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London's Golden Dawn (A Professional Dungeon Team Is You) [On Hiatus]

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Morning! Busy day today, as I have to hunt for food! Don't laugh, those TV Dinners are hard to hunt!

Ryumancer said:
Hmm... here's a few more potential rules questions.

Is there any limit to the number of floors a dungeon can have, beyond the room limit? As an extension of this, would a tower/pit of one room per floor be allowed, if the Owner felt there was a reason to design their dungeon like that?

Do long corridors count against the room limit/have their own size limits?

Are there any restrictions on room size or what qualifies/doesn't qualify as a room?

In a one or two floor dungeon, is there anything preventing someone from placing all three allowed bosses in a single room?

Similarly, is there anything restricting an offense team from summoning something powerful enough to be a boss, assuming people capable of such feats exist?

Are there any limits against 'Collect things from around the dungeon, which together will serve as the key to the Final Boss chamber'? Such as, in a Sephirot-shaped dungeon, spreading a full deck of tarot cards across each Sphere (10 Rooms, Numbered Minor Arcana, Court cards) and Path (22 Hallways, Major Arcana) and having the door to the Final Boss room only open if you collect every card from the dungeon?
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Just as a heads up, I will be writing up the rules as I have time. But these are some good question. In order.

1 - There is no limit to the floors, good catch! And while almost all dungeons in the NDDA are below ground (The Revival and the Streetbrewers are exceptions), there is no rule saying it must be. You could make a tower, should you so desire. Or a clock tower, since you are in London. :D

2 - They have their own size limits. If a corridor is past 10 feet, it counts as its own room. However, non-room corridors are suppose to be "safe spaces" to start off with. This does not apply if they try and turtle up in said corridor

3 - Room size is unlimited per se, however building bigger rooms takes up more mana, and there is a mana cap for what you can use in a Season, and in a particular Dive.

4 - One boss per room. However, multiple people, creatures, or things could count as "One Boss". That's admittedly up to League Discretion on each circumstance.

5 - If the caster can summon it, and it won't break the dungeon, it's generally allowed. However, Summoning without items burns particular stats depending on the type, strength, and amount of summons. For a Boss Vs. Boss situation? It'd depend. And there is a cap on how much mana the Dungeon can use to improve the Offense (The Offensive Cap is separate from the Defensive Cap), so the Dungeon can't just boost someone's Soul or Mind to crazy degrees without shortchanging someone.

6 - There is no limit, other then mana. It does generate mana to create traps and challenges, depending on the situation.
 
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Novus Ordo Mundi said:
Morning! Busy day today, as I have to hunt for food! Don't laugh, those TV Dinners are hard to hunt!



Just as a heads up, I will be writing up the rules as I have time. But these are some good question. In order.

1 - There is no limit to the floors, good catch! And while almost all dungeons in the NDDA are below ground (The Revival and the Streetbrewers are exceptions), there is no rule saying it must be. You could make a tower, should you so desire. Or a clock tower, since you are in London. :D

2 - They have their own size limits. If a corridor is past 10 feet, it counts as its own room. However, non-room corridors are suppose to be "safe spaces" to start off with. This does not apply if they try and turtle up in said corridor

3 - Room size is unlimited per se, however building bigger rooms takes up more mana, and there is a mana cap for what you can use in a Season, and in a particular Dive.

4 - One boss per room. However, multiple people, creatures, or things could count as "One Boss". That's admittedly up to League Discretion on each circumstance.

5 - If the caster can summon it, and it won't break the dungeon, it's generally allowed. However, Summoning without items burns particular stats depending on the type, strength, and amount of summons. For a Boss Vs. Boss situation? It'd depend. And there is a cap on how much mana the Dungeon can use to improve the Offense (The Offensive Cap is separate from the Defensive Cap), so the Dungeon can't just boost someone's Soul or Mind to crazy degrees without shortchanging someone.

6 - There is no limit, other then mana. It does generate mana to create traps and challenges, depending on the situation.
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You know, all of this makes a trap maker build even better. If you think about it, we'd be able to do more effective traps with less mana usage, having almost no corridors because floors, we can exploit the room sizes for the traps, including in the boss arenas, especially if our boss is immune or highly effective against the traps. Really, it just makes me whanna do a trap build more and more, not only because it's fun, but it'll be effective, we'll need constant inovation and it's something apparently no one is doing right now, which kinda also makes us an underdog, in the sense no one will think they'll loose to "that one guy who focus on traps". This all only leaves a small problem with offensive, but if we focus all our best players on offensive, we can still get good, without loosing much in defense. Win-win?
 
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NDDA Rules - The Dungeon
  • Informational
    • Alright, here is the NDDA Rules for Dungeons during Dives. This is not final, and values may change. Keep that in mind. If you think something should be changed, let me know! Until the season officially starts, I can change things pretty easy.

    --

    The Dungeon

    Each team will have an Association approved Dungeon for the purposes of Association play. A Dungeon is approved if it follows the following code. This does not apply to non-Association play, such as seating, non-Association business, offices, ect., unless otherwise noted. Numbers in parenthesis () apply only to Final Dive

    All Dungeons will have a Mana Cap of 1200 Mana worth of improvements, traps, and creatures, in any manner, in a season, with 700 (1200) Mana worth of improvements active during any one Dive. This does not include improvement on the Final Boss, and counts half of improvements on Bosses

    All Dungeons can contain no less than 16 (28), and no more than 24 (36), active rooms during any one Dive, not counting connecting corridors or stairwells of 10 feet or less. This limit does not apply to the Lair or the Entrance. A non-room corridor must not be able to fit two unmodified Humans side by side, and cannot have traps or monsters in that location. A Dungeon may have any number of floors, provided it does not violate other Association or local rules.

    All Dungeons will have An Entrance. The Offense will start within this location. This location must be at least 20 feet in all directions, and be free of traps and monsters. It may be decorated as the Core sees fit, at the NDDA's expense, provided it does not violate rules

    All Dungeons will have a Lair. The Final Boss must stay inside this Lair during a Dive, This location must be at least 30 feet in all directions, with at least 20 feet worth of non-lethal floor. It may be decorated as the Core and Final Boss sees fit, at their own expense.

    All Dungeons must have a Dungeon Core Room. This is where the Dungeon Core resides. It must be free of monsters and traps, and must reside on a pedestal not to exceed 5 feet. The Core must be free to access, with nothing to restrict a person from touching it. It may be decorated as the Core sees fit, at the NDDA's expense, provided it does not violate rules

    All Dungeons must have a Final Boss. The Final Boss must represent the identity of the team, and will be crafted with the help of the NDDA. The Dungeon Core may choose to be the Final Boss themselves, may craft one from Mana, or may sign an Adventurer to a Contract. If an Adventurer is signed, or choose to be the Final Boss yourself, you may improve them up to the triple the Adventurer Mana Cap. If a Final Boss is crafted, it must be sapient, sentient, and be given all rights guaranteed to it by local laws. All improvements are not counted on the Defense Cap. A Final Boss may have up to three different Forms at any one Dive, though they may share improvements. These forms must be different to a notable degree. A Final Boss may have up to 75 (150) Mana worth of creatures or traps with it at any one Dive

    All Dungeons may have up to 5 Bosses during a season, and cannot change Bosses during a Season without permission from the Association. A Dungeon may field no more than 3 (5) Bosses during a Dive. The Dungeon Core may craft one or more from Mana, or may sign an Adventurer to a Contract. If one or more Adventurers are signed, you may improve them up to the double the Adventurer Mana Cap collectively. Half of those improvements are counted against the Defense Cap. If a Boss is crafted, and it can think for itself, it must be given all rights guaranteed to it by local laws. A Boss cannot start in a room or floor that contains another Boss, unless the number of floors is smaller then the number of Bosses. A Boss cannot leave the room they start at, unless there is a mechanism that would allow it, and is Association approved. A Boss may have up to 30 (60) Mana worth of creatures and traps with it at any one Dive.

    All Dungeons may have any number of traps and creatures within it, provided they do not violate the rules. They must reflect the identity of the team in a reasonable fashion, at the discretion of the Association.
     
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  • Informational
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    Vote closed
  • Voting
    • Scheduled vote count started by Novus Ordo Mundi on Jan 20, 2021 at 7:36 PM, finished with 36 posts and 18 votes.
    • [X] Plan Innovation
      -[X] Mr Robin Huntsman
      -[X] I think a few of them were worried about you being more into traps and challenges then monsters. Sure, the monsters and Bosses sell the Defensive side of the game, but I remember 'ol Beannose getting his head caved in between two logs to end Final Dive '45. Even he thought it was the funniest thing ever. Hell, we need more of that, and I couldn't think of a better person then you. (You are a former trap designer turned owner. You prefer traps and challenges to monsters, and can create interesting and fiendish designs. Sure, you'll have to change them up every so often, but that's fun in and of itself. Not to mention you have business contacts on both sides of the Dive that would love to work with traps. You will be considered an oddity in the Association, but that also comes with its own perks)
      -[X] The Major Tarot I - Magician (Team Colors - Gold / Dark Red)
      [X] Plan Bones of Divinity
      -[X] David Facilier
      -[X] Between you and me, I think Sinclair is nervous about your dungeoning and training in Japan. He already bitches about the so-called "waifu problem" in San Fran. Mixing what you know with the Golden Dawn - I know you got inspiration from the Hermetic Order, but I didn't expect you to be that on the nose about it - freaks him out. I say go all in. Fuck Sinclair. (You know a lot about Asian spiritualism, and plan to combine it with magic and theurgy to bring various gods notice to London. You're also friendly with lots of priests, rabbis, imams, and others of a spiritual bent. Sinclair, owner of the Austin Revival, will not like you. But you will have an ally in Doctor Jedediah Feelgood, the owner of the San Francisco Virtual.
      -[X] A Sun Rising Over Water (Team Colors - Gold / Blue)
      [X] Plan Royal
      -[X] Mr. Abdul Gaumond
      -[X] I think most of them are more annoyed that you were given the team by the Queen. Sure, The Eternal Queen frightens many Americans, but that's just their bias against necromancy talking. Or their distrust of royalty. Either or. But you've proven your worth enough to satisfy them. (You are an adopted member of the Royal Family, and have been given ownership of the team by Her. You have access to all that the Royals have for this, including things that belong to the Royal Catacombs. However, you still answer to the Queen, more than most. You must make sure she remains happy and keep the team clean for scandal as best as you can.)
      -[X] An Ankh (Team Colors - Gold / White)
      [X] plan the people's champ!
      -[x] ms alexa harvey.
      -[x] Granted, most of the owners didn't like the idea of the "Become-An-Owner" sweepstakes at first, but look at all the money and ratings that brought in! That shut them up real quick. That it also brought in a loyal down on their luck Londoner like you was also good publicity. Not to mention you're actually a good person (You won the 30th Anniversary Become An Owner Sweepstakes, brining you up from chimney-sweeper to owner of a NDDA Franchise! You respect hard work and doing the right thing, which will affect your signings. You're a feel-good story that has all of London loyal for you at the start. You may not know too much about dungeon diving, but that you can make it work with some grit, determination, and innovation)
      -[X] A Sun Rising Over Water (Team Colors - Gold / Blue)
      [X] Plan Fate Waifu/Order
      -[X] Ms. Elizabeth Westcott
      -[X] Between you and me, I think Sinclair is nervous about your dungeoning and training in Japan. He already bitches about the so-called "waifu problem" in San Fran. Mixing what you know with the Golden Dawn - I know you got inspiration from the Hermetic Order, but I didn't expect you to be that on the nose about it - freaks him out. I say go all in. Fuck Sinclair. (You know a lot about Asian spiritualism, and plan to combine it with magic and theurgy to bring various gods notice to London. You're also friendly with lots of priests, rabbis, imams, and others of a spiritual bent. Sinclair, owner of the Austin Revival, will not like you. But you will have an ally in Doctor Jedediah Feelgood, the owner of the San Francisco Virtual.
      -[X] The Rose Cross of the Golden Dawn (Team Colors - Rose / Gold)
      [X] Plan Pure Magic
      -[X]Mr Veritas Paxion
      -[X] I think a few of them were worried about you being more into traps and challenges then monsters. Sure, the monsters and Bosses sell the Defensive side of the game, but I remember 'ol Beannose getting his head caved in between two logs to end Final Dive '45. Even he thought it was the funniest thing ever. Hell, we need more of that, and I couldn't think of a better person then you. (You are a former trap designer turned owner. You prefer traps and challenges to monsters, and can create interesting and fiendish designs. Sure, you'll have to change them up every so often, but that's fun in and of itself. Not to mention you have business contacts on both sides of the Dive that would love to work with traps. You will be considered an oddity in the Association, but that also comes with its own perks)
      -[X] Three Pairs of Wings with a Sephiroth (Team Colors - Gold / White)
      [X] High Society
      -[X] Ms. Dahlia Warwick
      -[X] Sure, some of the cheaper owners were worried that you'd just throw your money around. But if they were that concerned about that, they would have voted for a salary cap back in '45. Besides, having a child of one of the wealthiest individuals as an owner is good for our image (You are very wealthy, very beautiful, and very social. Your name is extremely well known, and you know how to use and leverage it. Many of the owners (though not all) will be able to deal with you better in the beginning, also generally being rich. Also, your parents will be interested in your team.)
      -[X] The Major Tarot I - Magician (Team Colors - Gold / Dark Red)
      [x] Plan All You Need Is Confidence
      -[x] Mr. John Arc
      -[x] Granted, most of the owners didn't like the idea of the "Become-An-Owner" sweepstakes at first, but look at all the money and ratings that brought in! That shut them up real quick. That it also brought in a loyal down on their luck Londoner like you was also good publicity. Not to mention you're actually a good person (You won the 30th Anniversary Become An Owner Sweepstakes, brining you up from chimney-sweeper to owner of a NDDA Franchise! You respect hard work and doing the right thing, which will affect your signings. You're a feel-good story that has all of London loyal for you at the start. You may not know too much about dungeon diving, but that you can make it work with some grit, determination, and innovation)
      -[X] The Rose Cross of the Golden Dawn (Team Colors - Rose / Gold)
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  • Voting
    • Holy shit it actually worked! Which is good, because I was too busy listening to a live Brunch stream by Pavolia Reine to remember to close the vote.

    Huh, a tie. Give me a few minutes to consider what to do. I've got a couple ideas.
     
    Alright, I have come to a decision regarding the matter. In this matter, with a tie for first place and no clear cut favorite otherwise in the main category I would look at, I will go with whoever had written the most consideration of the vote at hand or best argument for their chosen selection. That goes to @Ryumancer

    Plan Innovation Wins Via QM Judgment. Update hopefully within the next 24 Hours. Please Wait Warmly...
     
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    Expansion Team Creation II - Subvote A - The Fate of David Facilier
  • Threadmarks
    • Alright, while I write up the next section, which will involve the Dungeon itself, I do have a proposition for you. Something to keep things active.

    David Facilier, while he ends up being the loser in this vote, is still an interesting enough person that I'd be interested in using him for something else. And, as he did well enough to hold the lead until the last hours of the vote, I will give you first crack at him. You may hire him in a position on your team. He will keep his spiritual bent and traits with him, though how much that influences the team depends on certain factors. How much Sinclair and Feelgood feel about you depend on how high a position you give him.

    [] You hire David Facilier as General Manager on a pretty good deal. (If you choose this, or anyone other then yourself for GM, the GM will handle most of the player and coach transactions instead of you voting on it, unless it is important enough to intervene personally. However, you will have the final say as the Owner, and must still approve the Starting Roster.)

    [] You hire David Facilier as an Adventurer on a pretty good deal. (He will be part of the Offense that will head into the Dungeon. He is well trained in Japanese spiritual arts, which may be useful in certain dungeons.)

    [] You Contract David Facilier as a Boss (He will be one of the five Bosses on your Starting Roster for Five Years. How he is used will be decided later.)

    [] You choose not to hire David Facilier (He will be a free Adventurer for the League to grab.)
     
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  • Threadmarks
    • [X] You hire David Facilier as an Adventurer on a pretty good deal. (He will be part of the Offense that will head into the Dungeon. He is well trained in Japanese spiritual arts, which may be useful in certain dungeons.)

    My inner weebo says fuck yeah!
     
    [X] You Contract David Facilier as a Boss (He will be one of the five Bosses on your Starting Roster for Five Years. How he is used will be decided later.)


    Right now. We have 4 choices.

    A) General Manager, Frankly speaking right now having anyone else be a General Manager will allow for less free choice. In my opinion a bad move.
    B) This one I feel is the second best option. He will be added well enough, however My limited knowledge in the Japanese spiritual arts makes me believe he won't be as useful in most dungeons then a regular adventurer assuming he is around the same power level. In fact if he was given in an adventurer list I doubt it would be a worthwhile pick. However, It is still the second best option in incorporating him.
    C) Boss Type. This is the second most influential spot realistically. It adds a solid defense, Japanese Spiritual arts from what I'm aware are best used in defensive measures, and aren't as good as adventures in the first place. This makes me believe allowing him to properly prepare his defenses should give the most distinct advantage, and add another layer to the type of traps we can probably pull off. In this case Japanese ward types.
    D) This feels wrong, because that guy was voted for by other players, It would be wrong to drop him when we're given the option not to. While not in the position they wanted it is a conciliation prize which I feel they deserve.

    It's been a long time so my argument type abilities are likely not as good as they were, but hopefully this shows my thought process.
     
    So, another quick analysis.

    As General Manager, it would likely free up some time in-character for more dungeon/trap designing. He's also probably quite decent at social, within his sphere of influence (spiritually inclined individuals, potentially otaku). It's not a bad choice, though it does specialize us even further, and the reputation penalty in regards to anti-religious/anti-weeb culture people may or may not be something we care about, and as Owner, it's definitely something we can angle more neutrally given enough time ('We hired him because we felt he was charismatic and competent, rather than spiritual reasons'). It does, as Totadile mentions, leave us with less free choice though.

    As adventurer... we don't know enough about what 'Japanese spiritual arts' classifies as in regards to his abilities as an adventurer. A magic user certainly, likely a summoner or channeler of Yokai or minor Gods, could be offense focused, could be defense focused, could be buffing/debuffing focused. We just don't know. He's probably a decent backliner, though his spiritual bent may result in conflicts of personality on the team if we're not careful who else we hire. We now know, courtesy of the GM. Ritual Mage, or in other words, 'requires resources and prep time an offense team member isn't likely to have'. Jack of all-trades, master of none, AND forced to eat penalties to speed-cast if he wants to realistically participate in combat, making him less than stellar. Considering his rituals are explicitly Japanese-style, it means he's not even necessarily as good at disarming magic based traps and curses as a more generalist Ritual Mage would be*. This is no longer an option worth considering.

    As a boss... with more power, he'd be able to leverage more powerful summons (including 'things to channel'), more things to summon, and wards and whatnot. However, being a more prestigious spot on the team nets us some of the reputation penalty with very little of the social benefits, and if we're using rituals based on Hermeticism and the Kabbala, we'd have to be careful that his wards don't interfere with ours, and that our angels and demons don't take offense to his Yokai, minor gods, and other spirits (and vice versa).

    Leaving him for the rest of the league... eh. I think he'd either be stuck in side character hell, completely irrelevant to us... or land a job at San Fran Virtual and become a fairly strong foe. It's either a shame for the people who voted for 'em, or a pain in the ass for our Robin.

    Not sure which I favor right now, honestly. I'll vote later, i suppose.

    In the meantime, can we get a bit of clarification on the matter, @Novus Ordo Mundi ?
     
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    Novus Ordo Mundi said:
    Sure. What do you need clarification on?
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    What exactly we can expect out of David? 'Asian Spiritualism' could be a fair handful of different things, and even the most likely options still leave a wide, wide array of possible builds (He could be an Onmyouji elementalist or diviner or exorcist, or a crowd control nature summoner, or offensive or defensive mook summoner, or frontline channeler using a War God or powerful Yokai, or a buffer/debuffer, or a bunch of other things)

    (Edit-ping cough @Novus Ordo Mundi i summon ye)
     
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