Vote closed
- Location
- The Usual Room
- Pronouns
- He/Him
London's Golden Dawn (A Professional Dungeon Team Is You) [On Hiatus]
- Thread starter Novus Ordo Mundi
- Start date
- Original Modern
- Location
- United States
- Pronouns
- He/Him
We don't know how not to tie. 
- Location
- Leeds
Message received:We don't know how not to tie.
[X] A 24-Room Tower. There are no rules saying the Dungeon has to be in the ground, even if almost everyone else does. Your opponents must escape each room, as they wear themselves out going up and up. Maybe you'll even make the Final Boss Fight an open air spectacle. Further votes determine the size of all the rooms.
- Location
- The Usual Room
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Morning. Just woke up. Give me a couple hours to watch Anya watch Alice in Borderland... I mean gain sustenance and get ready for the day. Totally.
[X] A 16-Room Room representation of the (Sefirot/Qliphoth), with 10 round main rooms representing the 10 (Sefirots/Shells), with the 6 smaller rooms (by 10 feet) to represent where the paths of connection cross. Further votes will determine if Sefirot or Qliphot is used, if the structure is one floor or many, and the size of the rooms.
Metrux
Gentle Demon Lord
- Location
- Brasil
Uhh... So sephirot wins? And man, I don't know, it says we can't give problems after a room has been cleared, maybe the association will make sure we deactivate whatever we actively use to slow down after they beat a room? As I said before, this seems like a rule meant to keep the offence from abusing their time in the dungeon, from taking rests and such, but differently form the 11feet corridor, I don't think we should abuse this one, it's more to our benefit to just let it be. I mean, think about the bad PR and how the divers will see it, it'll be detrimental to us in the long run, even if no punishment is given.
- Location
- The Usual Room
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Alright, got food, refreshed myself, and I am now ready to tackle another tie! Give me a bit to re-read all the argument, and make a decision. I will roll in the announcement of said decision with the next update
I'm afraid I cannot count your votes, as they were after the end of the voting period.
I'm afraid I cannot count your votes, as they were after the end of the voting period.
- Location
- The Usual Room
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Yep. A majority of your games will be divisional games. But hey, more chances for natural rivalries to form! As for loot, monsters will generally drop loot naturally. Its just the nature of Dungeons. What that loot is depends on your themes and such. You can increase loot they drop, should you so desire. Or manipulate the loot drops.
You are indeed right, the rule is meant to keep the adventurers moving. This rule was implemented after Final Dive '36, in which the Dare decided to hole up in rooms for up to an hour to cast extremely powerful spells on themselves, allowing them to beat the Five. There was a massive uproar, as you could probably figure out. Of course, some of the small market teams said the rule was just because one of the biggest markets complained real loud about it, but it was eventually accepted.
You should not be able to make an impossible dungeon. Fair play and all that. But I've seen people surprise me before.
I will also note that i'm perfectly fine with this line of discussion. It'll be interesting being the devil on the thread's proverbial shoulder who points out the abusive and particularly minmaxy ideas, while someone else serves as the angel on the other shoulder, the 'maaaaaybe we shouldn't actually do that' conscience that the thread has to decide between
I like Shoulder angels and devils! They're cute and chibi and I can put them in my shirt pockets!
- Location
- Leeds
Considering that my vote was a meme to turn it into a three way tie, I cannot possibly express how outraged I am about this decision.
Will you be flipping a coin as the tiebreaker, or counting Erehwon's anyway?
Ryumancer
Dragons Are Romance
Neither. Our GM's standard practice is to look over prior discussion, and award the vote to 'whoever put the most effort into their reasons'
That might not be a bad thing. Means there's consistently been multiple interesting, viable options.We don't know how not to tie.
Last edited:
- Location
- The Usual Room
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Yep. This is how I do things.
Update is a sub-vote, so it's going to be rather content-lite. Edit: Working on something. Please wait warmly.
Last edited:
- Location
- The Usual Room
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Hey guys, need an opinion on something. Originally, the plan was to have little connector rooms for between the longer hallways. However, I just double checked my rules, and there is nothing saying you can't just have a lot of over 10 -feet long corridors you can trap. So, I'm offering an idea. Instead of connector room, you can just have long hallways that you guys can trap. Right now, it's looking like the following Paths: Binah to Hochmah, Gevurah to Hesed, Hod to Netzah, Binah to Tif'eret, Hochmah to Tif'eret. This would give you 16, with Da'at in the middle. If you wanted, you could also extend Yesod to Malkhut.
Thoughts?
EDIT: I also just remembered to recheck Ryumancer's suggestion. It's... actually better then what I was thinking. I'm going with that.
Thoughts?
EDIT: I also just remembered to recheck Ryumancer's suggestion. It's... actually better then what I was thinking. I'm going with that.
Last edited:
Ryumancer
Dragons Are Romance
That's, uh, basically what i thought you meant from the start? It's certainly how my suggested 24-room version of the Sefirot/Qlippoth layout is intended, albeit still using multiple 'crossroads' portions where segments of paths overlap. It does mean something like the Keter-Tif'eret hall is split across three rooms that ALSO contain portions of the Paths you just mentioned, but... lemme see if i can optimize it so we actually get all Paths (and Da'at) without weird crossroad setups where we have to isolate paths with barriers and such. I'll also draw up a proper diagram of my previous All-path, all-sphere 24 room setup, for comparison. After i eat dinner, anyways.
We may also want to finalize a consistent method of referring to each sphere, having so many different possible spellings will confuse people
Last edited:
Metrux
Gentle Demon Lord
- Location
- Brasil
I... Don't know. Lot's of long hallways that can be trapped, they'd get sussed out pretty fast, no? Unless we didn't use all of them, and made like a random group active for any one dive... But after a while people would still know which ones can and can't be trapped anyway, so it wouldn't help much in the long run, especially since I don't think we can change our dungeon very easily, even after we get to second year big changes should be hard (I guess)... Oh well, I'm not partial to any side, feel free to do as you like :B
Actually, Ryu can probably make the plans for that, I totally throw my weight behind his/her/their choice in this regard
- Location
- The Usual Room
- Pronouns
- He/Him
You're going to find I'm... a bit scatterbrained in my thoughts, and not the best with words. Please bear with me.
However, I believe with making each room 20 feet high, there will be no crossroad setups, with 9.5 feet high corridors and a foot of dirt between where they would cross. That should do the trick, as Da'at will probably be the Lair (It will be voted on, but even if it loses Da'at would be a room normally anyways.)
We may also want to finalize a consistent method of referring to each sphere, having so many different possible spellings will confuse people
True. If it is a Sefirot or a Shell depends on if Sefirot or Qlippoht wins. I will probably use Wikipedia for the spelling, like I do for a lot of things.
Ryumancer
Dragons Are Romance
See now, i think, even relying on Wikipedia, you've actually said a couple of different spellings already for a couple of different spheres lol.You're going to find I'm... a bit scatterbrained in my thoughts, and not the best with words. Please bear with me.
However, I believe with making each room 20 feet high, there will be no crossroad setups, with 9.5 feet high corridors and a foot of dirt between where they would cross. That should do the trick, as Da'at will probably be the Lair (It will be voted on, but even if it loses Da'at would be a room normally anyways.)
True. If it is a Sefirot or a Shell depends on if Sefirot or Qlippoht wins. I will probably use Wikipedia for the spelling, like I do for a lot of things.
As far as your room layout... that's basically what i'm thinking, but i figured setting up a magic barrier would be less likely to count as a 'separate room', while still keeping the Paths in the 'crossroad' separated.
As far as Sphere/Path naming again though, honestly, might be easier to just do it like i did in my earlier, shitty table diagram, referring to Sphere rooms as numbers and Path rooms as letters, that way it doesn't matter what the various spellings for each Sefirot and Shell are
- Location
- The Usual Room
- Pronouns
- He/Him
See now, i think, even relying on Wikipedia, you've actually said a couple of different spellings already for a couple of different spheres lol.
As far as your room layout... that's basically what i'm thinking, but i figured setting up a magic barrier would be less likely to count as a 'separate room', while still keeping the Paths in the 'crossroad' separated.
As far as Sphere/Path naming again though, honestly, might be easier to just do it like i did in my earlier, shitty table diagram, referring to Sphere rooms as numbers and Path rooms as letters, that way it doesn't matter what the various spellings for each Sefirot and Shell are
Yep. It's less a Magic Barrier and more Dirt keeping the sections separate. And as for rooms and paths, it'll be numbered/lettered, though I will still probably put the proper title as well, because some people will refer to it that way.
Also, while I have you here, I found this for the Qlippoth. It's a bit different from the Sefiroth. Thoughts?
Ryumancer
Dragons Are Romance
holy heck, a proper demonology for the Qlippoth. I've been meaning to look for one of those. The resolution on it makes it a bit... hard to read though, so please send me the actual page it's on, if you can? I will admit in having made a reasonable mistake in assuming they were the same solely because they're supposed to be inverse of each other, but on the other hand, it's still the same number of spheres and paths, so that just means minor adjustments to the diagrams i'm about to make, no major issue.
- Location
- The Usual Room
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Unfortunately, its on Pinterest, so I have no idea what page that is. I saw multiple similar ones, so I will check other images for better resolution. Please wait warmly.
And yeah, Wikipedia did not help on the confusion.
Expansion Team Creation III - Subvote - S / Q Fiddly Bits
- Location
- The Usual Room
- Pronouns
- He/Him
So, after consideration, and reading the arguments and discussion for each one, I feel the Sephiroth/Qlippoth vote gets the nod. Also, thanks to @Ryumancer for a lot of help! Now, in an attempt to only need one subvote for this, we'll go through the major issues all at once. If all goes well, we'll have one last vote on your character, then we can start the Off-Season! Remember to vote as a plan
So, first up, which theme are you using? The Sefiroth, or the Qlippoth? This also determines the name of your dungeon, if you choose not to sell naming rights.
[] The Sefiroth
[] The Qlippoth
Now, the next question. Does the Dungeon have one floor, or many?
[] The dungeon is one floor. (The S/Q is horizontal)
[] The dungeon is multiple floors. (The S/Q is vertical)
Next, is the dungeon above or below ground? This may matter in certain things, so keep this in mind.
[] Above
[] Below
[] Half and Half
[] Keter Above, The rest below
What is the general size for all of your Serifot/Shells? Remember, the bigger the room, the more mana it uses, but the more monsters it can hold, the more traps, and bigger/harder challenges. Either way, the height will be 20 Feet
[] 30 X 30 (1 Mana)
[] 40 X 40 (2 Mana)
[] 50 X 50 (4 Mana)
[] 60 X 60 (8 Mana)
[] 70 X 70 (16 Mana)
[] 80 X 80 (32 Mana)
Where is the entrance?
[] Attached to Keter/Thamiel (highest)
[] Attached to Malkuth/Lilith (lowest)
Where is the lair?
[] At Da'at
[] At Keter/Thamiel (cannot be the case if the entrance is attached here)
[] At Malkuth/Lilith (cannot be the case if the entrance is attached here)
So, first up, which theme are you using? The Sefiroth, or the Qlippoth? This also determines the name of your dungeon, if you choose not to sell naming rights.
[] The Sefiroth
[] The Qlippoth
Now, the next question. Does the Dungeon have one floor, or many?
[] The dungeon is one floor. (The S/Q is horizontal)
[] The dungeon is multiple floors. (The S/Q is vertical)
Next, is the dungeon above or below ground? This may matter in certain things, so keep this in mind.
[] Above
[] Below
[] Half and Half
[] Keter Above, The rest below
What is the general size for all of your Serifot/Shells? Remember, the bigger the room, the more mana it uses, but the more monsters it can hold, the more traps, and bigger/harder challenges. Either way, the height will be 20 Feet
[] 30 X 30 (1 Mana)
[] 40 X 40 (2 Mana)
[] 50 X 50 (4 Mana)
[] 60 X 60 (8 Mana)
[] 70 X 70 (16 Mana)
[] 80 X 80 (32 Mana)
Where is the entrance?
[] Attached to Keter/Thamiel (highest)
[] Attached to Malkuth/Lilith (lowest)
Where is the lair?
[] At Da'at
[] At Keter/Thamiel (cannot be the case if the entrance is attached here)
[] At Malkuth/Lilith (cannot be the case if the entrance is attached here)
Last edited:
- Location
- United States
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Would it be possible to have part of it below ground and other parts above if we have multiple floors? Like say play into the idea proposed by the tower design, where perhaps the lair ends up above the ground and could be publically viewed, but for adventurers to get there they need to go through the underground portions of the dungeon first?
- Location
- The Usual Room
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I don't see why not. I'll throw in a half and half option
Ryumancer
Dragons Are Romance
Ok so, i do have a slight problem with the height thing, because it doesn't quite work if we're going vertical (We may need a lot of mega tall, thin rooms basically), but other than that, the models are coming along nicely.
I'll abstain from voting for now, but initial observations...
Sefirot vs Qlippoth. Good vs Evil, may affect our public image somewhat, Sefirot is somewhat harder to design for because the Qlippoth actually has thematic trials/puzzles and monsters already built into it's Shells (ie, Sathariel, which corresponds to the Sefirot Binah. Whereas Binah is 'giving spiritual things form', Sathariel is 'concealing the spirit of things', which leads nicely into a 'use clues around the room to derive the answer to a riddle/puzzle' type trial).
Horizontal vs Vertical. Personal preference is vertical, both for thematic reasons and design reasons, but it admittedly doesn't matter a whole lot. Above vs Below vs Half is also mostly a matter of personal preference, though it's likely less resource intensive to hollow spaces out belowground to form rooms than it would be to generate or build new rooms as a tower. On the other hand, aboveground means we can do open-air portions, which is just nice. Half-and-half may well be the best of both worlds, honestly.
Room size. I can't super comment on it before we start actually budgeting for monsters and traps and whatnot. Bigger feels like it's better, since it allows us more stuff, but in terms of difficulty, small can be difficult too, and in terms of budget, i half suspect diminishing returns, or at least the largest room sizes to cost enough that we can't actually afford to fill them all properly.
Entrance. Doesn't matter too much, honestly. From a thematics perspective, Divine Light enters through Keter and is gradually transformed into the physical world, Malkuth, but on the other hand, ascending the tree starting from Malkuth and ending in Keter is a 'journey of enlightenment' type deal. Both work fine, only practical concern is that if we choose Vertical+Above+Keter, or Vertical+Below+Malkuth, or Vertical+Half, we'll probably have to build an elevator to make our entrance realistically accessible.
Lair. If our entrance is Malkuth, having Keter be our lair represents the end of the journey. If we have Keter as our entrance, having Malkuth as our lair represents the final state of the process. Da'at on the other hand... it's a state of complete unity that exists in both the Sefirot AND the Qlippoth, and is thus a fitting endpoint regardless of entrance (though it requires backtracking a bit if Keter's our entrance). If we go Sefirot, it gives us the opportunity to create a cool boss representing Divine Light and a unification of our entire dungeon. If we go Qlippoth, then we can create Coronzon, the Demon of Dispersion and a representation of formless chaos, which is also a potentially interesting final boss. Similarly, if we do Keter/Thamiel as our endpoint, we get either Archangel Metatron or literally Satan as our final boss, and if Malkuth is our endpoint, we get Archangel Sandalphon, and it seems our GM is deciding to use the interpretation that has Lilith as the demon associated with the Qlippoth counterpart of Malkuth, which is all well and good because it's depicted kinda inconsistently.
On a completely unrelated note, i now have to wonder if anyone's ever attempted turning their dungeon into a space elevator. Would actually be kinda freaking cool if Dungeons actually managed to make that kinda thing feasible early.
I'll abstain from voting for now, but initial observations...
Sefirot vs Qlippoth. Good vs Evil, may affect our public image somewhat, Sefirot is somewhat harder to design for because the Qlippoth actually has thematic trials/puzzles and monsters already built into it's Shells (ie, Sathariel, which corresponds to the Sefirot Binah. Whereas Binah is 'giving spiritual things form', Sathariel is 'concealing the spirit of things', which leads nicely into a 'use clues around the room to derive the answer to a riddle/puzzle' type trial).
Horizontal vs Vertical. Personal preference is vertical, both for thematic reasons and design reasons, but it admittedly doesn't matter a whole lot. Above vs Below vs Half is also mostly a matter of personal preference, though it's likely less resource intensive to hollow spaces out belowground to form rooms than it would be to generate or build new rooms as a tower. On the other hand, aboveground means we can do open-air portions, which is just nice. Half-and-half may well be the best of both worlds, honestly.
Room size. I can't super comment on it before we start actually budgeting for monsters and traps and whatnot. Bigger feels like it's better, since it allows us more stuff, but in terms of difficulty, small can be difficult too, and in terms of budget, i half suspect diminishing returns, or at least the largest room sizes to cost enough that we can't actually afford to fill them all properly.
Entrance. Doesn't matter too much, honestly. From a thematics perspective, Divine Light enters through Keter and is gradually transformed into the physical world, Malkuth, but on the other hand, ascending the tree starting from Malkuth and ending in Keter is a 'journey of enlightenment' type deal. Both work fine, only practical concern is that if we choose Vertical+Above+Keter, or Vertical+Below+Malkuth, or Vertical+Half, we'll probably have to build an elevator to make our entrance realistically accessible.
Lair. If our entrance is Malkuth, having Keter be our lair represents the end of the journey. If we have Keter as our entrance, having Malkuth as our lair represents the final state of the process. Da'at on the other hand... it's a state of complete unity that exists in both the Sefirot AND the Qlippoth, and is thus a fitting endpoint regardless of entrance (though it requires backtracking a bit if Keter's our entrance). If we go Sefirot, it gives us the opportunity to create a cool boss representing Divine Light and a unification of our entire dungeon. If we go Qlippoth, then we can create Coronzon, the Demon of Dispersion and a representation of formless chaos, which is also a potentially interesting final boss. Similarly, if we do Keter/Thamiel as our endpoint, we get either Archangel Metatron or literally Satan as our final boss, and if Malkuth is our endpoint, we get Archangel Sandalphon, and it seems our GM is deciding to use the interpretation that has Lilith as the demon associated with the Qlippoth counterpart of Malkuth, which is all well and good because it's depicted kinda inconsistently.
On a completely unrelated note, i now have to wonder if anyone's ever attempted turning their dungeon into a space elevator. Would actually be kinda freaking cool if Dungeons actually managed to make that kinda thing feasible early.
Last edited:
NinetyNineLies
Memento Vivere
- Location
- Dreamland
- Pronouns
- He/They
[X] Plan Hero's Journey
-[X] The Qlippoth
-[X] The dungeon is multiple floors. (The S/Q is vertical)
-[X] Keter Above, The rest below
-[X] 50 X 50 (4 Mana)
-[X] Attached to Keter/Thamiel (highest)
-[X] At Da'at
As the obstacles the adventurers have to overcome, it makes more sense for us to be the Qlippoth that hinders humanity. As Qlippoth, the descent from Thamiel that symbolize the flaw of God into the deepest part and surviving makes more sense thematically, survival from the fall of the spirit into the whispering temptation of Nehemoth rather than the other way around. The lair at the Da'at would thematically mean the rise back up, since it's located near Keter/Thamiel, symbolizing the survival through Qlippoth and the near-return to Keter/Thamiel.
Edit: Just saw the vote as plan.
-[X] The Qlippoth
-[X] The dungeon is multiple floors. (The S/Q is vertical)
-[X] Keter Above, The rest below
-[X] 50 X 50 (4 Mana)
-[X] Attached to Keter/Thamiel (highest)
-[X] At Da'at
As the obstacles the adventurers have to overcome, it makes more sense for us to be the Qlippoth that hinders humanity. As Qlippoth, the descent from Thamiel that symbolize the flaw of God into the deepest part and surviving makes more sense thematically, survival from the fall of the spirit into the whispering temptation of Nehemoth rather than the other way around. The lair at the Da'at would thematically mean the rise back up, since it's located near Keter/Thamiel, symbolizing the survival through Qlippoth and the near-return to Keter/Thamiel.
Edit: Just saw the vote as plan.
Last edited: