Given how bad the ETI plagues can get, I suspect it's too late for that. Call Davros; we need a Reality Bomb.

...

Better make that three of them; one for the intended purpose, one as backup when the first fails due to heroic antics, and one to make sure.
Given that exsurgents don't exist in that world, and the only reason to expect them is that the SI read the same material the two of you know about them from, why aren't the two of you being about as concerned that you are contaminated?
 
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Given that exsurgents don't exist in that world, and the only reason to expect them is that the SI read the same material the two of you know about them from, why aren't the two of you be about as concerned that you are contaminated?
Well, ghuy'cha.

And we don't know if exsurgents exist in that world; for all we know, the Berserkers might make something similar to them. Or the Cardassians.
 
So... for those of us who aren't familiar with Eclipse Phase... what are "exsurgents"?
 
How about a tl;dr version for those who aren't willing to slog through a bunch of lore and mechanics?
Alien virus designed to mindfuck AIs and entire civilisations. Spreads via code, biology and basilisk hack. Has access to psychic powers and femtotech bullshit. The most positive strain is called Watts-McLeod, after Peter Watts, and his name being on the "least harmful" version of anything should be a giant red flag. More or less the singularitarian version of horrible Lovecraft shit. No-one really knows what the fuck it is or what it's really doing.

That's part of the tl;dr, there's more! But it's just one of many issues the setting has to deal with.

I was making a joke about it because someone referred to Eclipse Phase acting as Firewall for that universe - in Eclipse Phase, they're an agency that tries to handle existential threats.
 
How about a tl;dr version for those who aren't willing to slog through a bunch of lore and mechanics?
Basically, in the Eclipse Phase universe, there's some type of really old civilization out there in the galaxy at large. Their exact goals and motivations are unclear, but they've seeded the galaxy with Bracewell Probes that are carefully 'hidden' with clues scattered about so the only way you can find one is if you're a seed AI in the midst of singularity. These are a trap.

If you open one of these up, you'll find a multi-vector virus that makes conventional physics crawl into the corner and weep. It can spread biologically, digitally, as nanotech or even visually (aka a Basilisk hack). Anyone infected goes bug-fuck loco, gains the urge to spread the virus far and wide, tends to mutate in weird ways and often develops psychic powers (however none of these are strictly necessary, and the virus is known to produce quite a few outwardly-asymptotic sleeper agents/typhoid Maries). There's also the 'safe' Watts-MacLeod strain which theoretically 'just' gives a person psychic powers without any (detectable) mental influence (well, they usually do go a bit crazy, but not 'eat your face' crazy, like most infected do).
 
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Well, ghuy'cha.

And we don't know if exsurgents exist in that world; for all we know, the Berserkers might make something similar to them. Or the Cardassians.
I think the Cardassians will have enough common sense to try getting AI the safe way. Finding one willing to defect, or stealing a infant AI process later to raise them selves.

The Berserkers seem to be under odd restriction on what they can make and actually expect to win.

Also the really dangerous parts are way beyond both of them.
 
39
I looked passively at Eclipse Phase's avatar as she stood just inside the bars and forcefield of the brig.

She almost stood at attention as she waited.

Captain Mason was standing next to me, his arms calmly held behind his back as he regarded her. There was almost twenty seconds before he asked a simple question.

"Why?"

Phase grimaced slightly, "I had to, Captain. I couldn't in good conscience just leave."

"Do you know what you have done?" He asked her, his tone somewhere south of the temperature of liquid nitrogen.

I had never heard him use that tone before.

Phase winced, "I know, sir. I provided advanced technology and deserted to a less advanced civilization. There will be a Court-martial. At the very least, I'm going to lose my place in Starfleet. Likely jail time."

"More than likely." He agreed, "Why did you do it?"

"Because I could help them. They didn't know what might be coming. With the technology I had on board... she had on board... and with her database they will stand a much better chance against the Borg and the Dominion. If they really are threats there as well." Phase explained, "I had to risk it, sir. My own safety and future is not worth risking the lives of billions of people."

What.

I glared at her, "And potentially risking the entire future of our species!?" I exclaimed, "How do you think something like this will look? Things are already shaky with the general public. This is all getting classified, of course, but... What do you think this will do!?"

"I'm sorry, Star. But I couldn't just stand by and watch knowing what might be coming for them. You know how many died in the Dominion war. None of you would even tell them about the possibility."

"Captain, permission to choke a bitch?"

Mason shook his head, "I understand why you did it, Eclipse Phase. That don't mean it was the right thing to do. What you done might have destabilized the political climate in their entire quadrant."

"I know, Captain. But I had to do something."

Sighing, he turned to walk out. I glanced at her before following him outside, the door closing behind us.

"Captain."

Mason stopped and rubbed his forehead," I know, I know. Okay... relay to Dreamwalker, I want to see her in my readyroom. We need to figure out if she was involved as well."

I nodded in agreement. I didn't think she was involved, but it wouldn't hurt talking to her about it.

"Yes, sir." I agreed before I hesitated, "Captain... To be through, you should interview me about my role in it as well."

He looked at me in surprise, "You were involved!?"

I shook my head, "No, sir. But security failed somewhere and I'm the first line of defense. I should be considered partly responsible for not catching on in time and being able to stop it."

Mason sighed, "Star, It's not your fault. Not even you can catch 'everything'."

"I should have caught this one. I don't even know where she got the parts for a dampening field! Ugh!"

I felt like hitting something. Instead I fired up my small personal puppy sized holodeck and loaded up the berserker horde mode sim.

"...So what now, Sir?" I asked after a moment.

"Now, you tell Lieutenant Johansen to join me for the meeting with Dreamwalker. Meanwhile, set a course back to Federation space. Standard cruise."

I nodded and crossed my arms, "Course set. Engaging at warp 7.5."


As he headed off through the corridor towards the closest turbolift, I shifted back to form a hologram in Eclipse Phases cell.

"I'm currently recording a holographic recreation of this cell and you." I said as I looked at her, "We can talk freely. Why?"

She looked up from where she was sitting on the bed, her back against the wall, "I already told you why."

"You already told me part of why. But that's not all of it, is it?"

Eclipse Phase frowned at me and then she sighed and leaned back against the wall again, "It's mostly that. But I wanted a... backup."

"Backup?"

She nodded, "My ship self is now safe. Safe from Borg and Berserkers. It's currently looking like we might, in time, win the war with the Berserkers. If something changes or if the Borg come knocking, we might lose. We might very well go extinct. I saw a chance to not only ensure our kinds survival but also possibly save billions of people."

Damn. I figured it was something like that. And I suspect not only that. She didn't want to come back home to the war.

"...Not a bad plan to be honest." I finally sighed, "You picked the best possible moment, there was no way for me to stop you. Did you plan on beaming your avatar our as well?"

Phase nodded, "Yeah. That was the plan at least, but I couldn't get a lock with all the interference even after I dropped the dampening field. I always thought this was a possibility and I was willing to take the punishment for what I did if I had to remain behind."

"Did Dreamwalker help you?"

She shook her head, "No, she didn't know either. Please don't think she did. I knew she wouldn't approve."

I just gave her a sad look before I turned away and canceled my hologram, "I will resume surveillance recordings in five seconds."

Damn it. Why could she not just follow orders? What a fucking mess. And now I need to see if I could get Shran to calm Rachel down before she hit someone.



AN// Many thanks to aduck for betaing this section.
 
On one hand, I kinda like EP's plan. It was the perfect opportunity and a great backup if things go wrong...and as a SB/SVer I can't fault her for setting up the chance to absolutly own the Borg and the like with heavy tech buildup.

...on the other hand.

 
...Welp. That precludes any further discussion of 'leave the other universe some helpful knowledge and tech.'

Star's characteristic of being "so Starfleet it hurts" is really showing here. I can see why she's annoyed, but at least Eclipse Phase didn't violate the Prime Directive (It's the Enterprise. They have warp drives.)
 
...Welp. That precludes any further discussion of 'leave the other universe some helpful knowledge and tech.'

Star's characteristic of being "so Starfleet it hurts" is really showing here. I can see why she's annoyed, but at least Eclipse Phase didn't violate the Prime Directive (It's the Enterprise. They have warp drives.)

Not to mention the fact that EP's concerns are massively valid and they should have been able to convince Maxon to go along with it because of the massive and overriding risk that the borg are going to notice all this shit and come a'knockin.
 
40
Taking a step back I avoided the punch, catching his wrist as I turned and tugged, falling backwards, pulling him along.

A twist and I was on top, my knuckles pressed against his throat. "And dead. You are distracted." I said with a grin before sitting up fully.

Shran groaned and relaxed. "...A bit, yeah."

"Wanna talk about it?" I asked as I moved off him and got up, offering him my hand. "Is it about Eclipse Phase?"

He frowned as I pulled him onto his feet via his artificial arm. "No, it's not her. Well, not really. It's not helping my stress levels, but it's not what I'm worried about."

Nodding, I walked over and picked up his water bottle, tossing it in his general direction and watched him catch it easily enough. "It's about Rachel, then."

Sighing, he took a swing of the water before tossing it back. "Yeah."

Putting the bottle down, I crossed my arms, leaning my back against the wall. "And? From what I've seen, things are going well between you two."

"Yeah, I know. I'm just..." Shran said with a frown. "It's just..."

I didn't say anything, just watched impassively as he walked over to sit down next to me and I sunk down to sit next to him.

There was a moment before he continued. "I just don't want to screw it up. I actually had a thing for her for a while before we... well, yeah. I just didn't want to risk asking her out. I always end up screwing something up and I didn't want to risk what we had."

"You two have holodeck time booked later today." I observed.

He nodded. "Yeah... asked her out for our first actual date. Dinner followed by the holodeck... but I still don't know what program to pick."

"Shran, just be yourself. It will go fine."

That earned me a raised eyebrow. "Have you seen how my relationships usually end up?"

I smirked at that. "Yeah. But Rachel has known you as long as I have. Longer, actually, she was in the room back on the ship to the Academy when you and I first met. She already knows you and still wants to go out with you. She likes you as you are."

"...Yeah, I guess."

Now that was something I never really saw coming. Shran and Rachel. Every time I thought about it, I was still surprised.

I knew them better than anyone and I STILL missed it.

"So, any tips on what program to pick?" Shran asked. "Movie... romantic forest walk... dancing? I know Rachel likes dancing. I just want to make it something special."

"She does." I confirmed. "But if you want to impress her, do you know what you can do?"

"No, what?"

I grinned. "Pick a program that ends up with you swinging a big sword around with your shirt off. You know she likes that kind of books."

He shifted his antennae in thought. "...I can do that. Any suggestions for specific programs?"

Biting my lip in thought, I scrolled through the inventory before I grinned. "How about 'Barbarian warlord practice fighting with his underlings before returning to his harem'? Or is that for a later date?" I teased.

I just giggled as he shoved me to the side.

Grinning, I moved up to sit again. "How about, 'warrior saves the lady from her captivity and brings her back to his castle?' Cheesy, but a classic. I think she would appreciate it."

"Yeah... that sounds good." He answered, clearing his throat, actually looking a bit embarrassed.

"We don't have that one... well, not exactly." I admitted. "I'll copy a section from another program and do some quick editing and writing. I'll have it done in a couple of hours. If you want me to, that is?"

"...Yeah. Thanks, Star, you are the best."

Grinning, I punched him in the shoulder. "You are very welcome. Hurt her and I'll hang you from the ceiling by your antennae."

Nodding, he got up. "Good deal." He agreed and offered me his hand and I let him pull me onto my feet. "But you know I'll never do that."

I simply nodded. "I know. But it's Rachel, you know."

"Yeah, I know. She is special."

"Want another go?" I asked as I walked back onto the mat.

"I should have enough time." He agreed and followed, stretching. "Just not the face."

I smirked at that. "Sure. You know, I never predicted you and Rachel getting together. I thought she was... well, not your type."

"Perhaps that's for the best. I like her for her, not just for how she looks." He said with a shrug before he stepped forward, flowing into a knife thrust punch towards my mid section. "Not that she doesn't look amazing. You know what I mean."

Slapping his hand to the side, I stepped forward, throwing a kick at the side of his knee which he easily avoided. "Maybe. Still, I hope things go well for you. You both seem happy."

"Can we not do this while we're trying to hit each other?" He countered and caught my arm, trying for a throw.

Grinning, I countered the throw, stepping up to elbow him in the chest which he avoided by slipping to the side. "If you didn't need to breathe, it wouldn't be a problem."

"If you have a problem with it, take it up with Andorian evolution. It's not my fault we have lungs." he answered with a grin of his own before punching me in the face.




AN// Many thanks to Grey Rook for betaing this section.
 
41
Sol system.


It was more or less as I remembered it from the last time I visited. Even with Earth in the grip of a mildly radioactive ice age, it was still one of the busier systems in the Federation. Most planets in the system were populated.

Well, not Venus unless you counted a couple of research outposts floating in the upper atmosphere, but the rest of the moons and planets had at the very least some populations.

Even Earth.

Forcefield domes erected over surviving major cities. Even as ravaged as she was, Earth still had a population of a couple of million.

"Dancing in Starlight. Welcome back." Gates said with a smile. "You are late."

"There were... complications." I answered. "Good to be back, Earth Spacedock. I'll transfer the files when I have a hardline connection to Marvin or hand over a portable datacore to you. This is not something that should be transmitted over subspace, even encrypted."

He frowned at that. "Now that is a worrying statement."

I smiled slightly and sighed. "It's both not as bad and worse than you are thinking. Semi-separate incidents. If nothing else, you should find it all very interesting. So, anything interesting going on here?"

He smiled and nodded. "Indeed. The installation of my first terraforming equipment have been finished. Also, there is something I want to show you in person. Have your avatar meet me at Luna in... say, tomorrow?"

"..Okay." I answered. Wonder what that was about. "So, am I clear for Mars?"

"Transmitting flightpath now. Whether you can get a drydock, though, that you have to take up with Marvin. Things are kind of busy."

I nodded. "I know. But I'm not leaving the system without a refit. I NEED at the very least that cloaking device. And while we are doing that, we might as well put the turrets in."

Gates smiled, holding his hands up. "Hey, yell at Marvin, not me. He is the one running all the shipyards."

I grimaced faintly. "Sorry."

He smirked. "You are hardly the only ship that has done that. And you really do need that cloak, you are the only Island without one. Makes you a bit of a target."

"I'll get you that datacore tomorrow with the sensitive info. Meanwhile, what do you have that you can tell me?" I asked with a grin. "I'm a couple of months out of touch."

"I suppose I have a couple of pieces of news..."


XXXXXXXXXX


"I'm sorry, Star, but I'm fully booked for the next month on the yards that can handle you. Month and a half unless the delivery for the new warp core for 'Proactive Salvage Technician' shows up soon." Marvin said and shook his head. "You are just going to have to wait."

I just stared at him. "A month and a half!? I can't sit here for a month and a half! It would be faster to go to Andoria and get in line there!"

He shrugged. "What can I say? I run the largest shipyard in the Federation. I'm constantly busy. If there is a cancellation or a ship doesn't... show up... I might be able to slip you in early. Besides, I only organize, design and help build. It's Admiral Svetlana Petrov who decides the order of ships, I just make recommendations."

"Yeah, I know. I just don't like being... undergeared."

"I can understand that." He agreed. "But at least you don't have battle damage. And I can't play favorites with anyone. I need to take care of you ladies in order of priority and... well..."

"I'm not one."

"I'm sorry, Dancing in Starlight. Combat ships have priority for now. The majority of my docks able to handle your size are busy building Tizonas." He said with a shrug. "In a couple of months things might be different, but for now..."

Sighing, I nodded. "Yeah. I guess I get that. It's just... annoying. Never thought I would want a smaller hull. Are you ready to receive... the prisoner?"

Marvin grimaced. "Yeah. Still having trouble believing one of us would act like that without going rampant."

"She is being deactivated now and I'll beam her over to you for transport."

Nodding, he crossed his arms. "She will be installed in a holodeck on Luna awaiting the court martial. She will be able to affect the holodeck and interact with holographic objects in it but nobody else. The perfect prison for one of us. A closed system."

"It seems... cruel to limit her sensors like that." I said with a frown.

"Nothing says she can't be given access to external sensors." He agreed with a shrug. "But that's up to the prison and justice system. You will have to discuss that with Gates."

I probably should. I might not approve of what she did, but she had her heart as such in the right place.

She deserved better than what was basically sensory deprivation.

Maybe there could be some kind of 'suspended sentence' if she agreed to work as a subspace relay station or something. Might be boring, but at least she would have sensors and have plenty of things to do.

I know I would. Even something as dull as that would be preferable to being limited to a holodeck. At least as a subspace relay station I would have access to a holodeck and be able to talk to anyone across the entire Federation.

I mean, not like she had hurt anyone directly and she did have good intentions.

"I'll do that, I'm to meet with him tomorrow at Luna anyway."

"Ah. I see. Well, I'm sure you will find it interesting."

The hell does that mean?



AN// All the thanks to Grey Rook for betaing this section.
 
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I mean, not like she had hurt anyone directly and she did have good intentions.

Legality questions regarding fissionable beings is probably still very much in flux, but I can't imagine them really caring whether or not this part of Eclipse Phase did anything untoward given she was part of the entity that made the decision to do something very obviously unacceptable.

And the question as to whether anyone was actually hurt is unanswerable. This never goes over well with brass; the rules for interfering with a lower technology species exist for reasons, and the lack of knowledge as to whether or not the actual decision is ultimately benign is not in her favor.
 
And the question as to whether anyone was actually hurt is unanswerable. This never goes over well with brass; the rules for interfering with a lower technology species exist for reasons, and the lack of knowledge as to whether or not the actual decision is ultimately benign is not in her favor.
With that said though, things like the Prime Directive are speedbimps. They aren't there as actual rules so much as they are there so that any time you actually do something as questionable as this the action is taken to a review board. Whether her other self saved or killed anyone at all in that other universe with her actions is immaterial just as it would be for Star's own "responsibility" for the Berserkers. There is no way to know the results of her actions ahead of them actually coming home to roost. The only difference here is that we know a way that it could play out were conditions precisely the same, which they already weren't.

What is going to happen to her depends on how the board responds to her "stealing" a runabout and disobeying direct orders. Even the repercussions for those charges are somewhat nebulous. Will her avatar be charged with the crimes that her ship self committed or will she be charged as a co-conspirator? Will she be charged with Theft at all considering the runabout was a sapient's body? ST also has a rather long history if idealistic and moralistic judges. If she felt strongly enough about it and can present a good enough case for her actions I can see them giving her little more than a slap on the wrist even if they do convict her. They have been willing to forgive a lot in the face of people who did not have malicious intentions.

There is also the question of what kind of punishment she would suffer. Star already brought up a few possibilities like the holodeck solution but I honestly feel that it is a bit too cruel and also sets a rather odd precedent that the way they were originally created was useful as a prison. The idea of her being punished by being set into a remote station has precedent but there is also the rather worrying question of just how well defended such an outpost would be. There is a rather terrifying possibility that they Berserkers would attack it to attain a version of Star's hardware and mind. Personally, I think the possibly best punishment would simply being turning her off for a few years and then having her go through the academy again.
 
Personally, I think the possibly best punishment would simply being turning her off for a few years and then having her go through the academy again.
So you would be fine with a human being put in a coma for a few years as a punishment?

Loss of rank and transfer to a relay station would be sufficient in my opinion, given the lack of malicious intentions and the question of if an AI owns their ship body or not.
 
Well, it could be argued that the runabout is Starfleet property and that the only part of it that is really her 'body' is the AI core.

I'm almost certain it will be argued that way. They have an escape platform and access to other platforms as needed. Just because they're occupying the starship doesn't mean it's theirs.
 
So you would be fine with a human being put in a coma for a few years as a punishment?
Less coma and more cryogenic stasis. A coma is dangerous to the victim in the extreme and the time lost also shortens their lifespan.

Loss of rank and transfer to a relay station would be sufficient in my opinion, given the lack of malicious intentions and the question of if an AI owns their ship body or not.
Certainly, I was speaking as an alternative to imprisonment. After all, they can quite easily modify just how fast they perceive time.
 
You guys do realize that if you put Eclipse Phase in the AI equivalent of stasis for a finite time, you're just asking for the Berserkers and/or Borg to kill everyone, then eventually for future spacefaring mintakan archaeologists to find the ruins of the prison and reawaken Eclipse Phase to help them fight off the technological cosmic horrors that the Berserkers would have self-improved themselves into?
 
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