Memoirs of a Human Flashlight [Exalted/Worm]

[Delusionist]

I'm going to make a request. If you are going to do this, please give me quotes and books and page numbers. As in, you just cited a canon reason and didn't actually, you know. spit out the canon reason. I am at work. I cannot look things up on the fly. It's not ideal for story writing but it's what I have.

So, if I am to explain or account for things, I will probably need reminders. At the very least I want to acknowledge something before I handwave it away.

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Gods do not automatically form due to existence of Essence. That would be Raksha. Gods form in Creation because the Primordials programmed it that way. Gods do not form in any other realm of existence, because no other realm of existence is programmed to do so.

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"When the Primordials built Creation, they formed the gods out of will and Essence, then gave each god a name and a purpose—a sphere of influence and a position in a hierarchy that would govern Creation." -Core Rulebook pg292

Someone already came up with a workable handwave, in that Creation's rules are bleeding into Earth Bet.

 

[Alratan]

Honestly, the reason why only Creation generates "Gods" is because that's the only location that facilitates their creation.

The Underworld is suffused with necrotic Essence, which isn't healthy for Gods--so they don't form there. Malfeas has it that "Everything is part of the Yozi", and they already have their own response to needing more stuff to do (Generating Demons). The Wyld is too unstable and too chaotic to generate individuals that aren't Raksha.

Here? While there's enough of a pinhole for people to get Creation-style souls and some basic essence, the atmosphere isn't nearly energized enough to support a God--unless something happens to widely increase that pinhole, there just isn't enough Essence to generate self-aware immaterial beings yet.

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Vitriol isn't part of the Yozi, and there's actually quite a lot of stuff in Autocthon that isn't part of his world body, like the deposits of magical material and clay the Alchemicals are made of, and all the tools and stuff that humans there make and eat.

 

[Kelenas]

So wait. If small gods are going to come into existence... What does this mean for technology? I mean, they aren't actually required for the world to turn and fire to burn and all that, so their jobs could be particularly cushy by Creation standards but could we run into a 40K style fanon machine spirits type problem? Machines that actively refuse to work for people who don't take good care of them? Ones that actually work better than they should because they have been well cared for over a number of years?

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Actually, the ones responsible for most of the natural laws and the like are the Pattern Spiders managing the Loom. The gods usually only have to keep track of their domain, regularly send back reports to Yu-Shan, and occasionally receive orders when the situation shifts and they need to pass on instructions to their underlings.

It's... a bit complicated, to say the least.

 

[Alratan]

IIRC the only things that small gods allow is interrogating their memories to perform psychometry. They don't have power over the object they represent.

 

[Golden Lark]

Someone mentioned prayer recycling 'spent' essence. I am countering this. Prayer draws in fresh essence from the pinhole. Spent essence just spreads and chills on Earth Bet. 'Natural respiration' of essence recycles spent motes, and the Dragon lines under Creation's surface probably drag motes along to spots that will convert them and 'recharge' them.

I consider motes to have two properties in vacuum. A flavor, and being spent/unspent. Spent motes are much more likely to be converted to other flavors. The flavors of motes in Creation are limited to Primordial World-poles, vitriol, Void, and Incarnae. As such we've seen Fire, Wind, Water, Earth, Wood, Sun, Moon, Stars, Lighting, Steam, Metal, Oil, Smoke, Crystal, Vitriol, and Abyssal. Assumedly in 3E new exalt flavors will have new mote flavors. 'Vitriol' is a catch-all Yozi flavor that can manifest in Demesnes aspected to a given Yozi as a whole. Abyssal is Void/Oblivion flavored, and it seems that the elemental pole flavors can be 'void tainted' (ash, pyreflame, blood, bone etc.) for extra excitement. Actually, those last ones might wind up being the Liminal castes.

 

[Alectai]

Absolutely nothing, because Gods represent the domains. Gods of technology are going to work exactly like they would before.

 

[Scia]

So wait. If small gods are going to come into existence... What does this mean for technology? I mean, they aren't actually required for the world to turn and fire to burn and all that, so their jobs could be particularly cushy by Creation standards but could we run into a 40K style fanon machine spirits type problem? Machines that actively refuse to work for people who don't take good care of them? Ones that actually work better than they should because they have been well cared for over a number of years?

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Aren`t small gods usuals well to dumb to do that? I am at the moment honestly unsure if they are even self aware enough for it.

 

[Golden Lark]

So wait. If small gods are going to come into existence... What does this mean for technology? I mean, they aren't actually required for the world to turn and fire to burn and all that, so their jobs could be particularly cushy by Creation standards but could we run into a 40K style fanon machine spirits type problem? Machines that actively refuse to work for people who don't take good care of them? Ones that actually work better than they should because they have been well cared for over a number of years?

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The God of the Standard Model will be born mighty, and confused.

His minions, the gods of Physics, Chemistry, and Biology, among others, will be the enforcers of a divine culture utterly unlike that of Creation.

As a god, you do NOT fuck with the natural order of things. The physical laws exist. They are so hardwired into the minds of Earth Humans that upsetting the balance with essence antics would ruin everything.

The god of Parahumans would be a subordinate, as nothing about Parahumans counters the normal model of physics- they may reach beyond the current understanding, but generally, almost all Parahuman powers can be explained with sufficient parallel dimensional antics. They do not violate conservation of energy; they merely draw matter and energy from other places outside the reach of conventional technology.

The full might of the new Earth Celestial Gods would be leaning down on the Censors to actually do their jobs WRT terrestrial gods on Earth, bribes and corruption be damned. This might have positive side effects for Creation too.

 

[Kelenas]

The God of the Standard Model will be born mighty, and confused.

His minions, the gods of Physics, Chemistry, and Biology, among others, will be the enforcers of a divine culture utterly unlike that of Creation.

As a god, you do NOT fuck with the natural order of things. The physical laws exist. They are so hardwired into the minds of Earth Humans that upsetting the balance with essence antics would ruin everything.

The god of Parahumans would be a subordinate, as nothing about Parahumans counters the normal model of physics- they may reach beyond the current understanding, but generally, almost all Parahuman powers can be explained with sufficient parallel dimensional antics. They do not violate conservation of energy; they merely draw matter and energy from other places outside the reach of conventional technology.

The full might of the new Earth Celestial Gods would be leaning down on the Censors to actually do their jobs WRT terrestrial gods on Earth, bribes and corruption be damned. This might have positive side effects for Creation too.

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The problem is that it's more likely for currently unemployed gods in Yu-Shan to be assigned to positions you describe. Which probably isn't really going to make anyone happy...

 

[Alectai]

Creation is a fuckhuge perpetual energy system, I imagine something as small as a pinhole hasn't even been noticed.

 

[Winged Knight]

Creation is a fuckhuge perpetual energy system, I imagine something as small as a pinhole hasn't even been noticed.

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Someone may have noticed an Exaltation is missing, though. Those are pretty important after all. I'd imagine someone would be wondering where it went. Although I'll freely admit I could be completely wrong about the matter entirely.

 

[Alectai]

Someone may have noticed an Exaltation is missing, though. Those are pretty important after all. I'd imagine someone would be wondering where it went. Although I'll freely admit I could be completely wrong about the matter entirely.

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They don't track them that closely.

 

[Alratan]

An Exaltation could easily get taken out of circulation for a long time by a solar getting CRP and walking out into the Wyld, or Malfeas, or the Underworld. Once they're outside of Fate, no one has any way to track them.

 

[ir_fane]

Lytek does. He just can't always do anything about it.

 

[Arthur Hansen]

Enlightened mortals can hit Essence 3. Hitting Essence 4 needs the intervention of an essence user. Furthermore, it results in the enlightened mortal undergoing either apotheosis or the closest equivalent (ghost for ghost-blooded, demon for demon-blooded, etc.)

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Or a small god as part of the Bureaucracy.

 

[Golden Lark]

The problem is that it's more likely for currently unemployed gods in Yu-Shan to be assigned to positions you describe. Which probably isn't really going to make anyone happy...

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I said born, but that should be swapped for 'assigned.' My bad. Same difference; whoever gets that title inflates to gargantuan proportions instantly; all the other gods would be fighting over positions that used to be cool in the first age that got wiped out on Creation but still exist on Earth. The 'new' concepts will be less sought, and probably more powerful.

 

[Alratan]

The thing is, unless people on earth start worshipping the gods of these new concepts, it's not really going to help them or empower them. The reason that the god of Artificial Flight was screwed wasn't directly because artificial flight stopped, but because people stopped worshipping him as a result. If the surviving population had made being able to fly a totem of what they'd lost and build a great cult around idealising it, he'd have been mostly fine.

 

[Cytokinesis]

The thing is, unless people on earth start worshipping the gods of these new concepts, it's not really going to help them or empower them. The reason that the god of Artificial Flight was screwed wasn't directly because artificial flight stopped, but because people stopped worshipping him as a result. If the surviving population had made being able to fly a totem of what they'd lost and build a great cult around idealising it, he'd have been mostly fine.

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Not true. Cult can only increase a god's Essence by 1, the majority of their power comes from their station. Cult is useful and gods like it, but it's not a necessity.

 

[Kelenas]

Yes and no. Worships only translates into the gods in question getting Essence and Willpower, as well as - if they're in Yu-Shan - Quintessence and Ambrosia. (Or something like that; too lazy to look up the correct terms.)
However, a god's domain directly influences how powerful he is, ie his Essence-stat. The more important a domain, the higher the god's Essence-rating, which then changes accordingly depending on fluctuations on the domain.

 

[ir_fane]

Creation's fate system supposedly tracks every individual speck of dirt and sounds an alarm when something doesn't go as predicted. This is why Yu-Shan dislikes things that are outside fate, they throw off all the predictions when they interact with things that are within fate. Unless Yu-Shan thinks the pinhole is supposed to be there, that entire region is probably tripping all sorts of FATE ERROR messages. They'll eventually send a service technician to assess the situation, and would like to remind you that you are a valued customer.

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Size is actually a factor in the books. There's demons running around all over creation under sorceror control (or not), and several charms from the infernals only trigger a warning if they go over a certain size. The correction of predictions and such is a constant, ongoing process by robot/gods called pattern spiders (see what happens if they stop paying attention to you).

 

[The Sandman]

An Exaltation could easily get taken out of circulation for a long time by a solar getting CRP and walking out into the Wyld, or Malfeas, or the Underworld. Once they're outside of Fate, no one has any way to track them.

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Well, unless they're either a Zenith Caste Solar or any flavor of Lunar, I'd assume. Given that those Exalted are guaranteed to get visitations from their patron Incarna when they Exalt, I'd assume that either Conky or Luna might notice that the Exaltation is a bit farther away than usual, in very strange surroundings.

 

[Alratan]

Not true. Cult can only increase a god's Essence by 1, the majority of their power comes from their station. Cult is useful and gods like it, but it's not a necessity.

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That's true.

Yes and no. Worships only translates into the gods in question getting Essence and Willpower, as well as - if they're in Yu-Shan - Quintessence and Ambrosia. (Or something like that; too lazy to look up the correct terms.)
However, a god's domain directly influences how powerful he is, ie his Essence-stat. The more important a domain, the higher the god's Essence-rating, which then changes accordingly depending on fluctuations on the domain.

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But I believe that's not. A god isn't their domain. They are assigned their domain dependent on their station within the Celestial Bureaucracy . A god's station depends on how well they do at Yu-Shan politics and this is strongly coupled with how much wealth they have to throw around as bribes and similar things. That in turn is dependent on how much worship they get, as that's where Celestial wealth comes from

 

[Kelenas]

But I believe that's not. A god's domain doesn't determine how powerful they inherently are, their station within the Celestial Bureaucracy does. A god's station depends on how well they do at Yu-Shan politics and this is strongly coupled with how much wealth they have to throw around as bribes and similar things. That in turn is dependent on how much worship they get, as that's where Celestial wealth comes from

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Wealth doesn't equal power. Even if everyone stopped worshipping the Unconquered Sun (which is actually almost the case; his worship has dwindled a *LOT* after the Usurpation) he'd still be the most powerful god around.
A god's power is determined by his domain, and how well it is or isn't doing. There is actually an example for this in one of the books about a rivergod, specifically stating that if the river were to suddenly dries up, the god's power would be greatly diminished, but not disappear. By the same token, if the river would be doing exceptionally well, increasing in size and importance, so would the god's power.
Where politics and wealth come into play is in the assignment of domains. For example, let's assume that an uppity Exalt goes and kills the god of a fairly important city. The Celestial Bureaucracy would then have to decide on an appropriate replacement, which is where the politics and wealth (for bribes) come into play, because there are many gods for which such a position would mean an improvement in their station, prestige *AND* personal power (Essence).

Which is why you're not right, but not completely wrong, either. There are many factors and variables involved, and pretty much all of them interlinked. The god of an important domain is more likely to receive a lot of prayer, which in combination with his personal power and the prestige of his station, he can more easily turn into favors or bribes for his fellow gods, thus increasing his influence. The god of a small, unimportant domain on the other hand, is much less likely to receive a lot of prayer, and doesn't have much personal power or influence, so he's unlikely to improve his position anytime soon without some *really* exceptional skill and good luck, since he lacks the necessary leverage.

To put it simply; Divine politics are complex and complicated as fuck.

 

[pheonix89]

Yu-Shan's reaction would include Gold Faction assassins, though.

They're not officially PNG there, but acting openly is a Bad Idea.

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Wrong faction. Gold faction is pro-solar. Bronze is status quo.

And next to nobody is gonna be starting fights for one simple reason. Gods in general are SHIT fighters compared to exalts. Obviously, high-essence war gods and Incarnae not included, although Sol is probably the only god, hell, only non-exalt, non-primordial being period that can consistantly win 1v1 with a combat-spec solaroid of equal essence. Most gods don't have a perfect, period. Pretty much none have a full-blown, applicability-trumping one. Like 15 or 20 tops. Any solaroid that makes it to Yu Shan WILL.

 

[Anasurimbor]

Yu-Shan's reaction would include Gold Faction assassins, though.

They're not officially PNG there, but acting openly is a Bad Idea.

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Of course it would. Someone has to stop the bronze faction assassins from killing all the Solars again.