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Madara Campione Quest

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Emperor Toast said:
Divinity is a reflection of the strength of your godhood. Higher divinity levels will strengthen your command and control of your authorities, allow you to use them more often, etc. I think I'm going to delineate from campione canon soon and allow for the expansion of authorities as campione and gods grow in strength. An example would be if you have very high divinity your authority might evolve or split into two authorities. Still on the fence about this one but considering it.
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I think the best way to handle this would be that rather than having an Authority evolve or split the user would either have to put training time in to fully master the Authority and/or reach a sufficient level of divinity to do so automatically. The end result would be that restrictions on Authorities might be lifted, rather than the Authority outright evolving.

1. As a canon example of this Godou is able to banish the Boar after summoning it, but if it hasn't fulfilled its purpose when he makes the attempt there's a chance it'll fight him - this apparently indicates he hasn't fully mastered the use of that Authority.
2. As an in quest example of this higher divinity would let us maintain more high level artifacts from the Golden Pagoda at a given time. Currently as a 'baby' Campione with relatively low divinity we're restricted to one, but raising our divinity will let us take another one out.
3. Various restrictions like "godspeed is physically taxing without using a related Avatar" (a restriction for both Black Prince Alec and Godou), "this Authority may only be used once per day", "using this Authority in this manner will lock it out for half a day" might be lifted or lessened, making them more useful. The main reason for most of the restrictions is that Campione are still somewhat mortal, so making them more divine would logically make them able to use Authorities better.

Another possible way to handle this would be giving Madara the ability to combine Authorities. Godou is the only canon Campione who can do this, likely due to his main Authorities all actually being one big one, though it's taxing. With sufficient Divinity and training Madara may be able to figure out how to do this - his Sharingan may help him understand Authorities in a way other Campione can't, as an in quest explanation.

Of course, for Authorities that lack restrictions you could simply power them up - more divinity -> more divine power -> more powerful Authority. For instance, as I said before with Black Prince Alec's Black Lightning Authority, when he's in the Avatar of Lightning form his Lightning isn't strong enough to damage Campione or Heretic Gods. Higher divinity could up the power so that it could start doing low level damage.
 
Enjou said:
I think the best way to handle this would be that rather than having an Authority evolve or split the user would either have to put training time in to fully master the Authority and/or reach a sufficient level of divinity to do so automatically. The end result would be that restrictions on Authorities might be lifted, rather than the Authority outright evolving.

1. As a canon example of this Godou is able to banish the Boar after summoning it, but if it hasn't fulfilled its purpose when he makes the attempt there's a chance it'll fight him - this apparently indicates he hasn't fully mastered the use of that Authority.
2. As an in quest example of this higher divinity would let us maintain more high level artifacts from the Golden Pagoda at a given time. Currently as a 'baby' Campione with relatively low divinity we're restricted to one, but raising our divinity will let us take another one out.
3. Various restrictions like "godspeed is physically taxing without using a related Avatar" (a restriction for both Black Prince Alec and Godou), "this Authority may only be used once per day", "using this Authority in this manner will lock it out for half a day" might be lifted or lessened, making them more useful. The main reason for most of the restrictions is that Campione are still somewhat mortal, so making them more divine would logically make them able to use Authorities better.

Another possible way to handle this would be giving Madara the ability to combine Authorities. Godou is the only canon Campione who can do this, likely due to his main Authorities all actually being one big one, though it's taxing. With sufficient Divinity and training Madara may be able to figure out how to do this - his Sharingan may help him understand Authorities in a way other Campione can't, as an in quest explanation.

Of course, for Authorities that lack restrictions you could simply power them up - more divinity -> more divine power -> more powerful Authority. For instance, as I said before with Black Prince Alec's Black Lightning Authority, when he's in the Avatar of Lightning form his Lightning isn't strong enough to damage Campione or Heretic Gods. Higher divinity could up the power so that it could start doing low level damage.
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Man I hate typing on a phone but I do like this idea. I meant evolve more like a power up than it changing to something else but I think the gist of what you wrote is the end result I want.

Sharingan authority synergy I already had planned out for very specific authority types.

I think as a Stat I was going to have divinity raise with training and usage as well as the attainment of additional authorities.

I'm considering restriction type authorities but not sure yet. Godou got ten different ones from one kill so I think he definitely needed restrictions on his. The ramiel black lightning also had the godspeed component so it couldn't be super strong lightning too. Would be too much
 
Emperor Toast said:
Divinity is a reflection of the strength of your godhood. Higher divinity levels will strengthen your command and control of your authorities, allow you to use them more often, etc. I think I'm going to delineate from campione canon soon and allow for the expansion of authorities as campione and gods grow in strength. An example would be if you have very high divinity your authority might evolve or split into two authorities. Still on the fence about this one but considering it.
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From what we've seen, this DOES happen. Authorities grow with their bearers, though their essential nature, the legend they represent, does not change, their capabilities do as you grow into your power.

Godou managed it with Verethagna's 10 forms. Doesn't quite split, but it has new applications, and multiple Authorities can be combined
 
veekie said:
Godou managed it with Verethagna's 10 forms. Doesn't quite split, but it has new applications, and multiple Authorities can be combined
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Something like Verethagna's original Authority that got bestowed to Godou actually had 10 abilities?

And starting with the Sword, Godou's mastery of his sole Authority led to him unlocking its higher tiers (Boar, Raptor, etc., finally up to the Youth), and eventually combining them, yeah.

It's not that Godou had 10 Authorities initially, but he actually had a Lv. 1 Authority that he was able to improve and eventually master.


On a separate note, a godspeed Authority would be so hax.
 
meganeshounen said:
Something like Verethagna's original Authority that got bestowed to Godou actually had 10 abilities?

And starting with the Sword, Godou's mastery of his sole Authority led to him unlocking its higher tiers (Boar, Raptor, etc., finally up to the Youth), and eventually combining them, yeah.

It's not that Godou had 10 Authorities initially, but he actually had a Lv. 1 Authority that he was able to improve and eventually master.


On a separate note, a godspeed Authority would be so hax.
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I'm thinking about calling it Raijin: Flying Thunder God
 
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meganeshounen said:
Something like Verethagna's original Authority that got bestowed to Godou actually had 10 abilities?

And starting with the Sword, Godou's mastery of his sole Authority led to him unlocking its higher tiers (Boar, Raptor, etc., finally up to the Youth), and eventually combining them, yeah.

It's not that Godou had 10 Authorities initially, but he actually had a Lv. 1 Authority that he was able to improve and eventually master.


On a separate note, a godspeed Authority would be so hax.
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I meant combining the forms with the sword.
 
Emperor Toast said:
I'm thinking about calling it Raijin: Flying Thunder God
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I think that would be a good name for it, though maybe just Flying Thunder. Maybe Thunderbolt instead of just Thunder if you cut out the God part, though I'm not entirely sold on the notion. None of the canonical Authorities I can see actually include "God" in their title. A god is the wielder of the Authority, not the Authority itself.
 
Enjou said:
I think that would be a good name for it, though maybe just Flying Thunder. Maybe Thunderbolt instead of just Thunder if you cut out the God part, though I'm not entirely sold on the notion. None of the canonical Authorities I can see actually include "God" in their title. A god is the wielder of the Authority, not the Authority itself.
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I wasn't being too serious about it just making a joke about madara using hiraishin
 
Enjou said:
I think that would be a good name for it, though maybe just Flying Thunder. Maybe Thunderbolt instead of just Thunder if you cut out the God part, though I'm not entirely sold on the notion. None of the canonical Authorities I can see actually include "God" in their title. A god is the wielder of the Authority, not the Authority itself.
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Actually the authorities themselves do not have names. In most cases it is Europe's Wizengamot that makes the names for the various authorities of the Campione, or in the case of Luo Hao, she makes them herself.
 
veekie said:
From what we've seen, this DOES happen. Authorities grow with their bearers, though their essential nature, the legend they represent, does not change, their capabilities do as you grow into your power.

Godou managed it with Verethagna's 10 forms. Doesn't quite split, but it has new applications, and multiple Authorities can be combined
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basically. Also Annie also has restrictions for her transformation authority. it seems authorites with multiple applications tend to have restrictions on them in addition to the whole authorities grow stronger the more you use them thing. After all the purpose of a avatar is to improve a campione's body so that they can use their authority more effectively.
 
Soo, anyone else think we should focus on whatever's going on to our west next?

The cults are still small time, while whatever is to our west has effectively taken all of western japan and is free to terrorize 20+ million of OUR subjects.
 
That sounds okay pretty light on stats but still fun, I was going to suggest something like integrity scale lots of systems have vehicles doing more and taking more damage but then I realized it would require you to stat pretty much everything even if you borrowed a simple 1 point in a stat/skill is worth one dice and pools are relevant stat and relevant skill that is still a huge amount of dice and work even if you had a system already just like it in your experience.

I think there are a few ck2 simplified systems for quests already maybe you can ask for permission to use one?
 
Lost Egos said:
That sounds okay pretty light on stats but still fun, I was going to suggest something like integrity scale lots of systems have vehicles doing more and taking more damage but then I realized it would require you to stat pretty much everything even if you borrowed a simple 1 point in a stat/skill is worth one dice and pools are relevant stat and relevant skill that is still a huge amount of dice and work even if you had a system already just like it in your experience.

I think there are a few ck2 simplified systems for quests already maybe you can ask for permission to use one?
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Do you have an example of a ck2 simplified? I'm not sure if I've seen one. The EUIV is 3 stats military, administrative and diplomatic which I probably would make war, rule and something diplomatic ish haha if I pursued that route.
 
Emperor Toast said:
Do you have an example of a ck2 simplified? I'm not sure if I've seen one. The EUIV is 3 stats military, administrative and diplomatic which I probably would make war, rule and something diplomatic ish haha if I pursued that route.
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Thats a good point, what represents diplomacy while still bearing that unique, Madara Uchiha, charm?

Edit: Gengutsu?
 
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Gen.Raven said:
Soo, anyone else think we should focus on whatever's going on to our west next?

The cults are still small time, while whatever is to our west has effectively taken all of western japan and is free to terrorize 20+ million of OUR subjects.
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That was marked as being very high risk, so I'd like to clean up the other half of Japan we do control first, using the minor actions to train up our forces further as well as further powering up Madara.
 
Emperor Toast said:
Do you have an example of a ck2 simplified? I'm not sure if I've seen one. The EUIV is 3 stats military, administrative and diplomatic which I probably would make war, rule and something diplomatic ish haha if I pursued that route.
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I know I've seen them on here and I do play eu4 I've actually got all of the main line expansions but res rebulica unfortunately my computer is so shitty I can't iron man due to frequent crashes. I know I've seen them mentioned at least twice with one giving credit to another I just can't remember them give me a minute to look about a bit.

Taking a cursory look this looks like one.
https://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/threads/the-bloodstone-marches-warmachine-hordes-ck2.19073/
This looks like another but more complicated rather then less.
https://forums.sufficientvelocity.c...he-dusk-a-planetary-governor-quest-43k.10642/
one by zooboss
https://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/threads/dynasty-quest-raising-a-keep-asoiaf-ck2.18460/

I'm sure if you poke around these a bit you will be able to find someone to point you at the resources they used for research and give good advice. I mean I found these in like 5 minutes I'm sure there are more.
 
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Enjou said:
That was marked as being very high risk, so I'd like to clean up the other half of Japan we do control first, using the minor actions to train up our forces further as well as further powering up Madara.
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Yes, and that risk will keep increasing if we do not put a stop to whoever it is. If we decided to focus on the small time cults, they would be free to further plan, train, and who knows what else, and then, knowing we would be able to focus on them without the cults, attack us.
 
Kudos for the Raijin fight, it was suitably epic and easy to visualize. The problem with rolls has been already voiced; I am the opinion that simple bonuses/penalties would do best, with dice being rolled for both sides of the engagement. In this instance, the most noticable problem was that pre-Compione Madara and current Madara had the same (none) modificators to rolls, which in itself makes little sense unless Raijin was that much stronger than the first god. Also, there is no practical representaion of a character's specialties. Madara, as a mainly ninjutsu combatant, should get better results with those types of attack, compared to, say, hand-to-hand. Raijin, as well, looks like an elementally-inclined god, while Bishamonten would get bonuses to melee combat.

And a minor point: there was some disconnect between the damage Madara's physical attacks had done to a Warrior God (breaking apart his armor) and to Raijin (shrugged off). That is, after the Campione power-up.


On another note, I think it would be better to employ less descriptive and more... show-y way to write the updates that have to do with important characters. Specifically, I am talking about the snippet about taking Kureha into his service. Actual dialog woud have done great there. Frankly, that part left me completely baffled about the characters' behavior, which a more detailed narrative might have prevented. First Madara acts scared? nervous? enough to avoid the issue and sends Kureha on useless missions, both wasting her time and acting uncharacteristically bothered by the situation. Then Kureha contradicts herself in a single paragraph: speaks of her 'great dread' of 'the tyranny of the Devil Kings', then immediately calls Madara 'a chauvinistic pig' and 'feels he is worthy of her service'. That's rather conceited and belligerent of her? Even disregarding the fact she is talking to a Campione, it is plain rude and insensible to go about asking to be accepted into service like that. It wouldn't be a big deal if they were comfortable with each other to that degree, but... there were no in-story signs to indicate such.

In short, maybe include some interactions with notable characters instead of general overview of events?
 
Gen.Raven said:
Yes, and that risk will keep increasing if we do not put a stop to whoever it is. If we decided to focus on the small time cults, they would be free to further plan, train, and who knows what else, and then, knowing we would be able to focus on them without the cults, attack us.
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Given the apparent risk of death, there is either another Campione in the area or a relatively powerful Heretic God and their cult. The latter seems more likely, as the former wouldn't have much reason to fuck with the HCC. The cult itself isn't much threat to us, and no matter what kind of training they do they are but worms to Madara. The Heretic God on the other hand would be a threat, but it isn't likely to increase in power as most gods are rather static in their relative power level.


Gerrou said:
Frankly, that part left me completely baffled about the characters' behavior, which a more detailed narrative might have prevented. First Madara acts scared? nervous? enough to avoid the issue and sends Kureha on useless missions, both wasting her time and acting uncharacteristically bothered by the situation.
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I believe this was meant to be a comical misunderstanding. The words coming out of her mouth were "Take me..." and Madara assumes she's about to say something like "to bed with you" where she's trying to say "into your service". He wanted to avoid it as it was awkward as hell.

Gerrou said:
Then Kureha contradicts herself in a single paragraph: speaks of her 'great dread' of 'the tyranny of the Devil Kings', then immediately calls Madara 'a chauvinistic pig' and 'feels he is worthy of her service'. That's rather conceited and belligerent of her? Even disregarding the fact she is talking to a Campione, it is plain rude and insensible to go about asking to be accepted into service like that.
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Considering how Erica treats Godou in canon, it's not that unusual. As far as Madara being a chauvinistic pig but still worthy of her service, remember that his initial meeting with her was him saying he asked for a tutor rather than someone to warm his bed - the guy doesn't exactly view women as equals unless they actually demonstrate otherwise. That might change, but most of the ninja in his era were men, so it'll take time for him to adjust his views. For belligerent, remember that when he made that comment she transformed into a dragon and hit us with fire that burned for seven days and seven nights. She's quite proud, and the fact that she's figured out that we're not the type of Campione who will kill her for being a bit insolent means she'll speak freely. Being worthy of her service is because in spite of our flaws we're aiming to actually do our job proactively and protect Japan and also haven't really been abusing our power, so we're better than most Campione are reputed to be.
 
Enjou said:
Given the apparent risk of death, there is either another Campione in the area or a relatively powerful Heretic God and their cult. The latter seems more likely, as the former wouldn't have much reason to fuck with the HCC. The cult itself isn't much threat to us, and no matter what kind of training they do they are but worms to Madara. The Heretic God on the other hand would be a threat, but it isn't likely to increase in power as most gods are rather static in their relative power level.
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Obviously the cultists would be mooks. Granted, the Heretic God might not train, but he/she's still going to increase their chance of taking over the rest of Japan however they can. Better we deal with them now, freshly empowered by Raijin, then later.

Gerrou said:
the most noticable problem was that pre-Compione Madara and current Madara had the same (none) modificators to rolls, which in itself makes little sense unless Raijin was that much stronger than the first god.
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Well, Raijin was a major god in Japanese mythology, and IIRC, in one legend, one of the guys assigned to protect the Dharma by the Buddha.
 
While I DO think that the unknown threat is a Heretic God more likely than anything else, there is always a possibility it is something we can't fight just by blasting it or hitting it really hard. It is easy to forget that Campione were ENGINEERED solution against gods, so for all their power there could be someone out there who tries to engineer a solution against THEM.
 
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