Mecha Design Quest
- Thread starter 7734
- Start date
If we can do it flat it could simplify the leg transmissions because we could put it deadcenter over the waist and then use the opposite side to power the arm articulation.
Oh, load out idea rocket pod on arm and auto cannon on the other.
Or rocket pods on both arms and machine gun(s) in the "chin"
Strunkriidiisk
THE LEGEND
- Location
- Canada
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I think you are massively overestimating the capability of any "arms." We're still in the "tank/armoured car with legs" style of mechs here; any arms are going to be glorified sponson mounts with extremely limited mobility at best and at worst they're going to be an active detriment because of the extra weight.
Arms frankly are a terrible idea right now for a variety of reasons:
- The more mechanical and electrical parts involved to make them some semblance of useful, the more points of potential failure there are and the more likely it is to break down somehow; also it means you need more types of spare parts to fix it.
- Arms are extra weight, which forces us to compromise in other ways since again, we only have feet rated for twenty tons and that's mass that's not being allocated for critical systems, armour or weaponry.
- Arms are going to take power to operate which means more batteries, bigger engine and/or bigger gas tank, which again means more weight allocated.
- With weapons not mounted more or less in line with the cabin or on a manned turret rig, and without a way to accurately aim otherwise (we don't have live-feed video cameras or anything, and I sincerely doubt the gunner would be able to sight down the barrel) then you basically have no guarantee of being able to hit anything.
Side or top mounted rocket pods should still work then. A box launcher filled with say 70 mm/5 kilogram rockets on one or both sides should be be able to do a fair bit of damage.
Chargone
Invisable operator
- Location
- New Zealand
(edit: sorry about the typos. Mobile does me no favours and there's a lot of them, so I gave up. Might get around to fixing them using my pc later, but best assume I'll never get to it...)
'shoulders' as mounting points for rocket pods or MGs might make sense...
When it comes to firing a weapon with significant recoil that's mounted on a Biped, well...
You have a choice:
you can mount it Under the body, which is slung Bellow the hips, have a really good recoil absorbtion system, and accept a very limited firing arc due to the need to brace the legs against the recoil.
Or you can mount it Above the hip joint and be sharply limuted by the fact that the entire mech isnfighting an attempt to prevent it falling over when you fire the gun. Better arc of fire, but the gun can't be as powerful.
Or you can mount the gun on the "shoulder", with a counter weight (possibly a second gun) on the other shoulder, and you use yhe rotation of the waist to both govern horizontal alignment And absorb recoil. You then use the "shoulder" mount for elevation/depression. You aim it like an artillery piece. Math.
You can further reduce the recoil issue with an "arm": the upper arm is simply a connection from "shoulder" to "elbow" and exists almost Entirely to drop the gun to/below the waist/hip joint. It has the advantage of letting you use the Shoulder for more recoil absorbtion. The "elbow" is then a modified standard recoil absorbtion system and mount for an artillery piece of that size. You can still brace the legs and "stagger" if necessary. The Huge awkwardness of this is reloading, the gun being basically entirely outside the hull. Aiming us still just a matter of looking up tables based on dials indicating the rotational position of the joints and observed gall of the shot, etc. probably with a couple of standardized presets marked on the controlls as well.
Noticeably, this is not actually all that sophisticated, or, more accurately, no particular Part of it is. Getting them all working together might be, as you need the gun to stay in place untill you fire, then pivot fairly freely once the shell has left the barrel. Tricky timing. Probably involving clutches and ratchets and such.
(Edit: You can make it more complicated in some ways and less in others if you govern elivation at the elbow joint and use the shoulder Purely for recoil absorbtion.)
Of course, the entire arm system is completely unsuited, and unnecessary, for machineguns and the like, mind you. Those you want something Far more simple. And smaller.
Really, you don't want them for anything where recoil isn't the limiting factor, or where aim has to be a matter more of reation rather than calculation.
'shoulders' as mounting points for rocket pods or MGs might make sense...
When it comes to firing a weapon with significant recoil that's mounted on a Biped, well...
You have a choice:
you can mount it Under the body, which is slung Bellow the hips, have a really good recoil absorbtion system, and accept a very limited firing arc due to the need to brace the legs against the recoil.
Or you can mount it Above the hip joint and be sharply limuted by the fact that the entire mech isnfighting an attempt to prevent it falling over when you fire the gun. Better arc of fire, but the gun can't be as powerful.
Or you can mount the gun on the "shoulder", with a counter weight (possibly a second gun) on the other shoulder, and you use yhe rotation of the waist to both govern horizontal alignment And absorb recoil. You then use the "shoulder" mount for elevation/depression. You aim it like an artillery piece. Math.
You can further reduce the recoil issue with an "arm": the upper arm is simply a connection from "shoulder" to "elbow" and exists almost Entirely to drop the gun to/below the waist/hip joint. It has the advantage of letting you use the Shoulder for more recoil absorbtion. The "elbow" is then a modified standard recoil absorbtion system and mount for an artillery piece of that size. You can still brace the legs and "stagger" if necessary. The Huge awkwardness of this is reloading, the gun being basically entirely outside the hull. Aiming us still just a matter of looking up tables based on dials indicating the rotational position of the joints and observed gall of the shot, etc. probably with a couple of standardized presets marked on the controlls as well.
Noticeably, this is not actually all that sophisticated, or, more accurately, no particular Part of it is. Getting them all working together might be, as you need the gun to stay in place untill you fire, then pivot fairly freely once the shell has left the barrel. Tricky timing. Probably involving clutches and ratchets and such.
(Edit: You can make it more complicated in some ways and less in others if you govern elivation at the elbow joint and use the shoulder Purely for recoil absorbtion.)
Of course, the entire arm system is completely unsuited, and unnecessary, for machineguns and the like, mind you. Those you want something Far more simple. And smaller.
Really, you don't want them for anything where recoil isn't the limiting factor, or where aim has to be a matter more of reation rather than calculation.
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A List of Mecha of the World (circa 1927)
7734
Trust and verify.
- Location
- Philmont
Great Britain
Designers of heavy, bullish mecha; generally with a focus on shell-firing guns and steady platforms.
African
-15 tons
-1x 57mm gun, 1x Vickers gun
-Crew: Pilot.
Notes: The first 'proper' bipedal mecha, widely regarded as a flop. The 57mm gun packed insufficient explosive fill, and the then-revolutionary loading system was prone to breakdown. Resourceful Tommies would frequently hang off the back, beating the gun into action in exchange for a ride behind the protective armor. It was quickly retired after the Great War.
Bermudan
-35 tons
-1x 57mm gun, 3x Vickers guns.
-Crew: Pilot, Loader, Gunner-Commander
Notes: The first English quadrupedal mecha, this design was the real war-winner, according to the Armored Cavalry. Despite insufficient gun fill, reliable operation of the weapon by an internal crew mitigated this flaw and integral ride-along provisions allowed the mecha to deposit a half-platoon of descant infantry anywhere on the battlefield in relative shelter.
Columbiad
-40 tons
-1x 75mm gun, 6x Vickers guns in three double mounts
-Crew: Pilot, Loader, Radioman, Gunner-Commander
Notes: The finest refinement of the quadrupedal mecha in the world, this platform brings the heaviest mounted firepower to bear, both in general and ton for ton. The addition of a radio ensures these mecha never work unsupported. In addition, they frequently serve to transport platoons of descant infantry atop their backs.
Russia
Designers of fast, rocket-spewing mecha. Resistance to fire is less mandatory than the ability to deliver it.
Perun
-9 tons
-1x Maxim gun, 40x 65mm rockets
-Crew: Pilot
Notes: The first mecha to weaponize salvo rockets, contained in four wing bins. While Imperial Russian doctrine emphasized the press of engagement- to close to as little as 500 meters- before salvoing off each bin sequentially, the Soviet doctrine is instead to fire two bins together with the rest of the platoon in a preperatory salvo, then engage with the remaining bins on an individual basis.
Comrade Sokolov
-18 tons
-1x Maxim gun, 120x 65mm rocket
-Crew: Pilot
Notes: The first Soviet-designed mecha, this shows a clear inheretence of design from the Perun. In this case, however, the vehicle carries twelve bins, with the Maxim moved to the chin in an unusual mechanical turret configuration. While aim is debatable, what is not is the additional endurance the mecha brings over its smaller sibling, especially as Soviet commanders tend to use platoons of them to cover their smaller brethren as they retreat to rearm.
United States
Designers of a superlative number of mecha; many of which are not listed for brevity.
M19 Spider
-35 tons
-1x 37mm gun, 4x M1917 machine guns
-Crew: Pilot, Gunner, Machine Gunner/Loader, Machine Gunner/Loader
Notes: A copy of the French Araignée, this walker substitutes as many French components for American as possible. They number in the hundreds, but frequently are found broken down for repairs due to inferior articulators.
M22 Lightfoot
-20 tons
-1x 37mm gun, 4x M1919 machine guns
-Crew: Pilot
Notes: While nobody's quite sure how the Americans managed to get all these weapons into a single-pilot platform, the fact of the matter is the Lightfoot is the most heavily-armed single-pilot mecha in existance. Dripping sophistication from the secrets of the arm system to the weaponry loadout, this machine is tiny, but incredibly fierce.
M23 Wetfoot
-20 tons
-1x 37mm gun, 2x M1919 machine guns, 2x flare/smoke projectors
-Crew: Pilot
Notes: A waterproofed and ruggedized version of the M22 Lightfoot for the USMC, with two of the machine guns replaced with flare or smoke projectors.
Italy
Designers of artisanal mecha, few of any are alike. Due to extreme differences, only the overarching types will be listed here.
Ca.G120
-12 tons
-4x Mg 08/15 machine guns, Munitions Satchel
-Crew: Pilot, Gunner
Notes: Armed with two fixed machine guns for the pilot and two for the gunner, the Ca.G120 is a light, mountain-trotting terror. Field armorers would frequently replace the original Fiat-Revali machine guns, until after the Great War it was decided to standardize on German Mg08/15 guns. The munitions satchel is noted as Italian engineers would frequently ride-along, using the mecha to transport large quanities of explosives, mines, or even in some cases trench mortars to problematic positions.
Mc.J410
-18 tons
-2x Breda 12.7mm machine guns
-Crew: Pilot, Gunner
Notes: A very conventional gunner-over-pilot arrangement gives the Mc.J410 an almost uninterrupted field of fire, and the high-caliber machine guns allow it to reach out and touch targets at unprecidented distances. Often refered to as the Great Marksman, these mecha are dangerous from places many wouldn't expect a mecha to attempt to engage from.
Japan
A new competitor in mecha, this country has a gift for light, powerful designs.
A28 Shinden
-16 tons
-3x Type 3 machine guns
-Crew: Pilot, Gunner/Mechanic
Notes: A late entry into the mecha arms race, the Shinden doesn't seem much, until the question of endurance comes up. Equiped with piles of ammo and a bounty of fuel, the Shinden can stay operation in the field for days at a time. Frequently, pilots will add additional weapons, including Bangalore torpedoes, grapel launchers, flare projectors, and on one notable instance a flamethrower.
France
A well-regarded mecha designer, this country frequently fights with itself over what constitutes ideal design
M.1917 Araignée
-35 tons
-1x 37mm gun, 4x Hotchkiss Portative machine guns
-Crew: Pilot, Gunner, Machine Gunner/Loader, Machine Gunner/Loader
Notes: The first hexapod mecha, and still one of the best armored mecha available in regimental strength. Recent refits to the M1925 standard make this old spider a far more dangerous threat than many would expect, however, and few underestimate the vehicles resilience twice.
M.1918 Lièvre
-10 tons
-2x Hotchkiss Portative machine guns
-Crew: Pilot, Gunner
Notes: A light reconnaissance mecha, the Lièvre was the first dedicated artillery spotting platform designed and built as a motorized unit. While not incredibly dangerous like her big brother, the French obsession with terrain crossing is visable here as this mech can cross any broken country with ease.
M.1926 Requin
-16 tons
-2x Hotchkiss Portative machine guns
-Crew: Pilot
Notes: A move away from multi-crewed mecha, the Requin looks in large part like the Lièvre, until one discovers the unmanned upper weapons position is actually controlled from the cockpit. While most consider it a curiosity, the future implications of this are quite important, considering the fact discussion has been made on several occasions of slaving heavier weapons to the system.
M.1927 Fourmi
-20 tons
-1x Hotchkiss Light machine gun
-Crew: Pilot, Gunner
Notes: A move back towards the tradition of the Araignée in its hexapod leg configuration, this mecha is actually far more kin to the light Requin and Lièvre designs. Armed primarily with a radio, this heavy scout mecha is impossible to dislodge once planted, and has the terrifying trait of being neigh-impossible to confirm kills on: especially as a 'dead' unit will frequently still be radioing in corrections to a barrage.
Designers of heavy, bullish mecha; generally with a focus on shell-firing guns and steady platforms.
African
-15 tons
-1x 57mm gun, 1x Vickers gun
-Crew: Pilot.
Notes: The first 'proper' bipedal mecha, widely regarded as a flop. The 57mm gun packed insufficient explosive fill, and the then-revolutionary loading system was prone to breakdown. Resourceful Tommies would frequently hang off the back, beating the gun into action in exchange for a ride behind the protective armor. It was quickly retired after the Great War.
Bermudan
-35 tons
-1x 57mm gun, 3x Vickers guns.
-Crew: Pilot, Loader, Gunner-Commander
Notes: The first English quadrupedal mecha, this design was the real war-winner, according to the Armored Cavalry. Despite insufficient gun fill, reliable operation of the weapon by an internal crew mitigated this flaw and integral ride-along provisions allowed the mecha to deposit a half-platoon of descant infantry anywhere on the battlefield in relative shelter.
Columbiad
-40 tons
-1x 75mm gun, 6x Vickers guns in three double mounts
-Crew: Pilot, Loader, Radioman, Gunner-Commander
Notes: The finest refinement of the quadrupedal mecha in the world, this platform brings the heaviest mounted firepower to bear, both in general and ton for ton. The addition of a radio ensures these mecha never work unsupported. In addition, they frequently serve to transport platoons of descant infantry atop their backs.
Russia
Designers of fast, rocket-spewing mecha. Resistance to fire is less mandatory than the ability to deliver it.
Perun
-9 tons
-1x Maxim gun, 40x 65mm rockets
-Crew: Pilot
Notes: The first mecha to weaponize salvo rockets, contained in four wing bins. While Imperial Russian doctrine emphasized the press of engagement- to close to as little as 500 meters- before salvoing off each bin sequentially, the Soviet doctrine is instead to fire two bins together with the rest of the platoon in a preperatory salvo, then engage with the remaining bins on an individual basis.
Comrade Sokolov
-18 tons
-1x Maxim gun, 120x 65mm rocket
-Crew: Pilot
Notes: The first Soviet-designed mecha, this shows a clear inheretence of design from the Perun. In this case, however, the vehicle carries twelve bins, with the Maxim moved to the chin in an unusual mechanical turret configuration. While aim is debatable, what is not is the additional endurance the mecha brings over its smaller sibling, especially as Soviet commanders tend to use platoons of them to cover their smaller brethren as they retreat to rearm.
United States
Designers of a superlative number of mecha; many of which are not listed for brevity.
M19 Spider
-35 tons
-1x 37mm gun, 4x M1917 machine guns
-Crew: Pilot, Gunner, Machine Gunner/Loader, Machine Gunner/Loader
Notes: A copy of the French Araignée, this walker substitutes as many French components for American as possible. They number in the hundreds, but frequently are found broken down for repairs due to inferior articulators.
M22 Lightfoot
-20 tons
-1x 37mm gun, 4x M1919 machine guns
-Crew: Pilot
Notes: While nobody's quite sure how the Americans managed to get all these weapons into a single-pilot platform, the fact of the matter is the Lightfoot is the most heavily-armed single-pilot mecha in existance. Dripping sophistication from the secrets of the arm system to the weaponry loadout, this machine is tiny, but incredibly fierce.
M23 Wetfoot
-20 tons
-1x 37mm gun, 2x M1919 machine guns, 2x flare/smoke projectors
-Crew: Pilot
Notes: A waterproofed and ruggedized version of the M22 Lightfoot for the USMC, with two of the machine guns replaced with flare or smoke projectors.
Italy
Designers of artisanal mecha, few of any are alike. Due to extreme differences, only the overarching types will be listed here.
Ca.G120
-12 tons
-4x Mg 08/15 machine guns, Munitions Satchel
-Crew: Pilot, Gunner
Notes: Armed with two fixed machine guns for the pilot and two for the gunner, the Ca.G120 is a light, mountain-trotting terror. Field armorers would frequently replace the original Fiat-Revali machine guns, until after the Great War it was decided to standardize on German Mg08/15 guns. The munitions satchel is noted as Italian engineers would frequently ride-along, using the mecha to transport large quanities of explosives, mines, or even in some cases trench mortars to problematic positions.
Mc.J410
-18 tons
-2x Breda 12.7mm machine guns
-Crew: Pilot, Gunner
Notes: A very conventional gunner-over-pilot arrangement gives the Mc.J410 an almost uninterrupted field of fire, and the high-caliber machine guns allow it to reach out and touch targets at unprecidented distances. Often refered to as the Great Marksman, these mecha are dangerous from places many wouldn't expect a mecha to attempt to engage from.
Japan
A new competitor in mecha, this country has a gift for light, powerful designs.
A28 Shinden
-16 tons
-3x Type 3 machine guns
-Crew: Pilot, Gunner/Mechanic
Notes: A late entry into the mecha arms race, the Shinden doesn't seem much, until the question of endurance comes up. Equiped with piles of ammo and a bounty of fuel, the Shinden can stay operation in the field for days at a time. Frequently, pilots will add additional weapons, including Bangalore torpedoes, grapel launchers, flare projectors, and on one notable instance a flamethrower.
France
A well-regarded mecha designer, this country frequently fights with itself over what constitutes ideal design
M.1917 Araignée
-35 tons
-1x 37mm gun, 4x Hotchkiss Portative machine guns
-Crew: Pilot, Gunner, Machine Gunner/Loader, Machine Gunner/Loader
Notes: The first hexapod mecha, and still one of the best armored mecha available in regimental strength. Recent refits to the M1925 standard make this old spider a far more dangerous threat than many would expect, however, and few underestimate the vehicles resilience twice.
M.1918 Lièvre
-10 tons
-2x Hotchkiss Portative machine guns
-Crew: Pilot, Gunner
Notes: A light reconnaissance mecha, the Lièvre was the first dedicated artillery spotting platform designed and built as a motorized unit. While not incredibly dangerous like her big brother, the French obsession with terrain crossing is visable here as this mech can cross any broken country with ease.
M.1926 Requin
-16 tons
-2x Hotchkiss Portative machine guns
-Crew: Pilot
Notes: A move away from multi-crewed mecha, the Requin looks in large part like the Lièvre, until one discovers the unmanned upper weapons position is actually controlled from the cockpit. While most consider it a curiosity, the future implications of this are quite important, considering the fact discussion has been made on several occasions of slaving heavier weapons to the system.
M.1927 Fourmi
-20 tons
-1x Hotchkiss Light machine gun
-Crew: Pilot, Gunner
Notes: A move back towards the tradition of the Araignée in its hexapod leg configuration, this mecha is actually far more kin to the light Requin and Lièvre designs. Armed primarily with a radio, this heavy scout mecha is impossible to dislodge once planted, and has the terrifying trait of being neigh-impossible to confirm kills on: especially as a 'dead' unit will frequently still be radioing in corrections to a barrage.
- Location
- New York
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I see Italy is ahead of the curve in producing unique models and custom jobs. Maybe not the best idea right now, but in the 23 century mecha pilots will look back and laugh at the humble origins of overpowered prototype superweapon disease.
- Location
- California
Would you look at that. We're in the data books, and our French spooder mech will have a reputation of being unkillable. Also, they describe it's most devastating weapon as the Radio we crammed in. Some truly historic work.
- Location
- Queensland, Australia
Yeah, it might be lightly armed but it looks like our mecha's going to go down in the history books as the scout mecha. It's not a reconnaissance mecha necessarily because it doesn't quite have the speed to rush out, find the enemy, learn everything about them and get back. On the other hand, what we have is someone that ranges just in front of the actual army to find the enemy and pin down their location for the rest of the army to crush them. Meanwhile after doing that, it's still out there, trucking along because it's got great endurance for the times, radioing in the enemy's reaction and causing the enemy to swear up a devil because it just won't die, or if it did die, why the hell is the enemy still correcting their artillery barrages in response to our movements?
To make things even better, it's got absolutely brilliant all terrain capabilities and I think you need to knock out two legs for that to be seriously reduced along with speed? Or in other words, something that would be crippling damage for another mecha still leaves it functional enough to escape back to it's own unit or 'merely' find somewhere to hide and continue calling in scout reports.
It only light tank/mecha armour admittedly but that's something even modern combat units in that weight range don't tend to have comparatively better. So not really a disadvantage there.
To make things even better, it's got absolutely brilliant all terrain capabilities and I think you need to knock out two legs for that to be seriously reduced along with speed? Or in other words, something that would be crippling damage for another mecha still leaves it functional enough to escape back to it's own unit or 'merely' find somewhere to hide and continue calling in scout reports.
It only light tank/mecha armour admittedly but that's something even modern combat units in that weight range don't tend to have comparatively better. So not really a disadvantage there.
TortugaGreen
Constantly out of the loop
- Pronouns
- She/Her
it's not like the radio has much competition with how lightly armed the thing is, but a rifle-caliber MG will at least be able to trouble any infantry it stumbles upon. It's very nice that it's so sturdy too, given that it's pretty big for its job and not exactly the fastest mech around so will probably be taking hits a lot more than a smaller, faster scout mech.
TimEd
Meteor maker
It's all terrain stability makes its speed pretty dang deceitful though. Just imagine sending scout mechs to chase this and it runs over sand or into forests or whatever difficult terrain there is. It's good off-road capabilities mean this artillery spotter can come from a more oblique angle of entry with little fear of getting chased down.
I mean apart from beaches where are you going to find sand lol. It's a good mech for it's role though.
For our current mech I think we should aim for a slower mech with similar zombieness
For our current mech I think we should aim for a slower mech with similar zombieness
- Location
- California
The golf course :^V
Those accursed sand-bars have barred the way for the last time.
Punchweasel
Maverick Weasel
- Location
- Central Illinois, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Him
"Have you heard of horse polo? Because we have a much more extreme idea with golf..."
- Location
- USA
So what should the main weapon be on this mech I'm thinking either a 47mm or a breech loaded mortar.
It's an infantry support mech. Keeping that in mind I'd rather have the 47mm if possible. Since infantry can easily transport mortars by themselves.
Although I'm worried that the 47mm would end up being useless if we can't take a shot in return, it would result in us effectively having no role in the field.
Although I'm worried that the 47mm would end up being useless if we can't take a shot in return, it would result in us effectively having no role in the field.
7734
Trust and verify.
- Location
- Philmont
I'm calling the vote tonight and going over weapons options then, but you don't have any options in 47mm. Your smallest is going to just be the 13.2mm Hotchkiss guns, your largest is going to be a 120mmm gun-mortar. I'm thinking about throwing in rockets, and there's going to be a few options there from the Russian 65mm to a 133mm naval rocket.
Italian racing mecha are currently kicking your ass in the 24hr de Spa-Frachamps, so you really can't comment too much on this.
I don't know, agricultural mecha are pretty good at the whole 'off-road' thing, since they are designed to work in forestry and on the farm. Getting cocky about your mecha is a good way to eat turf later.
is this like a serious question or...?
Hey, just been reading through this. I was wondering, with it supposed to be a infantry close support mech, what sort of ammuntion would the cannon/mortar have to fire? Apart from high explosive warheads would it also be capable of firing things such as armour piercing, smoke rounds and possibly to the horror of infantry everwhere cannister rounds?
The cannister rounds espicially would be useful when the mech inevitably gets cut off, or attacked by a mass of infantry, with the ability to just make large amounts of people dissappear in a fine red mist.
The cannister rounds espicially would be useful when the mech inevitably gets cut off, or attacked by a mass of infantry, with the ability to just make large amounts of people dissappear in a fine red mist.
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our mechs claim to fame is that IT. JUST. WON'T. DIE. And it has a radio meaning they are REALLY GOOD at reporting keeping an eye on enemy positions by sheer dint of needing overkill to actually take out.
7734
Trust and verify.
- Location
- Philmont
Depends on the mortar. As a rule, though, it shoots mortar rounds and lofted submunitions. If you're not quite sure if a shell is a mortar round, check Wik*pedia.
North Africa.
Hell, if you replaced the flat feet with cleets or claws, it could probably scale 40+° slopes with ease.
Edit:
"You know what, you weasel, you might be on to something there."
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