Yeah, but given that they seem to be good friends with Gaia, would she even mind?

Also that there's a difference between "can do" and "should/does do".

Just like how Gaia can create WEAPONs here, but doesn't. Still appears on her sheet anyways.
..yes, I know exactly why you got that mention in the Credits...

Anyway, Eva's revival-component was stripped away during her ascension, just like the twins' exponential growth and Rico's Supernova. You may call it weird, but this is what happened. Some of it went into being divine in the first place, some helped form Intertwined Duality.

Besides, Luna is kind of in the sky far above; she can bring her avatar down to Earth, but she would need to physically touch something for a revival after all. Which means that even if she still had the Ability, one would have to carry someone's remains to the moon in order to get them revived.
 
I'll try to explain my take.

I think that, while the story overall makes sense and is structurally sound, it suffers from the lack of conflict comparable to what may have been expected given the setting. We were presented with a pretty hopeless self-perpetuating situation that was threatening to spiral out of control, with no solution in sight (which itself has become the premise for the formation of the Yggdrasil faction).

However, in-quest, the bulk of UES force was reduced to a handful of middling magical girls, and the might of the Chinese Block was reduced to a single White Glory who wanted out and planned her own escape. Oh, and a Hunter who got solo-ed by Autumn. The diplomatic mission in Africa was a curiosity, and though the boss encounter was pretty much the best in the quest, it was also tangential to the plotline.

After we were done with the missions that didn't even require leveraging the full resourses of Kibo, they have just walked into Berlin. The last salvo of the soldiers that no one bothered to do math for was a good representation of the reversal of fortunes we've seen since the beginning.

It makes you think - if the peace was always that easy, what did tens or even hundreds of thousands of people have died for since after the war? Of course, there likely was more to it than was shown... but that is the problem - the seemingly unsolvable conflict got solved off-screen. That's where the disbelief comes from - 'that's it? that's all it took?'

I realise that the very theme of 'Human Nature' was that there is no Big Bad to punch in the face, and that developing the understanding and trust is perhaps the most difficult battle of all (which I assume was at least in part the point of social interactions), but that aspect was not all that prominent either. We've built up a good amount of understanding... between fellow magical girls who were Kibo's allies in the first place, while the bulk of the conflict lay between some rather different groups.

Now, Yggdrasil, Grey Phantasm and the UD/UL were good antagonist material - definitely harder nuts to crack than what we've seen from UES/China, and with potential to provide the complications necessary to raise the narrative stakes... but they were either disposed of, or were placed out of focus since this was not their story. It's probably the one development I was most dissatisfied with during the quest. Besides them, no one got even close to personify the advertised difficulty of achieving the end goals.

Which is a bit different from the difficulty of the individual fights, which were apparently hard enough to even kill us once.

Mind you, if I am focusing on certain aspects of the story, it doesn't mean that I do not see other ones.
That is fair, though I could not really have done much differently. Player voting behaviour pushed the characters in a direction where Yggdrasil was no longer a possible opponent, the aliens were messed up by my redesign and thus unusable, and letting Grey Phantasm continue to scheme would have directly contradicted the mindset's of Bianca and Gaia, who both worked to get humanity stable again.

Plus, it is one of the core themes that not everything is your own story; the twins existed next to the status quo and were never meant to solve it by themselves. They did participate in solving the problem, but that is all.

Now I agree that I could have put a little more time into showing those actually working on the matter and what they do, but that would have gone around the aforementioned theme. It was a simple fact that the world did not go along with the protag-mentality SV goes in with most of the time; you left the UES early because staying there would have killed you while China got its anti-MG efforts weakened over the years already.



Quite simply, the story was happening whether you were around for the ride or not; the twins are those who you experienced it as and it would have gone rather similarly with any other start, just observed from a different perspective.



Plus... uh... I was kind of stupid to even try being a Killer-QM like something called "Nightmare Difficulty" would require. Too nice, I am afraid.
 
So what happened to the Eternal War in the end?

The UL and UD are scared shitless because of Bianca. They pulled bag because they know going all out or involving Humanity will just destroy both groups. Therefore the most logical conclusion is a time of peace to rebuild your strength. If we consider the amount of damage and fear, this rebuilding will need an incredible amount of time.

That is how I understand the things presented to us.
EDIT: Naron Ninjad me and the outcome is certainly strange. "Evil" won ....... Balance you have work to do.

And I still think how funny a certain situation would be.
Bianca takes the twins (before they are goddesses) and visits the children of war (was that their name? i hope so) from the UD.
 
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Remind me again... what is the source of magic in this quest? As in, what determines the potential of an individual and whether or not they awaken.
 
It is in its final moments; a year or two more of desperate resistance before the Unified Light is crushed in its entirety, and the Unified Dark dissolves from having no common goal anymore.
Kinda non-intuitive.

I get Faerie Realms burnt to the ground, I get Elven Empire overrun, I even get non-demons going into Heaven and "resetting" all the angels. I even get without Children of Nightmare (don't exist) or Dark Star (killed off) there aren't any ideology-driven sub-factions left.

But why would Hell wind down/fall back?

I mean, in vanilla CWMGQ the neutrals (uninvolved) were technically the strongest local group when compared to Light and Dark. But would they even bother doing anything once UD wins and demons are no longer occupied being the most numerous UD faction?
 
Kinda non-intuitive.

I get Faerie Realms burnt to the ground, I get Elven Empire overrun, I even get non-demons going into Heaven and "resetting" all the angels. I even get without Children of Nightmare (don't exist) or Dark Star (killed off) there aren't any ideology-driven sub-factions left.

But why would Hell wind down/fall back?

I mean, in vanilla CWMGQ the neutrals (uninvolved) were technically the strongest local group when compared to Light and Dark. But would they even bother doing anything once UD wins and demons are no longer occupied being the most numerous UD faction?
Um... you do remember that Thirteenth Hell is not the only faction in the Unified Dark? What kept the faction together was the war, the threat of being annihilated alone. Once the fighting is over, the UD will splinter into the respective factions that each go do their own stuff.
 
Um... you do remember that Thirteenth Hell is not the only faction in the Unified Dark? What kept the faction together was the war, the threat of being annihilated alone. Once the fighting is over, the UD will splinter into the respective factions that each go do their own stuff.
I remember. But I had the impression it was also the most numerous one, one with the most powerful asset (their Lord of Darkness with inheritable mantle of power), and one most likely to start things (original invaders in vanilla Second Fall of Rome).

In other words, the one most likely to hold most worlds conquered in the aftermath at the very least.
 
I remember. But I had the impression it was also the most numerous one, one with the most powerful asset (their Lord of Darkness with inheritable mantle of power), and one most likely to start things (original invaders in vanilla Second Fall of Rome).

In other words, the one most likely to hold most worlds conquered in the aftermath at the very least.
One: the McGuffin for making the Ultimate Evil Last Boss does not exist here. I never liked it existing in the first place.
Two: Hell has the biggest numbers, yes. However, most of those are mooks
Three: if they try to suppress everyone else the moment the UD wins, it will still splinter and everyone fights against Hell.

You gotta admit, that's a pretty cool way to 'pray to god for help' :V
Agreed
 
I remember. But I had the impression it was also the most numerous one, one with the most powerful asset (their Lord of Darkness with inheritable mantle of power), and one most likely to start things (original invaders in vanilla Second Fall of Rome).

In other words, the one most likely to hold most worlds conquered in the aftermath at the very least.
ALL the Dark factions don't really have any incentives to stay united without an existential threat, and once the Unified Light falls apart, they'd attack each other with as much fervor as they did the Light. Potentially more, if they spent the war gathering intel and seeding agents in each other.

Both would rise up again in the distant future no doubt. Their core ecology points to:
1) Natural buildup of Demons at a high rate.
2) Demons commence infighting for dominance
3) Sometimes these demons find untapped/undefended mortal worlds to pillage, but their efforts actually cause the demon pop growth rate to drop, because the demon population is dependent upon these predations.
4) Repeat several cycles, Light forces buildup approach critical mass.
5) Unified Light reforms and attacks Dark forces
6) After a period of pushbacks across whichever mortal realms they're hurting, they're at the Dark homeworlds and the Unified Dark forms.

Basic thing is, the Dark really prospers because broken promises proliferate the most during when civilization reigns and theres a lot of people and nothing is important. The Light on the other hand gets new Angels when people are more desperate and faithful to what little they have left.
 
ALL the Dark factions don't really have any incentives to stay united without an existential threat, and once the Unified Light falls apart, they'd attack each other with as much fervor as they did the Light. Potentially more, if they spent the war gathering intel and seeding agents in each other.

Both would rise up again in the distant future no doubt. Their core ecology points to:
1) Natural buildup of Demons at a high rate.
2) Demons commence infighting for dominance
3) Sometimes these demons find untapped/undefended mortal worlds to pillage, but their efforts actually cause the demon pop growth rate to drop, because the demon population is dependent upon these predations.
4) Repeat several cycles, Light forces buildup approach critical mass.
5) Unified Light reforms and attacks Dark forces
6) After a period of pushbacks across whichever mortal realms they're hurting, they're at the Dark homeworlds and the Unified Dark forms.

Basic thing is, the Dark really prospers because broken promises proliferate the most during when civilization reigns and theres a lot of people and nothing is important. The Light on the other hand gets new Angels when people are more desperate and faithful to what little they have left.

At least in this quest Earth is absolutely safe. :V
 
A few questions for @Naron now that things are over.
  1. How did everyone get enough EXP during the timeskip for stuff like Celestial Ascendance and level 50 Prepare the Feast?
  2. Any reason why being sponsored by a Divine Being didn't make Ana or Julia go up a Growth Affinity or gain an affinity that matches one of the ones possessed by the DB sponsoring them?
  3. Care to reveal what the remaining items in Pris's shop would have done if purchased before Celestial Ascendance, as well as any new or upgraded abilities her weapons or spells could have gotten at higher levels (that you actually thought about)?
  4. Were there any shop items that have existed for a really long time that we just never happened to meet the conditions for revealing, and if so, what are they?
  5. Did Bianca ever get over her Guilt, at least partially?
  6. Did Celestial Ascendance change anything about False Unreal Balanced Existence?
  7. Does Balance ever come chat with Sol and Luna?
  8. Why don't Sol and Luna still have Balance as a regular, non-growth/size/whatever affinity?
  9. How would the story and gameplay have worked/changed if we purchased Celestial Ascendance before the end of the quest?
 
Plus, it is one of the core themes that not everything is your own story; the twins existed next to the status quo and were never meant to solve it by themselves. They did participate in solving the problem, but that is all.

The biggest thing about Libra's Lament is that it is the closing act of Bianca's story, the end of her journey, though not her life. (What's she going to find that'll kill her? Herself? Maybe. (The Twins dying would certainly have been a 'bad end' for her, however, which is why Balance intervened the way she did) )

This is simultaneously its greatest strength and its greatest weakness.

It put the setting into perspective, it showed just how bad everything had gotten, and showed just how much work would need to be done to 'fix' it. A seemingly insurmountable task, one that was being worked on from both 'sides' of the issue.

But it also meant that the players did very, very little that couldn't have been done by others, of which the greatest part was rescuing the alternative Eva and Rico from nonexistence, which... really didn't mean anything as far as the quest was concerned, since we were approaching the end anyway. It was a very cool event, however, probably the best in the quest. The second greatest was quite likely the continued survival and integration of a number of members of Yggdrasil, which would otherwise have probably been rather rocky.

Other char-gen options would have been closer to or farther from the 'main plot' of the story, with Nightmare Child being the closest, Heart of Light the farthest, and Clockwork Queen falling somewhere in the middle.

If the twins had been given a clear, major, and difficult multi-part problem to overcome that the twins story could have centered around? That would have made the quest 'perfect'. As it is, however, there was no such thing, no unifying factor to make the twin's story excellent. Even with the whole 'people will be people' theme going on you could have managed it.

'People will be people' and 'Not everything is your story' are incredibly hard themes to do in a quest, especially to make important to the quest itself through quest mechanics, though that is more relevant in heavily 'game'-like quests where the impact of the mechanics drive both the story and the attitudes of the playerbase. Players, both in video games, role-plays, and quests, are usually rewarded for butting in where they aren't wanted, after all, even if the reward is usually just more information or world-building.

You didn't need a 'villain' or a 'big bad' to make it work here, however, despite Abyss Knight appearing to hold onto that position she was a tragic figure more than anything. Perhaps at the climactic fight over the remains of a splintering Yggdrasil, after which the players put months of work into proving that "Yes, there is still hope left, let me show you, please give us the time!" Where some members have found their hope again while others despaired further, when Abyss Knight swings her sword against Pris for the first and last time in anger... The White Reaper performs an intercept, and the climactic fight devolves into panic and fear on all sides while. Perhaps she leaves Abyss Knight alive, who still feels a touch of something - is it remorse? Regret? A memory, of the sisters she, herself, failed to save, or who failed to save her? - and she takes a step back, lowering her blade; or perhaps she doesn't, and Abyss Knight dies to the White Reaper saying 'I'm Sorry'.

Too short a summary for what could have been the meat of the quest; eh.

You did do a good job with what you did, and you learned from your missteps, which is really all that matters - so long as you're willing to run another quest, at any rate (hopeful look).

Still, the theme you chose would have probably worked best in another medium. Marvel's Infinity War is a fantastic example - that movie was all about Thanos, and indeed served to display his 'final chapter' very well (no matter how batshit crazy he is, and how poor his imagination - infinite cosmic power, and his solution is to annihilate half of everybody at the snap of his fingers? ... moron) - so this would have been perfect as either a TV animated miniseries or an epic novel - perhaps even a series of children's stories, given the protagonists. Not so much a movie, I don't think; there just isn't enough time to show all that should be shown.
 
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he biggest thing about Libra's Lament is that it is the closing act of Bianca's story

That makes me wonder how it would be if that whole story around Bianca was seen/played by us in is entirety. The start of her becoming a Magical Girl, the meet up and training with the UD, including the deal with the UD, then the work of ending the war on Earth and reforming the government with all the problems and lastly this closing act from the point of her little sisters.

That way our sympathy towards Bianca would be most likely even bigger and even thinking of that possibility fills me with thoughts like: "that would be awesome", "The story in that way would be something I would even buy as an actual Novel." "the amount of work for that would be more than ridiculous and would maybe take many years".

In the end that would be beyond just great, but I seriously doubt that this will happen in any way. At least I know that Naron wont write this.

Edit: Kittens now I hate you. :V:turian: Because now I thought about the potential of that story and now it will linger in the back of my head and so on. It kills me .... or at least it drives me crazy. :lol
 
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A few questions for @Naron now that things are over.
  1. How did everyone get enough EXP during the timeskip for stuff like Celestial Ascendance and level 50 Prepare the Feast?
  2. Any reason why being sponsored by a Divine Being didn't make Ana or Julia go up a Growth Affinity or gain an affinity that matches one of the ones possessed by the DB sponsoring them?
  3. Care to reveal what the remaining items in Pris's shop would have done if purchased before Celestial Ascendance, as well as any new or upgraded abilities her weapons or spells could have gotten at higher levels (that you actually thought about)?
  4. Were there any shop items that have existed for a really long time that we just never happened to meet the conditions for revealing, and if so, what are they?
  5. Did Bianca ever get over her Guilt, at least partially?
  6. Did Celestial Ascendance change anything about False Unreal Balanced Existence?
  7. Does Balance ever come chat with Sol and Luna?
  8. Why don't Sol and Luna still have Balance as a regular, non-growth/size/whatever affinity?
  9. How would the story and gameplay have worked/changed if we purchased Celestial Ascendance before the end of the quest?
1. I am not saying
2. What data I have on divine sponsorship does not indicate going up in their growth Affinities is a standard procedure, neither is changing their Affinities. Sol and Luna are infant goddesses, so they still have to learn the more intricate stuff.
3.
Sun:
Overtake Greater
-Every time an opponent evades or negates one of your attacks, increase the number of actions required to repeat the feat by 1.
Speed Gap:
Inverted Light Speed (Active)
Level 1
-Every entity within 25m of you can not move any faster than your highest movement speed.

Moon:
Raging Shine
-Increase Base Damage by 5% for every 10,000 Health below Maximum.

Moon's Spells were complete as they were, as was her Scepter. Scorching Sunlight would have gotten nothing, either. Supernova would have exchanged its Apocalypse for Obliterate at level 40. Her Scepter would have turned its Modifier Save into Auto Max Charge

4. I had some lying around that I never included, but those were only dumb Early Installment things I threw out before they could make it into the Shop (thank goodness)

5. It will take much longer than a few years. Maybe she can be genuinely happy again at around the time the next century begins.

6. No.

7. No. It is busy doing stuff and the twins are fine by themselves, though Cosmos might be interested in a little chat in a few eons (provided she remembers the twins and gets [BALANCE] to handle communications for her lest she squashes you accidentally).

8. Their Balance-Affinity dissolved like much other things as their sponsorship ended. It is now represented by the duality of Sol and Luna, but no longer important enough to be its own Affinity for them.

9. You would have played what is left at that point as Sol and Luna. That would have been an interesting change in perspective, as well as a lot of work to do well.


You did do a good job with what you did, and you learned from your missteps, which is really all that matters - so long as you're willing to run another quest, at any rate (hopeful look).
That really depends on whether I find something else I really want to run a Quest about. Right now I have nothing. And, more importantly, right now it is time to get back to the fanfiction I paused when Libra wormed its way into my head. It has been lying for almost a year, time to get that back on track.

In the end that would be beyond just great, but I seriously doubt that this will happen in any way. At least I know that Naron wont write this.
I spent the last year on Libra alone. Bianca's story in itself would probably be at least that long again... and I really do not want to spell it all out. Some things are better left cryptic so the audience can form their own ideas.
 
I spent the last year on Libra alone. Bianca's story in itself would probably be at least that long again... and I really do not want to spell it all out. Some things are better left cryptic so the audience can form their own ideas.

But you need to admit that it most likely would be a really good story, at least from the point of basic concept. At least I know you wont write it and you dont make a Novel (several volumes) out of it. I would buy it and therefore my money is safe now. :V
 
But you need to admit that it most likely would be a really good story, at least from the point of basic concept. At least I know you wont write it and you dont make a Novel (several volumes) out of it. I would buy it and therefore my money is safe now. :V
It might, if one can pull it off properly. If it ends up bad or only average, it could not live up to the 'hype' it gets in Libra.

That aside, we both know you have no money to speak of :V
 
It might, if one can pull it off properly. If it ends up bad or only average, it could not live up to the 'hype' it gets in Libra.

That aside, we both know you have no money to speak of :V

Just 1-2 rounds of RL Payday and I will have the money. :V
But the first thing is true. (Ok I admit it both are true, hope you are happy now. :mob::turian:)

In the end whoever writes that will lose. But ..... BUT .. the potential. WRRRHAAAAA *rolling over the ground while screaming*
 
2. What data I have on divine sponsorship does not indicate going up in their growth Affinities is a standard procedure, neither is changing their Affinities. Sol and Luna are infant goddesses, so they still have to learn the more intricate stuff.
IIRC regarding CWMGQ, all the known examples of sponsored MGs went up a growth when they gained sponsorship, unless they were already Epic. Even Brilliant Key goes up a growth when her super mode that fakes a sponsorship is active.

And all known examples (the WEAPONs, the Shiva-Sil's Maidens, the Radiances, and Chonos's Dames) share at least one affinity with their sponsor. IIRC most of those were chosen in part because they already had that affinity though.

Not 100% sure, but I think that is supposed to be standard.
 
IIRC regarding CWMGQ, all the known examples of sponsored MGs went up a growth when they gained sponsorship, unless they were already Epic. Even Brilliant Key goes up a growth when her super mode that fakes a sponsorship is active.

And all known examples (the WEAPONs, the Shiva-Sil's Maidens, the Radiances, and Chonos's Dames) share at least one affinity with their sponsor. IIRC most of those were chosen in part because they already had that affinity though.

Not 100% sure, but I think that is supposed to be standard.
I would rather think that DBs choose girls with suitable Affinities if they have the choice. The Radiances had theirs changed, but the others have no indication of that being the case.

That aside, I somehow have the feeling that upgrading Growth Affinities is not a standard based on information that is mainlines-spoilers for now and I am not allowed to talk about.
 
I would rather think that DBs choose girls with suitable Affinities if they have the choice. The Radiances had theirs changed, but the others have no indication of that being the case.

That aside, I somehow have the feeling that upgrading Growth Affinities is not a standard based on information that is mainlines-spoilers for now and I am not allowed to talk about.
Weird.
My impression was that:

1) Divine Sponsorship results in a total rehaul of Magical Girl's powers, discard-and-draw style
2) Divine Sponsorship upgrades Magical Girl's Growth by 3 tiers exactly in CWMGQ.
 
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