I mean plasma is kind a hit and a miss for at the moment? its primary use is torching Battle Armor and vehicles, which i guess works to promote the whole "mechs don't take damage from heat" thing and doesn't have explosive ammo like the AC/10, so i guess it can be seen as an upgrade to that. But i still see the LBX10 as better given that it has better range and much better heat management, given our focus on stealth.
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Mackie was a Maus: A BattleTech design quest
- Thread starter tomwritestuff
- Start date
- Sci-Fi
I've seen plasma done as a PPC replacement more often then an AC 10 replacment.
which is both understandable and weird. its understandable given that they generate the same heat and weigh almost the same, but its doesn't make sense once you consider that the PPC has a range of 18 and the Plasma Rifle has a range of 15, putting it more inline with the Large Laser or AC/10. That, and 1 Plasma Rifle plus DHS sinks to cool it is 11 tons, one less than the AC/10 tonnage, and they have the same ammo per ton, 10 shots. The slot difference is even such that trading out the AC/10 for the Rifle frees up 5 slots, which is enough for 1 and 2/3s a DHS. So yeah, IMO while the Plasma rifle may most often be a substitute for a PPC its also a solid replacement for the AC/10 if you don't want the LBX10 for some reason.
I think the PR outdoes the PPC as an ubran combat weapon. No min range and the bonus damage helps counter infantry ambushes.
True, but it still has to compete with replacing the PPC with an ER PPC, which while being hotter and heavier has way better range brackets and doesn't use ammo
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Plan: Finalization of the Ettin and Moon Hols!
-[X] Continue working on Ettin, Lock in Improved Targeting and Arm it with the AMS.
-[X] General Murphy! [gains 1 favor]
-[X] Family!
-[X] Rebecca [costs 1 favor for wrangling General Murphy]
-[X] "Prototype" is an Anti Missile System (AMS).
I think that once we have the Ettin stabilized we should revisit our 50 ton mechs. The transport conditions that influenced us trying that tonnage are still relevant. I'd also like to leverage our AP ammo and hardened armor more. It sounds like we can luck into engineering things that don't exist in the canonical BT universe, so perhaps our society's familiarity with heavy metal engineering can work around some of the inherent trade offs that exist in those two technologies. An XL equivalent fission engine would also be a godsend.
-[X] Continue working on Ettin, Lock in Improved Targeting and Arm it with the AMS.
-[X] General Murphy! [gains 1 favor]
-[X] Family!
-[X] Rebecca [costs 1 favor for wrangling General Murphy]
-[X] "Prototype" is an Anti Missile System (AMS).
I think that once we have the Ettin stabilized we should revisit our 50 ton mechs. The transport conditions that influenced us trying that tonnage are still relevant. I'd also like to leverage our AP ammo and hardened armor more. It sounds like we can luck into engineering things that don't exist in the canonical BT universe, so perhaps our society's familiarity with heavy metal engineering can work around some of the inherent trade offs that exist in those two technologies. An XL equivalent fission engine would also be a godsend.
Since no one has written a plan I like I'll try my hand at it.
[X] Plan: Final Rundown and Beach Vacation
-[X] Continue working on Ettin
--[X] Attempt to eliminate Difficult ejection
--[X] Attempt to solidify Battle Computer
--[X] Attempt to solidify Improved Targeting, Medium
-[X] Rebecca [costs 1 favor for wrangling General Murphy]
-[X] A particle cannon.
[X] Plan: Final Rundown and Beach Vacation
-[X] Continue working on Ettin
--[X] Attempt to eliminate Difficult ejection
--[X] Attempt to solidify Battle Computer
--[X] Attempt to solidify Improved Targeting, Medium
-[X] Rebecca [costs 1 favor for wrangling General Murphy]
-[X] A particle cannon.
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We already eliminated poor targeting.
I'm not entirely sure how I made that mistake. I wanted to eliminate Difficult ejection.
- Location
- Across the universe
Just to clarify, it is my intent to try to resolve the holiday, engineering design turn decision, and new-prototype-toy selection votes separately, as they don't interact directly with each other, and we do have some people who have voted only on some issues and not others.
Depending on the combination of whole-plan vs single-issue votes in the final tally, doing that vote tally may require some manual parsing efforts.
Also, yes, time to get your votes in. Right now it looks like the three engineering plan contenders are do the demo; install an AMS; and keep ironing out basic quirks. Though those are all in the 1-3 vote range, so it might not be too late to propose a different plan if you want to.
Depending on the combination of whole-plan vs single-issue votes in the final tally, doing that vote tally may require some manual parsing efforts.
Also, yes, time to get your votes in. Right now it looks like the three engineering plan contenders are do the demo; install an AMS; and keep ironing out basic quirks. Though those are all in the 1-3 vote range, so it might not be too late to propose a different plan if you want to.
Vote closed
- Location
- Across the universe
- Particle cannon wins the tech vote with 4 total votes.
- There are 3 votes for Family + General Murphy + Rebecca, and 3 votes for only Rebecca. Tiebreak required.
- The engineering update is to try to lock in improved targeting and to add an AMS.
| Weapon | Heat | Damage | Minimum | Short | Medium | Long | Tonnage | Critical slots |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Mk I PPC | 15 | 10 | 3 | 6 | 12 | 18 | 10 | 4 |
... apparently the dice love you, you've solidified Improved Targeting on the first roll for a low price of 1 RP. You are bringing only Rebecca. And here is your prototype Mark I Particle Projector Cannon, on extended loan from PROJECT RED BARON.
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Combined with 6 DHS puts it at the same heat and weight as an AC 10 with 4 tons of ammo. 4 tons of AC 10 non-AP ammo is a lot of ammo, it must be said. But it's not off-the-charts ridiculous. Ettin started out with a cannon assembly we could one-for-one replace with the PPC prototype.
It'd be much more favorable combined with lighter-weight fusion engines than we have, to be sure. But, well, it's a prototype.
EDIT: In conclusion, we could (after the demonstration and releasing the initial production version) very easily refit Ettin to play testbed for this thing.
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True, but i am still of the opinion that an autocannon would be easier to figure out and apply long term. And 4 tons of AC10 ammo is 40 shots of normal ammo, 20 of AP, i cannot think of any unit that takes that much ammo for one gun, so objectively speaking this makes the PPC and heatsinks heavier than the current gun and the sane amounts of ammo we have. It would fix our heat sink and ammo problems though i will give you that.
I voted for the PPC, but I'd have had no complaint if we got an LB-X prototype. Even a hyper-velocity would have been interesting if odd. (Ultra maybe not so much.)
Honestly Ettin as it is might really have too little ammo. 15 may be enough for a single engagement but it's pretty limiting if you can't reload every time you're out of combat. Swapping a ton for regular rounds (as seen on the tanks) might be a good idea to mitigate that a little. Note that current Ettin has less ammo than the stock Cyclops it was originally based on.
Beach vacation!
- Location
- Across the universe
Beach Vacation (and Ettin Mark IV)
Your hotel room is located in a high-rise tower perched on a cliff on the west side of the island. It's a luxury complex, with multiple restaurants and bars within walking distance, plus access to swimming pools and hot tubs that overlook the ocean. There are also numerous shops nearby.
"This is really nice," Rebecca says. She walks over to the sliding door and stares outside at the ocean. "Sunlight. A little orange, but ... no dome."
"Yeah," you say. You sit down on the bed. "I'm glad they gave us a balcony."
Rebecca slides the door open and steps out onto the balcony. Outside, you can hear the roar of surf crashing against rocks below. Beyond that, there are palm trees swaying gently in the breeze. On the horizon, you can see the distant silhouette of another small island poking out above the clouds.
"How far do you think that island is from here?" Rebecca asks, shading her eyes from the sun.
You shrug. "Not sure. Maybe a couple kilometers?"
"I feel really light on my feet," she says, taking a quick experimental hop. "Gravity's something like half of Tharkad's," she adds.
"It's almost exactly two thirds of the pull of Nukashuba," you say. "Even though it's half again the diameter. Heck, even Herald actually has more gravity to it. Nuhai is just a lightweight world. Ready to hit the beach?"
"I need sunglasses," Rebecca says. "I forgot those were a thing."
You snort. "We can stop by one of the stores and grab you a pair."
"Back up. You said that Herald has more surface gravity. Is there a permanent presence there?" Rebecca says, intently curious.
"It's cold and dark and doesn't have much of an atmosphere," you say. "Supposedly it was more convenient to the jump point. The Elders maintained a base there, but as far as I know, the only thing there of interest is their crashed JumpShip."
Rebecca's thoughtful expression worries you.
"The very non-functional crashed JumpShip. The Fleet is probably trying to figure out how it works," you say.
Rebecca nods. "So that's what Project Burning Eagle is all about?"
"Uh. Yeah, I guess," you say, evasively. "Beach time?"
"Beach time," Rebecca says, agreeably.
***
Outside, there are people everywhere. Some are wearing swimsuits, others are wearing loose and colorful clothing. About a third of the women are wearing scandalously tiny and colorful garments that expose their midriffs. Rebecca eyes one of the passing nearly-naked women. "They have real swimsuits here?" she asks. "Let's get some of those, too," she says, smoothing the ruffled skirt of her yellow polka-dot swimsuit. "I felt silly putting on this ... aquatic mu-mu in the first place, and I feel dreadfully out of place now that I can see what everyone else is wearing."
"Really?" you say. You look down at your swimsuit. The ruffled skirt only rises scandalously high (above the middle of your thighs!) because it was designed for normal Nukashuban women, who are significantly shorter than you.
The two of you head into a shop, where Rebecca bullies you into trying on an alleged swimsuit that displays ... a small amount of rounded skin above what is properly your thigh. And it comes in two separate pieces.
"I can't go out there like this," you whisper through the door of the changing room.
"Really? Let me see." Rebecca pushes into the changing room. "Hmm..." She gives you a careful look up and down, circling around you. "Looks like we grabbed a size too large," she says. "It's really hard to tell with how tall you are, but you're not actually that big around."
The correctly sized swimwear proves even more revealing.
***
Perching on the barstool, you scroll through files on your tablet, looking through yet another report on the targeting system redesign underway on the Ettin.
"More work?" Rebecca asks.
You look down at alien blonde woman with her strange ice-blue eyes standing next to you with a mojito in each hand.
"Yeah," you say. "I'm supposed to meet with the Protectorate Protection Force to talk about what sort of BattleMechs might work for their needs."
Rebecca shrugs. "As much ocean as they have here, I bet they'll want something with an underwater maneuvering unit instead of jump jets."
"Um. Yeah. Sure," you say. "Um, is one of those for me?"
"They're both for you," Rebecca says. "You need to put your tablet away and start double-fisting to catch up to me and the boys."
"The boys?" you ask.
"The boys we're going surfing with tomorrow," she tells you, waving back at the general direction of the bar. "Now stop hunching over the tablet. Back straight, boobs forward. Own your height, and quit slouching."
***
By the time you reach shore, you're covered in bruises and cuts. Your legs are shaking uncontrollably from the exertion of riding atop a surfboard. But it's worth it.
***
The PPF officer slaps you on the shoulder. "Go get 'em," he says.
You clutch the control yoke and send the wire-controlled submersible drone chasing in the megamanta's wake, watching for more pseudodunkels.
"The spearhook is the yellow button on the left side," Rebecca tells you, helpfully. "And the emergency torpedoes are the red button on the right, for when you miss your hook on the pseudodunkel."
"I'm not going to miss," you say. A heavily armored pseudodunkel appears out of nowhere, and you jam the yellow button hard. The screen lurches as the pseudodunkel tries to bite the drone. You mash the red button, and the screen fills with static. When the static clears, you can see the stunned six-meter armored piscine sinking downwards.
"Well, at least you remembered to use the torpedoes," the PPF officer says. "You see, fishing isn't so easy after all. You see how Mickeys would help?"
Rebecca smiles wickedly at you. "It's a lot easier than potting Tharkan gazelles in skiing season."
***
The sea is warm and clear blue. Beneath you, you can see schools of fish darting in the crystal waters. One school turns toward you, flashing past. Then another. You can see the ocean floor, covered in sand and coral reefs. Above you, the sky is cloudless; it's a perfect day for sailing. Rebecca peers up at you as the trimarian sailboat skims across the ocean.
"This is a lot nicer than Nukashuba," she says, sparing a glance towards the rear of the craft. "What's with that guy's extra thumb?"
"He's probably from Hefusts," you say, shrugging. "Don't stare, it's not polite."
***
General Murphy's office seems dark and boring after your time on Nuhai.
"So, what have you learned?" General Murphy asks.
"Um," you say. You're not sure you want to talk about surfing or mojitos with General Murphy. It seems undignified.
"What kind of Mickey does the PPF want?" General Murphy says. "The politicians want to help get it sorted out."
"Uh. Well, they do like dual-purpose equipment," you say. "They keep sharp with ... fishing. Uh, general sir?"
"Fishing?" General Murphy looks puzzled.
"The pseudodunkels get very large, sir general," you say. "They do practice drills with them. If we build them a BattleMech, it will need an underwater maneuvering unit," you say.
"Hm. I wonder if that's even practical with a Mickey," the general says, twisting his face into a frown.
"But how have things been going here?" You feel desperately like changing the subject.
"Oh. Fine. The engineers have been working with the targeting systems. Delta's been complaining that the new anti-missile system is throwing off the balance, but the test range accuracy is pretty good," General Murphy shrugs. "But he hasn't crashed it yet, so I figure he's probably just being picky. The engineers put it back in where the gunner's cockpit was on the original design. The heat level does kick a bit in the gunnery tests."
"Hm. Let me take it out for a drive," you say.
"Do you have any ideas about what to do with the particle cannon the Fleet bastards have unloaded on us?" General Murphy asks. "I don't want to ruin one of our good prototypes, but maybe we could stick it on one that needs reworking. Now, the new weapon from Project Beagle, maybe we could put that on the Ettin."
"New weapon?" You look skeptically at the folder that the general hands you. "This, uh, doesn't seem all that advanced."
"But effective! Project Beagle's analysts believe that since this ... Lyra Commonality? Lyran Commonwealth, right ... is a much larger star empire, they will surely have highly sophisticated electronics warfare equipment. This counters it perfectly." The general grins. "We're figuring this out, we really are."
***
You cautiously step the Ettin off the gantry. It feels like you're off-center. You know that the cockpit hasn't been moved, but it just feels like you're perched on the right shoulder of the BattleMech.
"Alright, folks, let's see how she rides," you say, opening up the throttle and putting the Ettin into a slow jog. "Little more sluggish, but nothing too strange," you say, refusing to acknowledge any sign of nervousness. "Let's see about doing a little base run, shall we?"
You pivot the Ettin quickly. It feels wrong, and you try to correct, and it's this attempt to correct the motion that sends the BattleMech slipping off its feet. Your vision blacks out momentarily as the BattleMech slams face-first into the dirt, and you sit there stunned for a moment.
"Sorry," you say, blood dripping out of your nose and onto your upper lip. "I'm okay," you say, ignoring the bloody nose, and bringing the Ettin's hands under its chest to bring the BattleMech back upwards. The Ettin's hands tear through the turf too hard to gain traction, and the cockpit thumps back down onto the turf.
"Just a bump," you say, pushing the Ettin up. "Nothing to be concerned about."
Current resources:
Research points spent: 10 out of 18 (+2 overflow)
Parts budget spent: 8.8 million N-bills out of 20 million N-bills allocated budget.
Favor level: 3
Updated Ettin quirk list:
- Inherited:
- (+5) Battle computer
- (-1) Difficult ejection
- Non-inherited:
- (+4) Improved targeting, medium (solidified)
- (special) Unstable
- (special) Poor Performance* (due to being overweight)
What new but not particularly efficient technology has Project Beagle come up with?
[] Lightweight single-shot rocket pods designed to provide overwhelming first-strike firepower.
[] Unguided small missiles designed to totally overwhelm anti-missile systems.
[] A binary large laser, half again as effective for twice the power.
[] An unguided but more powerful missile compatible with existing launch systems.
[] A cut-down version of heavy tube artillery.
Is it time to demonstrate the Ettin?
[] Yes
[] No
What should the engineering team do?
[] Take their turn at a Nuhai vacation.
[] Continue working, with ... (Write in engineering plan targeting any of Ettin, Reasonable Expectations, or Two Can Be As Bad As One.)
Note: The Ettin is now overweight, leading to the assignment of the quirk Poor Performance. The last balance check resulted in gaining the Unstable quirk.
Cyclops CP-11-N Ettin Mk IV
Mass: 92 tons
Chassis: Endo-Composite Biped
Power Plant: 360 Fusion
Cruising Speed: 43.2 kph
Maximum Speed: 59.8 kph
Armor: Standard
Armament:
4 Medium Laser
1 Anti-Missile System
1 AC/10
1 LRM 10
Features the following design quirks: Battle Computer, Difficult Ejection, Improved Targeting (medium), Unstable, Poor Performance.
Mass: 92 tons
Chassis: Endo-Composite Biped
Power Plant: 360 Fusion
Cruising Speed: 43.2 kph
Maximum Speed: 59.8 kph
Armor: Standard
Armament:
4 Medium Laser
1 Anti-Missile System
1 AC/10
1 LRM 10
| Equipment | Mass | |
|---|---|---|
| Internal Structure | Endo-Composite | 7 |
| Engine | 360 Fusion | 33 |
| Walking MP: | 4 | |
| Running MP: | 5 | |
| Jumping MP: | 0 | |
| Double Heat Sink: | 10 [20] | 0 |
| Gyro: | 4 | |
| Cockpit: | 3 | |
| Armor Factor: | 272 | 17 |
| Internal Structure | Armor Value | |
|---|---|---|
| Head | 3 | 9 |
| Center Torso | 29 | 40 |
| Center Torso (rear) | 15 | |
| R/L Torso | 19 | 28 |
| R/L Torso (rear) | 10 | |
| R/L Arm | 15 | 28 |
| R/L Leg | 19 | 38 |
Weapons and Ammo | Location | Critical | Tonnage |
|---|---|---|---|
| Chameleon Light Polarization Shield | RT/LT/RA/LA/RL/LL | 1/1/1/1/1/1 | 0 |
| 2 Medium Laser | CT | 2 | 2 |
| Armor-Piercing AC/10 Ammo (5) | RT | 1 | 1 |
| CASE | RT | 1 | 0.5 |
| AC/10 | RT | 7 | 12 |
| Medium Laser | LA | 1 | 1 |
| Armor-Piercing AC/10 Ammo (10) | LT | 2 | 2 |
| CASE | LT | 1 | 0.5 |
| Anti-Missile System Ammo (12) | LT | 1 | 1 |
| LRM 10 Ammo (12) | LT | 1 | 1 |
| LRM 10 | LT | 2 | 5 |
| Anti-Missile System | LT (Turret) | 1 | 0.5 |
| Medium Laser | RA | 1 | 1 |
Features the following design quirks: Battle Computer, Difficult Ejection, Improved Targeting (medium), Unstable, Poor Performance.
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- Location
- Across the universe
I just realized I forgot an item on the schedule. Please hold for a minute and pretend I wasn't done posting that.
- Location
- Across the universe
Okay, done now. I forgot the technology vote on Technology Under Development #2.
Obviously, we can't demonstrate this.
Easiest fix other than just undoing the AMS addition is giving up a ton of armor, which would give us the stability reroll to (probably) be able to operate again. We do have a lot of armor at 17 tons, so losing one ton wouldn't be unbearable.
Proposed platform for the PPC, for after the demo and the Ettin productionization:
Edison, named after a semi-mythical Terran figure known for electrocuting a large land animal as part of a feud with the more-famous Tesla.
Ettin's frame (CLPS included), PPC in the left arm, AC 10 in the right arm, 3 tons of AC10 ammo and a CASE in the right torso, 13 heat sinks, 14.5 tons armor. It's a testbed, but also a somewhat powerful fire support platform - and lets people compare the cannon and the prototype PPC in one chassis.
Or, less exciting but cheaper, we could pop out Reasonable Expectations' cannon setup and put the PPC in its place, and throw on some DHS to go with. It probably isn't safe to fire the PPC while running the stealth armor even with 4 DHS added... (EDIT: Maybe it's safe but rate-limited? I don't have an overheat effect table to check what going to +7 heat does, it might be tolerable with no ammo aboard.)
Two could take the same treatment, but it's full of really bad quirks. Unless there's a reason to hoard parts budget, we'd probably be better off building a new 50-tonner from scratch instead of trying to salvage Two.
Easiest fix other than just undoing the AMS addition is giving up a ton of armor, which would give us the stability reroll to (probably) be able to operate again. We do have a lot of armor at 17 tons, so losing one ton wouldn't be unbearable.
Proposed platform for the PPC, for after the demo and the Ettin productionization:
Edison, named after a semi-mythical Terran figure known for electrocuting a large land animal as part of a feud with the more-famous Tesla.
Ettin's frame (CLPS included), PPC in the left arm, AC 10 in the right arm, 3 tons of AC10 ammo and a CASE in the right torso, 13 heat sinks, 14.5 tons armor. It's a testbed, but also a somewhat powerful fire support platform - and lets people compare the cannon and the prototype PPC in one chassis.
Or, less exciting but cheaper, we could pop out Reasonable Expectations' cannon setup and put the PPC in its place, and throw on some DHS to go with. It probably isn't safe to fire the PPC while running the stealth armor even with 4 DHS added... (EDIT: Maybe it's safe but rate-limited? I don't have an overheat effect table to check what going to +7 heat does, it might be tolerable with no ammo aboard.)
Two could take the same treatment, but it's full of really bad quirks. Unless there's a reason to hoard parts budget, we'd probably be better off building a new 50-tonner from scratch instead of trying to salvage Two.
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- Location
- Across the universe
You are currently two tons overweight. 0.5 tons for AMS, 1 ton for ammunition, 0.5 tons for the turret.