Puella Magi Imperatrix Mundi, or: Wherein Half Of Japan Tries To Kill You
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If someone kills the Joker I'd definitely be more likely to stick around Gotham. Does this make me someone you don't want around?
Having Kaede and Naoko is going to be seriously disruptive both socially and practically, costing enough time and attention (and seeds) that we won't be able to save other girls. It's just a fact.
Also Echo did not say that the vote didn't affect Yumi's decision, just that she was thinking about leaving anyway.
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redzonejoe
Vaguely Pastafarian
- Location
- Canada
Mostly the people leaning towards execution using this to reinforce their position.
that could work, but it's not something we can just assume. Works as written, maybe an addition to ensure Maiko is properly considered as an option.
You're simplifying this problem somewhat. It's not 'I'd be happier if you killed her' and more 'I'd be happier if you agreed with me on core issues that could affect my life in a major way.'
I will always support a person's right to be smug!
I agree he could tone down the ass part though.
NO. DON'T DO IT. It's not worth it man, trust me.
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For me it's that I've always agreed with Yumi and Maiko.
Also, we haven't agreed to not kill, we've just delayed deciding (as Yui says herself in the update).
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LostDeviljho
Flame Dragon Princess
- Location
- The glorious Pacific Northwest
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There's a difference between "oh, that serial killer who was running around is dead, guess the place is safer now" and "If you kill that guy I don't like you have tied up over there then I'll stick around."
One is reasonable, the other is more likely to make me shoot you then the other guy.
So we either exile them or keep them Gemmed indefinitely. Killing them doesn't actually save anyone because they're not threatening anyone.
Not the way Letters phrased it, it's not.
- Location
- England
My vindication is that Yumi and Maiko both said pretty much everything I'd have said in their position.
Yeah, I must've missed that.
Might have something to do with Echo never actually saying that.
Look, I'll stop being a smug ass when you stop being a self-righteous prick.
So, never.
Yeah, I must've missed that.
Might have something to do with Echo never actually saying that.
Look, I'll stop being a smug ass when you stop being a self-righteous prick.
So, never.
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And the former is what's going on here.
Exiling them kills more people later. Gemming indefinitely is either equivalent to killing them or is going to take up more time and attention later.
Though I admit that indefinite gemming is something I can get behind. I just don't want them being kept around in a state where they can talk or fight.
Yes, my phrasing was bad. Moving on?
- Location
- South Africa
Well, that went even worse than I thought. I suppose I should have predicted that though. I would probably have reacted even worse than Yumi did. I certainly would have wanted Yui to kill them.
...
Actually, I'd be planning to smash their gems while Yui is distracted. Maybe you should bare that in mind.
...
Actually, I'd be planning to smash their gems while Yui is distracted. Maybe you should bare that in mind.
LostDeviljho
Flame Dragon Princess
- Location
- The glorious Pacific Northwest
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- Any
He said that he already had the last bit half done several posts ago. If the vote had actually effected her decision, he wouldn't have been able to do that.Yeah, I must've missed that.
Might have something to do with Echo never actually saying that.
I'm not a self righteous prick most of the time. I can count on one hand the number of posts by you I've seen where you're not being a smug ass.
No, it's not. Naoko is completely at our mercy and a threat to no one, and we can keep her that way indefinitely. This is exactly the second of those two.
Killing a helpless captive should not be enticement.
Yumi isn't you though, she's not nearly so extreme from what we've seen.
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She could say a few of the same types of things but decide to provisionally stay.
Do you actually think that she'll be kept gemmed indefinitely? Because the moment that changes she becomes a threat again.
In fact, even if she does stay gemmed she's a constant distraction that the world can ill afford.
redzonejoe
Vaguely Pastafarian
- Location
- Canada
... Can we stop flinging shit at each other and actually work on crafting votes?
[] Look, Yumi, I think you've got a couple misconceptions about me. we need to have a real, one-on-one talk soon so I can set the record straight.
-[] But while you're correct in that I wouldn't be satisfied with 'merely coexisting', as you said, I think your assessment of your options is a bit off.
--[] Anyways, that something we can discuss later. I'll want to confer with my allies first, and we still need to settle things with those three, and uh... deal with these bodies.
[] Talk to Rio, Fuuka, and Kiyomi. Get everything with them in order, and ask them to contact us at their convenience once they've had some time to think things over.
[] Help Maiko move the bodies. Oh god that's gross.
-[] Figure out what to do about Kaede's dog. We can't just let it go wild, and we should probably do something more than just dropping it off at the local pound.
[] Time to arrange a meeting for team Yui.
-[] Asami might be busy, so talk to Minami and Maiko over at HQ
[] Topics for discussion: Yumi, Naoko and Kaede, other junk
Here's a foundation. Let's smooth this out, then build on it yeah?
So any major flaws or objections? Any minor corrections to word or tone?
[] Look, Yumi, I think you've got a couple misconceptions about me. we need to have a real, one-on-one talk soon so I can set the record straight.
-[] But while you're correct in that I wouldn't be satisfied with 'merely coexisting', as you said, I think your assessment of your options is a bit off.
--[] Anyways, that something we can discuss later. I'll want to confer with my allies first, and we still need to settle things with those three, and uh... deal with these bodies.
[] Talk to Rio, Fuuka, and Kiyomi. Get everything with them in order, and ask them to contact us at their convenience once they've had some time to think things over.
[] Help Maiko move the bodies. Oh god that's gross.
-[] Figure out what to do about Kaede's dog. We can't just let it go wild, and we should probably do something more than just dropping it off at the local pound.
[] Time to arrange a meeting for team Yui.
-[] Asami might be busy, so talk to Minami and Maiko over at HQ
[] Topics for discussion: Yumi, Naoko and Kaede, other junk
Here's a foundation. Let's smooth this out, then build on it yeah?
So any major flaws or objections? Any minor corrections to word or tone?
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What misconceptions would these be?
LostDeviljho
Flame Dragon Princess
- Location
- The glorious Pacific Northwest
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- Any
Nooot really. Stick her in the stasis machine and she requires no more attention than any of Maiko's other seeds.
That we're gonna crash and burn.
redzonejoe
Vaguely Pastafarian
- Location
- Canada
Idealistic to the point of naivety, unwilling to make hard decisions when they're necessary, etc.
Basically she thinks we're too idealistic, and to use her own words, we might crash and burn with our ideals. I want to convince her this isn't the case.
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PhDEevee
Mathematician and Questgiver
- Location
- Sydney
I don't think it was a colossal failure, as someone else put it. It could have been much worse. I do, however, think that the result was not great.
Also, yeah, poor Kaede. Particularly as Naoko just made fun of her for crying after her first kill, which is, you know, the normal reaction.
---
Aya is a potential major issue, as is Suzume. Aya holds Yui responsible for Hisae's death, which is something that's going to have to be worked through, if they decide to stay.
Also, it's kind of funny that Yumi specifically talks about girls who didn't have the power to realise their ideals. That's literally what Yui wished for.
@redzonejoe The latter parts of your vote are good. I'm not too happy with the way the first part is worded - I'll put some suggestions up in my next post.
- Location
- England
Ha! No.
Read it carefully. Echo implied that it was possible to dramatically change her opinion, just that it wasn't likely that we'd do so. It could, and probably is, that Echo simply anticipated the outcome. I know I did, much as I wanted it to go differently.
I can pretty much guarantee you that if we'd killed them the speech would still have happened, but it would have been very different and might not have happened then and there, simply because the core of her objection is that she thinks we're acting suicidally idealistic, and she'd rather not die with us.
Not acting (in a way she would perceive as) suicidally idealistic would have been something to alter, or at least reduce, that impression. Hence altering the speech.
You would have realized all of this if you had given it a moment's thought.
Lovely, you're sanctimonious and you have no self-awareness. You must be a treat to interact with.
LostDeviljho
Flame Dragon Princess
- Location
- The glorious Pacific Northwest
- Pronouns
- Any
I'm not denying that I can be a self-righteous prick. Hell, I'm not even denying that I'm being one right now. I'm just not one all the time.
And no, I'm not being sanctimonious. I have my position on what I believe is morally right, but I'm not waving it over anyone.
Warning: get a room already you two
get a room already you two
Gents, this argument has devolved to nothing but straight-up shit-slinging. Per forum policy, I'm giving you both a 1-day threadban to cool off and chill out. You're free to disagree with each other, but go after the argument and not the person, yeah?
bird_poison
Knowing their wrath, unfettered and raw
- Location
- margarita
I think the result was good. Naoko talked too much, but the rest went smootly.
PhDEevee
Mathematician and Questgiver
- Location
- Sydney
Okay, so - trying to tell Yumi she hasn't quite worked Yui out isn't going to work unless we can provide something which changes that opinion. Also, it's probably not going to be a one-on-one talk, I should think - we'll probably bring Maiko in as well. So just thinking how to write this, here's my idea:
[] "I can't really blame you for feeling that way. You can't do anyone any good if you're dead."
-[] "That's why I wished for power. So I wouldn't be too weak to do what I wanted to do. So I wouldn't just end up dead like Kisaragi Momoko did."
-[] "I'd like to have a more private talk with you and my 'mysterious' ally, but if you still want to leave after that, that's okay. Just remember you're always welcome in Nagamioka."
-[] "Er... just let me deal with everything else first."
redzonejoe
Vaguely Pastafarian
- Location
- Canada
Eh, this works, but...
Part of my approach is disagreement about our idealism. More specifically, that our idealism isn't going to be a liability that brings us down and our allies with it.
Personal power doesn't mean much if using it causes us to go into a grief spiral, like if we had chosen to kill Naoko.
The other thing is that, while I agree with the prospect of introducing Maiko into the conversation, I also want to leave room for Maiko and other voters to object.
Hmm, counter-proposal:
[] "I can't really blame you for feeling that way. I do think I can change your mind about me. We need to have a frank conversation before you make any hasty decisions about whether to stay or leave."
-[] "I made my wish knowing I'd be risking my life, and knowing I'd have to fight other magical girls too. I came into this conflict with a goal, and to reach it I wished for power. So I wouldn't be too weak to do what I wanted to do. So I wouldn't just end up dead like Kisaragi Momoko did."
-[] "I think I'd like to introduce you to my "mysterious ally", if neither of you object. If you still want to leave after hearing me out, that's okay. Just remember you're always welcome in Nagamioka."
-[] "Er... just let me deal with everything else first."
PhDEevee
Mathematician and Questgiver
- Location
- Sydney
Seems good. I'd change this bit slightly though:
"We need to have a frank conversation before you make
She's been thinking this over for a few days. We don't want to come off as insulting.
redzonejoe
Vaguely Pastafarian
- Location
- Canada
Alright, so the current vote looks like this?
[] "I can't really blame you for feeling that way. I do think I can change your mind about me. We need to have a frank conversation before you make your final decision on whether to stay or leave."
-[] "I made my wish knowing I'd be risking my life, and knowing I'd have to fight other magical girls too. I came into this conflict with a goal, and to reach it I wished forpower. So I wouldn't be too weak to do what I wanted to do. So I wouldn't just end up dead like Kisaragi Momoko did."
-[] "I think I'd like to introduce you to my "mysterious ally", if neither of you object. If you still want to leave after hearing me out, that's okay. Just remember you're always welcome in Nagamioka."
-[] "Er... just let me deal with everything else first."
[] Talk to Rio, Fuuka, and Kiyomi. Get everything with them in order, and ask them to contact us at their convenience once they've had some time to think things over.
[] Help Maiko move the bodies. Oh god that's gross.
-[] Figure out what to do about Kaede's dog. We can't just let it go wild, and we should probably do something more than just dropping it off at the local pound.
[] Time to arrangea meeting for team Yui.
-[] Asami might be busy, so talk to Minami and Maiko over at HQ
[] Topics for discussion: Yumi, Naoko and Kaede, other junk
Which part should we work on next? I feel like it still needs work.
[] "I can't really blame you for feeling that way. I do think I can change your mind about me. We need to have a frank conversation before you make your final decision on whether to stay or leave."
-[] "I made my wish knowing I'd be risking my life, and knowing I'd have to fight other magical girls too. I came into this conflict with a goal, and to reach it I wished forpower. So I wouldn't be too weak to do what I wanted to do. So I wouldn't just end up dead like Kisaragi Momoko did."
-[] "I think I'd like to introduce you to my "mysterious ally", if neither of you object. If you still want to leave after hearing me out, that's okay. Just remember you're always welcome in Nagamioka."
-[] "Er... just let me deal with everything else first."
[] Talk to Rio, Fuuka, and Kiyomi. Get everything with them in order, and ask them to contact us at their convenience once they've had some time to think things over.
[] Help Maiko move the bodies. Oh god that's gross.
-[] Figure out what to do about Kaede's dog. We can't just let it go wild, and we should probably do something more than just dropping it off at the local pound.
[] Time to arrangea meeting for team Yui.
-[] Asami might be busy, so talk to Minami and Maiko over at HQ
[] Topics for discussion: Yumi, Naoko and Kaede, other junk
Which part should we work on next? I feel like it still needs work.
- Location
- Houston,Tx
It should be noted that yui did not make her wish with the knowledge that she would have to fight magical girls btw.
redzonejoe
Vaguely Pastafarian
- Location
- Canada
The thread definitely knew, but I feel like Yui had some idea too.
Kyubey said:
Note the bolded; perhaps not magical girls then, but still people, not monsters. We knew we'd be fighting humans, and that's the important part. The 'magical girl' part of it really only adds physical difficulty... And apparently not much of it.