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Lieutenant General Gundam

Night said:
Well, except for the cannon not working underwater. That's a little weird. I mean, what is Guncannon without its cow pose!?
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Do you think the guns/rockets/tops/whatever won't work underwater? Do you think it's a space-use Guncannon painted aqua, and not some special underwtaer use suit?
 
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Yeah, obviously. The Aqua suit vs the Dom-gguy makes 'fighting on/under the water' pretty clear. I wanted to find out why it seems he believes something outlandish.

The art from the novel makes it look like it uses a rocket pod of some sort, but it's surprising to me that this is even a question. Next, people might say it's like Thunderbolt doesn't fit into the classic continuity at all! :V
 
...Why wouldn't an amphibious Guncannon be capable of switching between shells and torpedoes?
 
Why indeed. 'Guncannon for underwater' seems like a pretty simple idea to take on board, but some people clearly feel there are obstacles. The earliest Guncannon appearance has them using a range of weapons, and in ep5 it looked like it didn't have its equipment on, so it doesn't seem like there's anything to worry about.

Guncannon Aqua even has little dive planes on its thighs instead of verniers. :V
 
Alastor Mobius Toth said:
I guess it's now the time for me to switch the flag to Camp Rustal :V
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To quote someone from another forum

You know, it's funny, but one of the things that's coming to mind with the ending episodes of Iron Blooded Orphans is that Rustal would have made a much more peaceful Universal Century if he ran the Titans.

I mean, he's as thoroughgoing a bastard as anyone who ever wore a Federation uniform, but he wants stability, and he's not a coward, and between the two you've got most of the Federation's top brass looking like worse choices.

Look at thirty bunch. AEUG formed because the Titans killed ten million people to stop a more or less peaceful protest. Rustal, he's the Earth Sphere false flag champion (PD division), and knows the meaning of "appropriate force". Innocent people would die horribly, but they'd die looking less innocent, and the colony would be left productive. Or look at how Bright Noa got treated. One of the best commanding officers of the One Year War, and he's shoved into a corner and abused until he defects. Stupid, stupid move. Rustal, meanwhile, does his best to juggle even difficult assets because you need skilled people in the right places (and occasionally stupid people in the wrong ones) to properly keep that boot on the human face forever.

It's a depressing thought, really. The Universal Century got so shitty that you can grab one of the main villains from Post Disaster (War Crimes: The Animated Series) and trust him to make less of a hash of things.
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Sublink said:
Do you think the guns/rockets/tops/whatever won't work underwater? Do you think it's a space-use Guncannon painted aqua, and not some special underwtaer use suit?
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Because they've previously made a big deal of how the Zaku/Aqua GM/other MMS had to be rearmed for underwater use as their standard weapons were largely ineffective? Cannons out, torpedo rifles or harpoons and such in. MSV was pretty solid on it. They've since turned up in animated works, making them "real" for this purpose.

Salty said:
...Why wouldn't an amphibious Guncannon be capable of switching between shells and torpedoes?
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Maybe at base, yeah. Or carrying a second rifle. Otherwise those are pretty different demands on the weapon and switching between them in mid-fight would be flying in the face of what's supposedly possible. I mean, yes, a gun will work underwater, but it'll work really badly because water is incompressible compared to air, and underwater rockets won't fly true in air.
 
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Alastor Mobius Toth said:
I guess it's now the time for me to switch the flag to Camp Rustal :V
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Yes, come to the dark side.

This show is such a mess, as typified by how McGillis has been handled for the last 48 episodes. I remember saying way back in the first season that 'I don't know who the last boss is supposed to be' and it took a very long time for it to be clear that it's Rustal - a character who didn't even exist in the first season. That said, his ascension to main villain is one of those things I think the show has handled pretty well. He's an interesting character, he hasn't enough screen time to get ruined by the show's bizarre writing and his becoming the main villain feels more or less convincing as the guy deciding that play time is over and it's time for an adult to intervene.

I won't say the show is salvaging itself. While these last few episodes have been better than a lot of the show, it still finds time to dally on the shit that I hate. Ride's reaction to that kissing scene was appropriate. However one thing it has gotten the hang of is killing people. I still don't totally know how I feel about the decision to kill Lafter, but from Shino onwards I feel like they've ... executed the deaths better. Some of it has actually been quite surprising. Credit where credit is due.

The finale is next week and there will be a lot to unpack, and it would take a miracle for it to be a satisfying conclusion, or one that has me coming away from G-Tekketsu thinking the whole thing was worthwhile. But one way or the other, it ends next week.
 
Alastor Mobius Toth said:
Well, that was bullshit.

So you're telling me that the character that was built up to be this master chessmaster cool customer and spent entire season carefully building himself up to the top just decides to charge to main fleet and be like EVERYONE WATCH HOW MANY DOODS I KILL, THIS MAKES ME STRONKEST AHAHAHAHAHA?

I guess the moral of the story here is "corrupted old men and status quo will rule forever".

Saltiness aside though, that was a great fight, for once. You really couldn't tell who would win until the end, and watching Bael just plow through Arianhood like chaff was pure gold.

His death scene was tragic, in sense you could really tell the emotion. McGillis really wanted to be friends with Carta and Gaelio, but his own hatred of Gjallarhorn's order and his past meant he ultimately could not let go of his revenge, and thus willingly did not connect with either of them. Seeing Gaelio cry at that was powerful. It was a great scene; it's just a shame show had to drive off the cliff to make it happen.

I honestly didn't care about bunch of Tekkadan people getting axed this episode, so I just skipped their segments.

Sweet dreams, our chunni prince. You were the best.

I guess it's now the time for me to switch the flag to Camp Rustal :V
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I wouldn't switch the flags already. Twenty bucks Gaelio's going to walk up to the bridge and double tap Rustal, saying something like "This is for my only friend." And then people will flock to Gaelio anyway because Gaelio is the dude who beat Gundam Bael, hence fulfilling McGillis' wishes in a roundabout way. And after his final scene with McGillis, Gaelio's probably stable and good enough to make Gjallarhorn better in some ways.

Also I'm pretty sure McGillis was... 'okay'ish up till now and just went off the deep end once he realized that he's well and truly fucked (what with having lost all his fleet and having Tekkadan ditch him.) Explains the "insane" faces he made here that he didn't before. Somewhat. It was badly conveyed. The ending of the fight was boring too. Draw, meh. I wanted to see if McGillis' Bael would manage to overpower the Kimaris or would the Alaya-Vijyaein let Gaelio 'eek out a win against seeming all odds.

That said, it did lead up to a very nice scene, so I'm not complaining. The moment the elevator door opened and the camera showed Gaelio and McGillis my mind flashed back to Lelouch and Suzaku at the end of Code Geass S1. Only, y'know, Gaelio's helmet is a lot tougher than Zero's mask.

On the side of Tekkadan, it feels their finale is being dragged out. I did like some specific parts of it, such as Mika's posture during the speech, mimicking Orga's (whereas during other speeches Mika is just slouched off to the side). I don't think Mika is capable of having character development at this point, but there is a visible difference between Mika this episode and Mika last episode. This isn't a Mika whose goal is to do what Orga tells him to do, because Orga's gone. This is a Mika who's resolved himself and just plans to keep walking until he drops dead, and he knows he'll die very soon.

Hush's death was a little surprising and just kinda summed up his character arc. Like, this is a guy who hasn't gotten any character development whatsoever in the last fifteen episodes, rekt by a grunt. Well, he's spent every fight holding off one or two dudes and then being forced back. In a way, the only reason Hush existed was as a contrast to Tekkadan's pilots with their AVs or Gundams, and later to carry Mika around. He was just a mediocre pilot trying to keep up with those and in the end dying simply because of that. A possibly interesting character arc just left dry and then now cut. Eh, to be expected.

At least they didn't have to raise five billion death flags beforehand for Hush. Is a plus.
 
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While there are many sins in this show, I don't actually consider Mika's lack of character development one of them. A lack of character development isn't necessarily bad in itself. Like what would he have developed into, anyway? Some straight hero type? I think the lack of exploration of Mika's character is a real fault of the show, and I think his attractiveness to Kudelia and Atra is just strange, but honestly some of the better parts of the show come from it engaging with Mika's weird attitude.
 
Ford Prefect said:
While there are many sins in this show, I don't actually consider Mika's lack of character development one of them. A lack of character development isn't necessarily bad in itself. Like what would he have developed into, anyway? Some straight hero type? I think the lack of exploration of Mika's character is a real fault of the show, and I think his attractiveness to Kudelia and Atra is just strange, but honestly some of the better parts of the show come from it engaging with Mika's weird attitude.
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I actually quite like Mika's character and some of the nuances of it. It's just his relationship with other characters who aren't Orga that I found lacking in development.

(my line about Mika's development was actually in response to someone else who said "Orga dies but Mika's just the same.")
 
Alastor Mobius Toth said:
I guess it's now the time for me to switch the flag to Camp Rustal :V
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Well, I'm not. I'm sorry, but I'm not siding with the guy who sets up False Flag Operations and lets his subordinate use outlawed weapon systems on civilians.

If anything, I'm still Camp McGillis. Even after everything, I do feel sorry for the man. Yes, he attempted to kill his best friend, but now that we've heard his last words, it was definitely a Necessary Evil in his own mind. Yes, he didn't approach the reforming of Gjallarhorn the correct way, but he had a point on how hypocritical Rustal's faction and how the Seven Stars ultimately abused their power.

And, yes, I hope Gaelio kills Rustal. After what's just happened, I think Gaelio deserves a little redemption.
 
Gaelio has done almost nothing in this series except follow the law and sincerely fight for what he believes to be right. I don't think the guy has done anything shadier than hide his identity.

Rustal also didn't allow to Iok to use Dainsleif - that was entirely on Iok's initiative. Rustal covered for the guy after the fact and clear the matter up with McMurdo, which included removing the remaining turbines from Gjallarhorn's most wanted list.

Rustal is not a pure guy or anything, and says as much in the most recent episode when Julietta talks about how she was lucky to have adults around her that she could trust. He has done some shady stuff. But like between him and McGillis 'yep gonna marry a kid and take over the entire universe' Fareed, I'm not going to pick the guy who wants to install himself as emperor of space.

And beyond being somewhat shady in his methods of preserving order, there's the fact that Rustal preserves the current order, which includes the structural inequality the series is themed around. He's very much a villain and we shouldn't forget that. But he's such a good villain and his motivation is reasoned out and believable so, you know. :V
 
Ford Prefect said:
Gaelio has done almost nothing in this series except follow the law and sincerely fight for what he believes to be right. I don't think the guy has done anything shadier than hide his identity.

Rustal also didn't allow to Iok to use Dainsleif - that was entirely on Iok's initiative. Rustal covered for the guy after the fact and clear the matter up with McMurdo, which included removing the remaining turbines from Gjallarhorn's most wanted list.

Rustal is not a pure guy or anything, and says as much in the most recent episode when Julietta talks about how she was lucky to have adults around her that she could trust. He has done some shady stuff. But like between him and McGillis 'yep gonna marry a kid and take over the entire universe' Fareed, I'm not going to pick the guy who wants to install himself as emperor of space.

And beyond being somewhat shady in his methods of preserving order, there's the fact that Rustal preserves the current order, which includes the structural inequality the series is themed around. He's very much a villain and we shouldn't forget that. But he's such a good villain and his motivation is reasoned out and believable so, you know. :V
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Wait, I'm fairly sure McGillis never wanted to become God-Emperor Of Mankind and govern everyone and everything.
Is he obsessed with strength? Sure. Does Gaelio imply that he only cares about power and want to govern everything? Yes.
But we are talking about the same person that thought McGillis didn't give a shit about him until he killed him.
The show give some mixed signals on this.

And talking about Gaelio"follow the law" and "sincerely fight for what he believes to be right", under that there is "try to kill children that are simply protecting an ambassador" and "Take care(not the good kind) of a girl that want to help Mars simply by diplomatic means" and "Stand and watch while colonials are butchered because you can't be bothered to move your royal ass for everyone that isn't Carta or Ein".
Gaelio is soldier of Gjallahorn, this doesn't excuse him by things he did by "following Gjallarhorn orders".
 
Well, if we're going there, then I present these well-crafted statements on the Gouf.


 
Given that Super Robot Wars did the impossible and made Gundam SEED Destiny actually watchable...
 
Lord Marshal said:
Wait, I'm fairly sure McGillis never wanted to become God-Emperor Of Mankind and govern everyone and everything.
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His explicit plan, as in he literally said it, was to take over and rule Gjallarhorn in place of the Seven Stars. He wanted to be its sole leader who could impose his will on it absolutely. He promised to give all of Mars to Orga, a proposal that no one considered to be impossible or outrageous to grant.

Gjallarhorn is the de facto ruler of the entire Solar System. Even in the outer system they have considerable power over Teiwaz. Ruling Gjallarhorn - wanting to control it alone - means ruling everything.

That's what McGillis wants to do. That's what he tells people he's going to do. That's what he tries to do in the show.
 
Ford Prefect said:
His explicit plan, as in he literally said it, was to take over and rule Gjallarhorn in place of the Seven Stars. He wanted to be its sole leader who could impose his will on it absolutely. He promised to give all of Mars to Orga, a proposal that no one considered to be impossible or outrageous to grant.

Gjallarhorn is the de facto ruler of the entire Solar System. Even in the outer system they have considerable power over Teiwaz. Ruling Gjallarhorn - wanting to control it alone - means ruling everything.

That's what McGillis wants to do. That's what he tells people he's going to do. That's what he tries to do in the show.
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To add to the above, he even dressed for the job he wants to have. Why else would he make a big show of piloting Bael?

It's to add to his legitimacy as King Big Swinging Dick.
 
WTF....to hell with this. I should have known better to expect anything good out of Okada. Except Anohana. That's a big exception. She only did the script there so i guess that's different.
 
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MSG:IBO is finally over. And you know what? I liked it, it was a nice ending to the show IMO.

I liked how it showed that changing things for the better is something that requires time, not simply something you can rush.
I love how ironic it is that McGillis' actions ultimately lead to Rustal getting ALL the power and changed things for the better. RUSTAL BANZAI!

GaelioXJulietaOTP! So much tsun! Older Julieta looks great.

Oh, and the salt over this episode is amazing, I love it. Just what I needed for my liquorice (I'm scandinavian, so I love salty liquorice, can't get enough of it).
 
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