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Paradoxical [Destiny/Worm Post-GM]

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Oh, it's even worse. If the timeline here is the same as in game, Weaver just killed the Black Heart. That means that Mara Sov is still sitting in her nascent divinity phase. None of the previously described stuff has happened yet, and QA already doesn't know what to make of her.

In case it wasn't evident yet, strongly paracausal beings are complete and utter bullshit.
 
Myrtenaster said:
In case it wasn't evident yet, strongly paracausal beings are complete and utter bullshit.
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Especially to the Shards, which are strictly causal. I remember seeing someone sum up the difference between Paracausal (oryx) and Acausal (the vex). If they were playing a game of basketball, the vex would go back in time to run up the score before the game started. Oryx, on the other hand, would kill and eat the concept of basketball.
 
PatrickDiomedes said:
Especially to the Shards, which are strictly causal
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And here it comes into play that QA managed to reconnect to Taylor who is very much paracausaul because she is Risen. Basically this is where the fun begins, because imagine QA,who is still stuck in Kephri mode btw, managing to start utilizing Space Magic through her connection with Taylor.
 
The Shard are some of the most powerful entity in fictions (usually around planet busters), and they are purely scientific (obeying the laws of physics if they can't manipulate them), gaining access to "magic" and other paracausal shit would be a serious upgrade.
 
néocorvinus said:
The Shard are some of the most powerful entity in fictions (usually around planet busters), and they are purely scientific (obeying the laws of physics if they can't manipulate them), gaining access to "magic" and other paracausal shit would be a serious upgrade.
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Paracausal material is inherently incomprehensible to causal stuff. If the Vex, who have literally all of time to figure it out(and can perfectly simulate reality) can't, I can't imagine a shard doing it.

The Vex have already tried planet-sized computers without success. That's what Mercury is.
 
I want to say that I disagree a bit with Taylor in this chapter. She's forgetting that a person cannot truly be free without a good helping of liberty.
 
Wobulator said:
Paracausal material is inherently incomprehensible to causal stuff. If the Vex, who have literally all of time to figure it out(and can perfectly simulate reality) can't, I can't imagine a shard doing it.

The Vex have already tried planet-sized computers without success. That's what Mercury is.
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That is correct but QA has one very major advantage, she is connected to Taylor and its pretty clear during the end of Worm that the distinction between the two was almost completely gone. And i for one would accept that QA gets some access to the Light through her connection to Taylor.
 
C4d said:
That is correct but QA has one very major advantage, she is connected to Taylor and its pretty clear during the end of Worm that the distinction between the two was almost completely gone. And i for one would accept that QA gets some access to the Light through her connection to Taylor.
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I'm dubious, but you're right that it's close enough for ensou to go either way.
 
James D. Fawkes said:
Then, I come back, and stuff like this, that reminds me of how rich and fantastical the world of Destiny is, remind me also of why I love the game.
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I know how you feel. I haven't touched destiny ever since Forsaken- I love the lore of the series but the game itself? Yeah I just feel done with it all.

Really makes me wish that someone at bungie would sack up and make a freaking Novel set in Destiny. I mean for fucks sake plenty of people made books in Halo, I've even read one of them and they're awesome. Why can't Destiny have some of that shit?
 
Shadedancer said:
Damn. No wonder Weaver's QA isn't quite sure what the deal is with Mara. She's essentially a fleshy projection powered by the corpse of a Dark god Slaugtered by the Light, hijacked by her soul. And she's done all this prior to QA "seeing" her if I understand the timelines correctly.
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I would like to clarify that this has not happened yet, with this being the whole business with Oryx and his Throne World. At this point, we simply have lower divinity Mara, but she still has a Throne World, she is still paracausal. QA can't touch this, even before we killed Oryx and she took his stuff.
 
Wobulator said:
Paracausal material is inherently incomprehensible to causal stuff. If the Vex, who have literally all of time to figure it out(and can perfectly simulate reality) can't, I can't imagine a shard doing it.

The Vex have already tried planet-sized computers without success. That's what Mercury is.
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Notably the Vex can crudely manipulate and interact with paracausal forces (See: the Vex Mind that drained Saint-14's Light and Quria's flailing attempts to utilize Sword Logic before she was Taken), they just can't simulate because it's inherently impossible to simulate. Though the Vex have also been hinted to have some connection to the Traveler so who knows.
 
Wobulator said:
It's directly stated.(source)

*sigh*
Whisper will do 30% more total damage(so all shots fired) than DARCI.
DARCI only overtakes Whisper if you pair it with Mountaintop or Threat Level, both with boss spec. You need to break 8921 DPS(on Greg) for DARCI + special to win out over Whisper.
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30% more total damage with a 3s set-up time after each descope and a much slower ROF. If you're at a range that can use Mountaintop or Threat Level you're likely better off using something else anyway (Aggressive Frame GL w/ Spike + Mountaintop). Never mind that Mountaintop is stupidly high DPS.
 
Just had a thought, a quandary that I'm unsure if it was brought up in the midst of lore discussion. Is there any viability to Weaver's killing of Scion as Significant in this dimension under the various Laws or nah? Or could it now matter with Weaver's connection to QA being returned?
 
Ardion Prosili said:
Just had a thought, a quandary that I'm unsure if it was brought up in the midst of lore discussion. Is there any viability to Weaver's killing of Scion as Significant in this dimension under the various Laws or nah? Or could it now matter with Weaver's connection to QA being returned?
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I think no. I think for it to matter under Sword Logic, one would need to know what they're doing As they're doing it. They can't retroactively say "I killed a god, pay me universe!"

I could be wrong though.
 
ArchangelCeaser said:
I think no. I think for it to matter under Sword Logic, one would need to know what they're doing As they're doing it. They can't retroactively say "I killed a god, pay me universe!"

I could be wrong though.
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This also assumes Taylor's kill of Scion counts as her kill under Sword Logic's rule set. Contessa's killing of Eden is fairly clear cut, since Contessa shanked a whale, but Taylor killed Scion by proxy, which seems to have different rules. We know that you can claim a geographical location and have Sword Logic accept all kills made in that region as belonging to you (Mara with the Reef as a whole, and Savathun with the Dreaming City specifically), or you can use a totemic fetish as a conduit that sucks up spilt soul juice near it and have it transfer the power back to you (Hive worms, the Mindbender when Cayade died, Whisper of the Worm, Thorn, and arguably Guardians themselves do this for the Traveler). Seeing as Taylor didn't personally kill Scion with a melee weapon, somehow claim the area where Scion died, or make some sort of totem, I don't think she gets kill credit.
 
UltimateGrr said:
This also assumes Taylor's kill of Scion counts as her kill under Sword Logic's rule set. Contessa's killing of Eden is fairly clear cut, since Contessa shanked a whale, but Taylor killed Scion by proxy, which seems to have different rules. We know that you can claim a geographical location and have Sword Logic accept all kills made in that region as belonging to you (Mara with the Reef as a whole, and Savathun with the Dreaming City specifically), or you can use a totemic fetish as a conduit that sucks up spilt soul juice near it and have it transfer the power back to you (Hive worms, the Mindbender when Cayade died, Whisper of the Worm, Thorn, and arguably Guardians themselves do this for the Traveler). Seeing as Taylor didn't personally kill Scion with a melee weapon, somehow claim the area where Scion died, or make some sort of totem, I don't think she gets kill credit.
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Taylor's win was probably more Bomb Logic than it was Sword Logic. Her co-opting everyone as Khepri might be Sword Logic ("I myself am mightier than you, I will use your power"), but Scion being defeated by multiple powers in unison to produce a stronger result ("Combined we can defeat you.") I guess it depends on whether Khepri's control of everyone counts as her killing Scion.
 
Is there a Sword Logic case for victory, only to get killed by an aftereffect of your now-dead opponent's attacks?
 
UltimateGrr said:
This also assumes Taylor's kill of Scion counts as her kill under Sword Logic's rule set. Contessa's killing of Eden is fairly clear cut, since Contessa shanked a whale, but Taylor killed Scion by proxy, which seems to have different rules. We know that you can claim a geographical location and have Sword Logic accept all kills made in that region as belonging to you (Mara with the Reef as a whole, and Savathun with the Dreaming City specifically), or you can use a totemic fetish as a conduit that sucks up spilt soul juice near it and have it transfer the power back to you (Hive worms, the Mindbender when Cayade died, Whisper of the Worm, Thorn, and arguably Guardians themselves do this for the Traveler). Seeing as Taylor didn't personally kill Scion with a melee weapon, somehow claim the area where Scion died, or make some sort of totem, I don't think she gets kill credit.
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Could QA have counted as a totem? Long reach I'm sure but am just covering bases in my inquiry of wanting to know what the heckie is going on.

QuietlyObserving said:
Taylor's win was probably more Bomb Logic than it was Sword Logic. Her co-opting everyone as Khepri might be Sword Logic ("I myself am mightier than you, I will use your power"), but Scion being defeated by multiple powers in unison to produce a stronger result ("Combined we can defeat you.") I guess it depends on whether Khepri's control of everyone counts as her killing Scion.
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duly noted. thank you.
 
Aklyon said:
Is there a Sword Logic case for victory, only to get killed by an aftereffect of your now-dead opponent's attacks?
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Sword Logic is a path to power, by claiming the strength of your vanquished foes via right of conquest. The end result is literal godhood by way of genocide. A sufficiently skilled practitioner can literally undo their own death should they have enough power. Hive Gods like Oryx do not die when they are killed, and Oryx's son committed suicide because being dead made it easier to call home to dad.
Ardion Prosili said:
Could QA have counted as a totem? Long reach I'm sure but am just covering bases in my inquiry of wanting to know what the heckie is going on.
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If the Entities knew enough about Sword Logic for QA to know how to make itself in to a totem, Worm would never have happened. The Entities would have flown in, blown up all the Earths, and used the harvested souls to bend Physics over the counter and sodomize it in to submission.
 
It boils down to this: Weaver has no presence in the Ascendant Realm, and has no means of establishing one at all. She has no inherent connection to the Deep (like Mara Sov), and more importantly she's not of the Hive and has no worm. The Sword Logic is religious in nature, but it's entirely enabled by the individual parasitic worms each member of the Hive hosts. The worms are responsible for empowering them, but also for tithing a majority of the harvested strength up the hierarchy.

At the end of the day, Weaver has no worm. She can wish upon a Sword Logic star until the end of time and it wouldn't matter. Same with Contessa and Scion.
 
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