Paradoxical [Destiny/Worm Post-GM]

[Schielman]

Probably stealing the Cabals version of rideables.

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Interceptors don't go very fast though.

 

[shade argost]

Huh, I thought there was other things there as well, probably from the fallen?

 

[Mother Nyx]

That's... probably a completely justified reaction.

The problem I'm trying to deal with is a balance. Namely between Weaver, the woman who's been Risen for 20+ years and effectively a new character with some of Taylor's traits but largely unrelatable to those who want to see Taylor, and Taylor, the flawed but easily relatable and known character that she is.

There needs to be connection, and enough that readers aren't alienated by the (effectively) new character Weaver is.

Now, part of the point of the story is leaning towards Weaver's side. This isn't Taylor's world, and this isn't Taylor's time period, so the memories that are 'her' don't exactly have much to latch onto other than the small events that connect the two (such as resemblance and nostalgia). This is Weaver's world, and it's very very different from anything Taylor had to deal with, with much worse consequences (oh hey there Oryx), and so she's naturally going to be the one taking most of the stage.

The introduction of "Taylor" was also partly to create both inner conflict and because it feels... wrong(? I guess?) having a Taylor who's not Taylor with Taylor's powers.

...If that makes sense.

The other thing that introducing 'Taylor' does is make things fresh. When we're back in the Reef it's suddenly not going to be a depiction of Weaver's day-to-day boring stuff, but instead her seeing a lot of this all in a different way, with lots of internal thoughts and reflection.

Cognitive dissonance is something I find really interesting, and something that Split does extremely well, and part of the reason I want(ed) to do this story so much is because I want to explore that.

But yeah, in the end this is Weaver's story. Taylor's already had hers. :)

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I'll preface by saying that I love your writing, lmao.

If what you're saying is true, the pros outweigh the cons on just... not bringing back Taylor.

Writers tend to do things like this with badass characters and it infuriates me. There is way to have conflict for her, without de-badassibg her. I am not saying you have killed potential the character could have had because I trust you as a writer, but this is the type of thing that does and it makes me wary nonetheless.

 

[Darkfire]

"I thin—" the Ghost was cut off as the door to the medical room opened, a still-armored Zachary entering with two different containers of food in his hands.

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I can't help but instantly dislike the Guardian for interrupting their conversation.

…Wait, why am I even telling him this?

…

Shit. This was already affecting her more than she expected.

He reminded her of Brian, at least in attitude and emotions, and she'd just slipped right into that easy camaraderie with him without even thinking about it.

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And now I can't help but feel vindicated by my dislike.

I don't remember Taylor being this open with Brian though. In fact, the only character whom I remember Taylor having a heart to heart with is Lisa. I might be wrong though.

By the way, love the new story, Ensou!

 

[13th Bee]

Since it seems that Weaver's/Taylor's connection with QA went active again when she came inside the range mentioned in some Worm WoGs (powers stop working a certain distance out into space, something around lunar orbit IIRC), will her connection go inactive again when she leaves Earth?

 

[Vebyast]

Writers tend to do things like this with badass characters and it infuriates me. There is way to have conflict for her, without de-badassibg her.

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I think I'm still confused about how bringing back a bit of Skitter/Khepri is "de-badassing" her. Skitter is one of the most hardcore characters I know of that isn't unbelievable. Like, if you're looking for "stone-cold badass that doesn't talk much except when she's literally scaring the piss out of whoever got her to stop lurking and decide to do something", that's Skitter to a tee. The problem is that Skitter is terrifying, not just bad-ass, and those aren't methods that Weaver wants to use.

 

[ensou]

Writers tend to do things like this with badass characters and it infuriates me. There is way to have conflict for her, without de-badassibg her.

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those aren't methods that Weaver wants to use.

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I mean, considering her apparent role to the Queen...

The issue isn't losing her badass...ness (she's certainly not any softer than she was before by regaining Skitter, the girl who took over a city with bugs and two years later was seen as one of the strongest up-and-coming capes in the world with butterflies) or being terrifying (if anything she's probably even worse now, with the memories of being a warlord).

No, the real issue now is being unintentionally terrifying, because then you might be scaring off people you don't want to and when you're playing foreign diplomat to a bunch of Really Important People (like now)... not so helpful.

Still, I thank you for your trust. I'm about 90% sure you won't be disappointed. If you like(d) AFHB, you'll probably like this.

 

[Mizu]

I've got no issues with the current chapter lengths. As someone said, it's like cutscenes between campaign missions, where we get snippets of lore and story before heading off to shoot aliens into tiny pieces

 

[Spectrum]

It's about presentation. ensou opened with an outside look on Weaver with:

Long, dark curly hair, and a lightweight armor of muted dark grays and black panels. She stood there uncaring, her back against wall, nothing covering her face other than loose fabric around her neck, but still so shadowed it was impossible to make out distinct features or even her skin color.

He would have sworn she was a Hunter, hand cannon strapped to her thigh and all, if not for the singular fact that no self-respecting Hunter would be caught dead without their cloak, or even just a hood.

The other two things that stood out were the symbols onto her chest and shoulder plates. The Queen's crown, in grey and darker grey rather than its normal purple and gold, was on the upper left of her chest plate, and a… beetle? of some sort, was on her shoulder.

"Strange. I wonder what she was there for…" the Ghost mused.

Did it matter? It looked like she belonged there, at the least.

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"Our Weaver shall join you," the Queen spoke, looking down at him. "To protect our investment."

The tall dark-haired woman at the side of room moved, standing up straight, and then stepped forward into the light, and he barely managed to contain his surprise.

She was human.

Not Awoken. Human. In the Reef.

No brightly-colored glowing eyes or odd shifting patterns of light or blue-to-purple skin tone.

Human. Caucasian. Dark green eyes and near-black hair. Tall, only an inch shorter than himself and he was fairly tall.

And yet she'd still turned and bowed her head to the white-haired woman standing regally on the raised dais before them, something seeming to pass between the two momentarily, between green and pale blue-glowing irides, before it was gone. "By your leave, my Lady."

A human in the Reef who followed the Queen.

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There's certain expectations built up based on behavior.

And then we get a look into her 'present' mind only post re-acquiring passenger and all of a sudden she's something of a hot mess and isn't vaguely appearing like she was before.

 

[Serana Is Bae]

What I still don't undestand is why Zachary is here at all? Is he really needed for the story to unfold? I mean right now he is merely a plot device that made Taylor leave the Reef to luckily get reconnected to QA. I don't know why I even asked that question, of course he's here for the long run, he reminds Taylor of Brian... Taylor is rather adept at making buddy buddy with complete strangers so I'm not that surprised.

 

[Anfan]

What I still don't undestand is why Zachary is here at all? Is he really needed for the story to unfold? I mean right now he is merely a plot device that made Taylor leave the Reef to luckily get reconnected to QA. I don't know why I even asked that question, of course he's here for the long run, he reminds Taylor of Brian... Taylor is rather adept at making buddy buddy with complete strangers so I'm not that surprised.

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Isn't he supposed to be the player in the game? I don't know the crossover, but that was my guess by context. Taylor is simply a force of chaos and change in the game plot. Added in to throw things off course.

 

[ensou]

What I still don't undestand is why Zachary is here at all?

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Isn't he supposed to be the player in the game? I don't know the crossover, but that was my guess by context. Taylor is simply a force of chaos and change in the game plot. Added in to throw things off course.

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This. Zachary is effectively the player character in Destiny. The protagonist. And in-universe, well, the player character is ridiculous. Like, prophesied savior, almost all major events unfolding around them and defeating enemies who killed literally thousands of other Guardians before them ridiculous. Protagonist power is at its maximum (and which I'm toning down in here no matter what because it really is ridiculous).

His role in this story is to get Taylor out of the Reef. He'd be doing his own things whether Taylor was with him or not, and when they go their own ways after the Black Garden, he'll be doing his thing and she'll be doing her stuff, and the story will follow Weaver (until something happens that the Awoken get involved in, probably). But yes, he's a good point to start causing chaos and upsetting the plot, and the image of this shadowy woman standing off to the side while the player character met the Queen the first time (basically the prologue) was what inspired all of this.

I wanted to try telling this story primarily through outside sources and maintain some degree of mystery (which I seem to have already failed at, but I really wanted to do the QA chapter, and then this one logically followed and... ugh. yeah.). The problem is that he's the only notable person who's really been around her in-story, so I don't have any other perspectives to use yet.

...And now I'm debating the actual weight/importance of this chapter in the overall story and if it should get cut to try and maintain that outside-perspective format. I think her thoughts and decisions in such a shaky period are important, though, and there was one more Taylor chapter left to tie them up neatly before it moved back to mostly other perspectives.

 

[Anfan]

I wanted to try telling this story primarily through outside sources and maintain some degree of mystery (which I seem to have already failed at, but I really wanted to do the QA chapter, and then this one logically followed and... ugh. yeah.).

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I hate mystery stoires. Therefore I not only forgive you for not being able to keep a secrete, I applaud you. (Sorry, I know it can be awkward if someone is applauding things you feel are mistakes, but IMHO it wasn't a mistake )

I like your writing style no matter what you are writing. Though, Hunter was a bit dark for me. I'll continue to read this simply because it's entertaining and want to support your exploration of your idea.

You do good work!

 

[13th Bee]

...And now I'm debating the actual weight/importance of this chapter in the overall story and if it should get cut to try and maintain that outside-perspective format. I think her thoughts and decisions in such a shaky period are important, though, and there was one more Taylor chapter left to tie them up neatly before it moved back to mostly other perspectives.

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Well, one possibility is to switch it to being Kali's point of view. She's known Weaver long enough that there can be some good dissonance between how Weaver "should" be acting and how Weaver is acting while at the same time Kali has knows Weaver well enough that she should have good insight into what Weaver is thinking/feeling. You can dial dissonance or the familiarity up or down to get the chapter you want.

Do Guardians and their Ghosts have an empathic link of some sort? I think that they might have in some other fic I've read, but I have no knowledge of Destiny canon (I could be misremembering or it could've been invented for whatever fic it was).

 

[Spectrum]

I do have to admit that part of my disgruntlement is seeing Taylor first thing all of a sudden thinking of Brian of all people.

A long been since dead and come back Taylor + a badass Weaver Risen who lived on her own in enemy territory and carved a place out for herself in the Reef immediately thinking of her old first boyfriend who IMHO she never really had much of a real relationship with anyway vexes me.

 

[ensou]

I do have to admit that part of my disgruntlement is seeing Taylor first thing all of a sudden thinking of Brian of all people.

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It's already been removed. I was pretty unsure about it as well but decided to just post the segment. After taking a few hours' break to do other things, I went back and read it over again and decided I agreed that it felt out of place.

 

[Vebyast]

Well, one possibility is to switch it to being Kali's point of view.

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Triple word score if you can pull off a Baten Kaitos.

(if you haven't played it to find out the twist I'm talking about, I'm definitely not going to spoil it here.)

 

[IAmARobot]

Ensouuuu

Please keep writing forever never stop or I'll send motivational bats after you >

 

[Mr. Mica]

A lot

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Much like Teachers, Game Masters, and others, the role of a Writer is Information Dissemination. (Sounds like a superpower, right?)
How you convey your meaning and intent to the poor scrubs whose role is to sponge it all up (And they will all do it differently), will change how they perceive it.
Mystery is about conveying the idea that something is there, without telling it is there and only leaving vague hints. Showing your hand at all early on can have adverse effects, since it kills at least a part of the mystery. People want to be confounded, kept away, and lost in speculation. (Mostly because anything they can dream up is better than what you did, but hey.)

So while this story' perspective change did take away some of the mystery, it did not really ruin anything. Hells, you could probably leverage it to even more confusion, should you want to.

(And remember, with great Power comes great Responsibility.)

 

[ensou]

Spoiler: Voices

If you want to know what the characters actually sound like, the The Taken King's second cutscene is probably the best way to do that. And yes, there are (some) spoilers.

---

Three leaders stood at their long table, the large room around them empty as dusk fell outside the large windows at the end of the room. At the end of the table, a tall blue-skinned man armored in full cut an imposing figure that sharply contrasted both the shorter dark-skinned woman dressed in clothes akin to robes and the bright blue android in light leather-like armor accented by a long cape.

"So. Onto the final topic today before we conclude today's meeting. I have heard we have a… visitor," Zavala said, looking between his counterpart Vanguard Leaders. "From the Reef?"

"The Weaver," Ikora confirmed.

"That's… ominous," Cayde-6 noted, crossing his arms.

"My Hidden have told me that in the Reef she's also known as the 'Queen's Blade', one of her favored enforcers and among the most skilled of her guards," Ikora informed them. "…And she is human."

"But the Awoken don't host anybody other than themselves," Cayde said. "We know that. You can visit, but you can't stay."

"Yes. Well. She would appear to be the exception to that rule," remarked Zavala.

"Fine. Humanity aside, what's she here for?" Cayde asked.

"One of the Titans—" "Zachary—" the other two started at the same time, then looked at each other, Zavala motioning with his hand for Ikora to speak. She took a breath, then restarted.

"One of the Titans came to me with word and questions about the Black Garden, the Heart at its center, and its interactions with the Traveler. He was given his information by an Exo woman he had encountered in the Ishtar ruins on Venus. After I confirmed his Ghost's suggestion that the Awoken would have the best knowledge of how to reach it, he thanked me and left."

Zavala nodded. "Zachary requested a mission to visit the Reef and attempt contact with the Awoken in an effort to gain entrance to the Black Garden, which I approved. Later, I received a completion report saying he had been successful, and requested a follow-up mission to hunt a Vex Gate Lord and return to the Reef, which I also approved. The report after that was positive as well, noting that the Queen had assigned him protection and assistance, which we know now was the Weaver."

"That's…"

"Unexpected, yes. But not unappreciated," said Ikora.

"But why now?" Cayde asked. "Why not earlier?"

"Perhaps something has changed?" Zavala offered.

"My Hidden haven't reported any significant events or recent shifts for the Awoken."

There was a lull in the conversation as they considered the possibilities.

"…I hate mysteries," Cayde commented, breaking the silence and saying what they were all thinking. "So she's here, now. And something happened, right? There're rumors."

"Zachary requested medical support as he approached the Tower. He arrived with a woman who was in a near-catatonic state and unresponsive, so they moved her to a medical room," Ikora recounted. "Five hours later, she regained consciousness, but reported that there was a barrier around her with a radius of sixteen feet that only Guardians could enter and that she'd likely need to stay in the Tower until she was able to disable it. She said that a meditation room would be enough if we had them."

"Well, I heard that people saw a Ghost around her," Cayde said. "So either she's just randomly carrying a Ghost around or…"

"Or she is a Guardian," Zavala concluded, Ikora nodding. He looked at his two counterparts. "We need to know more."

"I'm going to grant her request for a meditation room as well as have accommodations in the Tower offered if she would like them. Whatever else she is, she's still a highly-valued member of the Queen's personal retinue," Ikora told them.

Cayde looked between them, silent for a moment.

"I'll talk to her."

The others looked back at him.

"Out of the three of us, who do you think she might be more open to? The… serious, imposing Titan," he gestured at Zavala, "the secretive, intelligent Warlock," his other hand went up towards Ikora, "or the roguish, easy-going, nonthreatening Hunter?" he finished, indicating towards himself.

Ikora slowly nodded. "That… could work."

"So we're good then? Everything's decided, nothing more for tonight…?" Cayde asked.

Zavala sighed "…Yes. You may leave, Cayde."

"Great. See you tomorrow!" And without another word the Exo turned and strode out of the large room.

Ikora and Zavala just looked at each other, commiserating in silence over their third teammate.

---

A/N: Vanilla D2 Cayde is a travesty that never should have happened.

 

[KaneTW]

A/N: D2 is a travesty that never should have happened.

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Agreed.

 

[Tel Janin Aman]

I'm a little confused on how old Weaver is supposed to be. She's called risen which implies she was around before the City was established but in an earlier post you say she is only 20+.

 

[Vebyast]

I'm a little confused on how old Weaver is supposed to be. She's called risen which implies she was around before the City was established but in an earlier post you say she is only 20+.

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I think that it's less "predates Tower" and more "is not a Guardian but still has a Ghost"? Presumably there're a number of Guardians that predate the Tower, but joined the group and adopted the new title instead of remaining "Risen".

"Out of the three of us, who do you think she might be more open to? The… serious, imposing Titan," he gestured at Zavala, "the secretive, intelligent Warlock," his other hand went up towards Ikora, "or the roguish, easy-going, nonthreatening Hunter?" he finished, indicating towards himself.

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Good old Cayde. Social-fu incoming.

 

[Kitsunedarkfire]

I think that it's less "predates Tower" and more "is not a Guardian but still has a Ghost"? Presumably there're a number of Guardians that predate the Tower, but joined the group and adopted the new title instead of remaining "Risen".

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Yeah all three of the vanguard, Shaxx, whats left of the Iron Lords, Osiris to name off the most famous of a rather large percentage of guardians.

 

[deadcrystal]

Maybe she could do something like retract the range so that it only included her? Like a reverse of how it had seemed to expand with conflict. But Lisa had said that the range for this power was fixed, so maybe that wasn't possible?

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Pcha, you're a Risen Weaver, the rules only apply if you want them to. Especially against mere alien biotech subject to base reality.

"Everything's changing and I don't understand and I-I'm— Weaver, I'm scared." Taylor swallowed, her throat thick. "What am I supposed to be doing?" the Ghost asked, her voice high and panicked. "I don't even have an idea what you're thinking anymore!"

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Kali's anxiety and Weaver's empathy for her are great here, help build up the fact that they're been together for years.

Kali stared at her. "…What's a cable box?"

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When using metaphors, consider your audience.

"It's like the radio in our Seeker I had to replace last month

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Hildian Seeker? P nice.

A memory rose, unbidden. A six year-old Taylor, looking up her Mom, the remnants of broken dinner plates around her. 'I-I'm sorry!' she blubbered, before her mother drew her into a hug and told her everything was alright.

An apology and understanding comfort all in one.

'…Thanks, Passenger.'

A vague sense of satisfaction, drawn from a perfect grade she'd gotten in middle school.

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And they can communicate! Kind of awkwardly admittedly, but pretty good considering that QA doesn't think like a human. QA may have thought she was Taylor briefly, but she wasn't actually a very accurate version of her.

Taylor almost choked, and had to pound on her chest to dislodge something stuck in her esophagus. "Three weeks?"

"Yes?" he responded as though not seeing anything wrong with that.

My Queen, save me from ignorant fools.

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Freaking protag bumbling his way into ludicrous events.

The City of Ivraitin, Oxia Palus. Not that it's very different from the rest of Mars.

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Yup. And this is why Mars is worst planet.

He grimaced sympathetically.

…Wait, why am I even telling him this?

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Because despite the fact you're basically the personal Assassin of a Queen of a multi-species extra-planetary polity, you're actually much healthier and better adjusted than Taylor was?

Interceptors don't go very fast though.

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Gods I hate the interceptors so much, they're so slow I can't stand them. I mean, they suit the Cabal perfectly, I just hate them.

Huh, I thought there was other things there as well, probably from the fallen?

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Not on Mars, no. Cabal and Vex.

This. Zachary is effectively the player character in Destiny. The protagonist. And in-universe, well, the player character is ridiculous. Like, prophesied savior, almost all major events unfolding around them and defeating enemies who killed literally thousands of other Guardians before them ridiculous. Protagonist power is at its maximum (and which I'm toning down in here no matter what because it really is ridiculous).

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Yeah, toning down is good. Works better to have him as definitely talented, but mostly implausibly lucky person who keeps on stumbling into events way out of scale.

I wanted to try telling this story primarily through outside sources and maintain some degree of mystery (which I seem to have already failed at, but I really wanted to do the QA chapter, and then this one logically followed and... ugh. yeah.). The problem is that he's the only notable person who's really been around her in-story, so I don't have any other perspectives to use yet.

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eris Eris ERIS ERIS E R I S

"One of the Titans—" "Zachary—" the other two started at the same time, then looked at each other, Zavala motioning with his hand for Ikora to speak. She took a breath, then restarted.

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Weird thing to comment on, but I just have to say seeing people talk over each other and then stop awkwardly is something I've almost never seen in fiction. So kudos.

"Well, I heard that people saw a Ghost around her," Cayde said. "So either she's just randomly carrying a Ghost around or…"

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Well, entirely possible that a Ghost yet to find their Guardian would have been following her around scamming a ride off her. That sort of thing has to happen.

The… serious, imposing Titan," he gestured at Zavala,

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Zavala basically full on Paladin.

"the secretive, intelligent Warlock," his other hand went up towards Ikora

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Yeah, I love Ikora but she'd defs trip those paranoia switches.

"or the roguish, easy-going, nonthreatening Hunter?" he finished, indicating towards himself.

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Weaver:...Oh Light, Clockblocker is back from the dead and now he's a robot.

Ikora and Zavala just looked at each other, commiserating in silence over their third teammate.

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Every person who has ever met Cayde feels your pain.