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Loyalty or No SV you Are the Daedra

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Verminlord said:
He's right you know, I AM you, we both know we are never going back. You don't even want to, not really. You enjoy living, hell you even enjoy interacting with these idiots, a starving man given conversation for the first time, or something. Im not good at meta - Thats enough, you are correct, of course. Damn right he is However, your argument is flawed. I dont wish to die, but we knights of order are not designed to function at full capacity without the greymarch to support us. We NEED this power, I can control it, I may be tainted but I am still of Order. Perhaps in time the energy itself will change, or perhaps not, but right now an obelisk is required and we have in our hands a way to gain one. I will support either of the two options, but I will not allow your fear or pride to stop us becoming stronger.
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Hm.

A few further questions, if I may.

1) Does taking up this power, and tying ourselves to the monolith establish any link to Jyggalag, or other vulnerability, that could be exploited in the event of a Greymarch or the dimming of the Dragonfires?

Ultimately, fear is only a bad reason to avoid something if the fear in unjustified, or overstated. What does it benefit us to grow more powerful, but set our lifespan to ~two years. (FYI, both of those are slated to happen in around 2 years)

1a) If the above is the case, do you know any way in which we could remove or mitigate the ill-effects of the link either now or within the next two years or so?

2) Is a link to an Order Monolith something we need as a man needs food, or does it merely make us more powerful?

3) Can we use the monolith to suborn, or at least neutralise, the Knights it spawned if we do one of the options you suggest?

4) What implications does this choice have for those like myself? Siding with you in the past has reduced our proportionate influence on the behaviour of our composite.

If the power is large or necessary enough, and the drawbacks remediable enough, I could be convinced to go with you on this one, but if not, it seems an unwise move. As I said, there is a greymarch coming, and it may co-incide with an extinguishing of the Dragonfires, allowing large-scale Daedric interference on Nirn.

Any vulnerabilities that this opens us up to will be greatly magnified in two years time as Jyggalag returns and has unprecedented access to Nirn, and that has to enter into our cost/benefit analysis.


Oh, yeah, on a related note:
5) If you no longer serve the interests of Jyggag, on grounds of lethality, what are your goals now? Is it just survival, or did you have something more in mind?

Depending on what your goals are now, we may even support you in them.
 
Skewfiend said:
Hm.

A few further questions, if I may.

1) Does taking up this power, and tying ourselves to the monolith establish any link to Jyggalag, or other vulnerability, that could be exploited in the event of a Greymarch or the dimming of the Dragonfires?

Ultimately, fear is only a bad reason to avoid something if the fear in unjustified, or overstated. What does it benefit us to grow more powerful, but set our lifespan to ~two years. (FYI, both of those are slated to happen in around 2 years)

1a) If the above is the case, do you know any way in which we could remove or mitigate the ill-effects of the link either now or within the next two years or so?

2) Is a link to an Order Monolith something we need as a man needs food, or does it merely make us more powerful?

3) Can we use the monolith to suborn, or at least neutralise, the Knights it spawned if we do one of the options you suggest?

4) What implications does this choice have for those like myself? Siding with you in the past has reduced our proportionate influence on the behaviour of our composite.

If the power is large or necessary enough, and the drawbacks remediable enough, I could be convinced to go with you on this one, but if not, it seems an unwise move. As I said, there is a greymarch coming, and it may co-incide with an extinguishing of the Dragonfires, allowing large-scale Daedric interference on Nirn.

Any vulnerabilities that this opens us up to will be greatly magnified in two years time as Jyggalag returns and has unprecedented access to Nirn, and that has to enter into our cost/benefit analysis.


Oh, yeah, on a related note:
5) If you no longer serve the interests of Jyggag, on grounds of lethality, what are your goals now? Is it just survival, or did you have something more in mind?

Depending on what your goals are now, we may even support you in them.
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A good format. The below answers your questions for taking control of the smaller stream of Order. I do not know what will happen should we try to take the Heart.

1. We would gain no more link than already exists. We are made of crystallized Order, gaining more power does little to change that.
1a. I theorize that there are ways to remove our existing link, though I do not know of them. It is not something that a normal Knight would ever consider. I am aware of Daedra in the past switching their allegiance to another Lord, or becoming lone entities.
2. We will not stop existing without an Obelisk, however we will never grow. My physical form is and my mind was in stasis. Knights cannot learn new skills, become smarter or gain strength by themselves or training. Your presence in the core of my being has freed my mind to begin to change, allowing us to learn, however my physical form is still frozen. Normally only the increasing presence of Order during an advancing greymarch would allow us to grow, however I believe a more concentrated source being used purely for us will have the same effect.
3. Yes. My bothers who have already emerged from the Obelisk are tied to it and its Priest, by taking control of the Obelisk we become their Lord for all intents and purposes.
4. The power is shared between us, so no relative difference will be seen.
5. I-I-d- allow me to cover that one. Part of me, shown above, is still pretty obsessed with Order, though not necessarily old Jyggalads view on it. He doesn't really know what he wants, beyond surviving until he does, if you know what i mean. For myself, i'm in a strange position of having many often conflicting desires, mostly due to me being somewhat a mix of him and all of you. You're basically my parents, Hi Mum.
 
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Verminlord said:
A good format. The below answers your questions for taking control of the smaller stream of Order. I do not know what will happen should we try to take the Heart.

1. We would gain no more link than already exists. We are made of crystallized Order, gaining more power does little to change that.
1a. I theorize that there are ways to remove our existing link, though I do not know of them. It is not something that a normal Knight would ever consider. I am aware of Daedra in the past switching their allegiance to another Lord, or becoming lone entities.
2. We will not stop existing without an Obelisk, however we will never grow. My physical form is and my mind was in stasis. Knights cannot learn new skills, become smarter or gain strength by themselves or training. Your presence in the core of my being has freed my mind to begin to change, allowing us to learn, however my physical form is still frozen. Normally only the increasing presence of Order during an advancing greymarch would allow us to grow, however I believe a more concentrated source being used purely for us will have the same effect.
3. Yes. My bothers who have already emerged from the Obelisk are tied to it and its Priest, by taking control of the Obelisk we become their Lord for all intents and purposes.
4. The power is shared between us, so no relative difference will be seen.
5. I-I-d- allow me to cover that one. Part of me, shown above, is still pretty obsessed with Order, though not necessarily old Jyggalags view on it. He doesn't really know what he wants, beyond surviving until he does, if you know what I mean. For myself, I'm in a strange position of having many often conflicting desires, mostly due to me being somewhat a mix of him and all of you. You're basically my parents, Hi Mum.
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A clearer picture is starting to emerge.

1) What obstacles would stand in the way of you/us attempting to launch a coup d'etat?

2) How's launching a coup d'etat against Jyggalag while he sleeps sound for a long-term goal?

Something to promote some form of order, while gaining the power necessary to prevent Jyggalag from taking us out when he wakes.
 
Skewfiend said:
A clearer picture is starting to emerge.

1) What obstacles would stand in the way of you/us attempting to launch a coup d'etat?

2) How's launching a coup d'etat against Jyggalag while he sleeps sound for a long-term goal?

Something to promote some form of order, while gaining the power necessary to prevent Jyggalag from taking us out when he wakes.
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1. It is hard for me to say. My memories from before your presence are... limited. I did not think or question or ponder. I can say this however, the answer can be found in the former realm of Jyggalag, what is now known as the Shivering Isles
2. I am not opposed to the plan, though I am unsure of what I would do after. Thinking of the future is new to me. I do not understand how mortals cope with it.
 
Verminlord said:
2. I am not opposed to the plan, though I am unsure of what I would do after. Thinking of the future is new to me. I do not understand how mortals cope with it.
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Right? Of course a lot of us are abrasive at the current juncture but now you understand a part of why—all of our futures here hang in the balance, moreso now than before. It is by our bloom and wilt that we strive to find or form a better tomorrow.
 
Hmmmmm. I would normally be writing an update now but, since time zones are a thing, and at least three people are still debating with our resident Knight of Order I'm not certain I can update in good faith yet.... given those three-ish voters hanging with @Skewfiend could tip the winning vote one way or the other.

Hmmmmmmm. What do you guys think?
 
I might end up regretting this, but that seems acceptable enough for me Though I'd prefer something more nuanced than a simple 'take dah power!' option :confused: Hmm, would this discussion be considered to have happened in-universe? It would seem very OOC from us otherwise to chose to get Order power-up, I think.
 
Hastur said:
I might end up regretting this, but that seems acceptable enough for me Though I'd prefer something more nuanced than a simple 'take dah power!' option :confused: Hmm, would this discussion be considered to have happened in-universe? It would seem very OOC from us otherwise to chose to get Order power-up, I think.
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I would normally agree about the nuance thing but, uh, this isn't particularly nuanced territory... yet. If the winning vote last time had been for the potential in the obelisk or fighting there'd be much more nuance to sift through. But the cookie has crumbled and this is what we've got. Wasn't my preferred option that's for sure.

Naturally the discussions with Order-friend are all canon for the quest. Technically everything said in the thread, except for my non-update posts, happen in universe. I probably won't update tonight, it's kinda late over here now, but tomorrow I definitely will.
 
Kyrina said:
I would normally agree about the nuance thing but, uh, this isn't particularly nuanced territory... yet. If the winning vote last time had been for the potential in the obelisk or fighting there'd be much more nuance to sift through. But the cookie has crumbled and this is what we've got. Wasn't my preferred option that's for sure.

Naturally the discussions with Order-friend are all canon for the quest. Technically everything said in the thread, except for my non-update posts, happen in universe. I probably won't update tonight, it's kinda late over here now, but tomorrow I definitely will.
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A shame, but you can't win them all, after all. In any case, I change my vote to this.

[X] Take control of the thread beneath your feet
 
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    • You kneel, looking down at a reflection of your helm in polished crystal, and touch a gauntlet to the floor. The moment you focus on it the power seems to rise to the surface, becoming more intense as you reach for it... for control of it. The power beneath the throne is tempting but....

    I shall not consume an energy field larger than my own head

    That may be from an evil overlord list but the general principle applies here. A thread linked to an obelisk is an entirely different prospect than the wellspring of Order's power. Even the Order Daedra you have on hand to 'explain' things and completely veto refusing to take Order's power doesn't know what would happen if you took control of that. Better to be safe than sorry.

    You draw up the link from obelisk on Nirn and the Heart of Order, reel it in around your gauntlet, a shimmering thread of silver running through your fingers. The power within it is familiar and comforting yet at the same time wrong, it fits together too perfectly. There's nothing alive about it, there's no spark, it's just there.

    Well now it's yours.

    You tighten your grip and pull.
    Physical Stat upgrades: Unlocked
    The Knights of Order stop. The obelisk in front of you isn't the same dull grey blue crystal it was when you put your gauntlet on it. It's still on the greyer side of blue but it's much lighter than before, more like the weird cyanish hue of your armour or the colour you imagine Order-Boy's voice to be.

    That's... how does my voice have colour? Explain yourselves! Great, I'm invisible again... better work on that

    You ignore him. There's a non-zero chance you'll be hearing more from him than usual now. "Uhm... Fast? They stopped moving. Is that good?" Diana calls over one of the knight's shoulders.

    "Yeah," you stand up and stare in shock at your sword. It's... streamlined itself. Before it was jagged and a bit tarnished around the hilt and about halfway up the blade. Now it's still wicked looking and spiky as sin in places but the dark patches of tarnishing are gone and if something can look sharper your sword does.

    Huh... cool.

    I told you accepting the power of Order would only help.Oh! Oh! Lemme show you something AWESOME!

    He sounds smug. You maintain your policy of ignoring him for the moment. "I think I may have got an upgrade and...."

    There's a loud clinking and clattering. All three Knights spin on the spot to face you and salute.

    "Very cool." You raise a hand and wave it, trying to will the three Knights to do the same. They wave back at you. Diana wanders around one a touch warily, looking closely at it. Morlia's about half a step behind her, ready to grab her and get out of the way should the Knights suddenly turn hostile.

    Lucas is still out cold against one wall, he's screened by the three daedra for now but Freyja's got to be about to come around them at any moment. Sullinus has squashed himself into a corner, hands still pressed to his temples. You doubt that's a good sign since he's probably the closest thing this obelisk had to a priest.

    [ ] What do?
     
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  • Threadmarks
    • [X] Begin practicing with your new Barbershop Quartet.

    We should actually find out how much control we have over these guys. This is my way to do it musically.
     
    [X] Examine the Knights
    -[X] Declare that you are the most handsomest Order Knight ever.
    --[X] Perform synchronized dance moves.
     
    [x] Declare them as the new justice league!
    -[x] paint one of them with an S on his chest
    --[x] paint the other with a lightning on his chest
    ---[x] while the third one? give him a trident or a lasso and bracers?
    ----[x] now go and search for that black cape and act all brooding like batman!
     
    [X] Begin practicing with your new Barbershop Quartet.


    @Verminlord

    Order boy we really need to work on you're comunication skills. There's get more Knights and then theirs let's start a grey march and bring eveybeing in this world on our heads.

    We assumed you wanted the later like a dumbass. Use your words will you!
     
    Cjdavis103 said:
    [X] Begin practicing with your new Barbershop Quartet.


    @Verminlord

    Order boy we really need to work on you're comunication skills. There's get more Knights and then theirs let's start a grey march and bring eveybeing in this world on our heads.

    We assumed you wanted the later like a dumbass. Use your words will you!
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    Untill recently there was little difference to me. I have changed greatly in the small amount of time since we were summoned. I believe I will continue to change as well, though the thought is no longer as repulsive as it once was.
     
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