No? That's far from the only use exposition at the end of a series can have. How often do you not have characters talking about how the world has changed now that Person X has died, only for said person to turn out alive with little to no explanation for how it happened?
That's not exposition. That's dramatic irony. And it requires the speech be
demonstrated to the audience to be wrong in the same work.
Not the same setting. The same
work. So Rebellion doesn't count.
Also, if we assume that the "end of series expositioner" is the author's mouthpiece, wouldn't that apply to Homura's speech at the end of the series about how curses still exist and she's going to protect the world even though it really isn't worth saving?
Granted, that would be a lot more in character for the Urobutcher, but I don't think it really supports your argument.
That's not exposition. That's Homura discussing her own motivation. It's an entirely separate thing. It's about her opinions whereas Madoka's is about cold, hard facts.
Why exactly do you say she is utterly infallible? Because there is nothing about her wish that would actually make her infallible at anything other than preventing witches.
She has the role of explaining things to the audience. So she can't be wrong. Because if she was wrong, the audience would get the wrong explanation and the piece of fiction would fail.
(also, could I have a quote for Madoka claiming to be omnipresent? Not that I am doubting you here, I just can neither find nor recall that particular line, and phrasing can be quite important for this sort of discussion)
"Now I can see everything in both the past and the future. The worlds that might have existed, and the worlds that might come to exist. All of them. So I understand everything."
(I'm told that a better translation for "worlds" here is "Universes". Which should be obvious from the context, but it's nice to have explicit confirmation. Also, this is a claim of omniscience.)
"I had to change like this before I finally got to know the real you."
(Just a reminder that Madoka's claiming to have now studied Homura's past)
"You're all with me forever. The way I am now, I'll always be everywhere. Even though you can't see or hear me, I'll be with you, Homura."
(Translation: I am omnipresent.)
Simple. By not thinking of/knowing of the places where you don't exist.
How? It doesn't make sense. Besides, she claims in the quotes I've provided to be in every place that exists, used to exist, will exist,
is physically possible to exist even though it doesn't, and even
never will exist.
Or by speaking metaphorically, that works too.
In which case, the scene would not have been presented that way. Tell me, if you wanted to write that a character had the powers I'm claiming for Madoka, how would you avoid people dismissing them as being unproven? Answer: You can't. So the complaint is invalid.
I cannot find any quotes that contradict you, but I couldn't find any quote that spoke in favour of you either.
What I did refind was the Fate/Zero Vol. 1 Afterword, AKA where Urobuchi revealed the ending to Madoka several years beforehand:
That's what I was talkin about, yes.
Noticeably, it only speaks about breaking cause and effect, common sense and the laws of the world. Something that Madoka did even if we assume her abilities are limited to destroying all witches that ever existed/will exist and then simply fading away without any impact.
Firstly, that would be enough, as it would mean that Madoka is capable of reaching that power. If the supposed claim was true, Madoka's wish + wish power + magical girl power should always add up to the same thing. As such,
other versions of Madoka should be able to do
equally impressive things. The fact that they
don't shows that the claim is faulty. Also, you are forgetting stuff.
"in order to write a perfect ending for a story"
"Only a heavenly and chaste soul that can sing carols of praise towards humanity can save the story. To write a story with a perfect ending is"
Ie. This would be a "perfect ending" by
Urobuchi's standards. ie. The ending would have to have the protonist
fix and solve absolutely everything perfectly. Which means that Urobuchi intended Madoka to have done that. Which means that if you can think of
absolutely any problem with the ending
at all, Madoka had the power to fix it and did.
To confirm:
A "magical girl show" is a work that allows miracles to be written. For me, I think by [writing] Madoka I was able to write a "heartwarming story." To be able to put all these different emotions into a work... that truly owes much to this vessel called the "magical girl show".
—
Gen Urobuchi, DVD/BD Volume 6 Booklet.
Confirmation that he did what he set out to do.
Also, it is common decency to use a quote when you have one. Quoting canon is one of the fastest was to end an argument, and doing so quite well could've prevented me from continuing this line of argument.
Sorry. I was getting tired of being dismissed, so I wanted to be sure it would be worth the effort. Still my fault. Sorry.
Not when we are talking canon. An author's ideas for how a story works and what happens offscreen can and will change as he works on it, and Revellion in particular has been described as a group effort by Gen.
So even if Gen at the time envisioned Madoka as ending after 12 episodes, the fact that it didn't doesn't change.
Okay. I
admit that retconning can occur. In fact, I was weary of watching Rebellion as what I'd heard made me believe that retconning had occurred and I was disgusted that they would pull something so cheap. But watching t got me to realise that it doesn't require a retcon as long as the entire thing was part of Madoka's plan. That said, even if that
was retconned, my point was that this is the power Madoka was conceived to have at the time of the series. Retconning doesn't change that.
Also, I find it interesting that you use falsifiability as your reasoning while at the same time making a by-your-own admission unfalsifiable claim. Not to dismiss the works of older scientists, but I think Popper had the right idea overall.
I'm not trying to present my own interpretation as the rebuttal to their argument. I'm only using facts to rebut their argument. All I intended to do was falsify their claim. That said, it
is falsifiable. If someone found I quote by Urobuchi claiming that the reason he put a specific detail into the original TV show was for the express purpose of telling the audience that Madoka's claims about her power were wrong, I'd consider my claim falsified. (I'd also consider it
bad writing, but that's a separate issue).
- Not even Madokami was that powerful
- What the fuck does that have to do with anything?
I'm saying she is, but admittedly, the point is that the final version of magical girl Madoka
dwarfs the power of the other timelines, which would be impossible if your claim was true.
Your insistence is based on presupposing something then going back to find things to support it.
No. I only believed that because of what the show informed me in the first place.
Her claims are not necessarily accurate, especially as she lies in the very same speech, and is proven fallible later, having claimed what you say is infallibility.
It's impossible for a characters claims in that situation not to be accurate. She's informing the audience. The rest is character stuff and not subject to the same "exposition to the audience" rule.
The metaphysics of the series by your interpretation is not valid to justify your claim when your interpretation of the metaphysics is one of the things we're debating the validity of.
Even the metaphysics which is generally agreed upon supports it.
The wording of her wish does not support your claim at all.
"I want to erase every witch before they are born!" - Timetravel, unmaking
"Every witch, from every world," - Again, that's Universe and that's
every one. Absolutely anything Madoka is capable of conceiving as a witch in absolutely everything she is capable of conceiving as a world, so the entire multiverse and beyond. Also, imagine a witch, thats a with in the world of your imagination and she can retroactively erase it.
Every witch and
every world.
No exceptions.
"from the past and the future." - Time travel again. Including future and past Universes.
"With my own hands." - "Give me the physical power to accomplish this myself rather than make it an automatic action as a result of my wish"
"I don't care what I become." - "Allow me to take whatever form is necessary for what I want to do."
"I don't want to let those girls cry. All those Puella Magi who believed in their hope and fought against witches. I want them to live on with smiles on their faces." - "Give me the power to undo their misery."
"I will destroy the rules that prevent that. I will change them." - "Make me a reality warper."
"This is my prayer. This is my wish. Fulfill it, Incubator!"
"I won't let your prayers end in despair." - "Give them a happy ending."
"You won't curse anyone. You won't torment anyone." - "Stop them from becoming monsters."
"I'll take all the misfortune" - "Let me take their suffering on their behalf." (Also, as the power of a magical girl is equal to the amount she will suffer that's an extra power boost)
"So please, believe in yourselves to the very end!" - "Give them the ability to believe in themselves."
"You don't have to hate anyone anymore. You don't have to curse anyone anymore. I will stop you before it comes to that." -Give me the ability to personally prevent every girl from becoming a monster."
"My wish is to erase every witch." - "No exceptions."
No math has been involved in the discussion that I have seen.
I've reminded you that any combination of fractions adds to the same total.
There's also the infinite loop thing, but I haven't brought it up here before now.
What makes you think they don't know about Witches?
I know everything 
