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Lieutenant General Gundam

Triggerhappy said:
Edit - Anyways just binged the new miniseries on Netflix. The plot and dialogue is about as cliche as it gets. But the action was great. And I do absolutely LOVE the way the Gundam was treated as a horror movie antagonist for the first four episodes.
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I also loved the Gundam's movement, made it really clear how much it was a technological breakthrough in terms of MS technology.

Triggerhappy said:
I'd need to watch it again, but IIRC, the underhanded part was that Ryer agreed to the cease fire with the intent of drawing the ship out where it could be destroyed and to buy his snipers time to line up a shot on the mobile armor. It's one thing to gun down a retreating rather than surrendering enemy, it's quite another to gun them down after explicitly accepting the terms of a ceasefire just to draw them into your gunsights.
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Though considering how the Feds had air superiority and a lot of MS I think that he still probably could have taken down the Zanzibar without needing to be such a asshole
 
Balmung1 said:
Though considering how the Feds had air superiority and a lot of MS I think that he still probably could have taken down the Zanzibar without needing to be such a asshole
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I'm talking about the war-time ethics of it though. Ryer had been trying for days at this point. The problem was that the Kergergen was sheltered deep inside of Zeon's mountain fortress until launching. No number of mobile suits or planes performing carpet bombings was going to get at it.

The Kergeren was NOT a hospital ship. But I believe Ryer did say he would allow the ship to depart the combat area when Aina stalemated him with the mobile armor. Agreeing to a cease fire so that a ship, even a warship, full of wounded can depart, and then using that as an opportunity to lour the ship out for destruction is absolutely perfidy as the ability to strike the Kergeren was directly contingent on not honoring the terms of the ceasefire.

Ryer didn't have to agree to the terms. But then he'd have to dig the Zeon out of what was left of their fortress. And Ryer made it very clear he didn't want to do that. Even going so far as to tell Colonel Kojima that he wanted to wrap this up quickly so he could impress General Revel.

Edit - Checking the wiki, Ginias betrayed the cease fire first. But I'm pretty sure Ryer stated he was going to do so as well so there's a fair deal of nuance going on here.

Going back to Requiem for Vengeance, though, even a vocal Zeon patriot hating on the Federation was willing to acknowledge that from the EFF's perspective Zeon were invaders that they would do anything to repel and destroy. So I don't think the HLV launch sequence was intended to seem like something the Federation wasn't obliged to try and stop. If the Zeon Soldiers truly wanted to avoid a loss of life . . . they could have just surrendered.

Getting back to space was simply the goal of our perspective characters.
 
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Risking a double post -

Additional thought because now I'm binging through the Origin series while puttering around the house -

On the topic of Zeon Deikun - I think it's the consensus of most people here that he was dangerously naive at best - a proto fascist at worst - But I do rather like his brief depiction in the Origin anime where he comes off as borderline deranged in his political rantings, and then immediately calms the hell down when he holds his daughter.

Combined with the depiction of the various 'disciples' of his philosophy as vicious, self serving, or self made miserable people who would have only reinforced his darkest thoughts, it really sells how an ideology becomes truly dangerous when it becomes divorced from basic humanity and empathy for others.
 
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Triggerhappy said:
I meant more the people he dealt with on a personal basis before keeling over dead. Not that I think that excuses anything. Just found it interesting.
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The people who he dealt with on a personal basis before dying were not committed to his ideology lol

Amidatelion said:
I feel like that's a bit of a stretch... the AEUG didn't really seem that committed to Contolism or anything.
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The AEUG is a contolist organisation. When Amuro and Char meet they directly talk about how their goal is to get people to move into space, and that idea is a core part of Char's speech at Dakar.
 
The AEUG is Contolist and the eventually split that leads to most of them rejoining the Federation and Char doing is own thing is the split between gradualist Contolists and accelerationist Contolists. Fundamentally anyway.

Triggerhappy said:
I meant more the people he dealt with on a personal basis before keeling over dead. Not that I think that excuses anything. Just found it interesting.
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People Zeon Deikun knew personally who were even kind of normal:

1. His daughter Artesia

That's it.
 
Triggerhappy said:
Risking a double post -

Additional thought because now I'm binging through the Origin series while puttering around the house -

On the topic of Zeon Deikun - I think it's the consensus of most people here that he was dangerously naive at best - a proto fascist at worst - But I do rather like his brief depiction in the Origin anime where he comes off as borderline deranged in his political rantings, and then immediately calms the hell down when he holds his daughter.

Combined with the depiction of the various 'disciples' of his philosophy as vicious, self serving, or self made miserable people who would have only reinforced his darkest thoughts, it really sells how an ideology becomes truly dangerous when it becomes divorced from basic humanity and empathy for others.
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It's been a while since I watched Origin but I remember it reminding me of my paternal grandmother in late stage dementia. Violently lashing out at most times but every now and then something would trigger a return to her normal self, like holding a great-grandchild or talking about baking.
 
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As much as I like The Origin, Yaz's interpretation of Deikun is really his own and doesn't necessarily hold true across the whole series. It's worth remembering that people believed in Char and wanted him them because he was Deikun's son. They saw him as the rightful heir to Deikun's philosophy, and that philosophy which was essentially a mainstream political position, which is especially true by the time of Zeta. Not surprising given that ereism is to some extent the underlying philosophy of the Earth Federation (somewhere between 'extreme corruption' and 'taxation without representation' lol).
 
Let's keep in mind that the radical thing about Deikun's philosophy wasn't that he believed that living in space would cause people to gain new powers as an adaptation to the environment--that's just literally true in Gundam lol--it's that he believed that people in space should govern themselves rather than being beholden to the central government :V
 
22 episodes into 00. Simulposting from SB:
I knew it. I knew the character bloat would terminate like this. 00 ended up suffering the same fate as G-Witch, where the production team were trying to make a 50 episode show and instead got cancelled halfway through. Though in this case I can only assume it's due to the same reasons X got cut short rather than G-Witch's reasons of promoting homosexuality. Thus the show has been making move after move to speed itself to a hasty end, and while it's not AS bad as G-Witch, it's still very transparent. Three evil Gundam pilots out of nowhere to quickly alienate Celestial Being from everybody and unite them under the UN. Some randy gets introduced and then killed off just as fast as the handwave for why everyone now has Gundam-tier mechs. Saji's sister and girlfriend are quickly dropped, and H/Allelujah is shoved off to the background. Alejandro and Ribbons stand in a room for 3 episodes just to shoot a coffin. The Trinitys have two inconclusive fights with China in a row before Ali shows up, suddenly kills Michael, and then jacks his Gundam to kill Johann because I guess Alejandro and Ribbons did that for him. Lockon's grudge against Setsuna is created and resolved in the same episode. Tieria angsts over losing his connection to the Veda system when we've hardly established his dependency on it aside from him being prissy about keeping secrets. Setsuna has to be motivated by visions of Marina because they've hardly interacted and she's nowhere near involved in these proceedings. And then Aeolia being killed somehow unlocks a super mode for the Exia?! Also, where is the Veda CPU supposed to be? Jupiter?
I will give the show some props for the scene where Patrick manages to wreck the Dynames and stab Lockon's eye out, though. I wonder how that was initially planned to go before the rush began, especially since Patrick wasn't even supposed to be a character who existed past the first episode.
 
Greener223224 said:
I've heard the staff gave interviews that said 00 Season 2 was a post-script renewal.
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Who told you that? I've never heard of anything along those lines, and the second half aired in October of the same year the first half ended, with a trailer on the first half's last DVD volume. That would be some turnaround on the production lol
 
Meanwhile me for the entire second half of 00 Season 1:

"Finally, something is actually happening"

Anyway no, while I think there was some retooling and executive meddling of Season 2 after Season 1 did really good numbers, the main reason for the split production was logistical. Its just really hard to make a continuous 50 episode show with modern animation pipelines and changes in culture (and payscales). Usually shows that manage it are from studios with an even higher headcount than Sunrise and with much less technically detailed animation.

That said, you could call 00S1 a complete show if the second season had never been greenlit, it'd just be a downer ending with a lot of unanswered questions.
 
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Greener223224 said:
Wait, so now the plan was to air Code Geass season 2 in between two seasons of 00? What?! What is going on with this show and why can't it just be good without any flaws?!?!
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Sunrise are a company that handle multiple projects with multiple studios, why does it matter if Code Geass aired a season between both halves of 00? By that logic, you're saying that Gintama shouldn't have an anime adaptation.
 
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