy heaves and huffs. You're getting really worked up about this… But at least none of your friends seem to point it out, as they let you keep going and finish what you started.
"Please, think about it," you ask, your voice lowering to a strained whisper again. "B-before we… met each other again today, did you ever think about me at all? Even a single time? Did you even remember me?"
"I-I think you know the answer. It's because you actually couldn't..." You shake your head morosely. "No one could. Not you. Not them. Not my uncle… H-he wouldn't have just taken off and left me behind. Y-you wouldn't have just ignored me either."
But all those words ring hollow without the proof to back them up. You turn to your side and start rummaging through your bag for your Soul Gem. You present the steel-grey trinket to your friends with your mouth set to a thin line.
You trigger the transformation, and for an instant the room is filled with bright white light. By the end of it you're standing tall and upright, holding your hands gently by the Soul Gem embedded to your chest. You try to offer a wide smile, but you know that your very being radiates everything you're truly feeling under the slowly fading rush of adrenaline and the veneer of stability.
Anguish. Regret. Despair. Let them know it all...
"A-and this is what it all comes down to... magic. I-I don't even know who it was… or how it came to be..." you say. "But ever since two and a half years ago, I've been… w-well, cursed, so that no one could notice or remember me. T-this is me now, a Magical Girl, and a person just trying to live again."
What follows is a momentary stunned silence from the newly reconnected pair of your friends as they try to process everything you've just said. But what follows that is Matsuko bowing her head in shame. "I'm… sorry, for everything," she tells you. "It's just hard to digest this curse you mentioned… To think that something like that could happen? Absolutely horrifying! But it explains just so much..."
The girl rises up from her seat with a shake of her head and wobbles towards you, with her worried gaze briefly locking with your Gem. "But if you need to say or let out anything else, please do it now while you can, we'll listen. Keeping things bottled up is not good for you." Behind her, Yuujin too seems to break from her pose and approach you.
What do you do?
[] Write-in.
-[X] He couldn't remember you. No one could. And it wasn't just that either. Everyone ignored you and acted like you didn't exist. You've tried your hardest to speak with people, but it never worked.
[X] They must already suspect something's off about all this right? We were all best friends and only now we're just speaking? You hadn't disappeared either, you've always been here, and you've even tried to contact them numerous times before. You've tried the same with your uncle, and just about anyone you could really approach.
-[X] Ask them to actually think about it. Before they had seen you today, had they ever thought about you at all? Did they even remember you?
--[X]That's because they actually couldn't. No one could. Uncle wouldn't have just taken off and left you behind, and they wouldn't have just ignored you either.
[X] Transform.
-[X] Someone used magic to curse you so that everyone would forget and ignore you.
"It wasn't his fault!" you let out loudly, suddenly rising to stand from your seat and slamming your palms against the wooden table. Your arms shake a little from the frustration and your head feels somewhat light and woozy. "It never was..."
Was it them...
It doesn't seem to do much besides throw Matsuko off her current line of thoughts for a second to address you. "Tamiko-""I'm not finished," you say without meeting anyone's eyes before you can help yourself. If it wasn't for the rush and need to defend your family, you probably would have collapsed into a pile of misery and guilt by now. As it is, you're acting before thinking here, for better or worse. You've opened the can, and there's no going back.
They deserve every hit of the lash...
But perhaps it's for the better if you get all of this off your chest at once without thinking about it too much…"He… H-he couldn't remember me," you whisper with you voice straining itself a little again. "No one could! And it wasn't just that… E-everyone…" you swallow down a bitter-tasting lump. "They just ignored me... and acted like I didn't exist…. I-I tried, I really, really, really did- but nothing ever worked."
They don't care.
You force yourself to lift your gaze from the tableware, sneaking a quick, quiet glance at your friends, with both Yuujin and Matsuko looking more and more confused than anything else. Yet, there seems to be some sort of realization slowly but surely dawning onto them as they watch you dive into the deepest pit of your despair.
"Y-you… You must suspect something's off about all this, right?" you plead out. "We were all best friends…"
Right?
That's just a delusion of your sorry mind...
"...But only now are we just speaking? I-I didn't disappear! I-I've…. I've always been right here! I've tried contacting you, I've screamed at you through the phone! I've done everything… and it's the same with uncle too, and everyone I could approach…"
You stop for a moment to catch your breath amidst the heavy heaves and huffs. You're getting really worked up about this… But at least none of your friends seem to point it out, as they let you keep going and finish what you started.
"Please, think about it," you ask, your voice lowering to a strained whisper again. "B-before we… met each other again today, did you ever think about me at all? Even a single time? Did you even remember me?"
No...
Their faces, their subtly changing expressions of pondering tell you everything you need to know."I-I think you know the answer. It's because you actually couldn't..." You shake your head morosely. "No one could. Not you. Not them. Not my uncle… H-he wouldn't have just taken off and left me behind. Y-you wouldn't have just ignored me either."
But all those words ring hollow without the proof to back them up. You turn to your side and start rummaging through your bag for your Soul Gem. You present the steel-grey trinket to your friends with your mouth set to a thin line.
You trigger the transformation, and for an instant the room is filled with bright white light. By the end of it you're standing tall and upright, holding your hands gently by the Soul Gem embedded to your chest. You try to offer a wide smile, but you know that your very being radiates everything you're truly feeling under the slowly fading rush of adrenaline and the veneer of stability.
Anguish. Regret. Despair. Let them know it all...
"A-and this is what it all comes down to... magic. I-I don't even know who it was… or how it came to be..." you say. "But ever since two and a half years ago, I've been… w-well, cursed, so that no one could notice or remember me. T-this is me now, a Magical Girl, and a person just trying to live again."
What follows is a momentary stunned silence from the newly reconnected pair of your friends as they try to process everything you've just said. But what follows that is Matsuko bowing her head in shame. "I'm… sorry, for everything," she tells you. "It's just hard to digest this curse you mentioned… To think that something like that could happen? Absolutely horrifying! But it explains just so much..."
The girl rises up from her seat with a shake of her head and wobbles towards you, with her worried gaze briefly locking with your Gem. "But if you need to say or let out anything else, please do it now while you can, we'll listen. Keeping things bottled up is not good for you." Behind her, Yuujin too seems to break from her pose and approach you.
What do you do?
[] Write-in.
- Location
- Head in the clouds
whatever we end up doing I think
-[] check grief
should be part of the vote.
-[] check grief
should be part of the vote.
Always Late
Lacking in coffee, sleep, and brains
- Location
- Ohio
@Hannz, would you take it personally if made a jibe about the invisitext being you whispering in Tamiko's ear?
... OK, now I'm starting to think that there's something more going on. Maybe I'm looking too much into it, but the phrasing of that line is not really suggesting a self-directed comment, but from one person to another.
More invisitext.
Aaaand there we go.
Well that worked out great. Turns out our friends are probably not magical girls, but still an ideal result. They know everything Tamiko's been through, we haven't driven them away, and they're not hating on Uncle.
Aside from the obligatory group hug and grief check, I'm thinking of saying something to the effect of 'I don't want to lose my friends again', show how important reopening and maintaining these ties of friendship and togetherness are to Tamiko. And I'd also be open to mentioning the irrational anguish over them abandoning her. That is what Matsuko is inviting.
LucidProp
Pocky Eating MafiaDoka
Er, no? I was in a rather bad place yesterday due to problems in RL, but I don't think I've ever endorsed Tamiko being physically violent with her friends.
You're looking far too much into the invisitext. It's always addressed Tamiko as if she was another person, and I doubt Kimiko has the Grief Seeds or the will to constantly whisper in her sister's ear.
Always Late
Lacking in coffee, sleep, and brains
- Location
- Ohio
1. *whew*
2. That was going to be part of the joke.
Hannz: "You should let them know how you feel."
Tamiko: "I should tell them I feel bitter."
Hannz: "It's OK to lash out a little."
Tamiko: "I will let these poor friends know what I think about them abandoning me."
Hannz: "Good, good. Let the emotion flow through you."
Tamiko: "YES! YES! YES! I FEEL IT! I FEEL THE SALT! THEY SHALL TASTE THE LASH OF REPENTANCE AND FRIENDSHIP!"
Hannz:
See? Bit of comedic hyperbole, nothing personal.
*shurg* Ok, then.
Tamiko just has a split personality.
LucidProp
Pocky Eating MafiaDoka
Sorry, I've been rather down on the dumps lately so I'm not quite able to see as much stuff as I normally do, if that makes any sense.1. *whew*
2. That was going to be part of the joke.
Hannz: "You should let them know how you feel."
Tamiko: "I should tell them I feel bitter."
Hannz: "It's OK to lash out a little."
Tamiko: "I will let these poor friends know what I think about them abandoning me."
Hannz: "Good, good. Let the emotion flow through you."
Tamiko: "YES! YES! YES! I FEEL IT! I FEEL THE SALT! THEY SHALL TASTE THE LASH OF REPENTANCE AND FRIENDSHIP!"
Hannz:
See? Bit of comedic hyperbole, nothing personal.
Still, the world's spinning and Quests are updating so everything's fine.
Well, that's an invitation if I ever saw one.
Also, does anyone know the status of our grief seeds?
[X] Cleanse your soul gem.
-[X] Get rid of the seed if it's too full.
[X] None of this is their fault. They didn't choose to forget or ignore you. That had been taken away from them. You saw it clearly when you visited Ami in the hospital. It had been almost like there had been something missing. It wasn't really anyone's fault but still...
[X] It doesn't make you feel any better at all about this. It doesn't erase all the pain, anger, sadness, and the soul crushing loneliness that you suffered in the past two years. It doesn't change the fact that when you needed them the most, they weren't there. No one was. You were alone.
[X] And it wasn't just that. Everyone acted like you didn't exist, like you didn't matter no matter how hard you tried to reach out to them and everyone else. Your family, your friends, strangers, it didn't matter. It had been like you were invisible.
[X] After a while, you had started thinking it was your fault. That it was because you had done something. That maybe you deserved it.
[X] You know you shouldn't dwell on these feelings. It's all in the past, and things are far better now. You're surrounded by people who care about you and can be happy. But it's still hard sometimes. These thoughts and doubt just creep on you.
Most likely open to revisions or additions.
Also, does anyone know the status of our grief seeds?
[X] Cleanse your soul gem.
-[X] Get rid of the seed if it's too full.
[X] None of this is their fault. They didn't choose to forget or ignore you. That had been taken away from them. You saw it clearly when you visited Ami in the hospital. It had been almost like there had been something missing. It wasn't really anyone's fault but still...
[X] It doesn't make you feel any better at all about this. It doesn't erase all the pain, anger, sadness, and the soul crushing loneliness that you suffered in the past two years. It doesn't change the fact that when you needed them the most, they weren't there. No one was. You were alone.
[X] And it wasn't just that. Everyone acted like you didn't exist, like you didn't matter no matter how hard you tried to reach out to them and everyone else. Your family, your friends, strangers, it didn't matter. It had been like you were invisible.
[X] After a while, you had started thinking it was your fault. That it was because you had done something. That maybe you deserved it.
[X] You know you shouldn't dwell on these feelings. It's all in the past, and things are far better now. You're surrounded by people who care about you and can be happy. But it's still hard sometimes. These thoughts and doubt just creep on you.
Most likely open to revisions or additions.
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Nervos Belli
Don't think this means you've won!
- Location
- Murica
Kinda dark there Whiskers. Not saying I disagree with it, but it's kinda heavy. Maybe try and lighten the mood a bit?
Probably. But you guys had better vent at least something. I don't remember every single invisible red-text in the quest. But I remember enough of them.
Balduran
Smuggest Plague-Bearer
- Location
- a quiet, rainy place
[x] Agent Whiskers
I like my votes how I like my jackets, dark.
Ok, so this isn't relevant to the most recent update, but I had this thought recently:
Kimiko's wish was that we'd never outshine her, and it took form (at least partially) as us not being able to be remembered/acknowledged. However, that doesn't seem like it alone would cover the full meaning of that wish. My crazy little headcanon is that it limits us in other, subtle ways, too. What if, for example, we have so little success with teasing because Kimiko is bad at it, so doing a good job would be outshining her? Our combat is fine, which makes sense given that Kimiko is supposedly a very powerful magical girl (WoG somewhere in thread), but theoretically, we'd reach a cap before surpassing her power. We're also very good at making friends, but that's the one area we wished to be good in.
Thoughts, anyone?
I like my votes how I like my jackets, dark.
Ok, so this isn't relevant to the most recent update, but I had this thought recently:
Kimiko's wish was that we'd never outshine her, and it took form (at least partially) as us not being able to be remembered/acknowledged. However, that doesn't seem like it alone would cover the full meaning of that wish. My crazy little headcanon is that it limits us in other, subtle ways, too. What if, for example, we have so little success with teasing because Kimiko is bad at it, so doing a good job would be outshining her? Our combat is fine, which makes sense given that Kimiko is supposedly a very powerful magical girl (WoG somewhere in thread), but theoretically, we'd reach a cap before surpassing her power. We're also very good at making friends, but that's the one area we wished to be good in.
Thoughts, anyone?
Could be the curse's effect being a little copy of Kimiko's hatred is running around in Tamiko's head trying to keep her from outshining Kimiko (as per the wish).
Okay, I took out the Xs because this is the one vote that I really rather people not bandwagon on.
Also, if you guys think that the last line is bad, the original thought behind it was so much more worse. Hence the the taking out of Xs.
Definitely going to at least add some positivity to it later.
Also, if you guys think that the last line is bad, the original thought behind it was so much more worse. Hence the the taking out of Xs.
Definitely going to at least add some positivity to it later.
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Always Late
Lacking in coffee, sleep, and brains
- Location
- Ohio
*points*
Ending on a high note helps. Draft:
[]But all I want right now is to not lose those precious to me, to never be alone ever again. I'd like to talk with you all about our lives, I'd like to introduce you to my magical girl friends and all have fun together, I don't even care if you tease me about being Moe-which-I-am-not. I... I just want us to be friends again!
-[]group hug
Although, the last line could stand to be dropped. It's one thing to say you thought it was something you were doing, but implying suicidal thoughts is a bit much, even for someone asking 'lay it all out'.
- Location
- Ural, Russia, Earth
It's on first page, Mechanic post
We probably don't need to get rid of the seed. Still, it's better to be on the safe side.
Okay, Whisckers vote with Late ending, with my editions:
[X] Cleanse your soul gem.
-[X] Get rid of the seed if it's too full.
[X] None of this is their fault. They didn't choose to forget or ignore you. That had been taken away from them. You saw it clearly when you visited Ami in the hospital. She sensed that something was missing, but couldn't put a finger on it. It wasn't really anyone's fault but still...
[X] It doesn't make you feel any better at all about this. It doesn't erase all the pain, anger, sadness, and the soul crushing loneliness that you suffered in the past two years. It doesn't change the fact that when you needed them the most, they weren't there. No one was. You were all alone.
[X] After a while, you had started thinking it was your fault. That it was because you had done something. That maybe you deserved it. You know it's not right, but this feelings, this doubts are still here.
[X] But now, thanks to your magic, you can reach people again. You are not alone, you find friends who care about you, you can be happy. You even reach for them, your old friends. You want again to talk with them and have fun together, just like old times!
-[X] ...even if that means to be teased about being Moe. You should introduce them to Kishi, then they understand how actual Moe looks like.
[X] You just want to be friends again! Group hug?