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Puella Magi Imperatrix Mundi, or: Wherein Half Of Japan Tries To Kill You

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[x] Muramasa

I'd forgotten that the dog almost literally can't hurt us. We just have to hope that it can't hurt itself either, I guess.
 
I now have an image of Yui walking all the way to the warehouse, one arm holding Naoko over her shoulder, the other held out in front of her with the dog hanging off her forearm by its teeth and growling occasionally.
 
Well I can't say I agree with the current vote... But at least people are voting, so mission accomplished?

First, I was not suggesting we tell Kaede she'd go to sleep for 'a long time'. It could be as little as a couple days for all she knows. Hell, for all we know.

Second, I was not suggesting we make her carry Naoko's lifeless corpse. I'm perfectly willing to have Yui do it herself, as long as Kaede's gem is in her or Yumi's possession to avoid backstabbing or whatever.

Third, I do want to ask Kaede about her dog, yes. But that's not the only reason I have for waking her up.

Fourth, Whether or not disconnecting her was actually accidental is irrelevant. I'm fairly sure the entire thread was focused on Naoko for that vote, and Kaede just came along for the ride... But if we have to lie through our teeth there, that's not a big deal.

There are absolutely no security concerns with waking her up.

There are ethical concerns with waking her up, but I think it's mainly a positive thing, rather than cruel. Waking up who-knows-how-long in the future, with aged or dead friends, family, and beloved pet dog is cruel.

Waking her up and having a discussion about it, giving her a chance to try and convince us not to do so, or even giving her permission to do so under certain circumstances.... These are better options morally than just leaving her asleep indefinitely.
 
I'll be strongly advocating that we wake Kaede up for good later today, tomorrow at the latest. She's much easier to deal with and I think we have good odds of helping her get into better headspace immediately. For security and worrying about her trying to undercut us, her reaction to Naoko going off was to hug her dog and try to ignore everything. I'm not worried about that. Additionally, just plain ignoring the dog does kind of bug me.

I think that @SystemicHatter's vote works better here. I think that we do want to give her the impression that we're thinking about things for a few hours, at worst overnight, definitely not long enough that we'll have to discuss how to take care of her dog. That's just going to get ugly and I'd really like to avoid it. She's in a good enough place that we really do only need an our or two of discussion with Maiko and Yumi to figure out what makes her tick and what kind of help she needs.

[x] SystemicHatter
 
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Vebyast said:
I'll be strongly advocating that we wake Kaede up for good later today, tomorrow at the latest. She's much easier to deal with and I think we have good odds of helping her get into better headspace immediately. For security and worrying about her trying to undercut us, her reaction to Naoko going off was to hug her dog and try to ignore everything. I'm not worried about that. Additionally, just plain ignoring the dog does kind of bug me.

I think that @SystemicHatter's vote works better here. I think that we do want to give her the impression that we're thinking about things for a few hours, at worst overnight, definitely not long enough that we'll have to discuss how to take care of her dog. That's just going to get ugly and I'd really like to avoid it. She's in a good enough place that we really do only need an our or two of discussion with Maiko and Yumi to figure out what makes her tick and what kind of help she needs.

[x] SystemicHatter
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Yeah, my hopes for the dog are mainly that she teaches it that we're friendly, so that we can deal with it easier.

She'll be thinking it's just for a couple hours or days, when actually... It could just be for a couple hours or days. Either way, friendly treatment of the dog (and the dog of us) makes everybody happy.

The main objection I have against systemic's vote is that it feels underdeveloped compared to mine. Like, I wrote in conversations and actions and very much want there to be active discussion with Kaede while we travel, whereas he's just like "Hey, bring your dog for us, we don't wanna hurt him by accident. Thanks."

redzonejoe said:
[X] Approach Kaede and the dog slowly, Kaede's gem visibly in hand.
-[X] "Good doggy, loyal doggy, looking after Kaede. But she needs my help to wake up now, so let me help her okay?"
--[X] Wake Kaede up, ignore the dog as best you can if it tries to interfere.
[X] After she wakes up, take Kaede's gem back for security reasons. As long as she stays nearby it'll be fine.

[X] "Kaede, listen, I didn't really mean to knock you out right there. But I've had some time to think about it, and I think putting you back to... Uh... 'sleep' is a good idea for now."
-[X] "I can take care of your body, so when I wake you up next, it'll be like no time has passed for you. It's pretty much the closest thing to magical girl jail we have right now. But... I'm not sure what to do about your dog. And maybe you or Naoko have family that need to be contacted, or..."
--[X] Flail around a bit to indicate your current predicament.
---[X] "Look, help me out here so this whole thing can be as easy as possible. Mainly for your dog. But also for you."

[X] Take Yumi, Naoko, Kaede and probably Kaede's dog over to Maiko's meeting place.
-[X] Telepathy with Maiko to discuss the situation. Specifically, discussing Kaede and her dog's future. Either disconnect Kaede before we arrive, Or delay arrival to continue the conversation about Kaede's future.
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SystemicHatter said:
[X] Bend down and show the gem to the dog. Maybe it will recognise it and not bite you?
[X] Wake up Kaede.
-[X] "Hello Kaede. You are now the prisoner of the Magical Girl of Love and Justice, Yui-chan!"
-[X] "I didn't want to hurt your dog, so I woke you up. We're going to go somewhere, and then I'm going to disconnect you again for a bit while we have a private discussion. Give me your Soul Gem, please."
-[X] "Naoko is... uh... going to stay disconnected for a bit. She's still alive though, don't worry."
[X] Ask Yumi to carry Naoko's body. You're keeping an eye on Kaede.
-[X] If she'd rather keep an eye on Kaede while you carry Naoko, that's fine too.
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Systemic's objection towards my vote was that he's not happy telling Kaede she'd be going to sleep for a 'long time'. My vote doesn't actually say that, and it can easily be edited to ensure that's not what comes across.
 
I'm of the opinion we're just not ready to deal with Kaede yet. That's why Maiko is offering a suggestion and I'd like to hear her out before deciding on what to do with her. That includes waking her up.

redzonejoe said:
Well I can't say I agree with the current vote... But at least people are voting, so mission accomplished?

First, I was not suggesting we tell Kaede she'd go to sleep for 'a long time'. It could be as little as a couple days for all she knows. Hell, for all we know.
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That is still a very long time by any standard.

Second, I was not suggesting we make her carry Naoko's lifeless corpse. I'm perfectly willing to have Yui do it herself, as long as Kaede's gem is in her or Yumi's possession to avoid backstabbing or whatever.
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Kaede is going to be very much resistant to the idea of offering her gem a second time after she got gemmed the first. To the point we should very much consider a surprise attack as a distraction and running off. Screw the risk.

Third, I do want to ask Kaede about her dog, yes. But that's not the only reason I have for waking her up.
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I doubt she'll answer anything that's not under duress.

There are absolutely no security concerns with waking her up.
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I don't believe that. Please explain your reasoning. I think you are underestimating Kaede there.

There are ethical concerns with waking her up, but I think it's mainly a positive thing, rather than cruel. Waking up who-knows-how-long in the future, with aged or dead friends, family, and beloved pet dog is cruel.

Waking her up and having a discussion about it, giving her a chance to try and convince us not to do so, or even giving her permission to do so under certain circumstances.... These are better options morally than just leaving her asleep indefinitely.
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My vote is not to have her disconnected indefinitely. Just until we've spoken to Maiko.

@Vebyast
I think that @SystemicHatter's vote works better here. I think that we do want to give her the impression that we're thinking about things for a few hours, at worst overnight, definitely not long enough that we'll have to discuss how to take care of her dog. That's just going to get ugly and I'd really like to avoid it. She's in a good enough place that we really do only need an our or two of discussion with Maiko and Yumi to figure out what makes her tick and what kind of help she needs.
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I'm confused by this. We're are we going to get the two hours to discuss Kaede's fate if she's already up and about?
 
Muramasa said:
I'm confused by this. We're are we going to get the two hours to discuss Kaede's fate if she's already up and about?
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Was thinking we'd be disconnecting her again once we got the warehouse. Blather adorably at her on the walk over, maybe, to make things less awkward and to hopefully get more information about her, then apologize, say you need a few more hours to think, and disconnect her.

This dog is quite annoying. Wouldn't even be a question about waking her up if we didn't have to worry about it hurting itself trying to attack us or getting sad and making her sad.
 
Vebyast said:
Was thinking we'd be disconnecting her again once we got the warehouse. Blather adorably at her on the walk over, maybe, to make things less awkward and to hopefully get more information about her, then apologize, say you need a few more hours to think, and disconnect her.

This dog is quite annoying. Wouldn't even be a question about waking her up if we didn't have to worry about it hurting itself trying to attack us or getting sad and making her sad.
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Right. I really don't think Kaede is going to cooperate with anymore gemming shennanigans.

If we wake her up, we should consider her 'up' for good.
 
You know, you don't actually have to give her back the gem to wake her up?

Like, at no point do we need to completely release the gem and stand back 5 meters or something silly like that.

Gem in hand, we approach. Lean down, place the gem up against her body. Maybe watch what happens with our magic sense.

She's awake? Good. Stand up, gem still in hand, take a step back (or even help her to stand?), begin talking.

I really don't think gemming her again is going to be an issue. She has literally no say in this beyond what we give her.

She can't run. She can't kill us. She's not going to force us to kill her.

All that's left is for her to cooperate for the good of her dog.

Therefore, no security issues. None. She may not even be transformed.
 
Echo said:
Seeing as the magic comes from the Soul Gem, I'd assume that disconnecting the body also makes it lose the transformation. That how it'll work in this Quest, anyway.
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I couldn't remember if Sayaka was transformed or not on the bridge. I think Madoka tossed her gem before she actually transformed in the first place, right?

And then Naoko was untransformed even before we disconnected her, so...

Yeah. Kaede won't even be transformed. Security is not an issue.
 
redzonejoe said:
You know, you don't actually have to give her back the gem to wake her up?

Like, at no point do we need to completely release the gem and stand back 5 meters or something silly like that.

Gem in hand, we approach. Lean down, place the gem up against her body. Maybe watch what happens with our magic sense.

She's awake? Good. Stand up, gem still in hand, take a step back (or even help her to stand?), begin talking.

I really don't think gemming her again is going to be an issue. She has literally no say in this beyond what we give her.

She can't run. She can't kill us. She's not going to force us to kill her.

All that's left is for her to cooperate for the good of her dog.

Therefore, no security issues. None. She may not even be transformed.
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That would infuriate her. The only cooperation you would get from her after that is under duress. If we do it that way, defusing Kaede will be virtually impossible which would severe limit any viable, permanent solutions.

I really don't like that approach. At all.
 
Muramasa said:
That would infuriate her. The only cooperation you would get from her after that is under duress. If we do it that way, defusing Kaede will be virtually impossible which would severe limit any viable, permanent solutions.

I really don't like that approach. At all.
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???

Why would it infuriate her?

"Hey, you're still an enemy, so while I'm doing you the favor of taking off your handcuffs, I'm definitely not giving you back your gun"

Why would she refuse to cooperate?

"Look, we didn't want to hurt your dog, so we'd appreciate your help with making him friendly. In the meantime, we're taking Naoko's body somewhere for storage, want to talk while we travel?"

Like under no circumstances do I see her being particularly difficult. Sullen, perhaps, but being actively uncooperative hurts nobody but herself.
 
Echo said:
In this Quest, Kyubey is obliged to make a contract with any girl who asks.

I'm pretty sure that even in canon, once the wish is offered, Kyubey can't back out. Otherwise he would have NOPE'd out of Madoka's apotheosis right quick.
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He did flat out tell Jeanne "no, you should make another wish".
 
I wrote my vote because I was unhappy with @redzonejoe's vote and couldn't figure out a way to carry Kaede without risking injury to her dog. Yui will likely still experience pain from dog bites (though no injury) and I'm worried she might accidentally react and hurt the dog.

Still, listening to Maiko first seems reasonable.

[X] Muramasa
 
redzonejoe said:
???

Why would it infuriate her?

"Hey, you're still an enemy, so while I'm doing you the favor of taking off your handcuffs, I'm definitely not giving you back your gun"

Why would she refuse to cooperate?

"Look, we didn't want to hurt your dog, so we'd appreciate your help with making him friendly. In the meantime, we're taking Naoko's body somewhere for storage, want to talk while we travel?"

Like under no circumstances do I see her being particularly difficult. Sullen, perhaps, but being actively uncooperative hurts nobody but herself.
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As I see it, the act of surrender or in this case turning over her gem is an agreement to stand down and be a captive and in turn no harm is done to you and yours.

We broke that with the unintentional disconnect. Yes, she's still at our mercy (and that will absolutely be apparent when she wakes up) but that in no way lends in any way to diffusing her permanently.

We lose even that small amount of trust. She'll be useless beyond the bare of minimum cooperation she needs to get out of this.

We're going to need more then what amounts to lip service if we want Kaede to leave without desire to retaliate. And much more then that if you intend to recruit her one day.

When you wake her up, If you don't want to completely lose Kaede, let her keep her gem.
 
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